#honestly I think they also just didn't have an existing movie character trope to change her to that was very close to the original

[lil-oinks]

my issue with movie peach isn't that she's not feminine because obviously she is, and anyone sensible already knows "she's too feminist" or whatever is dumb. my issue is they made her into every generic cool serious surface-level "strong female character" action girl in a group of all men whose only character trait is "capable" that they've been writing over and over and over for the past ten years. I genuinely feel like they erased any personality she had past her appearance in favor of the single superficial female character type men tend to write when they want to be feminist and "modern." I'm not saying she shouldn't be capable and she shouldn't be cool or fight things because (I love paper mario) those things already are a part of her personality. this point is difficult to make with all of the "they're erasing feminine dainty proper women" takes because that's not what I'm taking about at all. I've seen people say if they wanted a character like this daisy was right there, but I wouldn't switch her character over to this trope either. daisy's LOUD and energetic and fun and the subdued woman whose role is being picking up the men's slack doesn't really fit her either (although I agree the two of them together would balance each other out (and it'd be nice if there were two women and they could interact)). it's exactly what I'd expect from a movie like this so I don't know why I complain, but I wish they would've done her differently. the character mario is about the whimsy but so is peach

[charmwasjess]

So, let's say George Lucas was more self aware producing/directing the prequels and hired you to reign him in/keep him on track. How would the prequels be different?

What a fucking FUN question. :D I've been chewing over this in my inbox for a couple days.

Honestly you couldn't pay me enough to write for Star Wars, and that's not just because I'd be fired on my second day for making it so gay. I think there absolutely are problems in the prequels, but I also think no matter what films they made, it was going to be a difficult tango of trying to keep an existing fanbase happy while attracting new ones, doing the old story homage but also not just retreading stale territory, and the fact that an entire generation came up with headcanons for what the Clone Wars or young Obi-Wan or Vader was like in that era, and no matter what you do, someone was going to be disappointed.

I also have a ton of sympathy for Star Wars writers in general - I see stories like Mike Chen who wrote the Brotherhood novel having to get the book together in three months over 11 drafts or the Rebels writers working unpaid nights and weekends to try to land the story they loved decently because they weren't given enough time or money. I don't know what it's like to write or create content for Lucasfilm, but I can't help but think of Warren Fu, who created the iconic General Grievous design for Lucas, later drawing himself as Sifo-Dyas being drained of blood to create Grievous. The metaphor he chose there is, um, interesting, to say the least, and I wonder how it reflects on his time at Lucasfilm. I see these anecdotes all the time of writers and creators working incredibly hard for little money or recognition and then their passion project gets changed or sidelined by the powers that be within the franchise.

ANYWAY THAT SAID HERE'S HOW I'D FIX THE PREQUELS- I think it's really a matter of redrafting what's there because so much of it is really good and has great potential. I just rewatched the Phantom Menace, so that's on my mind. Yeah, I remember being little enough that Jar Jar Binks was funny to me - I love Ahmed Best - but having just rewatched it, Jar Jar gets a ton of screentime and that could be better balanced. AND oofa-doofa, the racist accents/stereotypes. Cut cut cut. Rework.

Otherwise, I think there's a tendency - and some of it was the popular movie tropes at the time the films were going out - to rely on Idiot Plot. OOPS, Anakin didn't mean to go to the big space battle!!! He just won the day on accident!! To a lesser degree, many other characters make it through the movie by just sort of guessing and lucking their way into it as a narrative choice. Just going by the fact that the films need to be about the good guys losing because it's a prequel for a saga with no Jedi, I'd like a little bit more agency for them. More moments of saying "yes, I want to do this" and less "wow, what the hell is going on?!"

The other big change I'd make is give Obi-Wan a much larger role in the Phantom Menace, and Padme a bigger part in both AotC and especially RotS. (Actually, she really kicks ass in TPM. That moment where she shoots through the window and the duel of the fates music swells? Ascension guns!! I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it.) I think Anakin is the most sympathetic when he's seen through the eyes of characters who love him and vouch for him. And Obi-Wan is honestly barely in TPM - it's all Qui-Gon, who I love, but I could see the film being really successful through him as our perspective/focus character instead. The way that Luke Skywalker takes us with him on this adventure and shows us the story. Obi-Wan could do that very effectively. And as much as the prequels are about Anakin's fall, they're also ultimately a story of Obi-Wan's survival.

And I'd cut Count Dooku, for no reason other than I don't like how weird I got about that guy.

[santaclausdeadindian]

Sorry for doing it this way, I think OP deleted their post or blocked me like a mature, balanced person would, so I have to tag you in

@mr-laugh

Oh boy, lot to unpack here.

