#in general it's going to be crazy being a byler and seeing the duffers hint about stuff that only we understand

[chirpsythismorning]

The way they framed surfer boy pizza with Mike in s4 makes me optimistic about the prospects of smalltown boy agenda actually

[starsarefire824]

Everyone are having doubts do you still believe in byler endgame and if you do how you think will be? Not what do you wants but what really will happens knowing the duffer and how they write the show.

Hey anon, thank you for the ask!

As far as Byler goes, I'm still at the same point I've been this entire time...I honestly and truly believe that the writing has hinted at, suggested, alluded to it being real. I h lol ave personally been on the "wrong" side of a different major fandom (which I won't mention here)---ridiculed, called crazy, obsessive etc--to then have everything we had claimed from the beginning be proven true in the final act. If you want to know what I'm talking about you can probably figure it out from my profile or you can message me and I'll go on that rant in private lol.

Either way, my point is.....everything that is happening in this fandom...mimics that one entirely. It is a fandom that is dominated by a generally male, white, hetero-normative point of view. And so I think it's easy to lose hope, it's easy to give in to those people telling you that you're crazy for seeing what you're seeing.

But what it comes down to in the end is, most of us have been here since season 2. Most of us have been noticing the hints for years. And after season three, I'm not really sure what people are looking at if they are not seeing the complicated relationship that Mike has with El and Will. It is a canon fact that he cannot balance them emotionally. When one is in his life, the other is out. Season 3 proved that when they are both in his life at the same time, he cannot make it work. When he is paying attention to El, he is hurting Will. When he is paying attention to Will, he is hurting El. And this all comes to a head in season 4.

And season 4 is interesting to me because once again, El is (after a few episodes) quickly removed from Will and Mike's immediate story line. Mike, once again, ends up with Will in situations that make them work together. Situations that make them be emotionally vulnerable with each other. Situations that allow them to become closer.

I firmly believe that there is a reason, besides Mike being emotionally stunted by his family, that he can't say "i love you" to El. I think that the writers' had specific intentions when they wrote Mike's "love confession" to El as a direct response to Will's emotions. I firmly believe that if I was supposed to be rooting for El and Mike to be together, I as an audience member, would have been given a private, softly lit, romantically coded emotional scene between Mike and El post "2 days later". But we didn't. The softly lit, emotional, intimate moment we got? Was with Will.

Furthermore, El and Will have been directly paralleled since season one and since season 2 both of their storylines have directly revolved around Mike. And one character, Will, has been the one that has been show to need and want Mike in the way that he needs to be needed and wanted. Will has been the character that specifically benefits from Mike's attention and love. El's journey has always been for herself. It has always been figuring out where she belongs in the world and claiming her autonomy from Brenner (and Henry and many others).

As for how I believe the Duffer's will accomplish this? I have as good a guess as the rest of you. I am just a humble fan. But from the context clues that we've been given throughout the show....I have a hunch that El and Will will discover some sort of connection between the two of them. This connection will probably directly relate to the pull they feel towards Mike. I think that El will continue her journey from season 4 of self-discovery and standing on her own two feet, rejecting the men (people) around her who tell her they know what she wants/needs/desires. I think that Will will have his "coming of age". He will finally accept himself for who he is. I think it will be revealed that Will has some sort of direct connection to either the Upside Down or Henry himself. I think that he is the "cure" or the "key" to healing what has been broken. I really love the "wonder twin" idea that Will and El will work together to defeat Vecna.

And finally, I think that Mike, the knight, the paladin, the heart of the party....he'll finally realize where his heart truly lies. And Will, understanding that his love is reciprocated, that their love is true. I really think it will, in some way, (even if it's one small working part in the huge machine that is Stranger Things), help defeat the evil that has reigned over Hawkins for too long.

Maybe I'm too much of a romantic. But I'm gonna continue to believe it until I'm proven wrong. I will be the first to admit defeat as it comes, but for me....

There are just too many parallels, hints, subtext etc. for me to believe anything else at this point. I don't think the Duffer Brothers are pulling our leg, I don't believe they are trying to queerbait us, I don't believe they made this show for the people of Reddit and Facebook. I truly think, when they said it was for the "outsiders" and the "misunderstood" they meant it. And imo, Byler is a real part of that that will be made clear in the final act.

Let's hope we're right! <3

[doriandrifting]

So last night, me and my friends were having a byler debate. One is a melvin shipper, I am a byler shipper (obvi ig), and the other one WAS a byler shipper but as the events of last night unfolded, she has now declared she can see both sides and is more or less neutral (although she did still call Mike a fruit bowl) I also was able to get my melvin friend to see the side of "melvin is bad or trashy"

anyways- both my friend's main argument against byler is that they don't see how the writers of the show could work it in well by the end of the last season without it feeling rushed or forced and to make sense to the GA because-- most people dont look through hours of hints and proof.

basically how could the writers work byler into the plot with the alotted amount of time in order for it to feel r i g h t and make sense mainly to people who dont know as much about the little stuff as bylers do

Well I made a post about how I have a theory that the letter the ST writers posted that had all those blanks and they said was written on November 6th, 1983 and signed “Love_____” matches up with Mike writing a letter to Will. The letter starts by apologizing for not getting something done -> Mike wasn’t able to finish the Dnd campaign and it was Will who was stuck in limbo with the Demogorgon until they could finish the DnD game the next weekend. And Will told Mike the truth about his roll and seemed really upset about the 7. It makes sense that Mike would write an apology letter to Will. But he signed it “Love, Mike.” But he wouldn’t have even known how significant that phrase is to him in S1, which is why the Duffers make it so that he never gets to give Will the letter.

