#in my canon they had a huge fight at the end of the HW patches and aren’t on speaking terms in SB but. narratively. yelling.

[consulaaris]

i am having….. so many zori/thancred thoughts rn

[mariyekos]

As Azure Fades Analysis, Part 1

Azure Dragoons: Aging and the Impact of the Eyes

@scrollsfromarebornrealm made an EXCELLENT analysis post about the newest short story from the official FFXIV sidestory website, and in my attempt to respond to it I ended up with something so long it probably won't fit in a single post. So, I decided to split it up before i hit the image/text limit.

And yeah, in case you didn't know there's a new official FFXIV short story out relating to Estinien and Haldrath. Go check it out, because it is AMAZING.

First things first, as is typical of me: I will be discussing both canon and headcanon here. I will do my best to make it very clear when I am discussing something explicitly stated or heavily implied in canon, and when I am discussing headcanon. Some of this will come from the new short story, but I will also make references to the whole game, so get ready for sources galore!

Introductory Sources:

(Above: from the new story)

(Above: from the quest Heart of Ice)

(Above: from the sidequest Thar be Dragons)

Hraesvelgr's Line, and the Lifespan of Elezen

Alright with my sources out of the way, I actually interpreted the new story and Hraesvelgr lines differently! First, when I read Hraesvelgr's line, I took it as him saying that Estinien would be old and unable to effectively fight by age 50, rather than that Estinien would be dead by then.

Elezen live to be 100-120, but Edmont and Charlemald use old face models by age 56 I believe, so it's not like they stay spring chickens forever. I'm taking the fact that Haldrath and Aureniquart have young faces as the devs wanting them to be recognizable, or maybe aging a little more gracefully. It's been 20 years, so I would put them at mid 40s, maaaaybe mid 50s since Estinien and Aymeric are 32 in HW, which means 32 is a perfectly good age to still be fighting. If elezen live to 100-120, then 45-55 could definitely fit for "a brawny man well into his middle years."

In canon, it is heavily implied if not outright confirmed that transformed heretics can live for centuries (see: Thar be Dragons). In my long-established headcanon, Estinien ends up aging slower because of Nidhogg's power. In that HC, Hraesvelgr doesn't necessarily know of the impact that Nidhogg's Eye had on Haldrath, since Hraesvelgr basically peaced out after handing Nidhogg his own Eye. This new story is making me re-evaluate that HC... In Canon, the actual Eyes of Nidhogg are gone at this point, but Estinien spent some time a few days according to Lucia, but it's months/patch time in my HC again possessed by Nidhogg with the Eyes in his flesh, and there's no denying there have been lasting effects. Going purely on canon, Estinien can do the clone thing now, and is a huge powerhouse. The dragons recognize the bit of Nidhogg that resides within him too. Stuff like scales is pure HC that I happily accept but acknowledge isn't canon as far as anything we've seen. But imo that could partly the modelers being lazy since that would require excess effort .

(Above: Estinien making clones, à la Nidstinien. Source, with video)

Haldrath, Estinien, and How They Age

Now, Estinien's lifespan might not be impacted at all by what happened with Nidhogg. But since heretics can live centuries, and we know Estinien has been impacted somewhat...I think it's possible Hraesvelgr's assessment about Estinien being spent by 50 was wrong. Especially if we go with the idea that in his isolation he didn't know what happened to Haldrath beyond just that Haldrath had the Eyes (general had, no knowledge of the merge). Plus, his "spent" assessment came before Estinien ended up melding with the Eyes. If we go with the assumption that Hraesvelgr does know about what the Eye did to Haldrath, it could also be that Hraesvelgr told Estinien he would be old and infirm by 50 because he assumed Estinien would get rid of the Eye before it had any lasting effects on him, like all the other Azure Dragoons. By getting rid of it, he'd get old too.

(Above: from the new story).