So you didn’t even know there were that many subgenres of fantasy, one of the most popular classifications of fiction on the planet... And you think you know enough to tell ANYBODY what classic fantasy is?

And where exactly I attempted to do that, huh?

If you don’t even know the most common subgenres of this vast pool of fiction, why are you jumping into this discussion? You just admitted you don’t know anything!

There is no discussion, there is a stupid ass post. Don't flatter yourself, you don't know jack shit.

Me not knowing what exactly are the precize subgenres of a genre of literature, which, btw, are completely arbitrary and for your information, sword&magic is a legitimate category, has absolutely nothing to do with what that post you were so keen on agreeing with above. It was you who said pretty much any classic fantasy is like that: some poorly written, self-indulgent and borderline racist.

Did ya read the link, buddy? Howard talked about knowing what burning black man smelled like. He was quite approving of these things! And the books are pretty racist, it’s not hard to see, unless you ain’t looking.

Yes, I started reading and by the end of the first paragraph I was convinced he was ahorribly racist man. And? Still doesn't change the fact, that for my 12 year old self, there was nothing racist about it. I definetly wasn't looking for it, that much you got right. If I'd read it again, I'm sure I'd catch on to it now, that I know what kind of asshole he was. So the implied racism would be there. You got a point for that.

Rugged individualism? It always amuses me how that argument always pops out of the mouths of guys who are aping what they’ve heard their buddies say. If ten thousand mouths shout “rugged individualism”, how individualistic are they?

Then you should amuse yourself by looking up why this thing crops up as of late. It's coming from certain, supremely racist yet unaware of it publications that claim ridiculous shit like "rugged individualism" is a hallmark of white supremacy, among other, equally laughable things, like punctuality. It's a joke.

Again, I will give Howard to you, if someone that racist writes a black man saving the hero of the story, I bet there was something else still there to make it wrong.

Conan’s not some avatar of rugged individualism.

Uhm, yeah, he pretty much all that.

He’s as unreal and unrealistic as the dragons are,

It's called fantasy for a reason, buddy.

but more dangerous because White Men model their ideas of reality on Big Man Heroes like him;

Glad you are totally not racist, yo!!! It's such a relief that White Men are the only ones with this terrible behavior of looking up to larger than life, mythic superpeople and nobody else. Imagine what it would be like, if we would have some asshole from say, hindu indian literature massacering demons called Rakshassas, by the tens of thousands, or some bullshit japanese warlord would snatch out arrows from the air, or a chienese bodyguard would mow down hundreds of barbaric huns without dropping a sweat, or some middle eastern hero would fight literal gods and their magical beasts in some quest for eternal life.

it's a poison that weakens us, distracting us from actually trying to solve the world’s issues, or banding together to deal with shit.

This is what you just said. It's up to the white man, to get their shit together, be not racist and solve the world's problems, because those poor other people's just can't do it. If we would just not be oh, so racist, then China would surely stop with the genocides they are doing now, or blowing more than half the greenhouse emissions into the athmosphere, the muslims would stop throwing their gays from rooftops or ramming trucks into crowds and would just start treating women as equals, India's massive rape problem would be gone, subsaharan African would be magically bereft of the host of atrocities committed there on a daily, yeah, you sure have that nonracism down, buddy!

A rugged individualist would be smart enough to realize that even the most individualistic person needs others; no man’s an island, and a loner is easier to kill.

Individualism doesn't mean at all what you think it means, it's a cluster of widely differeing philosophies that puts the individual ahead of the group or state, it's ranging from anarchism to liberalism and is also has nothing to do with my point.

Central Europe?  What, Germany?  Because let me tell you, historically they are SUPER concerned about race!

Germany traditionally considered western european, central europe would be the people stuck between them and the russians, to put it very loosely. We are equally nonplussed by the self-flagellating white guilt complex and the woe me victim complex of the west. We did none of the shit those meanie white people did to the nonwhites and suffered everyting any poc ever did and then some. We don't give a shit about your color, we care about what culture you are from and if you respect our values.

I’m an American from a former Confederate state; trust me, race is everything.  It always is.

No it really isn't. How old are you? Asking without condescension, genuinly curious, because if you are in your low twenties at most, it's understandable why you think like this.

See that hike? Do you know what happened at that time that made virtually all american media suddenly go all in with racism?

Occupy Wall Street, that's what. It's a brilliant way to sow victimhood and hate and desperation amongst the people who have one common enemy, the powers that be, the banking sector, the politicians, the megacorporations.

