#in a way that would kinds rub him thd wrong way

[marxistgnome]

The doctor and picard should form an unlikely friendship over the fact that they lived in a different world and formed a family and a life only to be removed from it to find that little time had actually passed and that they can never return and also because they have the same haircut.

[theendofeverafter]

Apple White can be both complex and a bad person (long post)

The Ever After High fandom seems to be split on whether or not Apple White is a good character. Her stans say yes, obviously. Her haters say no, obviously. And Royal and Rebel sympathizers seem to be split among party lines. And who can blame them?

The writers dropped the ball with her. She was first a naïve, pampered 15-year-old who only knew and cared about her own Happily Ever After (HEA for future references). Once she started rooming with Raven, she had to come to terms with the fact that not everyone wanted to follow their destinies. Some people point to her journey to prove that it was hard for her to unlearn what she’d been taught...but I’m not sure she should be absolved for this.

Exhibit A: True Hearts Day

Do y’all remember this? Apple was horrible in THD. Ashlynn Ella is a princess, yes, but her destiny entailed her beloved mother dying prematurely, Ashlynn being forced into servitude, and eventually her own untimely death. Not to mention that she’d have to break up with the one person who understood her (seriously, read EAH’s Once Upon a Time book). Apple, knowing all of this--save for Ashlynn’s romance--makes a big stink about it, even doom and glooming on Blondie’s MirrorCast about the relationship. What kind of friend does that? It was earlier on in the series, but Apple should have kept it to herself if she didn’t think Ashlynn and Hunter should’ve been together. Apple is the sole reason Ashlynn and Hunter break up. When they get back together at the dance, Apple makes the whole thing all about herself. She loudly proclaims in front of everyone that she still doesn’t approve of their relationship and that she thinks Ashlynn is “doing the wrong thing”. Naïve or not, this is objectively bad behavior.

Exhibit B: Thronecoming

This sealed Apple’s status for me and other people. She calls Raven selfish for putting her HEA in destiny (totally ignoring the fact that nothing bad has happened to them yet) and embarrasses her in front of everyone. After Grimm manipulates Raven into wanting to sign, Apple doesn’t even care about her friend’s conflicted feelings. She prances around school, telling anyone who will listen (and even those who don’t want to) that Raven is condemning herself to a life of misery. She practically breathes down her neck as Raven starts her speech. After it’s revealed that Grimm tricked Raven, Apple admonishes him for tricking Raven into signing. Hypocritical much? Apple has been pressuring Raven to sign for the whole series. She even tries her hand at manipulation in Dragon Games. She has no right to talk.

Moving away from Raven, Apple also treats Briar poorly. Briar is Apple’s BFFA, and thus she presumably knows that Briar is less than thrilled about her destiny. When the reality of a 100-year sleep hits Briar, she reneges on her commitment to signing the Book. Apple, of course, is less than supportive. “We all have our part to play” is her response to her friend’s anguish at losing all her friends and family. Callousness seems to be Apple’s MO at this point. The show then faltered--Apple should have been the one to rescue Briar. It would have helped reform her character a little. But no, Briar has to save her friend, meaning Apple is let off the hook for not empathizing with Briar.

Exhibit C: Spring Unsprung

Apple was under a spell for most of this movie, but I’ll say this: there’s a pattern in the show of Apple not receiving any consequences for endangering the fairytale world. Her mother is queen, so obviously there’s unequal treatment on display, but it just makes her look more like a spoiled princess and less like a good character.

Exhibit D: Way Too Wonderland

Apple doesn’t do too many horrible things in this movie, but there is one thing I was unimpressed with: Lizzie tells her not to tell Courtly about their mission, but Apple does so anyway because *she* knows better. Never mind the fact that Apple has never been to Wonderland before, whereas Lizzie is the literal future Queen of Hearts! Lizzie acted suspicious of Courtly the entire time she was at their table. The narrators had just finished telling us how smart Apple was--couldn’t she deduce that less is more when it comes to talking to a stranger?

Exhibit E: Dragon Games

Why there are still Apple stans after this movie astounds me to this day (I’m 75% joking). Yes, Apple was manipulated by her mother (who’s a terrible person in her own right). Yes, she was manipulated by the Evil Queen. But at this point, Apple is 16 going on 17. She doesn’t need to be told *not* to break the glass and let the Greatest Evil The Fairytale World Has Ever Seen out of prison. She cannot be let off the hook like this. Raven has made it very clear that she has a bad relationship with her mother. In fact, I’m pretty sure she hinted at some abusive elements of her childhood in the books. Apple knows this. And yet, she does her very best to force mother and daughter to be together again. She once again ignores her friend’s feelings for her own gain. What she did to Raven in this movie was disgraceful.

Here’s a list of terrible things she did in this movie:

Tried to manipulate Raven into being “eviler”; broke the glass and let the Evil Queen escape; pretended like the Queen was a student instead of alerting Headmaster Grimm; played along with her mother’s scheme, putting civilian lives in danger; purposefully knocked Darling off her dragon in *mid-air*, causing the girl to seriously sprain her ankle; said “at least my mom will be proud of me” to Raven, a horrible thing to say to the girl with an evil, abusive mother; gave a half-assed apology to Raven in the Enchanted Forest; and showed no sign of turning herself in for freeing the Evil Queen.

Apple truly regressed in this movie. That’s the fault of the writers, of course--although it did make for a great move.

