#if the jedi are to blame for Anakin's downfall then that conflicts with the film's major themes

[david-talks-sw]

As a quick addendum to this recent post:

Could the Jedi have done more to help Anakin? Sure. There's myriad more things that could've been done. For example, Mace could've sat Anakin down in the Council Chamber and gone "Skywalker, tell me what's really going on."

But it bears mentioning that the above scenario ⬆️ likely wouldn't yield any results. Because, well, Anakin barely ever opens up about his feelings or fears or past trauma.

He doesn't do it with Yoda, when the latter asks for more tangible information so he can tailor his advice.

He barely ever opened up to Ahsoka.

He barely did so with Obi-Wan.

And by Revenge of the Sith, he's even shutting Padmé out.

(Yes, part of it is due to the secrecy surrounding his marriage, but I've already explained my thoughts on why it's an unfounded fear at that point in time, and it's not the only factor behind his silence as he already didn't open up as far back as Phantom Menace, nor is it his only secret)

The only person he does confide in is Palpatine, who:

keeps enabling Anakin's flaws instead of letting him learn to overcome them,

keeps isolating him from everyone else.

And Palpatine's both the most powerful Sith in history and the leader of the free world, so he's always gonna find a way to worm himself into Anakin's life.

As long as Palpatine's in the picture, no matter what the Jedi or Padmé do, he'll be right around the corner, ready to undo it.

So at some point - short of Palpatine tripping into an empty elevator shaft and falling to his death - the only person who could've gotten Anakin out of that mess... was Anakin himself.

Would it have been difficult? Hell yes.

But as Shmi Skywalker (who let go of her attachment), Padmé Amidala (disciplined and principled), Obi-Wan Kenobi (refused to give in to anger upon losing the love of his life), Ezra Bridger (rejected the Emperor's promise of power and reunification with his loved ones), Luke Skywalker and Quinlan Vos (pulled back from the Dark Side against all odds) have shown us... it wouldn't have been impossible.

"All of my movies are about one thing, which is the fact that the only prison you’re in is the prison of your mind. And if you decide to open the door and get out, you can. There’s nothing stopping you." - George Lucas, SirusXM, American Voices, 2012

[padme-amitabha]

Is Anakin and Vader the same person?

I think I have talked about this before but I’ll reiterate the main points.

Of course they are the same person at different points in life. I don’t choose to follow Disney’s interpretation of anything about Star Wars. They hire writers and pay them to write their own fanfiction and interpretation and it’s far from George’s vision so I don’t see any reason to. Only 1-6 movies are canon to me with few exceptions such as 2003 Clone Wars and a few legends material but I’ll always put more emphasis on the movies.

Now from Revenge of the Sith movie we see Anakin become Vader (and by that I mean undergoing a surgery and being put into the suit). While the mask is being lowered we can see the fear in his eyes and his face is still recognizable. Fast forward 23 years and there’s no reason to believe he’s a different person. The only time he talks about his name is when Luke brings it up and he says “that name no longer has any meaning for me” not “I destroyed Anakin” or something similar to that. He is completely right because obviously it doesn’t hold any meaning for him - everyone who called him and knew him by that name (Shmi, Obi-Wan and Padmé) were all dead and his master called him Vader. And he had gotten used to the name in over two decades. Also, Palpatine probably preferred that he distance himself from his past hence referring to Luke as “the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.” Vader wasn’t a personality; it was just a new name he went by and since the mention of his real name brought back unpleasant memories he tried not to think of himself as the same person as a coping mechanism. This is why Vader tells Luke it’s too late for him to redeem himself - because he knows he commited some terrible deeds and hurt his loved ones and he can’t ever take that back. If he wasn’t Anakin, he wouldn’t feel that guilt or remorse for Anakin’s wife and mentor.

It’s the same as Padmé in TPM really - we see Padmé first as Queen Amidala who is a regal authoritative figure and then we see her true self when she’s in disguise.

Anakin winced, then quickly picked up another holograph, this one showing Padmé a couple of years later, wearing official robes and standing between two older and similarly robed Legislators. He looked back at the first holo, then to this one, noting that Padmé’s expression seemed much more severe here. “My first day as an Apprentice Legislator,” Padmé explained.

Then, as if she was reading his mind, she added, “See the difference?” Anakin studied the holograph a moment longer, then looked up and laughed, seeing Padmé wearing that same long and stern expression. She laughed as well, then squeezed his shoulder and went back to her packing.

