#it doesn't really matter. who cares. just yammering for no reason again

[burningcheese-merchant]

So there's this Shadowvanilla fic on Ao3 Im fairly certain you know about, and in It SM and PV link up to eachother's minds/feelings/souls via their souljams touching, and its pretty sweet since since they're on their chests, the two basically have to hug to connect.

Which made me think, what about the other beasts and ancients? BS and GC would be by far the weirdest imo bc she would have to touch her forehead to his chest??? Which depending on the size difference It could still just be a hug.

SS and WL would touch their weapons (sword and staff), which can comes off as distant or cold, despite the fact they're about to peer into eachother's very being.

ES and MF suffer because their's are on their forehead and their ancient's are on their weapons😭😭 imagine HB shield to EG's forehead, that'd be awkward af

I'm not actually sure what you're referring to 😅 is it Jambound? I think something like that happens in it? I don't really remember, I read the first 3 chapters a while ago and that's it haha (I really don't have the time to read fanfics, especially not ones as long as that one (it's like 15 chapters long now and still going with no end in sight, isn't it??? Goodness)). I never really did much of anything on AO3 tbh, I honestly just go there to write and post my own dumb garbage and then vanish into the aether again

Regardless. I always vibed with the concept of the Ancients and Beasts connecting/strengthening their existing connection through their Soul Jams. But the way I've tried to get around the fact that most of their placements are... cumbersome and don't really lend themselves to that (White Lily's staff and Silent Salt's sword, for example) is, I think of it as... Through the sharing of the Soul Jams, they're all already bound to one another, yeah? So do they NEED to have them be a component in the physical aspect of this? Do White Lily and Silent Salt NEED to have their staff and sword clink together to express that intimacy? Or can they simply embrace each other nice and tight, staff and sword set aside nearby, and their souls can resonate just with that action? The Soul Jam not physically being in their hands doesn't really mean it's left their ownership and they've completely lost access to its power, I don't think; we saw that with how the Light of Abundance refused to answer to Smoked Cheese when he took it, and how Golden Cheese could keep fighting Burning Spice for a while even without it (albeit weaker). So idk if they need the Soul Jams to touch so they can feel closer to each other. I think they've all been naturally imbued with that power at least to some degree and thus don't really 100% need the physical Soul Jams to facilitate that closeness. If I'm already super glued to somebody then not putting my hands on their belt buckle or whatever isn't going to make us any less stuck together ykwim

With that said I like to imagine BS's being particularly sensitive since it's embedded in his chest. GC can press her hand down on it, or lay her head against it, and feel his heart beating through it, if only faintly. Maybe it feels warm to the touch, and grows warmer and shines brighter the faster his heart races. Maybe his breath catches in his throat when she touches it because it feels different there than it does when she touches any other part of his body. Maybe it acts as a cute little nightlight when they're curled up together in bed. Maybe it burns hot like a coal and glows like the fire in a hearth when they're deep in the throes of passion. Maybe, as a charming little gesture, she actually will touch her forehead to his chest so they can listen to that soft little clink that sounds the little kiss Abundance and Destruction shares. Maybe a certain something stirs within them both when she does it, maybe not. But it's cute. They're so in love that even their Soul Jams want to make out. Lol

Also any excuse to put her face in those big strong man titties is 👌👌👌 in her opinion

[redstringraven]

hello, hi, i've been having severe raphneth brainrot all morning/day, and i almost never babble about them, so here's some incoherent thought-and-feeling-dumping. i don't expect anyone to read this because i just needed to pace around and gesture wildly at my conspiracy board while talking to the spiders hiding in various nooks and crannies.

if you read, hope you enjoy my continued nonsense (and thank u).

again this is gonna be very stream-of-consciousness yammering, so i apologize if it's hard to follow or gets repetitive or if my word choices could have been better and my thoughts more refined. i just wanna flail my hands a little without feeling pressured to make it Nice.

i know i've repeated this thought a lot when i have talked about them, but i love so much that it's two heavily guarded people--both who have learned for one reason or another that the world is cold, and you need to protect yourself and what you hold dear from it--learning together that vulnerability isn't weakness. and also, like... learning to value themselves, too?

