#idk. i might delete this later i dont know how coherent it is

[mattdcblog]

Both guy and Ted are canonically fans of star trek. What I'm saying is that, if given room to confront their differences and talk honestly with each other, especially with the growth they've gone through (more guy than Ted), they might be able to tentative, if not good frie- [I'm dragged away by a pack of eagles before I can continue]

[somnilogical]

petty bitch

[22:58] somni: this body is really pretty 2 me rn [23:14] somni: that lasted 16 minutes [23:59] somni: okay this is super petty but im kind of annoyed that porpentine

>talks big about the experience of being ugly and gross >has a fleshform thats amazingly pretty

i feel so betrayed??? (i dont actually feel betrayed, i just feel i want to be pretty)

i wanna be pretty so bad

i wish i could stop wanting to look pretty and okay

ill probably end up having an abstract n dimensional figure if i have a form. idk if id still use a vision analogue in simspace

liike non-passing -> passing as 10000-dimensional representation of parts of my psyche

i kind of wish i could look nice in the middle(edited) 24 March 2018 [00:00] somni: kind of sad but at least i look better than i did before hormones [00:42] somni: okay

i think ill acknowledge petty and hug her but not let her front because letting things front makes them stronger? [00:43] somni: i think. ive read this no strong experience corroborating it with 2 sec of thought [00:45] SmolDuck: I think uhhh It’s important to try to like make sure all your subagents have their needs met and letting them front can lead to them taking care of their needs and then going to bed and leaving you be, while keeping them from fronting can lead to them going crazy and driving you nuts [00:45] SmolDuck: it can also lead to them sabotaging things tho so [00:47] somni: i knoooow mertl i originally wrote ‘fork’ [00:47] somni: because i also thought that and wasnt sure!! [00:48] somni: this is actually a hard choice for me,!,! [00:48] somni: but specifically petty i will ask her what is up [00:48] SmolDuck: sounds like you might want to gather experimental data by trying each path and seeing how it goes [00:48] somni: and not go autobloodlet [00:49] somni: hmmmmmm its haaard to be systemic about this thouuuugh thats a cached thought and may be #invalid [00:50] somni: (all thoughts are valid ooohh bb im so sorry for saying that omg. what was i thinking) [00:51] somni: i think the cached thought might be inaccurate [00:52] SmolDuck: nodnod [00:52] SmolDuck: outdated [00:52] SmolDuck: obsolete [00:53] somni: i want to try reinforcing things that i want to be stronger hmmmmmmmm [00:53] somni: merrr and talk privately with the other voices?

that would annoy me if people did that tho [00:54] somni: less so if they listened and changed policies based on my input? [00:55] somni: idk i dont like to declare things conserved quantities, because particular kind of zero sum thinking can cause lock in…. in most people i dont think it would lock me in because im actually good at noticing this

but it does seem like these two things trade off(edited) [00:56] SmolDuck: Hmmmmm [00:57] SmolDuck: Gentle reminder that this is not at all a private location for talking to your voices [00:59] somni: this is true [01:00] somni: the voices are #screaming tho and i gotta process

so like i thiiink that i want to be able to shift between these states depending on a thing but i d k what the thing is [01:01] SmolDuck: External cue? [01:02] somni: like between the states of letting everymodule out and trying to reinforce what ecosystem i want to have (who i want to beee) [01:03] somni: im keeping this post https://radimentary.wordpress.com/2018/01/16/the-solitaire-principle-game-theory-for-one/ in the back of my mind as a guiding framework when i say this(edited) [01:05] somni: and have been thinking of incentivizing and reinforcing parts of me i want (different but not disjoint from what i find pretty) [01:10] somni: i was also thinking of the process by which i passively gain most of my updates in personality traits and aesthetics and beliefs

where you have:

evaluate {laugh, aesthetic response, ooh i like it!} inspect for coherence with other parts (okay i often skip over this but also sometimes do it here instead of later) mirror the thing i like reinforce pattern by imitating independently let other people who have the pattern do discernment on your imitation, take criticism [01:11] somni: –

its like getting minor updates on all your programs nbd. passive growth / expansion [01:13] somni: –

but this is like directed towards growth and change which is different from being okay with and acknowledging the parts you currently have… except its not?

