#i almost want to make a parallel gifset but the intersection of this two fandoms... does it exist?

[mikimeiko]

Physical | 2x07. Don't Try This at Home

[incarnateirony]

The Problem with DreamHunter...

Is that there is no problem with DreamHunter.

You're probably like "wait, what?" So let me clarify: This is absolutely not a Dreamhunter!Critical post. In fact, I have a lot of accolades for DreamHunter. I'll address a few complaints I've read from a surly, never-happy swath of stan twitter, but this post isn't actually about that - it's about a pervasive cultural issue involving coded phobia and how Bobo Fucking Berens showed his level of quantum literary and social brainfunction to do everything from canonize an LGBT ship to run a far deeper and more exposing social experiment on the fandom at large.

We've all seen the gif sets. I can't find the video in my vat of poorly maintained blog, but I'm sure someone else could, wherein Bobo on Twitch was talking about being ecstatic over us seeing what he wanted us to see. To the fandom that keeps their ears open, none of DreamHunter's premise is new to us. The only new thing was a certain confirmation, "First love strikes quick."

First, to the part that is NOT the point of the post, but I feel needs addressed before people start yelling at me:

Now, this has opened up a floodgate of hard-end-stan-twitter complaining like "Oh so they didn't just kill a WOC but a queer WOC and then after-texted it?" Well, no, fam. They were setting up a queer romance of the century with her dream half and potential return to the self while facing the darkest parts of challenging the self and deleting our weaknesses, and maybe even going so far as to make a statement of self imposed biases. Wayward just wasn't picked up so they've had to funnel and condense the concept in other ways. Dark Kaia wanting to target Claire after seeing what she meant to Kaia isn't an arbitrary and random sentiment. But arguing literary romantic value with stan twitter is like arguing algebra with an ill-behaved goose, so that's as far as I'm going to take that explanation beyond "y'all are often our biggest enemies on content."

Now then... to the actual point of the post:

I've mentioned it before, but it really deserves its own rebloggable master post not attached to some overlong thread, and able to be brought into fuller scope. The problem with DreamHunter is almost nonexistent. In fact, the simple fact is: with a line that simple, it was universally accepted as a truth, whether people are screaming about tropes they want to read in the worst light before the romantic element ever got a chance to get its feet under it. Nobody's out there saying it doesn't exist. Nobody's out there downtalking that line.

THAT is the problem with DreamHunter - that there is no problem with DreamHunter. And by that, I don't mean to say we should have a problem with DreamHunter. It's that DreamHunter reveals a hugely systemic coded bias in our culture.

And honestly, I think Berens did that on purpose.

There’s a certain level of coy battle in acceptance going on. First of all, people naturally seem to accept F/F before M/M due to a bunch of cultural reasons. Mostly because F/F has been convenient to publicly fetishize while M/M freaks out dudebros that are really uncertain about themselves, so for a longer time, GA has been exposed to and accepting F/F. And I think of anyone out there, My Big Gay Author King Berens is going to understand that.

WLW still has its own stigmas, I'm not saying it doesn't, but acting like resistance to it is on any cultural coding level parallel to the stigma against MLM is a weird display of intersectional privilege and lack of awareness.

Acting like it’s coincidence that they monkey-stomp packed as many identical lines and scene arrangements into all of one episode as possible, then dropped a bomb like that episode two, is silly. We know exactly what he’s after – hell, he said he was ecstatic we saw what he wanted us to see. So the real question is, why is it that “first love strikes quick” is taken without argument from the GA but a thousand up-nods for the M/M pairing with the same content – and TBH, far far far more that could never be packed into a single episode – has people take lines like “attached at the everything” and immediately have a portion of the audience start laughing, despite the surrounding substance around it?