this isn't to say i don't think raph--specifically--values himself. it's more, i think as the series goes on up to the point where gwyn's entered the picture (so, post season 4) he's kind of in this ... limbo... where he feels almost like he doesn't have a "place" or a "valuable role" or anything he can really point to and say is his. as tots, he thought HE would be "top turtle" (his words), but over time he was happy to step aside, so to speak, and follow leo's direction. they all got a bit of a harsh wake up call when don got double-mutated to all the things they rely on him for. and, while i think he'd really hesitate to say it out loud, i'm sure he knows he's the third strongest fighter from a technical standpoint. i continue to emphasize that i feel his bitterness toward mikey's battle nexus win comes more from the fact he let mikey exploit a weakness of his and lost agency to his anger, rather than the fact he lost to mikey. truthfully, i feel like raph's more than proud of mikey--if not glad that he's capable taking care of himself, and even more than that when he wants to. i wouldn't say raph's "settled" to being the protector/shield as a role, more so he's maybe leaning into it. it's not a silent role, either--his family is aware he has a tendency to block or take hits for them, don has verbalized this as early as season 1. it's something he does, it's something he contributes. he's strong enough to do.

this kind of lack and loss of identity can also be found in gwyn, but amplified. gwyn's molded herself into so many different behaviors, personalities, and she's worn so many masks in order to get by and survive that she's lost connection with herself. if she's not constantly searching for a way to get ash back in a living, breathing body, who is she? what does she like? hobbies? how does she really feel about things when she's not trying to get on someone's good side?

it's both an interesting common ground AND an interesting contrast when it comes to raph, because no matter what raph is always going to unapologetically be himself. he may be struggling to find (where he perceives) he needs to 'fit into' the family unit, but he knows who he is. you can take him or leave him; he knows what he likes, what he doesn't, and he'll let you know, too.

raph is a person who can identify strength. i've mentioned in my enneagram posts that he can sniff out who holds the most power or control in a room, and, likewise, i'd be willing to bet that he's quick to pick up on an individual's strength-areas. things they're good at, what they gravitate to, skills they have that could easily flourish if given the right attention. he can and will, easily, be your biggest hype-man--we see him gas up don several times. he wants to see those he cares about discover where they're strong, and he wants to give them that empowerment and confidence in themselves. i've gestured at this when i talked about his brotp with min-ji, how he cares for her well-being unconditionally. all this to say, raph's likely picked up on gwyn's missing sense of self. as they grow closer--and ESPECIALLY as gwyn/ash's arc comes to a close and they get to start embracing a quieter life--raph would absolutely start helping gwyn take better notice of what things make her happy. not happy for an ulterior reason--things that genuinely make HER. happy. raph doesn't like being lied to--he can be a walking lie-detector--and i can see that gently coming into use if gwyn starts to say she likes something because she thinks it'd appease someone they're around, and him finding subtle ways to be like "...y'sure?". not to like... manipulate her or anything, but more to steer her to being more genuine and authentic with how she feels about something? if that makes sense??? getting to be a part of her... finding herself... being confident and happy and finally feeling connected to her own soul?

and then we have his side of things, where he's presently leaning hard into the shield and protector role. gwyn... doesn't like that.

ash died throwing herself in front of gwyn. she got stabbed shielding gwyn's body with her own. gwyn does NOT want people taking hits meant for her--especially if they're someone she's grown close to. raph's done this for her once already, and they got in an argument over it that only ended when gwyn said "they won't lose you because of me" and "you're more than a glorified meat shield".

since gwyn's best friends with mikey, she's NO DOUBT picked up on how much mikey looks up to raph, and how raph's his best bud. since she's learned how to read people like books, i'm sure she's noticed the silent appreciation and respect don and leo have for him, too, when he goes out of his way to do things for them, or when he just seems to know to spend time with them, or how attentive he is. she loves enabling mikey's braggart moments when it comes to his championship, but don't think YOU'RE off the hook, raphael. she sees all those 'small' things you do, and she will find ways to praise you for them in the presence of others and uplift you. you're trying to play down the work you put into rebuilding mikey's battle nexus trophy since the original was destroyed with the second lair? oh, bet--she's gonna make sure the others know the trouble you went to in order to make it as authentic as possible. you are SEEN.