not really? not the way i do it

i mean yes its a different process but i d k if the two actually trade off in me when i do this thing

i was. autocompleting from memories of others subjective experience reports [01:13] somni: hmmmmmmmm [01:15] somni: i could probably both accept parts of me while reinforcing other parts at the same time [01:15] somni: meeevvvvvvvv okay so the thing nathan said is also a good observation that we also noted [01:15] somni: wanna address that [01:16] SmolDuck: wait which thing [01:16] SmolDuck: I say a lot of things [01:16] SmolDuck: fully half of them are framed to sound insightful but are actually kind of bullshit [01:16] somni: I think uhhh It’s important to try to like make sure all your subagents have their needs met and letting them front can lead to them taking care of their needs and then going to bed and leaving you be, while keeping them from fronting can lead to them going crazy and driving you nuts [01:16] SmolDuck: oh, yeah that one I endorse [01:16] somni: me too! [01:16] somni: i think!! [01:17] SmolDuck: ……uh [01:17] SmolDuck: if you did disagree, what would your disagreement be? is maybe a good way to find out [01:18] somni: let me think

ummm i might want to ask the subagent what its going to do [01:18] somni: if it fronts and talk with it [01:20] somni: but idk why do the council of elders have to be in concordance before i do anything

they dont thats literally not how you work

but i mean like in the ideal, or like in this ideal

we talked with person about how we have the council of all the parts of you, they talk it out and give their cases and then if their cases dont agree with you, you throw them out and do what you wanna do(edited) [01:21] somni: um! ！！ [01:21] somni: there are like three different alerts saying that’s wrong [01:22] somni: >yeah but one of them is our sim of nathan’s reaction so we can throw it out [01:22] SmolDuck: I endorse that [01:23] SmolDuck: if you want my reaction I can give it to you directly [01:23] SmolDuck: if you don’t want my reaction, toss your simmed version [01:23] somni: omg okay i miiight endorse this way of choosing

it is consonant with the way of choosing where to live where you have a bunch of spreadsheets and crunch the numbers and if in the end you dont like what the numbers say, throw them out and move where you wanna [01:24] somni: but its important to deliberate first because figuring out what choice you want to make is not always clear [01:26] somni: but also sidenote most choices branch out and then converge to roughly the same endpoint and for these you can actually do whatever you want without consideration as long as you can identify this sort of structure well [01:29] somni: um this is related to impulsive longsightedness where you mentally model the state of your body 1 day in the future and see that you are more or less safe invariant over a wide range of actions. so you are free to do fun and weird stuff. (that often looks really impulsive and reckless to people who are running shortsighted or people running 24hr!longsighted but who occupy a different epistemic state. but ime most of the objections and autoresponses come from people running shortsighted.)(edited) [01:32] somni: –

ooookaaay coming back to… what was the thing before the branch?

how to choose!

you have a bunch of voices in your head! how do we determine how fronting works and whats a good idea and how to pursue goals

and whose goals matter and how the system will grow and change and what parts of it to practice

okay stating it right here, evermodule’s goals matter [01:32] somni: >matter

like every module gets to be heard [01:50] somni: hmmmmm

this looks like a Project

okay!

so i want to be able to direct my growth #VALID

i also want to be able to tend to the parts of me [like id tend to a garden] #VALID

i dont have to maintain and reinforce things i dont want to grow in to #VALID what?! how is this valid??

>so look if i grow into new things and go in new directions, old things that are depricaded kind of iwhrvissh… i want to say fade away but idk what happens. they stop existing as much. stop being as available and salient?

i think there’s an important distinction between actively going around optimizing for killing parts of you. and like growing outwards into something new and the old stuff doesnt get that much reinforcement anymore because you cant hold on to everything, and even of i could i don’t want to?

some old parts are depricaded because they are clearly inferior on all fronts from their replacement, some because im not that interested anymore

maybe this is deathism? (mer what is it doing that causes harm though?) i may want to keep more in the gtf but not everything. though rn i want a memory with no non-con deletions [02:01] somni: -

okay

i want to be able to reinforce stuff i like and grow  directedly

um does this mean things that want to cant go out to play sometimes?

wait okay i think we are talking about different things because there are a lot of desires and stuff that you cant make die by not feeding them? the will to masturbate under t being one of them

i feel there’s a distinction between the thing you are talking about and other sorts of values and desires that are embedded in people.

um im addressing both the hard to get rid of and the more ephemeral things like 'hi im workethic bot!’…. my work ethic, when i have it does not sound like that but okay. and also 'work ethic’ isnt a native concept??? it isnt part of us yet but i know it as a thing that is part of other people.

maybe its part of us but havent really processed what 'work ethic’ is in internal terms when people use it. i think we have something different than the median meaning of work ethic but also it could be projected down to 'work ethic’ for legibility and people would still be able to follow most sentences i would output with the concept. …. given that i also worked to make the other stuff 'legible’. i hate the word 'legible’ now!!!