It is only after this season, where El emphasizes that he can’t write “Love, Mike” where Mike is aware what writing “Love, Mike” means. If Mike were to recover this letter—maybe like Nancy recovered her diary entries about not being that crazy about Steve in the Upside Down in S4–we would learn that alternatively Mike has always loved Will.

This takes away the feeling of it being rushed—it was inevitable, because it was already written the very first episode. That along with the Flickergate theory about Mike and Will causing the light to go off outside the garage in S1 by something they do in the Upside Down (stuck in November 6th 1983) would make their story have an inevitability. We all saw Mike in S1 notice that strange light go off after Will walked away. If they’re the ones who caused it, the audience will have to know that it was planned from the beginning. Now if I were to tell a person who hasn’t analyzed the show//understand the queer coding of Byler, they wouldn’t believe me right now, but if the Duffers bring it all back to that very first day, there’s no denying it once the general audience sees it.

agsjdjdkdjd this was so long—I wish you the best of luck in convincing your friends 😭

[deckerswheeler]

let’s break this down, shall we?

**disclaimer!! this is not meant to be an attack on this person! i am only going to be counterclaiming their points or explaining why they are incorrect. i do not mean any harm in this post**

1. “mike/el and mike/will do not parallel each other” this is incorrect. mileven and byler have been paralleled throughout the seasons. for example, when el is stuck in the void and the upside down, the camera zooms in on her and pans out as she screams for mike. the same thing happens when will is in the upside down on halloween after the bullies push him over. it has the same camera angles, same type of music, and the same idea. they both call for mike.

2. byler has groundwork. from season one episode one they have been seen as closer than the other boys. they spent almost the entirety of season two together. the crazy together scene, hand holding scene, and shed scene alone should set their relationship apart from their relationships with the other members of the party. neither mike nor will act that way with dustin, max, or lucas. mike literally said asking will to be his friend was the best thing he’s ever done. if their season two relationship doesn’t show you how much groundwork they have, i don’t know what else will.

3. how are byler shippers “blindly ignorant to how writing works”?? sorry, but last time i checked, stranger things isn’t just a base level “you get what you see” type of show. the duffers have clarified many times that they don’t write at the surface level. everything they do has a purpose. that means minute details that seem like meaningless, second-long clips, could be symbols or easter eggs. many mileven shippers, (not all but a lot), only tend to see what is put in front of them. when in reality, that’s not what stranger things is. if you aren’t reading between the lines or taking note of small details while watching, key aspects of the show could fly over your head.

4. this one is almost laughable. mileven has most definitely NOT been set up as romantic since episode one. first of all, mike and el didn’t even properly meet until episode two. and even then, mike was ready and willing to report her to social services! the only reason why he kept her for so long was because once he found out about her powers, he knew there was a chance of finding will again. he called her a weapon halfway through the first season, i don’t think that’s very romantic. yes, they became close friends early on, but there was not ANY romantic coding until the episode with their first kiss!! obviously mike developed a crush on el, she’s the first girl that ever gave him attention. not only that, but he was living through the trauma of maybe losing his closest friend forever! he was projecting those feelings onto el, while el literally thought they would be like siblings until mike kissed her-- she had no clue it was even romantic.

5. saying mike and will have zero romantic subtext is just plain bullshit. i stated a lot of it in point 2, but there is so much more. in season 3 for example, mike basically outs will during their fight. (some people like to claim that mike was referring to will’s immaturity, but there are so many other ways they could’ve phrased that. like i already stated, the duffers claim nothing they do is accidental, so why would they make that line so vague? it was referring to will being gay. along with all of will’s other gay coding throughout the series, i.e. lonnie calling him the f slur, troy and his friends calling him q***r and a fairy as well as making fun of him for being gay, hopper acting grossed out by will being gay and asking joyce “is he?”) then, mike tries to apologize and travels all around hawkins in the pouring rain!! just to find will. and don’t even get me started on the “not possible” scene... if y’all don’t see the CLEAR flirting in that scene,,,,,, i got news for you lol

6. saying that byler shippers just like “fetishizing handsome white boys” is absolutely disgusting and a gross generalization. i assure you that that is NOT the reason why we ship byler. it’s more or less because we are sick of seeing solely straight couples rushed into a relationship on little to no foundation or build-up and honestly makes no sense when you think about it (cough cough mileven), when there is a relationship with 10x more development right there that isn’t canon simply because it is not heterosexual. we also ship byler because it is a breath of fresh air to see young gay/bi characters and a healthy mlm relationship, if byler became canon it would make thousands of kids so happy who just want to see themselves on the screen! aside from that, we ship byler because of the countless hints, coding, potential, etc, the show has provided.

7. finally, telling us we need to “use a brain cell,” calling us delusional, saying we’re “bending the narrative,” is just mean. there was no reason to make personal attacks towards the people who ship byler. i see people shipping mileven every day and i am not calling them delusional or stupid because they choose to ship it. people are free to interpret the show however they like and ship whatever they want. if anything, you’re the one who is denying canon by acting like mike and will have no foundation or meaningful relationship. also, we’re not “pretending it’s inevitable”??? no one knows how the duffers are going to write the show. mileven could be canon now, and break up later. byler could happen in season 4-5, and it might not. no one knows, so the fact that you felt the need to bash byler shippers for their own opinion and interpretation of the show is pretty sad.

**again... i respect all ships, and i am not trying to attack this person. if i seem harsh it’s because they were SOOO disrespectful in their post towards byler shippers. i know not all mileven shippers are like this, but i wanted to clear up some of this one’s points and share my point of view. i also don’t agree with their behavior and how they addressed people with a different view than them, so i couldn’t let it go.**