#i'm literally three minutes in and am like hmmm yes this character makes me think there's a kate au in here

[sergeant-angels-trashcan]

“sometimes, when i can’t sleep, i imagine brutally murdering that dude. and i’m out like a light. works every time.”

[thebootybitchdragon]

So, first of all, I am super excited to have found somebody as excited about the clone as I am. I've been thinking about it a lot since Butch posted his video. But, I'm confused, because I thought this was ten years into the future? Wouldn't original Danny be older? Like 24 I think? Aside from that, you guys got some really good ideas about this character, and I've been laughing at some of the comments for a good few minutes.

AHHHH someone else who likes the clone!Welcome friend!!! 8) lmao, I was browsing the Phantom tag yesterday waswas so disheartened by how many people were irritable at all of thedesigns or downright kicking them to the curb. Which, isunderstandable, everyone has their tastes, and I agree that most ofthem are just…..Put Them Back embodiments, but it was still sad tosee so little interest in the Clone.

Because its such a good idea ripe withpotential, both for TUE levels of darkness and for hilariousscenarios. For once (ONCE) Butch has done okay by me.

And now to actually answer yourquestion, lmao: Yes, you are correct, the original concept was Vladfor ten years into the future, with a teenage Danny clone (I do admitthat’s super squick, like Vlad do you have no other hobbies besidesbeing fucking creepy? Go outside and play some tennis my dude.) sincethe video was a part 2 to the original Phantom concepts for the tenyear anniversary. However, at least in the ideas and concepts I’vebeen talking about and personally throwing around, I’ve gotten rid ofthe ten year span.

Because it literally doesn’t makesense.

I have contempt for the officialPhantom timeline bc its so inconsistent, but a majority of peoplehave it taking place over a two year time span, based on the twosummer episodes. (This is something I personally don’t agree with,but I have no evidence to argue it so I’m stuck like a petulantchild grumbling in the corner) and Vlad gives Valerie her gear in S1Ep10, Shades of Grey. I cannot recall if it was specifically statedin canon Vlad was using her to get Danny’s DNA, but I’m trustingthe wiki bc I really don’t want to endure re-watching Kindred Spiritsand D-Stabalized. If we assume that this had been Vlad’s goal fromthe start (something I disagree with and will touch more aboutbelow), that means that he’s been gathering Danny’s DNA for about ayear to two years if we estimate heavily with the nonsense timebetween the episodes.

In that time span, he figured out howto do the cloning, built the equipment, went through countlessprototypes to figure out all the bumps and snags, made severaldecently “functional” clones (Dani and the one he fucking murdersas a display), made the “perfect” one, and figured out exactlywhat he needed to stabilize an artificial hybrid of ghost and humanorigin.

In two years max.

It would not take him ten fuckin yearsto recreate a successful perfect clone. Even if everything wasdestroyed twice and he lost Valerie’s “assistance”. And thereason for that is because he already knows how. The hard part isdone. Once you know how to do something through so much trial anderror, you know what not to do and what you should do the nexttime around. Vlad doesn’t need to re-figure out how to make astable, perfect clone again, he can just get the equipment, the DNA,whatever and just do it.

Which he was most likely attemptingto already do in D-stabilized.

[Edit: I neglected to look on thewiki before writing this entire thing bc I was confident I know thematerial and apparently I need to get a reality check on my ego bc Iwas completely misremembering D-Stabalized. The fallowing should betaken with gratuitous lumps of salt bc I’m salty at this discoveryand also I haven’t changed anything in it.]

Why do you think hewas going after Dani? Why would he want that information of “Whyare you so stable?” if he wasn’t trying again? If he wasn’t at thepoint that he NEEDED to stabilize something? For future knowledge?Please. If Vlad was truly going to make another perfect clone, hewould not wait several months after loosing the first doing literallynothing but tormenting Danny and being an ass, nor until after he’sfigured out Dani. He was working on the Clone project for a long timeunder everyone’s noses in the first place, so who’s to say he wasn’tagain?