Destiel fandom read into yet-again heaven and hell believing DeanCas are an item; antis decided it was an insult to “annoy” them. Even the angel in the past threatening to gouge Cas’ genitals over it. Because that’s what I do when I don’t believe it but am a religious zealot. Threaten to cut dicks off to annoy people. But somehow, it’s far easier to negotiate, to these people, that the male queer coded content is a punchline, rather than either a genuine or perceived truth. Antis choose to interpret MLM as a punchline. It’s that simple. No amount of surrounding content or story thematics can convince them otherwise. 

The same substance they monkey stomped, condensed, and largely stripped down for time limitations, into DreamHunter?

I’ll give a hint: it’s the same cultural stigma that – which late night show was it, where they started playing well-edited slash videos and the audience started laughing despite it being well timed and edited? It’s that. It’s the same thing that made Ateo unable to play queer roles in the industry as being “not believably gay” despite being a gay man himself, until the Hunter Husbands. It’s a horrific stigma that the audience has been coded to bite and gnash back against M/M content unfairly to the queer male audience and it’s gross, but it’s just there, sort of in the collective mind.

I absolutely don’t think Berens, of all fucking people, is unaware of this. And I see what he did as a really, really fucking coy set of actions beneath already masterful writing.

Berens knows exactly what he’s fucking doing and has basically coded a social experiment into the show that betrays people’s biases against M/M queer pairings while allowing the saturation (largely by fetishization) of F/F pairings to do the heavy lifting for him. Nobody out here yelling that Jody could be wrong about it or that “we didn’t see a kiss so it didn’t happen LOL they’re just in a sismance” – it is what it is. And here we are.

So on a social level I am fucking fascinated to see where he takes this next.

Berens has come out swinging for the queer male community whether anybody wants to accept it or not. Which is, modernly, by our demographics, at least an equal if not the greatest portion of our primary male demographic of viewers for the show. And I'm not just talking about the fandom census. I'm talking about Nielsen's demographics shift on gender since season 10, and general Kinsey-scale-esque testing of the true target demo at large in the US. Our ads count 18-49. CW targets 18-34.

Following the work of Berens within Supernatural will give you a very blatant papertrail. It started in deeply layered subtext; his first episode Carver directed Misha to play Cas as a Jilted Lover; after that, he took Robbie's work on Cain and manifest the Colette parallel coded into our story; he chose to take Dabb's Dean-speech from 12.1 and turn it into our coffee-Mixtape-Win spree that other authors shed from their pen in his wake, just like later in season 10 people continued his Colette grind. Berens has been an internal motion for the legitimization of truly structured and admittedly intentful elements of Destiel in the show. And people can scream that they don't like or see it all they want, but it's right there -- and with DreamHunter, it was What He Wanted Us To See.

It's grossly disingenuous activism to try to accuse SPN's first overtly queer author of queerbait while internally shifting the motions of our author room mechanics towards genuinely structured and intentful romance-skewed storytelling, whether it remains subtextual or not. Especially as that author continues to throw wrench upon wrench upon wrench into the no homo gears in ways the GA is perpetually exposed to and spun into having to think about. An eternal negotiation of poignantly delivered lines that catches even the most resistant ears and at least plants a seed in their mind about something else. A true normalization of it as a potential element to the story.

The same sort of normalization hyper-condensed into DreamHunter, but as per the above discussion, far more readily accepted. I have literally heard, from people who argued the "bromance, I'm not entirely convinced" on Destiel, that DreamHunter had been "obvious" to them and the "first love strikes quick" wasn't even necessary, because everybody knew. Cue me sending simple gifsets and script line side by sides and blowing their brains because suddenly their entire world scope just got bent sideways in -- why do I accept the one while I negotiate away the other?

Well, I covered why, above.

The problem with DreamHunter, I repeat, is that there is no problem with DreamHunter. People accept and see that it exists, without argument, even going so far as to label it "obvious" from a single episode, of a highly condensed version of only a fraction of the moments of another queer-coded duo in the show, but simply with culturally differing gender dynamics.