Anakin put the holographs down side by side and looked at them for a long, long time. Two sides of the woman he loved.

This is from the AOTC novelization and this can be applied to Anakin as well. (More about similarities between Darth Vader and Queen Amidala in this post.) Just like Queen Amidala is really Padmé Naberrie, in the same way Darth Vader is really just Anakin Skywalker.

The reason why he has a different demeanor in OT is mostly due to his age and because he had years to adapt to his new persona. Vader in ROTS didn’t immediately become all stoic and impassive - he got very emotional on hearing Padmé’s death just like he would as Anakin. Vader isn’t some kind of demon possessing Anakin - Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything and he isn’t holding back as he did as a Jedi. It sounds very poetic to state both Anakin and Padmé died on the same day but Anakin truly didn’t though. Anakin lived on for years and died a redeemed man on the death star. The ROTS novelization supports this and it was approved by Lucas so it’s authentic to me.

And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.

That it was all you. Is you.

Only you.

You did it.

You killed her.

You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself …

I do think it was Anakin who choked Padmé on Mustafar even though some people like to blame it on “Vader”. Anakin was unhinged on Mustafar but even in the beginning of ROTS, he was beginning to show some aggression. Though people complain the first part of ROTS is slow and too much happens in the latter half and he falls too suddenly, that’s not the case. This moment has been building up from the very first movie to the first half of ROTS. The fall isn’t just that one action of attacking Mace Windu, he was gradually falling to the dark side for years starting from his mother’s death and he only made the actual decision in the rumination scene. That’s when he finally sheds a tear and makes the conscious decision to join the dark side.

For the record, I think conflict has always been a part of Anakin Skywalker. The prequels portray him in a negative light, particularly in the last two films. Anakin in the movies is a very, very flawed individual and even meant to be unlikable at times. He struggles with his emotions, he struggles to communicate with others and he struggle to fit in the order. I wouldn’t say he was mentally stable either - he could be unpredictable and his actions depend on his mood. But the movies also show the good aspects of him, especially about people he cared about. He even starts off as a kid with a good heart. The conflict and his flaws cause him to fall to the dark side and his good qualities (like selflessness and loyalty when it comes to family) ultimately redeem him. 

So I don’t think “Anakin” was the good side of him and “Vader” was the dark side. Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything he cared about and since he is not a Jedi anymore he is no longer required to hold back on anything. Ambition and desire to rule the galaxy is often associated with “Vader” but I think people forget Anakin was just as ambitious and in ROTS being denied the rank of Master deeply upsets him and increases his resentment towards the Jedi. He admitted that he wanted more in ROTS even though he knows he shouldn’t. He also told Padmé in AOTC that he would prefer dictatorship over democracy so it’s not like his ideals changed either. Vader until he discovered he had a son had no interest in ruling the galaxy. Later on he essentially offered Luke the same choice he gave Padmé on Mustafar. From the conversation in AOTC, it seems he’s more dissatisfied with the system and being from a lawless and harsh world he sees dictatorship as the solution. While he doesn’t want to actively take part in it, he wants to enforce the system which is exactly what he does later on (and perhaps he preferred leaving the actual ruling bit to Padmé or Luke). I don’t see Vader as “evil” - I mean the only times he killed people were for failure and he did keep Admiral Piett alive since he proved to be competent. Vader in OT (when Luke isn’t concerned) is just doing his job and punishing inefficient people who aren’t letting him do his job. He only serves the emperor and does his bidding. After Luke rejects his offer, Vader still plans to seek him out but in ROTJ his resolve definitely grew weaker and it’s more like he’s imploring him to reconsider than being forceful. 

Anakin as we have seen in AOTC is very much capable of mass murder (and confessed that he felt they deserved it) so should he really be defined as the good side? You could even argue as Vader he killed people for legitimate reasons whereas Anakin killed defenseless people when he was blinded by rage. And even in ROTS he kills Dooku as revenge. I’m not saying Anakin is evil (that would be grossly oversimplying things); I am saying he was a complex character. The reason why he turned out the way he is has already been explored in the prequels but I also believe it’s a combination of nature and nurture. Anakin as a child has a good heart, wants to help others and free the slaves but in TPM script/novelization he lashes out at a Rodian who claims he won the race by cheating, meaning he didn’t handle accusation very well. It might be dismissed as a childish reaction but we see he struggled to control his temper in later years as well. A person has both good and bad qualities and that’s the case with Anakin here, though his negative traits were expressed more. But the prequels are all about exploring his downfall so it was necessary to highlight them. 