Exhibit F: Epic Winter

Apple wasn’t really in this movie much, but here you can see her privilege on display: Faybelle is the only person who gets in trouble for helping the Evil Queen. Why isn’t Apple forced to scrub the school too? Without her, none of this would have happened.

CONCLUSION

Apple is a complex character, yes. My writeup hopefully illustrated that fact. And of course, she does nice things in the books, movies, and webisodes too (I think Way Too Wonderland showed her strengths as a helpful, smart princess). But bad people can do nice things. And I truly believe that unless she makes amends for what she did, apologizes to her friends, and stops being a staunch Royal, she is a bad person for the reasons stated above. Or maybe not bad, but rather “not a nice person”.

If you’re still reading, let me know what you think! These are all my opinions, and you’re welcome to completely disagree. I write an EAH fanfiction called The End of Ever After. It’s about the characters’ final year at the school. You can find it here on Archive of our Own:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/23941786/chapters/57576310

Be warned: Apple is characterized as I see her in that story, so if you disagree with my strong stance against her, it might rub you the wrong way! But I hope you like it anyway :)

[ikkleosu]

Why Carol’s smile is so meaningful

It’s not just carylers getting mega excited about a caryl moment, no matter how tiny, it is actually a really significant moment for several reasons:

1) Most importantly As @lookforastar said in their amazing post, Carol got to make a decision that worked out. She didn’t get emotionally punished for it. It came good. She followed her heart, saved Ezekiel and Jerry and risked losing the guns and it didn’t go horribly wrong. And so she could smile.

2) It makes sense of the whole “And yet I smile” motif that has been running through these episodes. Ezekiel’s smiles have been an act, a mask he is wearing to inspire his people, to give them hope. And Carol tried it on too, believing they had the upper hand because they had strategy. Melissa made clear Ezekiel’s optimism hadn’t rubbed off on her, she didn’t believe it, but she was faking it for the masses. And then we gave this moment, and Carol finally smiles for real. Because this isn’t a false hope or a self-delusion. She smiles because she truly has faith. She believes. Because she knows Daryl is going to take care of that gun situation. They have lost people, Ezekiel is injured, yet Carol smiles - because the one thing she has faith in just showed up.

3) And yes, Caryl reasons. Melissa said on the premiere Talking Dead that the hug was meaningful because they were about to go on a dangerous mission, and might never see each other again. So it’s very likely that seeing how badly things had gone and how many people they had lost that would be playing on her mind, what if they had lost everyone? What if she had lost Daryl too? And then with thd roar of an engine she got reassuramce. Daryl was alive. Daryl was exactly where he should be. I can only dream HOW comforting ybat sound was. A sound she knows so well, a sound that tells her Daryl is near, being Daryl, riding his bike like he should. In a moment where she was anxious and fearful for so many reasons, the one sound that would make her feel better rang in her ears.

4) It also gave me, as a caryler, reassurance. Firstly because it showed they hadn’t forgotten the Caryl connection, that they hadn’t wasted this opportunity to link them overtly (when they have in the past). But more significantly for me it reinforced the belief I had from 8x01 - that Daryl and Caryl’s connection would be a story or arc this season. Gimple repeatedly said everything in 8x01 was about setting up the stories going forward (Rick’s mercy arc, Maggie as leader, Morgan’s troubles, Tara’s ruthlessness etc), and the inclusion of the Daryl hug scene said to me that connection and the conversation they had would be something that would reoccur through this season. This little scene gave me hope that it is happening.

And on a kind of not really related not, I wanted to say something about the scene at the start of this week’s ep where Ezekiel gives his speech and all the Kingdommers crush round to touch Ezekiel as Carol stands back. I have seen opposing shippy interpretations of that scene, and frankly I think both are wildly incorrect interpretations.

That moment isn’t about Carol missing Daryl, thinking about hugging Daryl, or wanting to touch him rather than Ezekiel- it’s nothing about Daryl in any way.

But not is it about her admiring Ezekiel, looking at him in awe and falling for him. Frankly I don’t know how people can see that from Melissa’s spectacular acting (well, obviously I do know how they see that but you know what I mean…).

To me it is blatantly obvious that scene is the precursor to Carol’s irritation and alarm at Ezekiel’s over confidence and leading style. Here is a man reassuring these people they will win no matter what, ruling them up with no acknowledgement of what it us going to cost them. She is scared and horrified at the “cult of Ezekiel” she sees before her. Hence she repeatedly tries to make sure Ezekiel actually knows what’s going on, after this scene (but in previous esp. Typical Gimple timeline miximg).

This is all part of this arc that is unfolding, with Ezekiel going to pieces after their catastrophic losses and Carol being there to bring him back online - very likely I’m the same, way she tried to do with Rick in season 4. “You can be a farmer, Rick , but you can’t just be a farmer”. Carol is going to be there to help him realise that when you lead you gave to take the losses on your shoulders, as well as the wins, and your people need your reassurance and hope even more at those times. You can’t just shirk off the crown because it went wrong, because people died. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

And lastly, of I see one more person saying Carol saving Jerry and Ezekiel was out if character for her, I am gonna flip a table. Carol always picks saving people. She delayed leaving the group for months even though she was slowly being destroyed because she wanted to save her family, repeatedly. Carol who happily abandoned her plan to leave just to help find Beth. Carol who swore she couldn’t kill another person but took out the Saviours on the road because they were heading to ASZ.