The concern troll of "bromance" or "why not let men be close" dies here. The idea of a bromance is letting two men have a friendship with the form of openness platonic female friends can have. That's fine, that's great. Dean-Benny would be a great example of this, and even then we once again had the offset of Dean-Cas to show different operations. I might even say Dean-Sam as an idea of that, but I don't think "bromance" is necessarily needed since brothers natively have a different sort of dynamic from growing up together. But once you are going out of your way to dismiss elements that we accept in hetero pairings with a laissez-faire “duh”, or even WLW scenarios as “it’s so obvious”, because it's MLM, we have left the area of "bromance" and "why not just let men be close without making it gay" and into “I am negotiating this away due to some sort of coded unwillingness to accept it, perhaps subconsciously, even if I consciously consider myself an ally.”

And that's the true masterpiece of this social experiment Bobo planted in the Supernatural universe with DreamHunter.

The world is grossly unfair and tilted in remaining cultural stigmas about queer males after ages of repressing them to limited niche capacities and stereotypes so strong that masculine gay men couldn’t even get cast in roles as gay men, where the world reads queer men as a punch line rather than a “duh” or “it’s so obvious” or “it’s just right there”, and DreamHunter is a walking fucking social experiment putzing around in Supernatural universe that gives no choice but to pick a side of the fence once you’re aware of these things.

Whether or not it’s physically consummated does not make it not-romantic. Being queer isn’t just about sex. It’s about feelings. And yes, we want our feelings to lead somewhere, and they deserve to lead somewhere, but is Jody acknowledging Claire’s “first love” now what suddenly makes it romantic, or is it the motions, the stories, and the feelings that preceded those lines, even though they never kissed and all hand-holding could be negotiated away the same way we can negotiate away our canon touches for two very emotionally involved men? “She was just leading her through the gate because she was scared,” “she was just consoling her as she died.” See how easy that is? But we won’t do that. And now, frankly anybody that does looks like a jackass.

So why, oh why, is this treated with ambiguity? This is a canon statement of “this relationship is being in love.” It was young love - it struck quick, in only an episode - but it was love. But name an element DreamHunter has to define that love that Destiel doesn’t? If you bend over backwards and try for the handholding, I can raise you hundreds of moments of intimate style contact. Try again.

Canon just confirmed what we already knew -- that Destiel is romantic. That there is love there. And not the kind of love we dismiss as Bros. Bobo just did that. Because every element of their relationship exists in Destiel, and a hundred times more. But it was first love. Dreamhunter was young love that came quickly, and not a single soul argued. Destiel is the same showcase of love, older, more matured, grown over years with dozens more moments of contact and display -- but in the very least, those moments -- those ones lived through DreamHunter in parallel -- that’s love. Canon literally just painted those sparse, compacted down elements, these behaviors we’ve seen, these moments, as coded romantic and in love. If you take nothing else from that -- take that. The elements that build Destiel are canonically romantic, when within DreamHunter and the question is -- without any physical affirmations or DreamHunter on screen, why is it romantic to them and not to Destiel? Why do we even humor this as a discussion, though we expect it, and what does this say of the coded phobias in fandom that we even have to expect it?

Dean and Cas haven’t kissed or dual-confessed to it in public, but you know... neither did DreamHunter. Unless of course we don’t talk down the timely placement of Need Yous and Love Yous and Big Wins and whatever else like people insist on doing with the MLM arrangement. Nobody’s talking down Jody’s third person “first love,” because we know better, and there’s not a mix of MLM and ship warring in play with DreamHunter. Bromance ends at the same line platonic female friendships end. Everyone accepts that DreamHunter is not platonic. Even without ceasing previous negotiations around poignant DeanCas lines, DreamHunter has established the romantic and loving engagements in retrograde. Canon has literally confirmed -- this relationship is romantic and in love.

And until this post, not a single person has tried to argue it down as Just Young Sis Love. Because we all know. Just like, deep down, everybody knows it about the mothership, some just don’t want to accept it. For whatever reason, subconscious or otherwise. I’ll laugh if the same antis that just tried to blind parallel it to W*ncest as a proof of love, while disconnected from the very origins and confirmations of DreamHunter, suddenly start rambling that doesn’t make DreamHunter canon either once this post gets around.