Anakin to me was never a “hero” who fell to the dark side due to circumstances; he was a complex character who made some hard choices. If the roles were reversed and Padmé was the Jedi with Anakin’s life at risk, I don’t think she would go that far to commit murder. Sure Palpatine is very manipulative but at the same time he understood that it was in Anakin’s nature to be manipulated very easily. You need to have some form of fear, insecurity and resentment in you for someone to utilize them. 

I blame TCW, Rebels and the fanboyish Marvel comics for dissociating Anakin from Vader. “Anakin Skywalker was weak, I destroyed him” again makes him very one-dimensional than accepting the fact that people can be morally complex. Not to mention the Marvel comics’ tendency to make him react violently and unnecessarily ruthless to prove he isn’t Anakin drastically reduces his character depth for me. It may also have to do with the fact that movie Anakin was not well-received so they are trying to distance him from Darth Vader, whom fanboys worship. Anakin’s story is incomplete without Vader - he made a choice to embrace the dark side and sacrifice his morality so like the tragic hero he is, he has to suffer and face the consequences for his actions. Similarly, Vader’s story is incomplete without Anakin - without Anakin he is a faceless man. Sure he’s mysterious but without his past we would not know what a complex character he was or sympathise with him.

If Vader wasn’t really Anakin, he wouldn’t have felt remorse for his actions or believe it was too late for him. If he wasn’t Anakin he wouldn’t refer to Luke as his son and if he was so desperate to erase any trace of Anakin, he would have definitely killed Luke as he was a reminder of his past. It was Vader who saved Luke in the end and while it is fine to figuratively say “Anakin was back”, taking it literally undermines his sacrifice. It takes a lot to come back from the dark side, face your demons and after being that way for decades, attempt to redeem yourself when you believe you’re far too gone. He redeemed himself as an old man after a long life full of sorrow and regrets, which also sounds much better than saying “he was evil no longer” and that “Anakin was back”. It makes everything seem black and white and the prequels were essentially all about exploring the gray area. Luke didn’t even know “Anakin” and really where was Anakin when “Vader” cut off his hand? Or fought him? Vader’s inner struggle was between accepting he was far too gone and going on as he did for years, and accepting change, letting it go and forgiving himself for his son’s sake - not a struggle between two personalities fighting to take control. If they were different personalities, Anakin wouldn’t have almost all of Vader’s qualities; he wouldn’t be morally conflicted both as Anakin and Vader. George said the reason why he later replaced his force ghost as a younger version was because he stopped being Anakin after he fell to the dark side and I have to say that’s the only time I disagree with George because Anakin in prequels still had dark tendencies so I do believe Vader never stopped being Anakin hence the original version with the old force ghost made more sense to me and the new version does rob some of the depth from his character. I’m sure George has his reasons - he might have wished to preserve the black and white simplicity of the OT but after the complexity of the prequels, it seems more appropriate for the saga to have a more imperfect, realistic ending. In retrospect, it seems to me they are very much the same person when you study his personality and consider his whole life, which was full of ups and downs.

[ramajmedia]

The Rise of Skywalker: 10 Best Palpatine Moments So Far

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’s December release date is edging closer, with anticipation beginning to rise. And while fans can’t wait to see Rey and Kylo Ren face off again, the movie’s decision to bring Sheev Palpatine back into the fold over 30 years on from his apparent death in Return of the Jedi is what has set tongues wagging among even the most critical of viewers.

RELATED: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: 10 Showdowns We Want To See

How Palpatine will return is a mystery, but there’s no denying he’s the best bad guy in Star Wars history. With that in mind, we now take a look at his top 10 moments throughout the franchise so far, explaining our choices as we go along.

10 The Grooming Begins

Palpatine knew Anakin Skywalker was strong with the force when he meets his future apprentice during 1999’s Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. Anakin is just a child at this point, but having already excelled at Podracing and helping the Republic tackle the Trade Federation, he was certainly no ordinary boy. And Palpatine begins his charm offensive towards Jake Lloyd’s character during this film.