Can't really blame you if you are in your early 20's at most, you grew up with this bullshit hammered into you. If you are older, step out of your echochamber please!

If you actually believe, that mankind doesn't progress naturally towards a more accepting society purely on the merit of there being more good people than bad and sharing a similar living with all the hardships in life, seeing that our prejudices inherited by our parents are baseless, that's how we progress, not virtue signalling courses and regressive policies. I was raised as any other kid, I had a deep resentment towards the neighbouring nations, I said vile, racist shit against people who I actually share a lot of genes with, of which fact I was in deep denial about, and then as I gradually got exposed more and more actual people of these groups, I started to realize I was wrong and everybody should be judged by their individual merits. It works throughout the generations, my grandma was thought songs about Hitler and how all jews are evil in school, she legit thought all black people at least in Africa are cannibals and shit, my mother stillsays shit that would get her cancelled in the USA, and I will probably have a mixed race kid as we stand now.

This whole racism is an eternal problem is laughable and disingenuous and I am actually sorry for you that you feel like that.

Moving on. As for Dany, the “noble white girl sold to scary dark foreign man” is a very popular trope, especially in exploitation films, which Martin draws on much more heavily than most authors do.

No, he fucking doesn't. I already wrote a bunch of examples from the books you seeminly ignore willfully. First of all, she is sold to those olive skinned savages by a white man, who is a terrible, increadibly evil man. He want's to fuck the then 11-12 ish Dany so bad, she picks his slave most resembling her and rapes her repeatedly, "until the madness pass." He also maimes children and traines them as disposable slave spies by the hundreds. There is no boundaries colour here, GRRM prtrays all kinds of people as reprehensible, evil and disgusting. Just like you can find plenty of examples to the opposite.

What is he drawing from your exploitation movies exactly? He writes about the human anture, he writes about the human heart at war with itself, that's his central philosophy of writing.

ASOFAI is basically just a porn movie with complicated feudal politics obscuring it, which is probably why it worked so well as an HBO series (up until the last two seasons or so.)

There is no gratuitous sex scene in the books, the rapes are described as rapes, they are horrible, they are very shortly described and usually just alluded to.

The people commiting them are not put into generous lights and one of the single most harrowing stories hidden behind the grand happenings of the plot is a girl named Jeyne Poole, whose suffering although never shown, is very much pointed out, along with the hypocrisy of the people who only fight to try and save her, because they think her a different person.

Honestly, if you actually read the books and they came of to you as porn, you might want to do some soulsearching.Btw, the HBO series was a terrible adaptation, it immedietly started to go further and further from the books with every passing season and the showmakers made it very clear to everybody, that they didn't understand the very much pacifist and humanist themes of Martin. And neither did you.

We also get no indication Essos will eat it when Winter comes; hell, they seem to not know Winter exists, given the way people act, even though that is also unrealistic and weird.  Essos was just super badly designed, and Dany is a terribly boring character.

to be continued

[unexpectedreylo]

What’s With Star Wars Fandom Anyway?

Last week I posted this piece on the condescending attitudes of BNFs, bloggers, and professional fanboys toward Reylos and fans of romance in general.  

This got me thinking on the long-time sense of discomfort I have had with other Star Wars fans for many, many years.  Long before the prequels or Reylo or bizarre petitions against movies.  Don’t get me wrong.  I’ve also met a lot of terrific people, some of which have been friends for decades.  But the level of discourse, especially on social media, has reached a nadir.  It’s honestly the worst I’ve ever seen.

Some of it reflects where society is as a whole.  Social media was meant to connect people but it’s created tribes and turned friends and families into mortal enemies.  Total strangers feel comfortable being cruel to other strangers.  People seek validation and dopamine hits from “likes.”  Even I’m guilty of this!  

Some of it reflects what’s terrible about nerd/geek culture.  On the one hand, my entry into the world of fan fiction and zines in the ‘90s was a welcome change from the are-you-cool-enough world of indie/alternative that I was in beforehand.  On the other hand there was an element of “yes but are you as much of a fan as I am” that is too prevalent today.  As anyone who has read “Misery” knows, fan passion can easily be warped into something destructive, especially when things don’t go the way the fan wants.  I used to call fellow fans like that Annie Wilkeses and joke about hoping George Lucas’s car never crashes in front of their houses. (I guess I should say that now about Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, and J.J. Abrams.)  Nerds generally make perfect the enemy of very good, pretty good, or just good.  If it’s not a face melting experience it’s the worst thing ever.

