#i woke up to bake a cake in a disney princess mood

[satorhime]

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[thejudgingtrash]

can we pleeeease talk about how rushed the whole Nico and Will relationship was? They talked for 2 minutes, don't see each other forever and boom they're together. Like ??? When did that happen? Certainly not in the books? (okay I haven't read the books in ages, but it felt so forced and extremely rushed or is it just me? I'm queer myself so I'm all for LGBTQ+ representation, but that's not it)

Alright let’s tackle this! Sorry for answering so late, I always answer asks that will be longer super late ^^ anyway. I’ve sorta received this ask twice but the other one has more focused on Nico with a little bit Solangelo on the side so I’ll just fully tackle the Solangelo side on this one.

I have three simple issues with Solangelo.

Age

Substance

Fandom

Alright. Let’s start off with the first point or problem. Age. Or rather time. As in timeline. Because we all know that Rick Riordan basically spins a wheel whenever it comes to his timeline and I won’t go fully into the maths because I’m terrible at it and I’m not in the mood for embarrassing myself in that metier. Anyway, let’s proceed. My question is: what is their canonical age? The one from Will and the one from Nico?

I’ve caught glimpse in a group convo at the fact that Will was supposed to be 18 actually if you pay close attention to pjo? And I mean Nico is like 15 or something? Which is also sorta wrong? Because Riordan made him younger than Hazel who was 14 in the Herpes of Olympus saga. 14 and 18 is a fuck no from me, son. I guess Riordan forgot that HOO essentially took place in two days or something.

Riordan aging his characters down or rather refusing to let them age (looking at you, Percy and Annabeth!) because it doesn't convenience him isn’t something new. So, should they be mathematically speaking have that much of an age gap, yeah. That is problematic. That’s Frazel level kinda problematic. Even worse. I know that people are more inclined to look past age gaps in same-sex relationships but I always wondered why? There’s still a disproportionate level of maturity + a mighty power imbalance. So yeah. Watch out for that. Also they’re kids. So there’s no need in tying the knot and popping expensive champagne for their wedding just yet.

I mean I don’t have a problem with the time traveling aspect as in Nico still being mentally and physically a kid/teen. A little odd, sure. It’s not like Nico and Will are Edward and Bella and Nico’s goth ass is mentally aging along and stalking Will’s sorry self. It’s still weird because it’s so unbelievable? Nico is barely struggling finding his way into the modern world, chills at Hades and calls it a day? Now that’s something I have an issue with. I need more struggle. I need more vocab mix-ups. Nico’s brain exploding at the modern world. The difference between the 1940s and the late 2000s is massive. That isn’t just oh, weird little haircuts and why are women wearing pants, it would be not being able to comprehend things and questioning every new little object. Will could’ve been an amazing support character for such an arch, buuuut I’m deviating from my actual point. The timeline/age-line in the Riordanverse is for sure more on the concerning part for all new characters + OG side characters.

Second point. Substance. The thing you’ve touched in your ask.

How and when did Nico and Will become a thing? My memory is terrible and I’m too lazy to browse the wiki. The only thing I remember was Will being a nagging bitch in Blood of Olympus after Nico essentially said “I've got to move on and be who I am, I just don't belong here, I hope you understand, we might find a place in this world someday, but at least for now... I gotta go my own way...” to Percy who just went ??? That marked the beginning for this ship. Basically. I think. Well... I said before in my Percabeth ship roast (more like ship analysis, I have to redo that, that was way too mild and unfunny, omfg): most of the romance is in your head because there’s barely anything romantic in Riordan’s books to begin with (which we all should actually be thankful for!). This applies to essentially every goddamn ship in this series but especially Solangelo. Holy fuck. Y’all are pulling out the wildest stuff out of your ass based on... what exactly? I mean props for creativity!

It is abundantly clear to me at least, that Riordan didn't write Nico with the intention of being gay. There was no real indication in the Percy Jackson series (and I refuse to believe that he was this sort of mastermind, that plotted about doing all of this behind Disney’s back to get the gays and latinos in. There’s a market for everything and diversity was a coming trend in the 2010s).

