#in which rachel expresses her sometimes complicated and occasionally unpopular and often shippy thoughts on suits

[tattooedsiren]

How do you feel about the Suits spin off?

I'm pretty indifferent tbh. Peeps who have been around for a long time know I was not thrilled with a lot of choices the show ended up making and the only thing keeping me interested at all was my beloved Harvey and Mike, which the new show presumably won't have. It would take A LOT to bring me back to that well and so far nothing has tempted me. I did enjoy Stephen Amell in Arrow and I can actually see him in that kind of role, and who knows maybe once the show releases previews it might end up interesting me. So yeah, honestly, I could go either way at this point. *shrugs*

[tattooedsiren]

"#this show lost its way when it forgot that this was the most important relationship on the show" oh man, this!! i cant pinpoint when suits changed from being about mike and harvey dealing with the situation theyd gotten themselves into, but at some point it did and you're so right. theres nothing wrong with a show evolving or shining focus on to other characters, but i stopped watching properly after s3/s4 bc it just wasnt the show i'd fallen in love with anymore and it made me sad ://

the other characters as they were set up in season one were so great. there was room for growth, sure, but for me they moved the characters and relationships too far from how they started and forgot who the lead characters and relationship was. they ruined great relationships and characters by making them romantic. man season one of that show was so great and it hurts how stupid it went.

[tattooedsiren]

SUITS

Favorite character Harvey (that lovable arsehole)Second favorite character Jessica (the one I get annoyed at least often lol)Least favorite character DonnaThe character I’m most like Honestly I can’t think of any I’m particularly like… feel free to tell me if I remind you of anyone..Favorite pairing Harvey/Mike, obviouslyLeast favorite pairing Harvey/Donna (if you have to retcon the ship that’s never a good sign)Favorite moment oh man, how do I choose? I’m gonna give you two moments (I can’t pick just one lol) that i love that I think get overlooked a lot. one, when Harvey pays for Mike’s rookie dinner. two, “do you trust me?” “that’s what I wanted you to know”Rating out of 10 season one gets a 10. season two gets an 7. every other season gets a 4.

[tattooedsiren]

Looking at the gifs of Harvey's pained expressions from 5.16 and 7.16, it seems quite obvious to me that, although Korsh may insist on "bromance" only (and that's IF he's feeling generous), Harvey is in love with Mike. It's also my belief that Gabriel has chosen to play Harvey as being in love with Mike.

I mean, you aren’t alone in your interpretation. I’ve seen a lot of people say this. 

Personally I’m not sure I buy it being Gabriel playing it as though Harvey is in love with Mike. I think he plays it more like Mike is the most important person in Harvey’s life - yes, even more than Donna. Like Mike is the person he loves most and he wants to protect and help him, always. 

Even though Gabriel knows about the shippiness I’m not convinced he’s playing it that way. And I’m okay with that, because Gabriel more than anyone else on this whole show gets that the most important relationship is Harvey and Mike and he absolutely plays that.

[tattooedsiren]

If you had the power to change *one* thing, only *one* thing about suits what would you pick?

I mean, it’s gotta be make Harvey/Mike canon right? lol. But if we’re talking things that are actually in the realm of possibility for the show, it would be to alter the tone. From season two onwards the show got dark and tense and I really missed the fun, light show in season one. So that’s what I’d change. Not have the tone be so full on because every episode someone was coming after one of the characters or the firm. I’d re-shift the focus back to the cases that had only incidental connections to the characters and didn’t directly involve them so there could be light and humour again.

[tattooedsiren]

mike and harvey was literally the focus of the show, their relationship, and how their dynamic evolved. everyone else is great, but I seriously stopped watching when they veered away from that

You didn’t miss much tbh.

[tattooedsiren]

I really share your thoughts about the suits finale. I was surprised that Mike's leaving was just a "fyi we're gone". Sadly I've seen this in many shows, an actor wants to leave and you think "well, they informed the writers early enough, they can season in some foreshadowing" and then the episodes continue on, like always, and the leaving part feels like an afterthought.

Exactly. And PJA and MM obviously gave the writers enough notice because there was foreshadowing. The bullshit game talking about moving to San Diego. Mike with all those ‘you’re gonna miss me one day’ comments. So they knew. And they still wrote that episode where their leaving was a throwaway line and half the characters weren’t even told onscreen. Absolutely terrible storytelling.

