#he mico and rom all have the same problem for me where I have SO much to say about them that I keep forgetting some details

[katyspersonal]

you‘ve probably discussed this, I might have missed it. what do you think laurence’s motivations/goals were for everything he did? would you say he’s morally grey? had good or bad intentions?

I would not be surprised if I already discussed it and forgot myself! I am talking about Bloodborne SO much that I end up not remembering what I've discussed already :') I do think that he is morally grey; his most prevalent intentions were good ones, but I think he had some "badness" about him, mostly in the form of wanting to become the new ruling power in Yharnam! Okay I'll go bit by bit.. or try to.

THE biggest clue I have towards his good intentions is the fact that the holy blood is... well, a thing that heals. Not only we can witness it in the game first by using blood vials, but people do address it, verbally! However, I think the evolution and protection bit is really important here, if not MORE important.

There is a large possibility that beasts started becoming a problem even without the scholars messing with the dungeons! Yharnam stands on the "tombs of gods" that are related to the civilizations that actually messed with the blood first, Suspicious Beggar being unlike any other beast but a Loran one could mean that he inherited beasthood rather than developed it... even the very first Caryll Rune was the howling of the beast, and it is paired with the rune that points out beasthood is inherent for humanity:

We are talking about the setting where magic and aliens are real and where there were "first people" (Pthumerians) who caused irrevercible damage on the mortals in general, so the concerns could be real! My personal headcanon is that concerns over beasthood started to come up because meanwhile Kos was washed on the shore, thus abandoning her own concealment of the Eldrich Horrors; she was like Rom, since Sea and Lake runes refer to the barrier both. 🤔

But, yes, notice that Clawmark refers to the inherent thirst for blood within human nature, whereas Simon sarcastically refers to Healing Church's ministration as "beast cleansing", and Amelia's prayer goes like this:

(Sorry for always ripping excerpts from retranslation document ( x ), I am just incapable of working without it after discovering plenty of mistranslations fsdjhfdhs)

We can get a picture that the point of blood ministration is basically, 'The beastly nature within humans craves blood so it is better to satisfy it with some, but if you are not careful about it, you will just keep wanting more and more blood uncontrollably and become a beast anyways'! That's why people should fear the blood... yet, at the same time, seek it. Just in moderation. I would not say that it is a bad plan, but believing that religious agenda and presenting what were the stakes would be enough to keep people's will power strong is... strangely optimistic? Again, Laurence was a smart person, but he had more faith in humanity than, say, Willem or Micolash.

And at the end, besides healing properties and protection from the curse of beasts (that, again, might be inflicted on humanity genetically in this setting all history concidered), there is evolution factor too! There is a very important bit about Sedative:

Byrgenwerth people started to investigate Eldrich Horrors as soon as they returned from Isz, and also after massacre of Fishing Hamlet! I already talked about how Frenzy is relevant to bloodlust, hunt and Oedon here ( x ) and here ( x ), so it is still tied to 'feed your inner beast some blood so it doesn't rip you from inside'! But also, what could be observed directly was, 'if you peer into cosmic horrors too much you go insane and fucking die'. And ALSO:

Willem, and Byrgenwerth in general, pursued the Insight / Eyes Inside and cosmos as the means to improve the humanity:

So, like... it became plain that whereas the researchers could go insane and die from witnessing too much, they could also... NOT do that, and simply study mysteries of the universe normally - all they needed to do is to sip some blood sometimes! I actually can envision Willem, as well as Choir and Mensis that continue his ideas (albeit twisted) to believe that the "weakest must go"! That if someone died during research - it is a tool for the scientists coming after them, and if someone could not handle it then maybe they were not worthy! Meanwhile, I think initially Laurence disagreed with that and thought it would be better to just sip some blood when it gets hard, and evolution without the blood would simple have too much of a body count, with the "survivors" having lost their humanity (figurally OR literally)!

+ This is also an important observation in my version of lore and timeline, in which Healing Church and Byrgenwerth were one at first and Willem was the 'pope', so they were doing both blood ministration and research for eyes (most notable in Adeline's arc), and later Laurence elbowed Willem away to have more control over his own thing 🤔 This is not the most popular theory but the one I am satisfied with the most, I explained it here: ( x )! (fun fact: creator of that one BB fan manga centered on Lady Maria had that interpretation too! xD I feel validated.)

So yeah, in the conclusion, Laurence had plenty of reasons to put his faith in the blood! Healing, protection and evolution. But whereas the next most influential person (Willem) insisted that it was the worst idea ever, other people who LIKED the blood (Cainhurst nobles) apparently were doing it "wrong". They reveled in blood thirst and curse, whether truthfully or that was the prejuduice. Knowing Soulsborne settings, it was both. There must be the reason Lady Maria distasted it, okay? Maybe Fauxsefka too, if you believe she was one of the OG ones and not taken from Cainhurst as a child. Laurence needed to assert the blood healing, but also to have it as the good thing! A thing that connects you with the gods, whereas protecting and advancing your humanity, not corrupting it!