I’m saying Vlad wasliterally within inches of succeeding in D-stabalized. That healready had a second Clone ready to stabilize.

[Edit: I was incorrect in thinkingVlad only wanted Dani to learn why she’s stable, he wanted to use herto make another perfect clone. I was close, but not close enough. Iam still standing by my theory, however, canon can suck it. It’sstill at least feasible.]

Hartman suggestedin the video, as I’m sure you know, that the Clone (I call himDaniel bc there’s literally no way he’s not namedDaniel.) has some of Vlad in him. And this, my friend, melds so well with where canon dropped off.

Vlad wanted andattempted to stabilize the clones with Danny’s full DNA, probably soit would be 100% Danny, enough to the point he was willing to murderDani to figure her out/use her. However, after failing to get themid-morph from Danny (failure 1) and failing to get anything fromDani (failure 2), Vlad would be unlikely to try the same thingsagain. I would also like to think he’d also be unlikely to continuing to announce “OI I’M CLONEING YOU” to Danny, but it’sVlad so you never know.

He would be forcedto think of something else.

There is nothing incanon suggesting that Vlad couldn’t use his own mid-morph tostabalize a clone. He never brings it up, never explains why themid-morph is the critical link aside from the fact that it just is.There’s very little info about just how these clones are made, sothere’s no known rules to what could work and what wouldn’t. A possible reason this might not work is that it could function likebody parts or blood types, where you need a match in order for it tobe properly accepted. In that case, however, its just figuring outwhat you need to tweak in order to force an acceptance, somethingprobably made easier to do when you’re in control of the entiregenetic sequence you’re fiddling with.

This would not taketen years to do. None of it would. It would take at most, I think ayear. Maybe two, but that’s pushing it. I also have a theorythat Vlad was being so obtuse in Season 3 was to purposefullydistract Danny, but take that as you will.

This is all of myfancy way of explaining why my personal ideas are set so close to theactual canon and kicking that gross ten years to the curb.

As for my forgotten notion about why Idon’t think Vlad started cloning from Valerie’s beginning was becauseVlad was still mostly focused on Maddie up until Maternal Instincts,which occurs 6 episodes after Shades of Grey. Shades of Greyis only three episodes from Bitter Reunions as well.That’s a pretty small amount of time for someone still (reasonably)sane to go “I liked that kid, I want him to be my son. I shouldclone him.”

I’d also like to state that in the fourepisodes Vlad appears in before Kindred Spirits (not including TUE)but after Maternal Instincts, not once is his main goal Danny.Nor is it ever Maddie, either. Danny becomes a factor in MillionDollar Ghost, however his main goal is still stealing the portal. InReign Storm, he’s more inclined to use Danny than to try to make himhis son, bc again: his goal is the artifacts. In Secret Weapons, Vladisn’t even interested in Danny when he’s dropped in the middleof his lab. Tbh, I can’t for the life of me figure out what Vlad’sgoal was in the whole sibling battle thing, he really just fucked hisplans up himself in that one. In Masters of All Time, his goal wasthe cure, and again, had no problems using Danny as a pawn.

Kindred Spirits is the first place inthe entire series where we see the extent of how far he’s willing togo to get Danny to be his son. The first episode where it’s his maingoal.

I just realized how close MaoT andKinSpirits are, I wonder if Vlad triggered the Ectoacne flare workingwith the ectoplasm for the clones? Hmmm, interesting.

Anyway, the point is: Vlad kept hiscloning stuff a secret, but for how long remains a mystery. Mostlybecause there’s no point in time where it becomes obvious just howdesperate he is to have Danny. Is it when he saw an opportunity withValerie? Or is it after Danny ruins his attempts to get the Ring ofRage back from Pariah by blowing up the ectosuit so he was just like“Well fuck, now what do I do to keep myself busy?”