Right at the very end, Palpatine says "we will watch your career with great interest", suggesting he had his heart set on making the teenager his apprentice right from the very off. The fact he says it with a mischievous smile, too, shows that he was confident in being able to transform Anakin into an evil Sith Lord. The grooming begins.

9 Starting the Clone Wars

With Padme Amidala going into hiding during Attack of the Clones following two unsuccessful attempts on her life, it’s left to Jar Jar Binks to act as her eyes and ears within the Senate. While Jar Jar is admittedly kind, he leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to brains and, with him in charge, Palpatine’s plot against democracy is able to take off.

Jar Jar ends up giving Palpatine more powers and he uses those to commence the Clone Wars right at the very end of the movie. This allows him to continue pitching both the Republic and their enemy forces against each other, until the war would come to be a distraction while he carried out his dastardly plan to rule the galaxy.

8 Telling Anakin to Kill Count Dooku

At the start of Revenge of the Sith, Anakin Skywalker is hellbent on rescuing Palpatine from the clutches of Count Dooku who, besides kidnapping his father figure, had chopped the Jedi’s hand off during a showdown on Geonosis during Attack of the Clones.

Anakin and Dooku face off again and, when Kenobi is taken out of the battle, Skywalker embraces the dark side and allows his rage and anger to guide him to victory. He stops short of murdering his enemy when he manages to cut both of Dooku’s hands off but Palpatine, menacingly, urges him to do the deed. He duly does and it’s another key moment in Anakin’s slide towards the dark side.

RELATED: Star Wars: Kylo Ren's 10 Best Moments (So Far)

7 Murdering the Jedi

Prior to Revenge of the Sith, we’d never ever seen Palpatine engage an enemy in lightsaber combat. After all, being so powerful and having force lightning in his weapon's repertoire, why would he ever need to draw a crimson blade? Well, it turns out in the final chapter of George Lucas’ prequel trilogy he’s actually sublime at fighting as well.

When confronted by Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin he doesn’t flinch. And he slays Kisto, Kolar, and Tiin with minimal fuss, dispatching them as if they were younglings rather than established members of the Jedi council. He then proceeds to have a big duel with Windu and shows another of his best qualities...

6 Manipulating Anakin Skywalker

It looks as if Windu is going to murder Palpatine, despite it not being the Jedi way. Samuel L. Jackson’s character believes it’s too dangerous to leave a person with as much sway and influence as the Sith Lord live and is about to slice through the dark side user,  before Anakin Skywalker steps in to lob his hand off.

Palpatine manipulates Anakin. He pretends to be a weak old man and references Skywalker’s marriage to Padme Amidala, a secret unknown by the Jedi. Ultimately, the conflicted Republic hero chooses to back the Sith Lord due to the fact he can save the person he loves most from dying and this is the scene where Darth Vader is figuratively born.

RELATED: Star Wars: Rey's 10 Best Moments (So Far)

5 Battling Yoda

Palpatine is Emperor and a man very much on top when Yoda pays him a visit in his Senator’s office. The little green Jedi shows his discontent for the Sith Lord by mercilessly knocking out one his guards and proceeding to fight his enemy with the sake of the galaxy on the line.

And the Sith Lord loves it. He engages Yoda in a fight using both his lightsaber and force lightning, eventually overcoming his opponent and living to fight another day. He’s pure evil within the sequence, goading the Jedi and expressing a confidence that his new apprentice, Darth Vader, would go on to eclipse. His happiness is short-lived, however, when he senses Anakin's imminent downfall on the lava planet of Mustafar.

4 The Smile

Nothing points out someone's evil nature like smiling at the misfortune of others. And Emperor Palpatine does exactly that, allowing his lips to form a menacing grin when he informs Darth Vader that his wife Padme, despite his vow to save her life, had died following his sudden attack on her.

This scene gives us chills - and the theories that arose afterward are partly to blame. Some believe that Palpatine actually drained Padme’s life in order to ensure Anakin's survival, who had sustained a damaging defeat at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar. Whether this is true has never been clarified, but the smile, whatever it means, is certainly a symbol of villainy.

3 Goading Luke Skywalker

For most of the original trilogy, Palpatine is rarely seen with Darth Vader. However, he is introduced in The Empire Strikes Back before returning for a prominent role during Return of the Jedi.