So, he needed to replace the oligarchy (Cainhurst), but to also not let someone else rise instead! Though I still could write it down as good intentions too, albeit twisted - Laurence could not TRUST someone else to act for the betterment of humanity, as well as to have courage to do sacrifices and morally burdening decisions. He was somewhat arrogant but he had the reasons to be, as a genuinely smart person. In his eyes? Micolash and Rom maybe were "smarter", but at the same time so detached from humanity that he could tell in the end they'd forsaken it, by their own will or unintentionally. And wasn't he right? Well, wasn't he?? Micolash is "You are too stupid to make such decisions" (derogatory), but Laurence is "You are too stupid to make such decisions" (affectionate)! Caryll was his equal intellectually but Laurence could tell he lacked the 'courage' and risk-taking streak (by being unwilling to mess with the blood, first of all). Willem was certainly smart, but not only avoided the blood like Caryll, but Laurence could tell he was prone to "gatekeeping". In Laurence's eyes, the 'peasants' deserved a chance for evolution too (and this is some contrast with his teenage "Sorry hun, I don't speak poor uwu" years xD Character development!).

________________________

Anyways, thank you for this ask very much! I LOVE talking about Laurence, he raised in amongst my favourite characters since recent times.. and also discussing the depth and complexity of his character is just what I need x) Yeah, sadly enough, he was not much better in terms of great sacrifices for his goals and machiavelism than Willem or other scholars he looked down on. But, Laurence believed that when HE did that it was different, because at least his ways were 'productive' xd In his opinion, I mean.

The concept of Laurence who was just evil and selfish asshole that wanted power and religious-ish control over everything does nothing to me :pensive: But, I do think that whereas ensuring his power and theocratical control was a necessity, he could still enjoy what he got even a little! I don't see it as corruption arc from nice and good person to a deranged asshole, but rather from a person with clear ambitious goals and comprehension of what it will cost to... well, a person horrified of the cosmic insight and gods that once guided him and getting obsessed with blood in the exact same way he warned others not to.

[fantomette22]

Hey, I heard you did like the idea about Henriett and Yurie relation? Orphanage stuff aside, how do you feel about the idea that they were Damian's daughters? o: Like maybe he even had to leave them at some point because School of Mensis was too dark path to thread for them in his eyes and whatnot? ok ok ok in general, what are your thoughts about these girls?

Mouahahahahah i see i am converting people with my ideas?! 👀

Hm ok more seriously. I don’t think Alfred and Valtr have any family link or smt just because they’re blond (sorry Crow 💔)

(I mean they don’t really look alike no? But who knows…you could tell me that Damian and the girls might not be link too but it’s different!! They have the healing church and Byrgenwerth in common! Source : myself)

Ok so about the girls like you mentioned they looks really similars (face) + with the data we know Yurie/Julie is supposed to be blonde too. (posting your image btw) They looks really alike and we need more siblings lol.

Pretty sure Yurie grow up inside the healing church/orphanage she became a member from the choir and is one of the last one alive. Still I think she might have perhaps part way with the church to come back to the roots of byrgenwerth and found stuff there + secure Rom (&willem) souls in the lake.

For Henriett well I won’t be surprised if originally she was supposed to be a part of the church with the black garb and all a doctor or a religious but wasn’t as efficient as Yurie. The choir is the elite after all (and probably know many dark secrets…) But perhaps she discover things and decided to quit (like that ALL clerics beasts were clerics, maybe she killed one too) and decided to come back to the roots of the hunt as a hunter ! (Not from the church)

As for Damian well he’s blond too (kinda) and have the same lashes and eyes color.

For me I like to imagine Damian as being like the most normal dude ever. Where everything and everyone are quite unusual if not a bit crazy and he's just the normal guy x) I headcanon he had a normal family, ok parents, no tragic backstory, or really big problems in his life, average results at Byrgenwerth + is kinda strong too (great fighting ability).

Also of course the game is never gonna tell us but I won’t be surprise if a few characters you know had period in their life where they were happy, got married, had children (and not just Gascoigne lol) Some 10mins oneshots AUs & original characters exclude I headcanons only a few bloodborne characters having kids depending the interpretations too. Damian not the one I first thought off to XD

But yeah just to say he’s really like the typical dude in this who happen to be too close to the main protagonist XD (without being a rando who could died either or a figurant, it’s Damian come on!). Like you have the charismatic Laurence, Gehrman, Maria, Caryll, Rom, Ludwig, freaking Mico, Willem, Dores etc and Damian who's freaking "normal" in all this mess and wonder what in the great ones he is doing here XD (he looks so tired too ;-;)

So I guess if he ever had kids he had to probably leave them (at least at beginning he probably just leave them during day or night time at the church daycare XD) but perhaps had to put them somewhere safe after Mensis (and Mico) began their descent in hell and madness. And he realized that if he did something wrong or if the menses scholars thought he was devoted enough to the cause they could hurt or take away the one close to him!