Getting back onto the topic of Cloneand Original Danny, there’s a second, lesser reason I’ve personallybumped the time skip, and that’s because there would be literallyZero conflict between a 14 year old and a 24 year old.

OlderDanny would kick his ass, trainingfrom Vlad be damned.

OlderDanny would also not be fazed asmuch as a younger Danny as his identity being perverted by a clone.This is because the age gap would automatically render them as beingtwo different people. OlderDanny would not see the clone as himself,at least not fully, because he’s already a mature adult. The clonecould not torment Danny with the fact that he’s him, that he’sstealing anything, that he’s threatening his notion of being andsense of self. Because OlderDanny has nothing to fear about a youngerversion of himself; he’s stronger, wiser, and different enough. Thedynamic simply doesn’t work. This is why Danny could be okay withDani: he doesn’t see himself in her. He doesn’t think of her as aclone, as the doppelganger. Because she’s a girl, she’s younger,she’s different. She isn’t him in his eyes.

With an identical copy, that’s notsomething you can avoid or ignore. Can’t deny that its not your facetwisting into that evil smirk that looks so wrong because itsfamiliar but not. Its you, but its not, and its uncomfortable,its an invasion of privacy, the ultimate identity theft. Its a personthat wears your face, sees with your eyes, speaks with your voice,thinks with your brain, and bleeds with your blood. And yet its notyou.

The closest thing Danny had to this wasDan. But Dan could be defeated. Dan could be made so that he neverexisted in the first place, completely avoided.

Daniel could not.

Daniel’s creation is out of Danny’scontrol, his existence never takes into account what Danny wants orcares, because its done at Vlad’s whims. And that’s the worstpart: the lack of control. To know that an identical yet completelywrong version of yourself exists against your will and you haveabsolutely no control over it is torture, especially for someone whoalready had cause to fear himself once before. Sure, Danny can fightDaniel, suck him up into a thermos, and maybe kick it into the ghostzone to try to be rid of him forever, but he would still existand he could always come back. Unlike Dan.  And there’snothing Danny could do about it.

What even could be do? Try todestabilize him? Ask clockwork to erase him from existence? Lock himin a thermos and bury him deep in the ice caps? Kill him?

Would Danny truly be the person to tryany of those?

In other words, the closer Daniel is tobeing like Danny, the worse effect it would have. So its all aboutmaximizing that to get the full potential of the conflict. Dannyneeds a reason to see Daniel’s creation as the ultimate line crossed,the “This has gone too far” moment. Danny needs a reasonto not only despise, but fear his clone.

There are some….problems, with this,and I’ve already used them in my argument: the fact that it another you is too different, you stop seeing it as yourself. AndDaniel is not an identical copy. He has aspects of Vlad in him.There’s a very fine line to be walked, between Daniel being similarenough that it hurts Danny while being different enough to count as adifferent character. The design alone might already doom it. But fuckit, you people can pry my inverted skunk haired baby from my colddead hands.

I realize that this is a very longresponse, and very little of it pertains to what you asked. However,I hope you enjoyed my analysis and my explanation of my personalreasoning. This was a lot of fun to talk about (I can’t remember if Igot into some of the things in other asks or if I’m recalling themfrom a thing I was gonna post but hasn’t gotten to yet. If thereare repeat things, I’m sorry! My memory is v bad.) and I thank youfor the ask!

I also realize that a majority of thisask talks about making Daniel Danny’s worst enemy, which goes againstthe “They slowly become bed buds” ask I got earlier. I receivedthat ask before I really had any ideas of what to do with Daniel, andsince I’m loving this worst enemy idea, the conflict isunderstandable. The friend idea is still on the table tho! All itneeds now is a climax, a trigger, a turning point. Something thatchanges the dynamic to start that “I hate you, but not as much as Idid, and I kinda sorta enjoy your company a little bit.” ball a’rollin.

Fuck if I know what that is tho lmao