[tattooedsiren]

honestly all of the donna/harvey scenes are paralleled to mike/harvey scenes (running after donna = running after mike (in the first episode when mike quit! plus the when mike took the deal)) so i really don't know what korsh is wanting me to take away from these scenes

Exactly. Like how are we supposed to care about Harvey running to Donna after she resigned when he’s run after Mike like three times. I mean, it is literally a romantic trope. You can’t pretend it’s romantic when it comes to Donna but platonic when it comes to Mike. Fuck that.

[tattooedsiren]

One of the reasons why I can't ship Darvey ever is because the fans (not all but most) act as if Harvey owes Donna a relationship just because she worked and "loved" him for years. As if he doesn't have his own feelings; as if she couldn't have left him at any time but chose to stay at her own volition. It's really problematic if people genuinely believe that (person a) owes (person b) a relationship just because (person b) has pined for (person a) for years.

Yeaaah. No one owes anyone anything, especially romantic feelings. And I don’t know which is worse - the idea that Donna has been pining over Harvey since they met/slept together (which is what, over a decade), or that she has suddenly developed feelings but because of how long they’ve known each other and their close friendship it’s expected that Harvey reciprocate. Neither reading does either of the characters any favours.

Honestly one of the biggest failings in this show was retconning the Harvey/Donna relationship. It was so much better as ‘we had a moment that could’ve changed into something more but neither of us wanted it so we’re just awesome platonic bffs’. Instead we get ‘we’re bffs who have slept together and keep bringing up the fact that maybe we could be more while at the same time vehemently saying we don’t want to be together.’ Like wtf. That’s terrible writing. Who thought that was a good idea? 

They need to either commit to keeping them platonic and never bringing this up again or just getting them together. Which would suck, but for real at this point I think it’s probably better than having to hear about the possibility of it all the fucking time.

[tattooedsiren]

my watch has ended

I’ve said most of this before but it probably bears repeating.

I don’t begrudge PJA leaving (though I do slightly begrudge his hashtag use). I understand it. But this show makes no sense without him. And with half the original cast now leaving usa should’ve just done the right thing and ended the show.

I’m not here for how they are gonna end Mike and Rachel’s story line (though I’m not surprised) and I’m not here for a show without Harvey and Mike, what was supposed to be the core relationship on the show.

As many of you know I’ve been struggling with the show for a long time. I’m sad but honestly mostly relieved that I have that final push and can give it up. Because I hate myself a little I’m probably gonna watch the rest of the season, if only to see the inevitably heartbreaking scene of Mike and Harvey saying goodbye to each other, but unless something miraculous happens (unlikely) I won’t be coming back next season.

But thank you Suits. You changed my life in ways no other tv show ever has, and I’ll forever be grateful for that.

[tattooedsiren]

i'm kind of stupefied and not at all that d*rvey shippers are trying to insert donna into everything harvey's ever done which obviously isn't true. the writers are no better: remember when they made donna say something to jessica that basically gave her ownership of harvey hiring mike (which explains the post) seasons after the pilot? harvey is the one who told donna to let anyone impressive past her. she couldn't even tell that mike was telling the truth. mike's special or at least to harvey

Well I clearly don’t remember them having Donna say something to Jessica that gave her ownership otherwise I would’ve referenced it in my tags hahaha. And yeah, all Donna did was give Harvey a wink. That’s it. Hardly enough to claim responsibility for everything that happened afterwards.

But this show is the literal worst when it comes to retconning it’s own canon. Like what is the point of having flashbacks if it changes previous canon - they are supposed to enhance, not alter. Honestly as soon as they had the flashback showing Harvey and Donna sleeping together despite previously stating that they never had I lost all respect for the writers/showrunners.

[tattooedsiren]

This may be fairly obvious, but it seems that Suits went off the rails when romance was thrown into the show. The real strength in Suits was always in the friendships - obviously Harvey/Mike, but I've always enjoyed the friendship between Louis/Rachel, Louis & Katrina, Rachel & Donna, Mike & Donna, Harvey & Jessica, etc. Early season Harvey & Donna were fantastic until the writers decided to have Donna not so secretly in love w/ Harvey. I guess the point is Suits should have stayed as NoRomo

So true. There were some absolutely amazing friendships in this show until the writers decided to either forget about them or make them romantic. Seriously when was the last time we had a Louis/Donna scene, which is one of my fave friendships on this show. And these days even when there are friendship moments it’s about other romantic relationships (Rachel telling Louis he can bring Sheila to the wedding, Harvey and Mike having drinks and talking about Donna, Rachel and Donna talking about Harvey etc).