One could say: Hey! Isn’t it great that Nico wasn’t labeled as being gay? It normalizes homosexuality and makes sure that the lgbtq+ community isn’t something abstract but rather folk like me and you. And to that I’d say yes, I mostly agree if the follow-up arch is believable and plausible. Which it isn’t in my opinion. We jump from the Heroes of Olympus saga to The Trials of (Mo)Lester I mean Apollo and we’re having this HUGE jump? From barely knowing each other to being soulmates, sitting next to each other, hanging out, going on in their business, having the picket white fence, two kids, three dogs, living in a gentrified neighborhood and baking cherry pie on Sundays? HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK DID ALL OF THIS HAPPEN?! That is incredibly rushed. 

Aren’t...you shippers....Mad? That’s so cheap? I’d say so? Wouldn’t you like to have more pre-existing relationship and plausible development? With Percabeth you at least have a five book long progression, Solangelo is Riordan basically taking a dump on your plate and forcing you to eat it. And no, Riordan teasing the last Apollo doesn’t count.

Additionally, wouldn’t it be way better to still have a character say “Yeah, I’m gay. Pass me that salt, will ya?” without it being gimmicky or a foil or something for woke points? Just showing kids: “Hey, if you think this is a label that suits you, it’s fine! It’s perfect even! No worries!” (Also, the “coming out scene” with Jason and Cupid wasn't it, my loves. That was horrifying and insulting imo).

I mean. Show and tell are powerful tools in narration and telling more than often resolves unnecessary conflict/dialogue. And whereas season one from Percy Jackson had barely anything in that direction with Nico’s identity, season two didn’t make it any better. And season three is a complete cluster fuck.

Yeah. For me, the ship is super rushed.

Final point. The fandom.

I have to inter-subjectively state that Solangelo shippers are fucking crazy. I know Percabeth shippers (including me, helloooo) and especially the Annabeth stans for some odd reason are insane, but Solangelo shippers take the fucking cake and then some. There’s already a disconnect between the age groups in the fandom and it’s clear that more of the older teens and adults center around the Percy Jackson story and some in the Heroes of Olympus sequel, but from what I’ve seen the Trials of Apollo fandom is super young and on a whole different level. Might be the reason why facing some criticisms seems harder, because the minute you open your mouth to say something about Solangelo, you have people attacking you left and right. Chill guys, it’s not that deep? And it’s definitely not a personal attack on you. After all, I don’t know who you are and tbh Idgaf. 

Talking about the lack of substance, fanon will automatically come in and fill the gaps. Which is fine and something we all do, but I really have to wonder about the levels of extremes that some take?

We all center around certain tropes and what not and while the trope and dynamic behind Solangelo isn’t particularly something for me, I really have to ask why people are behind it. Don’t get me wrong. My question is touching on more on M/M fetishization because I think that is mostly the driving force for some people rather than liking the actual ship? I see more people projecting things into Nico and Will and it’s really turning their characters into something they aren’t? Especially with Nico, who gets turned into this 5 ft. UwU punk princess which is hella strange???

All in all, I don’t have anything against the ship apart from it’s overrushed nature and Riordan’s wacky timeline. Do whatever you want with it (apart from fetishizing and sexualizing the ship), no one’s stopping you from liking it. But I do believe there are some things to look out for, especially in the fandom.

Take it easy, guys.

[crimsonfacets]

💘 Jiggies this in here for the demon wifes uwu

send me 💘 + A SHIP and i’ll tell you—

where they first met and how

When Vaggie fell into Hell, she was drowning in a sea of tormented souls. It was a nightmare, and it was very, very painful. Charlie was the one who helped pull her to the surface and the first to hold her, as well as comfort her. It was a very impactful first meeting that led to Vaggie forming a very powerful trust in Charlie from the get-go, and for someone like her, that sort of thing is hard to achieve.

how long their ‘flirting’ phase was before feelings got involved

Long! Playful flirtations were part of their aesthetic, but of course, somewhere along the way, things got very, very real.

who fell for who first ( if applicable )

They’re a tale as old as time in Hell, because both started falling just around the same time. I’m not sure what happened, but I feel as though some sort of event happened with the two of them that begun their slip into a very deep, very true love with one another. I think it’d be fun to figure out what exactly happened. :)c

where their first date was and what it was like

I feel like Charlie might have suggested a bowling alley due to being so flustered, so their first date was at one of the most flashy and theatric bowling alleys in the First Ring. A very neon-palette place! Very fun, honestly. Vaggie wasn’t too sure about it since she’d never been bowling before, but they ended up having a blast! Vaggie even asked what took them both so long to do this. 