Haldrath was still able to slay dragons during his middle years, after all. He collapsed because of Nidhogg's growing influence. Which admittedly could've been better-able to get him because maybe in aging he was growing weaker, but I think you could say it was more prolonged exposure to Nidhogg making him vulnerable than aging-induced-weakness.

(Above: Thordan upon revealing Haldrath in the quest Heavensward)

In the new story, Estinien mentions Haldrath's aging corpse. In the quest Heavensward, Archbishop Thordan VII makes reference to the body's lack of decay. This preservation is why I HC that maybe Estinien would end up aging slower- maybe the aether would be enough to maintain him as he is, just as Haldrath was. Now we didn't take of Haldrath's armor so who knows what lies beneath, but what I find interesting is that his corpse apparently did not change. He most definitely didn't turn into a full-on dragon. He's still an elezen (albeit with an eye in his chest, which is notably smaller than the Eyes bound to Estinien! I really wonder if there is meant to be a lore reason, like the Eyes tunneling deeper into the flesh over time, or if that was just a visual thing to make possessed!Estinien seem creepier). It could be that Haldrath neither decayed nor transformed because Nidhogg's power could only transform living beings, not dead ones. Haldrath's body never rose on its own to return to Nidhogg, after all.

Dragon Eyes and Consciousness/Control

Which brings into question how much consciousness is afforded to the Eyes... Vrtra can operate Varshahn and his true body separately, but given the scene when he freezes as Varshahn while he calls to Azdaja with his true body, maybe Dragons can only instill consciousness in one Eye-containing vessel at once. Haldrath kept both Eyes, even if only one merged to him (and why only one...? just to make sure the story could happen, or maybe because Nidhogg was weakened by the attack and only one could...?). Estinien had both Eyes when possessed too. When Nidhogg speaks through the Eye to Estinien in the lv50 DRG quest, we don't see his true body (with Hraesvelgr's Eye) and whatever that's doing. Maybe Nidhogg can only keep his consciousness in one place/with one Eye (so it's rendered moot when both Eyes are together).

Maybe dragons can only use their Eyes operate living beings (Varshahn is made by alchemists, so he's special). Maybe there was some sort of seal on Haldrath's dead body that kept Nidhogg from making it rise and deliver the other Eye unto him, even after Berteline/the next Azure Dragoon(s) held the Left one. Maybe he just didn't feel like going through the trouble to reclaim it because he could wage his war perfectly well with Hraesvelgr's Eye and wasn't going for extermination/didn't need full power until HW. Maybe the writers just needed an Eye in Haldrath's body and let the reason for Nidhogg not reclaiming it slide to make an awesome story moment.

(Above: comparison of Eye sizes. Also Estinien's Eyes move)

Summary on Aging, HC and Canon

In any case! Back to canon: 1) Transformed heretics can live for centuries. 2) Haldrath's body ceased to age and did not decay after the Eye merged to him. 3) The Eye was able to remain in Haldrath's body for a thousand years and was still functional when it merged to Estinien (it wiggles in the CSs).

HCs from this: maybe Estinien will age slower and be able to maintain his form. Maybe he will gradually be transformed into a dragon or more draconic being over time. Even a drop of dragon's blood- supposedly- is enough to transform an Ishgardian, and Estinien got fully blasted with Dragon Essence upon possession. We even see a middle form during the Nidstinien fight! Nidhogg's shade (dragon form) might just be an aetheric projection rather than flesh. But back to HC, I interpret that as Nidhogg attempting to actually warp flesh, before going to his Shade and then returning to the form that his body- Estinien's body- recognizes best as its own.