Berens is a fucking master ISTG.

I mean, I guess you’re free to celebrate any network level blockades going on right now while Bobo does Big Queer Fatal Combat from within, but allow me to celebrate DreamHunter whether or not we get consummation for Destiel, an MLM-scenario ship that has to deal with entirely other stigmas on a network primarily run by a bunch of old dudes. This is there. This will never be taken away. And cheering any blockades being run against MLM content with blatant intent does not make you the gr8 person here, m8.

This post is probably gonna have a low level of spread because it’s also something that forces even Destiel fandom to negotiate with themselves too -- how many lines and moments and whatever-else have we negotiated down, talked around, and chosen to interpret in the most left field way as if arguing ourselves from the position of an anti, only to get crack slapped across the jaw in this? How many have yelled queerbait without really observing what Bobo has been doing from within, how many have to face-or-deny the unfair queerbait shouting? How many hold-outs are we putting up, ourselves, because it isn’t the type or level of confirmation we want; we’re sitting here waiting for a bigger more dramatic reveal than a third person statement like that, or what-have-you, but when it’s not “our ship” that we are eternally defending from antis, and not a ship being targeted due to a mix of ship warring and MLM social issues, this is fine? And why is it okay when it’s not The Mothership and we totes accept it for DreamHunter canonization but we’re still talking circles around DeanCas like we’re our own antis? Why do we let anti-dom spin everyone’s head up in such knots that the majority expect Dabberens to live in stan twitter, abandon narrative properties and quality, and have Sam walk in on something while they profess their love and walk away with pictures as hard sealed photographic evidence when that isn’t expected of literally anybody else?

Can anybody tell me why Bobo Bookends Berens, who penned Cain -- Dean’s kindred spirit and fated path parallel -- calling out -- as confirmed -- that Castiel was his Colette, his wife, the love of his life that knew who he was, and what he was, that loved him unconditionally, forgave him, and only asked for him to stop -- a third person perspective -- has a third person, offscreen confirmation of the same sort, with far less plot weaving, taken universally as canon without the play of shifting goalposts via MLM social stigmas and/or ship warring stan twitter getting up in everybody’s heads?

Cuz it’s the same dude, guys. Same pen. A moment nobody even dismissed or TRIED to heckle out. If we just want to go third person while dropping punchline perception, we have everything from The Angel In The Dirty Trenchcoat Who’s In Love With You to Attached At The Everything. Y’all really think Bobo Berens is out here using his own sexuality as a tool and a punchline to be laughed at though? Bobo, “I protest human trafficing and ICE engagements front line in the body walls while people are being arrested” Berens? That guy? 

You’re gonna go out of his way that hard to miss the point just because you have phobic asshats on twitter, and/or asshole haters with “opposite ships” on twitter, or it’s just not the kind YOU wanted to see for Destiel, even if it’s enough for you to take it as canon in DreamHunter, when you already Been Had It for Destiel?

Meh. So many problems with DreamHunter, in there not being any problems with DreamHunter.

All Dabberens. Every Dreamhunter moment was a Dabb or Berens written previous Destiel moment. The meaningful third party line from Jody was Berens. Just like the meaningful third party line in Executioner’s song, also by Berens. Not just a random jab - someone who knew them inside and out. And that - people will take that as canon, again, when there’s no rival ships or MLM phobias in play. Every inch of Dreamhunter (and far, far more) existed in Destiel, by the same authors, porting the same concepts across, piece by piece, and like magic, nobody protested.

And if you’re protesting, or worse if you hilariously ship Dreamhunter but reject Destiel, despite -- I dunno -- Bobo’s own book reviews on issues like queerphobia and intersectional issues -- you may want to introspect on the real reason you’re denying it.

Because that, my friends, is a strictly personal problem.