Afterwards, they both went for a drive to one of the best lookout points in Pentagram City and spent a few hours sitting atop the limo just.. snuggled up, and talking. Razzle and Dazzle wrapped them up with a shared blanket before leaving them to have their privacy. It was really nice, and they both just flatout fell asleep like that and woke up in Charlie’s room.

who asks who out and how ( with a sign? spelled out on a cake? just a simple ‘will you go out with me’? )

While I vibe with their canon story of them just having clicked together, I feel like after they both confessed, Charlie asked Vaggie out with panache; an enormous display of flowers formed into a heart with Vaggie’s name spelled out in the middle. Tons of stuffed toys and balloons. Cute cupcakes with little purple moths and goats on them. A bouquet of roses and being down on one knee.

Vaggie was very overwhelmed, but she loved it so much.

who proposes first

Charlie, for sure. Vaggie doesn’t have the confidence for it.

if they keep / kept their relationship secret or let everyone know right away

Pfff, as if they’d keep their love a secret. They’re proud of their love and are not hiding it! Everyone knew they were an item almost right away. Vaggie was a little nervous when it came to Charlie’s parents though, but Lilith&Lucifer had already far accepted her as a member of the family unbeknownst to her. The friendship she’s had with Charlie has a history and a fond one at that, so she’s been in the Magne fold for quite some time now. It was no shock to either of them that they both wound up like this.

where the proposal happens and how ( kiss cam at a baseball game? on a hillside surrounded by ducks? at a disney park? )

On Vaggie’s birthday. Charlie always does Vaggie’s birthday up big, even if it’s a closed event with just the two of them, plus R&D. This time, Charlie’s taken Vaggie up top to the Mortal Realm and they’re having a wonderful dinner in a very luxurious suite at a hotel that Vaggie has always wanted to stay in but had the funds to. It’s a private event and it’s a dream.

Charlie uses her magic and she summons some fireworks to enchant her beloved, and while she’s distracted, she gets on one knee and takes out a very gorgeous ring in an onyx band. Vaggie immediately senses something is going on, something more than it seems, and glances down, and nearly jumps out of her skin before immediately having tears just pour down her cheeks as she covers her mouth.

When Charlie pops the question, she even uses Vaggie’s real name. Priscilla López.

Of course, Vaggie says yes after tackling Charlie and smothering her in teary, teary kisses.

if they adopt any pets together

Maybe in the future when things are more stabilized and less at risk. A pet’s a big responsibility and they’re both very busy girls right now who are constantly on the go, and neither are irresponsible. I think a pet that’s independent could be good for them if they both wanted one, like perhaps a very regal and very lethal Hell Feline that’s warmed up to the both of them and incredibly loyal, and very protective. THAT could be cute. 

who’s more dominant

I feel like they switch, to be honest? One’s usually in the mood to take control, but they definitely have their moments where they’re both in the mood and “fight” for it lol. 

where their first kiss was and what it was like

Akin to the proposal being on Vaggie’s birthday, I like to think it was on Charlie’s birthday when they first kissed, brought on by Vaggie. She stole her Princess away from the crowd and used the Witching Hour to take Charlie to the mortal realm for an hour. There, she kissed Charlie under the stars, and it blew her mind. ♥

if they have any matching couples stuff ( mugs? sweaters? pillowcases? )

They have so much of this already people STRUGGLE with ideas of what to get them for their wedding. They have cups, they have pillowcases, they have shirts, they have shoes, they have bracelets, they have dinnerware, they have SO MUCH. SO MUCH.

It’s obvious they’re really into this. Like, really into it. Very sappy couple. 

how into pda they are

Incredibly. They do not care who sees them, they’re going to snog and snuggle in public as much as they want - they refuse to censor themselves or feel ashamed of their affections. It’s very common to see their arms linked, or seeing one wrapped around the other’s waist. Kisses and getting lost in one another’s attention is something they’re prone to do, Lilith bless ‘em.

who holds the umbrella when it rains

I feel like Charlie does this and Vaggie thinks it’s the sweetest thing. Leave it to her babe to always be prepared.

where their usual ‘date spot’ is ( if applicable )

Going with the first date, I think their fallback is that bowling alley for fun. It’s just an enjoyable locale overall where they can just kick back and enjoy the food, the fun and the atmosphere. There’s a skating rink conjoined to the place, so it’s not strictly bowling - they love to go skating, too!