Some of it though is because of what Star Wars has been specifically.  Star Wars has always had tremendous mainstream success, which means it’s always been open to all kinds of people, on a global level. Yet there’s always been a subset of moviegoers, people like you or me, who are very passionate about it.  This gives Star Wars an easy entry to a particular cult within a larger more casual fan base.  This cult has all of the problems of other cultish things along with a large variety of people with a large variety of views, beliefs, lifestyles, etc. who are involved in it.  

The other thing I’ve come to realize is that many Star Wars fans look to the saga as comfort food they want served their way, not as art.  The only logical conclusion I can come to after 41 years of loving Star Wars and 26 years of observing fandom is that what many fans want is safe, easy, predictable, and familiar, not what’s challenging.  There’s a reason why the second chapter in every trilogy so far ends up with the lowest box office of the three.  It’s always the chapter that says, “You think you know Star Wars?  You think you know what’s going to happen next?  Guess what?  You don’t.”  Nothing symbolized this better than the camera panning upward instead of down to an inverted Naboo royal starship at the beginning of AOTC, a ship that then descends into fog on Coruscant.  Even the hallowed TESB left people perplexed with its unexpected twists and its cliffhanger ending.  Today it’s regarded differently precisely because it took chances, yet so did AOTC and TLJ.  I’ll get to why TESB today doesn’t get the same backlash dumped on the latter two films in a minute.

I believe there is a reason why TFA is the way it is and why it seemed that Lucas’s ideas for the ST didn’t seem to manifest much until TLJ.  Abrams and company KNEW there was a backlash against TPM was because it didn’t feel familiar enough to Gen-X fans.  No, it’s not because of kid Anakin or even Jar Jar.  They were excuses, lightning rods for reasons people can’t or don’t want to articulate.  TFA had a huge advantage in that it had the OT3 back while TPM had an entirely new cast, Yoda and droids aside.  It carefully made sure its setting looked enough like the OT to be comforting to those fans of the old school.  Some of the new characters were easy to place in missing slots:  Rey was like young Luke, Kylo Ren was like Darth Vader, Snoke was like the Emperor, Man Kanata like Yoda, etc..  A lot of it was lighthearted and funny.  And it worked.  Not everyone was thrilled with it.  I had criticisms of  the film at the time.  Eventually a slow burn backlash developed, mostly accusing TFA of being unoriginal and making Rey a Mary Sue, but it wasn’t anything on the scale of hysterics that I saw with the prequels and with TLJ.

Why do many Star Wars fans demand “comfort food?”  It has to do with the first film and the way it presents a galaxy in black and white, where good and evil are identifiable and its sense of deep familiarity in spite of its setting due to its expert use of archetypes and tropes.  I’m not criticizing this at all.  It is at the heart of ANH’s brilliance and charm.  It was released at time when America really needed to believe in itself again after the chaotic ‘60s and early ‘70s.  To a generation of latch key kids and broken homes, it also provided comfort, clarity, certainty, and adults to look up to.  Don’t believe me?  Why the freakout then over Luke’s portrayal in TLJ?  A lot of people my age, myself included, put them up on a pedestal.  Naturally a film that provides those things will attract people who seek them out.  The Star Wars saga has moved away from those stark differences in the other films but there’s still a clear morality.  

As I had previously noted, TESB initially made some people scratch their heads.  But it became the cool kid at the table years later.  Why is that?  Sure some of it was Gen-Xers who had become accustomed to darker entertainment, antiheroes, irony, and cynicism having retro respect for a blockbuster movie that didn't have a happy ending.  But I think it’s also because of familiarity.  When you watch a movie 75 times it’s not quite so shocking anymore.  Instead it becomes that album where you know every song by heart, even every bridge and chord change.  It’s part of your DNA.  I think this may be a reason, though not the sole reason, why it seems the prequels are gaining more respect.  After 13-19 years, they’ve become familiar too.  And to many fans, familiar is better than scary and unknown, which is what watching any new Star Wars movie for the first time is like.  

This is why TLJ really threw them for a loop.  They thought TFA made it clear what was going to happen next:  Kylo was going to be even badder, Rey was going to train and find out she’s either a Skywalker or a Kenobi so that justifies her existence, Snoke was going to be revealed as someone really important, Rey was going to hook up with Finn or maybe we’ll get something even more “progressive” with a gay romance, and Luke was going to return as his lovable old self.  And none of that happened.  Instead of just saying, “Okay, I guess I was off then,” they revolt online as though Lucasfilm is going to listen to a social media mob.  They also attack other fans who aren’t on the hate bandwagon along with them.

The problem is there’s little anyone can do about it.  The good news is they make up a small portion of the Star Wars moviegoing public and Lucasfilm knows as much as they complain, they will still show up for their fix.