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I miss season one.

[tattooedsiren]

lmao at this point if donna and harvey get together now, it really looks like harvey is only doing it to cope with mike leaving. no hate to donna/harvey shippers but the narrative really paints it that way: harvey can't deal with mike being away from him for long periods of time (i.e. when he got that new job, prison, working at the clinic, etc.). the only person left would be donna.

Yesssss. I mean, the first time Mike and Rachel slept together it was because Mike was hurt over arguing with Harvey and Harvey leaving him. Harvey going to Donna in his grief over Mike leaving is the only acceptable way for them to get together. 

[tattooedsiren]

The Suits news has made me really sad, but I think it would have been worse at the end of season 2 when Suits was still a fun show. If you're looking for something to cheer you up, I recommend Schitts Creek. Currently has one of the sweetest gay romances going

I know I’m in the minority here, but I actually didn’t think season 2 was that fun. Apart from a few standout eps that was the beginning of the end for me. But having said all that, you’re right, it would’ve hurt much more earlier on, back before it deteriorated to it’s current form.

Oh man I have too many tv shows as it is to keep up with lol. But if I’m ever looking for something to watch I’ll keep it in mind. :)

[tattooedsiren]

thoughts on PJA possibly leaving Suits?

Yes. Thoughts. I have them.

So I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. I totally understand why he would want to. The show isn’t what it used to be, for one. And I’m sure he wants to free up his time to do other projects, presumably a mix of acting and directing and photography and whatnot. Plus, of course, he’s married now and probably doesn't want to spend half the year or however long it takes to film the show in another country away from his wife.

So I get it.

Having said all that, I really don’t know what’s going to become of the show if he leaves. This isn’t the same as Meghan or Gina leaving. PJA plays one of the two main characters. Sure, it’s an ensemble piece, but the show is anchored around the characters of Harvey and Mike and what the hell is the show gonna look like without Mike?

I assume if they both leave then they’ll have some story line about them getting married and moving away or something (ugh). And I know the door would be left open for PJA to return, like Gina’s been doing, but it wouldn’t be the same.

The show would be left with half of its original cast. Half. And you guys know I love Harvey, and have varying amounts of love for Louis and Donna, but does anyone really wanna watch a show about the three of them? I don’t.

I hope Gabriel decides not to return and forces their hand. Because we all know that even though nothing has been announced that it’s more likely that the show will be renewed than cancelled. But it’s not what it used to be, and they should just let it end. If Gabriel leaves too then there’d be no show left, and they could try and wrap everything up instead of having characters leave and the show dwindle into nothing.

Look, I’m a hardcore Harvey/Mike shipper (and that’s gonna colour my thoughts on this topic). It’s the only reason I still watch the show. If I didn’t love that ship as much as I do I probably would’ve stopped watching about four years ago. And I hate the notion that if/when PJA and Meghan leave that when the ratings inevitably go down (because correct me if I’m wrong but they’ve been in a steady decline for years now) Korsh and Co will just blame it on people being sad about the lack of Mike/Rachel, and not the lack of Harvey/Mike or the lack of any decent story telling. And I hate that it will inevitably show Mike choosing/leaving with Rachel and leaving Harvey, Harvey with his abandonment issues, Harvey with his focus on loyalty and his track record of doing anything and everything for Mike.

But. On the upside. If/when PJA leaves there will be no more Harvey/Mike scenes and I’ll finally be free of this stupid show.

[tattooedsiren]

I’m sorry but after seven seasons this whole thing with Harvey and Mike not talking to each other and suddenly no longer having each other’s backs and no longer trusting each other is such bullshit. Like they literally fought each other over who would get to go to prison for the other. You telling me that this thing with Alex is gonna trump all that? Ugh. And that scene with Harvey telling Mike he didn’t trust him anymore broke my heart. I’m so over this story line they need to fix it and move on. (I wanna write a mini fix-it fic but I’m so rage-y I don’t know how it would turn out lol)