This is subject to change of course if it’s not fitting for Charlie, it’s just what I drummed up. c: Essentially, a really neat Arcade in Hell.

No I am not imagining them taking their kids to the skating rink for the first time and skating as a family. No, I am not crying about it.

who’s more protective

Vaggie is incredibly protective (as the Pilot has shown us!), but when it comes to serious dangers, Charlie is the Princess of Hell and it shows. She’s kind, but she won’t let anyone disrespect her wife. You don’t take shit from other demons, and you certainly don’t let them treat your wife like it.

how long it is before they sleep together ( can be as in ‘had sex’ or as in ‘shared a bed’ )

They’ve shared a bed before since the earlier days of their friendship! They’ve always been pretty comfortable together, even if the thought gave Charlie internal *BI PANIC*. When it comes to intimacy, however, they slipped during their friendship stage. They’d been good friends for a while (at least a year in) then suddenly whoops, they became friends with benefits after a little too much flirtation and a little too much sexual tension went overboard!

if they argue about anything

They have disagreements, but they never let it escalate into arguments. They hear each other out and they talk civil, handling it maturely. No emotional screaming, no misunderstandings.

who leaves more marks ( lipstick, hickeys, scratchmarks etc. )

Oh, Vaggie for sure. She absolutely adores marking what’s hers and letting the entire world know just who Charlie belongs to.

who steals whose clothes and how often

Charlie loves to steal Vaggie’s clothes, especially her jackets and coats. Their styles are different; Charlie’s formal and snappy, and Vaggie’s more stylish and on the gothic side. She’s a little obsessed with her white feather jacket, and Vaggie just thinks that’s adorable. Meanwhile, Vaggie adores wearing Charlie’s dress shirts as sleep shirts. ♥

how they cuddle ( spooning? facing each other? )

Tucked into one another. They like zero space between one another when they cuddle! One head beneath the other’s chin, limbs all wrapped around the other. A sentient knot with fingers lost in hair and lips pressed to the top of the other’s crown. If not like this, their faces are mushed together. 

what their favourite nonsexual activity is

Besides affection? They really enjoy dancing together, and playing games where they get to be on the same team! They work very well together, if not sometimes losing focus because Charlie ends up goofing off and Vaggie ends up falling right after her lmao. 

But, dancing. Dancing steals the top spot, for sure. They could get lost in dancing together easily, and lose sight of everything around them just as much.

how long they stay mad at each other

Not long at all. Feels bad, man. They refuse to go a day where they’re on the wrong foot, going to bed on bad terms just does not settle well in their book.

what their usual coffee / tea orders are

I feel like they both like their coffee the same; black with a few spoonfuls of sugar. It’s shocking because people expect Charlie to like it super sweet, but she needs that pep to last her through the day, and Vaggie’s the same exact way. The stronger, the better! But it always needs sugar because they love that sweet note. They’ll always have a dessert tagged with it too, though. It changes, from fresh baked snickerdoodles to eclairs.

Tea, on the other hand, changes. They experiment and are always trying new blends! They’ll usually get whatever the place is serving as House rec. As a default though for home, they do enjoy their Darjeeling. Also, these girls take their tea time very seriously, especially when it’s been a chaotic week.

if they ever have any children together

Eventually, yes! Vaggie has her own issues to get through first; she’s not sure she could be worth a damn as a mother since her own screwed up with her own upbringing so royally, but with enough assurances and talking, she’ll come around. The idea of them both being mothers makes her heart flutter. :’)

I like the thought of them having a bunch of daughters, but I like the thought of them having just one, too. Depends on what we’re feeling if we get to that point! <3

if they have any special pet names for each other

Of course they do! Terms of endearment are regularly used between these two. Vaggie usually calls Charlie, “Mi Princesa”, while Charlie calls her a whole litter of names every day of the week. Sugarbear, Honeycup, Sweetie-face, Apple of my Eye.. you name it. Vaggie, astoundingly, keeps up and is impressed Charlie has not run out of anything yet.

if they ever split up and / or get back together

NO.

red is not a fan of these tropes and will avoid them like the plague.

what their shared living space is like ( messy? clean? what kind of decor? )

Clean with decorative clutter. It’s a very cool clash of worlds, with Charlie’s classy style and Vaggie’s more darker aesthetic. They have creepy-cute plushies everywhere and canopies galore in red, black and purple. The air seems to sparkle. It’s a bedroom befitting the Princess of Hell, molded with her lover. 