Also while typing this i just had an enlightenment!!! Another idea! (Help)

OK HEAR ME OUT!!!

WHAT IF! What if, actually Amelia and Henriett are the ones who are siblings! (No link with Yurie but Damian being her dad still work!)

Amelia don’t have a face data sadly but she’s blond right? She was probably in the healing church since little too? (I hc that the precedent Vicar, the white church doctor in the nightmare in the 2nd cathedral praying could be her mother? + she kinda looks like henriett too 💀)

Plus we can fight Amelia with Henriett (summon) imagined THE DRAMA!!

So in the end idk i’m not settle but i don’t need to right now. I’m to focus on the old hunters era anyway xD and like you know I hc that almost 3 generations pass since the beginning of all this mess at Byrgenwerth. (So yeah clearly Amelia, Henriett, Yurie, Edgar Iosefka... were not born yet in my main version/fic verse at the time anyway).

[bellringermal]

In your headcanon what is it that Dores and the password guy found that drove them mad?

THEY FOUND THAT ASSHOLE NAMED LAURENCE THAT’S WHAT THEY FOUND

*inhales*

Let me explain.

Back when Laurence was still a student at Byrgenwerth, he, Micolash and Rom were classmates and research partners. Laurence was the one with great ideas, Rom the organized and well-prepared one who knew how to put those ideas into fruition and Micolash possessed a weird sense of intuition and the ability to think outside the box in order to solve problems that Rom’s logic couldn’t solve.

The perfect team.

Their research ran so smoothly and their progress was so quick compared to that of the other students that Willem began to fear that Laurence’s fame would surpass his (Laurence became quite well-known after his purified blood solution completely healed a terminally-ill little girl, aka Amelia) and his fears became real when Queen Annalise herself showed interest in Laurence’s research.

To preserve the independence of the college from the Queen’s grasp and to hinder Laurence’s progress (out of pure jealousy, take into account that in my story Laurence is Willem’s biological son even if Laurence doesn’t know), Willem forbade further experimentation on the Old Blood. The use of sedatives and regular Blood Vials was still allowed, but any experiment concerning Queen Yharnam’s “impure” blood was out of the question since it was what interested Annalise above all else.

Rom and Micolash were disappointed as much as Laurence, but they accepted Willem’s decision and decided to focus their efforts on a different subject as they began to study the connection between the Augurs and the Great Ones.

Laurence, on the other hand, carried on his research in secret. He explored the labyrinth alone, putting his own life at risk before he realized that he couldn’t get anywhere by himself and that thought drove him crazy. He was SO CLOSE!

One night, he woke up Micolash (knowing that Rom would’ve immediately report his plan to Willem) and begged him to help him one last time for what was supposed to be the last step of his research.

Useless to say that their last trip to the Pthumeru Ithyl dungeon went horribly wrong. When Rom found out that both Mico and Laurence were missing in the middle of the night, she immediately alerted Gehrman, Dores and Edmund. Ignoring Gehrman’s warnings to stay behind, Dores and Edmund rushed into the room where Queen Yharnam had been shackled and trapped by the scholars a few months before (she’s undead, so it’s not like she was going to die of starvation or anything. Also, the Byrgwnwerth scholars aren’t exactly known for being ‘kind’ to the subjects of their experiments) and managed to save both Micolash and Laurence from the Queen gone berserk but Edmund got bitten by her in the process.

Once the Hunters shackled Queen Yharnam again, it became obvious that the two students performed some fucked up experiment on her unborn child, but there was no time for moralism. The Queen’s poisonous blood severely affected Edmund in the upcoming weeks (he was completely delirious) and even once he calmed down and his health got better, it was clear that he wouldn’t be the same man again. His sanity declined as the years went by and it was quite a terrible thing to witness both for Dores and Gehrman.

[If you listen closely to what the Gatekeeper/Eddie says when you have enough Insight, it’s possible to hear him repeating something like “let’s get to the door / It bit me, it bit me!”. My headcanons are inspired by this.]

As for Dores’ madness, it wasn’t kickstarted by a specific event like Edmund’s was… it was the result of an entire life spent in contact with the Eldritch Truth and the horrors of the Hunt. Since his first apparition in my story, Dores is depicted as a quite sinister guy. He is a ritualist and the closest thing to a ‘pthumerian expert’ that Byrgenwerth has at its disposal and he acquired most of his knowledge first hand, practicing what’s left of Pthumerian blood magic. He was eccentric and a bit crazy since the beginning!

(I mean, he dresses like a Labyrinth Watcher and wears a mask made of actual Pthumerian skin XD that’s pretty fucked up. But hey… that’s Byrgenwerth for you.)