>why tho?

it is overused and i feel like you papered over subtleties there and there are more good details. buuuut ill think about this later. [02:07] somni: -

okay!

back to what i was thinking about. i think that

>i

k, lotsa agents up in this skull

stilll we think directed growth is nice and i think im okay with letting parts be deprecated

so a core problem here is that fronting does more than one thing!!!

so far im tracking two things i think fronting does:

(1) lets a module take full control of the body so it can get its needs met (2) reinforces the strength of the module [02:08] somni: -

autoquestion: (can we seperate these things?) are there other ways to let a module get its needs met besides fronting? are there ways to reinforce the strength of modules without fronting?(edited) [02:11] somni: @SmolDuck also im on 20 mg moda which i think accounts for a bit of why im Like This. but ooh! what do you think about the separability of the things? [02:14] SmolDuck: Hmmmmm [02:14] somni: ill take some l theanine to help CALM and help the comedown process go smoothly

(i think im coming down a bit) (im p sure this is moda comedown qualia) [02:15] SmolDuck: It depends on the need [02:15] SmolDuck: Seraph does better the less they front, currently [02:15] SmolDuck: the little one needs gentleness and respect [02:16] somni: nodnod [02:17] SmolDuck: if their need is like, 'attention’ they might need to front to get that fulfilled [02:17] SmolDuck: if their need is 'feeling safe’ then they can do that without fronting [02:17] SmolDuck: in my personal experience, ymmv, ianad, etv [02:18] somni: (i think im only a little more than median fragmented but of people in my fragmentation reference class im a LOT more self-aware of the thing) [02:18] somni: nod

hmmm [02:21] somni: you are very focused on taking care of parts and this is good and a thing to do…….

i dont think im as attached to parts-as-they-are but like parts that are anthropically called into existence because they can optimize over a thing (like if a module for containing anxiety isnt good at it, it sort of dies and is replaced with a new pattern; whatever anxiety containment module i have after a bit is a result of an iterative process like this*)

hmmmmmm

i do care about their welfare, but i think i care about them differently?? its hard to put my finger on(edited) [02:24] somni: *i also have spiritual feelings about this wrt people. where problems form voids in space to be filled by people who have shaped themselves to solve the problem [02:25] SmolDuck: hmmmm [02:26] somni: <i <l<3ve3 my spiritual feelings3 [02:31] somni: liike i think okayness works differently when parts of you keep getting replaced and this is standard operating procedure

whereas your parts seem like humans who eat soup and live in a village together and talk

and less like theyll quickly die and be replaced with another thing when the problem shifts [02:31] SmolDuck: nod [02:31] somni: wow okay i have low confidence in this model of my structure but it is like 1/3 right [02:31] somni: maybe 2/3? [02:32] SmolDuck: ………idek if any of us like soup [02:33] somni: hm i meant soup as a stand in for comfort and eating [02:33] SmolDuck: Ahhh [02:33] SmolDuck: I think we like clam chowder [02:35] somni: also im on moda so a lot of the descriptions will be biased towards mania / inducing in me a visceral sense of motion i thiink (die and be replaced is motion-y) [02:35] SmolDuck: ahh [02:35] somni: oooh…. everyone likes clam chowder? [02:38] SmolDuck: yeah [02:38] SmolDuck: some things, we all like, cause they’re pleasant for our body [02:40] somni: wheeew

this is better than last time

wait last time was 50 mg; okay i feel like i might be approaching the harsh meta-ing out event horizon and id want my squid module analogue to help keep calm [02:40] somni: –

hm it is nice that you can agree on something [02:41] SmolDuck: we cooperate pretty well now that we’ve actually talked about this and agreed that mutual cooperation is optimal [02:44] somni: like i can do better meta but at the event horizon things become a Lot and stuff dissolves and syntax feels like an illusion and things connect to other things without bottoming out and stuff dissolves

idk i feel like it diverges from metacog, though the chemicals help metacog in some ways [02:47] somni: okayyy feeling better

i dont need to be so tied to this visceral experience but also have the impulse that i want people with me

it doesnt affect my core i dont think which means panic attack is probs not going to happen [02:49] somni: -

if i become enlightened do i have to let go of drama? (no)

okay good because i like drama and snark and all that gay stuff [02:55] somni: -

so like ive been okay the whole time im so proud of me? im able to meditate in the eye of the storm, of course ive maintained calm under much more difficult circumstances but that was unexpected and i improvised as best i could.

i feel like i can actually do this reliably?

i still have the urge to grouse about it and snark which is spooooky why is this still appealing? is it blindsight grousing? force of habit? if im still attached and want to grouse maybe i havent let… something… go completely? idk what i mean by 'let something go’ but i def mean something [03:14] somni: @SmolDuck thanks for talking with me [03:15] SmolDuck: 👍👌