You have walls filled with posters of Charlie’s favorite musicals and memorabilia, and Vaggie’s more.. suggestive wall art and gothic posters ranging from original work she purchased to bands. There’s a wall they decorated themselves with their own graffiti and have tacked on lots of special things they both like!

There’s a corner of the room that serves as their online area; it’s a swerving black glass table with one computer that is Vaggie’s, and next to it is Charlie’s. Their areas are very personalized, but they have two little funko pop figures of themselves meeting at the middle of their sections that they mess with and change the positions of.

The bed is, of course, vast in size. Very comfortable, like laying on a mattress filled with feathers, which makes it very hard for Vaggie to get out of bed in the morning. The general blanket is black with a holographic effect that gives it a red and purple gradient, and the white sheets below are satin with the same property. There’s a lot of big, plump pillows too - black with gradients ranging from unicorns to moths and rainbows, depending on how the casing. 

They have a balcony they have their tea time on, with a black iron wrought table and chairs to fit. A porcelain tea set gifted from Lilith with an apple theme, although the cups were purchased by the girls. “Hers&Hers” theme along with the setting, from washable napkins to the silverware. To boot, the bottom of the tea cups say “I love you”. 

what their first christmas / hanukkah / etc as a couple was like

Wholesome. They’ve always had their Christmases together ever since they started bonding real tight, but this domestic vibe was added when they’d begun dating. It’s the same, nothing much has changed, but now there’s themes of romance and kisses beneath the mistletoe. 

It was very warm and tender. A very pleasant memory in both their minds, memories from the gift exchanges to preparing a dinner for four (themselves + R&D), then later visiting Charlie’s parents at the Castle. 

Vaggie loves the memory so much. She still can’t believe she can have a very beautiful Holiday like this in Hell, but Charlie’s here proving to her that it’s possible time and again.

what their names are in each other’s phones

On Vaggie’s phone: “💖 👑 𝓟𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓬𝓮𝓼𝓪 👑 💖 💍”

On Charlie’s phone: “💞 🥰 It’s Vaggie!! 🥰 💞 💍 ✨” 

if they have any ‘couple traditions’ ( buying a new mug for their collection every year? baking every friday evening? )

Tea time, as mentioned before. Tea time is so crucial for both their peace of mind and generally for having a really lovely time together that’s like a mini-date-at-home. It’s a dedicated moment they both use to slow their roll and take stock, too. They both get so caught up in the business of getting the Hotel up-and-running they can oft neglect important things like eating and drinking, and just, you know, taking a break. R&D stick them to it and pull them out of their busy bee mindsets. :’>

who falls asleep first and who wakes up first

My girl falls asleep FAST, but I feel like Charlie’s always the first to wake up and usually Vaggie’s own personal wake-up call!

who’s the big spoon / little spoon

They switch! Sometimes you’ll find Vaggie draped over Charlie, other times you’ll find Charlie wrapped up around the tiny lilac-gray ball that is Vaggie.

who hogs the bathroom

Their bathroom is enormous! There is no hogging, there’s using it at the same time! It’s honestly cute and hilarious to watch them both fuss around while groggily chattering, sometimes clattering together to use the mirror even though it’s like, six feet long. They just gravitate to one another and clog the other’s space, mushed together. It’s handy though, because usually they’ll help one another with brushing hair and fixing clothes!

who kills the spiders / takes them outside

It depends on who gets there first! Although Charlie’s gotten Vaggie into the habit of sparing their HELLISH little lives, she still prefers to be the one who shoos them out in case Vaggie just says, “fuck it” and SQUASHES. Hell Spiders are no laughing matter - They’ll Fuck You Up.