At this point, Palpatine tries to turn Luke Skywalker against his father. He wickedly goads Luke, telling him that his friends are destined to die on the planet of Endor where the Rebel Alliance is facing off against the Empire and their thousands of Stormtroopers. He also insists that it’s Luke’s destiny to take the same path as his father, lauding the fact he’s been able to keep Vader by his side for so long. While it doesn’t work, it’s certainly additional proof of his wicked ways.

RELATED: Star Wars: 6 Best Sequel Trilogy Characters (& 4 Worst)

2 His Death

While we know Emperor Palpatine will be in The Rise of Skywalker one way or another, he definitely seems dead at the time of writing. And his demise, suffered at the hands of Darth Vader during Return of the Jedi, ranks as one of the most iconic scenes in Star Wars history.

It’s the moment where Vader, arguably the most iconic character within the whole franchise, changes sides. For years he’d worked as Palpatine’s puppet but the sight of his master inflicting such pain and suffering on Luke is what ultimately convinces him to take action, throwing the cackling bad guy down the chute of the Death Star and restoring peace to the galaxy as a result.

1 His Laugh In The Trailer

Disney really, really needs Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker to deliver when it releases later this year. The Last Jedi was good critically but was panned by audiences to such an extent that many viewers stayed away when Solo: A Star Wars Story hit theatres just mere months later. The common consensus among fans at this moment in time is that, if the final movie of the sequel trilogy flops, all three movies will be remembered as one, big, waste of time.

But Palpatine’s laugh heard at the end of The Rise of Skywalker teaser trailer, has got people interested again. That distinctive cackle was so unexpected, but so welcome, that Disney may end up saving the sequel trilogy after all. Only time will tell.

NEXT: Star Wars: 6 Rise of Skywalker Rumours That Could Be Legit (& 4 We Think Aren't)

source https://screenrant.com/rise-of-skywalker-best-palpatine-moments/

[bettsfic]

for the ask thing star wars

ohhh boy so i rewrote the first six movies in my head a while back. here’s a summary:

phantom menace: remove midichlorians. make qui-gon’s interest in anakin pure conjecture based on his perception of the force. let him rescue shmi and take her to coruscant where she can live safely and complicate the plot later on. eliminate jar-jar as a character and replace with a comedic relief that can carry a bit of weight but not so much that he ends up being the weak link that destroys the republic.

attack of the clones: do not kill shmi. let anakin rely to heavily on her emotionally so that it conflicts with his jedi teachings, as well as his interest in padme. uncover that anakin’s father is actually darth plagueis, who, in an effort to defy his apprentice palpatine whom he knew would one day overpower him, seduced a young girl from X planet who had a strong force presence and had a child with her. anakin now feels the stirrings of betrayal and a conflict in his self-perception -- now his allure to the dark side is more than the council’s fear of him. 

revenge of the sith: slow-burn the downfall a bit more. in the interim between aotc and rots, anakin has had time to steep in the allure of the dark side. he finds out his wife is pregnant and is overcome with fear of the council finding out. aided by palpatine’s ridicule of the republic, anakin begins questioning the teachings of the jedi order and wonders if the separatists are in fact the right path for him. in pregnancy and with the declining republic, padme becomes depressed which anakin blames himself for, and he no longer has the support of his mother. obi-wan is his only friend and he begins questioning his loyalty to him as well. increasing spats with shmi, padme, and obi-wan lead him back to palpatine, who begins offering solace in the form of obedience. he sends anakin on increasingly morally questionable/gray missions. weaving together a final argument with his entire net of support in which they all distance themselves from him, anakin kills obi-wan. overwhelmed by guilt and with a fractured perception of self, he falls prey to the self-fulfilling prophecy of his villainy and goes to the dark side. padme has one child, leia, and leaves her to shmi to raise, who has gone into hiding on tatooine. 

a new hope: luke skywalker doesn’t exist. leia, bored with her upbringing on tatooine, seeks adventure. padme has been working for the rebellion. she finds herself with the death star plans and here the plot stays roughly the same except some characters are switched out. yadda yadda leia blows up the death star and saves the day.

empire strikes back and return of the jedi: condense into one film wherein we find out padme is leia’s mother, darth vader is her father, and together they confront him, and he sacrifices himself for the sake of good and to return the republic to glory. leia admits her begrudging love for han and everyone is happy. the end.

send me a tv show/book/fandom and i’ll say the top 5 things i’d change about it