...All of this is a really long way to say that I don't think Estinien would necessarily be dead by 50. Well. Unless we take it with the idea that Nidhogg would have taken full control of him, and that the "youthful vigor" he would lose would be his ability to reject Nidhogg's influence before being lost as Haldrath was. For some reason that did not occur to me until this very moment, over an hour into writing this, despite the fact that that was probably what scrollsfromarebornrealm was implying... And/or that scrollsfromarebornrealm just meant that Estinien would probably get himself killed by 50 because yeahhhh, that man did NOT seem to care about himself enough to be safe and survive that long. Especially if aging meant he grew weak and then said weakness had him fall in battle (rather than Nidhogg's corruption straight up killing him by 50. Which is also an intriguing possibility).

"Becoming the Azure Dragoon is a death sentence."

The quote above comes directly from @scrollsfromarebornrealm's post. While I'm not looking at it as dragoons being too old/weak to fight by 50, I do wholeheartedly agree with the idea that (nearly) all Azure Dragoons die young. Partially because of the dangers of their job, partially because of the risk of Nidhogg's influence.

First, Alberic. Alberic retired 20 years ago and he's fine! But two things: 1) Alberic was 24 when he retired (don't feel like taking a picture, but in my Encyclopedia Eorzea it says he's 44, and it's been 20 years). 2) Alberic is a hyur. Haldrath held onto BOTH eyes of Nidhogg for 20 years before he could no longer handle it, and drank of Ratatoskr's aether. Most Azure Dragoons were probably Elezen given the racial distribution of Ishgard. Alberic, a hyur, does not bear elezen/dragon blood (as long as he's purely hyur, which I am assuming he is). In addition, he probably only had the Eye for a handful of years at most, since he was only 24 when he rejected it. It makes sense that he would walk away from Nidhogg with relatively few impacts. He didn't die in battle and he firmly rejected the Eye when it threatened to take control of him. I think retirement for an Azure Dragoon (followed by at least two decades of survival) is EXTREMELY uncommon in Ishgard's history.

(Above: from the new story)

A few things here. I'll start with the point I was trying to make: "While the Eye lent him strength, in harboring Nidhogg's undying malice, it was also slowly corrupting his being. Ere long it would finally consume him..." In other words, the Eye is most definitely a death sentence. It will kill Haldrath eventually. Possessing an Eye long term- at least as a part of one's own flesh, though since it seems possessing it long term binds it to the Azure Dragoon's flesh you could just shorten that to "long term" only- will corrupt the Azure Dragoon to the point of no return. The only options left at that point seem to be Getting Consumed And Becoming Nidhogg's Puppet (Estinien) or Being Killed As To Not Become A Puppet (Haldrath). It was too late to reject the Eye, which is what Alberic did to make his escape.

Back into HC territory, I now want to pick up an old fic of mine about a previous Azure Dragoon basically having to be put down upon being too far gone due to Nidhogg's Corruption. Not to the level that the Eye melded to their flesh as it did Haldrath and Estinien, but mental corruption, and maybe attacks like the one Haldrath has. Ishgard would be wary of another Azure Dragoon being claimed by the Eye not only because they don't want Nidhogg to have a new pawn, but also because they can't afford to lose the second Eye with the first still bound to Haldrath. They also probably wouldn't want news of the Azure Dragoon's corruption leaking to the public, since the Azure Dragoon is supposed to be a hero and that would be Not Good for the Azure Dragoon's image. So maybe Ishgard kills Azure Dragoons who are too far gone (whether they're actually too far or whether the people in power are paranoid about it).

A different HC I'm not sold on but thought of is that the stress of being Azure Dragoon could lead to an early grave. Yes Dragon blood does extend the lives of transformed heretic, but it could be that without the transformation, the stress of it all causes damage to the insides of Azure Dragoons in a way that prematurely ages them and/or just causes them to die young. Alberic at 44 has some white hair. Which 44 year old men can definitely have without anything bad happening, don't get me wrong! But that could be a fun HC interpretation of that.

So yeah. I HC that Azure Dragoons die young as based on 1) them potentially needing to be killed to avoid falling to Nidhogg, 2) their jobs being so dangerous they're killed in battle (and the Eye retrieved) or die from wounds, 3) the stress of the Eye causing irreparable damage that leads them to die young even after relinquishing the Eye. Plus, as @scrollsfromarebornrealm points out, Valeroyant died 2 years after fending off Nidhogg. We don't have many named Azure Dragoons so even one early death is suspect!

Haldrath and the Two Eyes

(Above: from the new story)

Yes, one of these is a repeat of the one above. But I really want to empahsize something in this because my eyes (haha) are SO wide at this. Haldrath refers to an Eye, singular, being what is corrupting him. Not the Eyes plural. And only one of the eyes has fused to his body, which matches what we know. At first I thought that maybe he only had one or something. Yet he tells Berteline that he will "entrust [Nidhogg's] eyes" plural to her.

So this is odd. Haldrath only mentions drawing on a singular Eye, and only a singular Eye has fused to his body. But he entrusts both to Berteline. My thought here is that maybe he stopped drawing on the power of the second one once the first fused to him, unwilling to give up the strength afforded by the first, but wary of drawing on the second lest it fuse to him too. I do wonder if he thought Bertiline would be able to pry Nidhogg's Right Eye from his corpse (in addition to presumably taking the Left Eye from him, which is the one Estinien has), or if when he said he was entrusting the eye to her he meant he was entrusting his dead body (containing the Eye) to her to...keep away from Nidhogg, or something. In the Echo Flashback to Haldrath following the events of The Aery, we can see Haldrath holding both Eyes and then storing them. It's heavily implied (if not outright stated) that Haldrath never met with any of the Knights Twelve again, save Aureniquart on his deathbed, so I assume Haldrath would've also had the Left Eye on him at his death even if only the Right had fused to him.

But yeah. Haldrath says he's been corrupted by One Singular Eye. It could be that the second just isn't mentioned here because it hasn't fused to him, and maybe I'm reading too far into this (see: me going feral over Estinien saying "Then you and Alphinaud threw my eyes off a bridge, and I’ve never known peace since."). Yet he must possess two to entrust both to Bertiline. Interesting.

I do wonder if anyone ever attempted to pry the Eye from Haldrath's body. It is possible they thought he was a Holy Object and didn't want to disturb him so never tried. It's possible that those who knew of him were worried they might also be corrupted if they touched the Eye, so they didn't want to try. It's possible they tried and failed. Who knows. But it seems like the Eye remained undisturbed within Haldrath's ageless corpse until Thordan used Primal Powers to fuel his ascendance to a God-King.

End Note

I honestly don't know what to say anymore other than Wow.

This one short story has blasted my mind open. I'm not sure how many words this giant essay is, but it's been about 3 hours so I think i should stop for now, despite the fact that I've hardly even begun to talk about some of the most intriguing parts of the short story! (See: Estinien being able to see Haldrath's memories and attributing it to Nidhogg, a more in-depth analysis of corruption, being able to hear Nidhogg and him sounding like the wind (hey remember that dragoon helmets are designed to make the sound of the wind going through it seem like a dragon scream, thank you levequest), whatever the hell was in that drink (I think it would be fascinating to explore it being an intentional flashback on the part of the Alchemists, using the blood they took from him...maybe fic worthy hmmmm), the parallels between Haldrath and Estinien losing their burning passion to fight, Aureniquart and the pain of being told to kill your liege-lord plus potential backstory there and some lines about loyalty...needless to say there's a lot more to talk about!)

So for now I am going to stop here. There's a lot to think about. Haldrath did not die in battle as I'd assumed, but due to the Eye's corruption. He entrusted the Eye to a successor, as Nidhogg had already begun to call out to others. He asked to be killed. This has big repercussions.

If you've read this whole thing, thank you! I hope my rambling was somewhat interesting. If you want to discuss anything here, reblog or reply and I would love to talk xD. I don't have every lore piece memorized, and I've definitely forgotten some things, so if I'm missing some crucial information I would be happy to know!!