gwyn definitely thinks SHE needs to earn any love she gets--love for her must be earned because she's essentially a curse. if she wants to be treated like anything but that, she has to prove herself. perhaps, hypocritically, she knows this isn't the case for others. where raph thinks he might need to fill a role or contribute somehow to the family unit and not be "dead weight", gwyn would push back and tell him that he doesn't need to do any of that bullshite. he's already doing so much by just being there and by being who he is. she can't comprehend applying this to herself because she was BORN a curse, but raph is already adored by his family--he doesn't NEED to do anything--his presence in the room is a pillar of strength and his family feels empowered by the simple fact that he's standing at their side. she sees that--easily. she's felt it, herself. the sense of security he grants those around him who know he'll stand beside them without flinching for no other reason than he loves them.

which, again, is an extremely difficult concept for her to wrap her head around when it comes to herself. befriending mikey was a huge step toward even opening her mind to this idea, as he would emphasize that he and his brothers want gwyn and ash around for no other reason than the privilege of knowing them. if mikey hadn't given her the space and patience and kindness to come around to accepting that it was possible for someone to stay by her side--expecting nothing in return--for no other reason than they wanted her around, then it'd be even harder for her to believe that raph would extend that to her as well. because, again, she and raph are both heavily guarded people--and they no doubt clocked that in each other immediately.

another common-ground point i feel like they have is that sense of being """the problem child""" or an '"""inferior sibling""" (gwyn is the 'parasitic twin', and it's not lost on me that raph's rebuttal when he starts getting angry about losing is sometimes "you think you're better than me?"). they're both used to, and often willing, to play the part of a scapegoat. we've seen raph do it in-series, and gwyn has absolutely taken the fall for ash as kids, so ash could continue to keep what little of the community's good graces she had. they both get what it feels like to be "the family screw up". there's a lack of judgment and silent understanding there. they also have similar ways of processing their emotions when they get heightened, but gwyn's more tapped into her emotional state and is better at identifying WHICH strong emotion she's feeling and figuring out how to "best" manage it in order to navigate the situation and her surroundings. it'd give her insight into what raph experiences when he feels strongly--allowing her to be patient with him and vigilant of what he responds to--and she over time extends this knowledge and these tools to him to help him with his temper. and where gwyn won't hesitate to hurt someone if it means protecting someone she loves or to protect herself, i think... i think she'd realize pretty fast that despite all his barking, raph's bite isn't like hers. she can hurt, compartmentalize or rationalize, and walk away. if raph hurt someone--and ESPECIALLY if he did it while in a heightened/anger-triggered state--it'd haunt him. even if it was someone she wanted to see pay for something they did, she'd hold raph back. not because it's the """right thing to do""", but because it's helping and, in a way, protecting him. when he comes back down, cools off, he's grateful for this.

there's, of course, the understanding of just how invaluable eachother's families are to them. they both come from perspectives where, for a LONG time, their family was all they had and all they expected to have. raph understands where gwyn's coming from when it comes to the lengths she'll go to get ash back--HE'S faced that before when don double-mutated. and likewise, gwyn gets to a point she wouldn't take any of the turtles choosing each other over her as like... a personal attack or an act of betrayal. she gets it, because she'd pick ash first, too. i think that's ...kind of a 'flaw' both the turtles and gwyn/ash share, is that they're always going to have a bias toward their family units. and gwyn and raph get that when it comes to each other. it doesn't mean an impossible choice like that would hurt any less, more so the sting afterward wouldn't come with resentment. it's another one of those unspoken understandings. their siblings are their worlds, and they can never turn their backs to them. and it's also because of that understanding that the other's sibling(s) becomes a part of that world, too. like... i've talked about what mikey means to gwyn. she also respects the everloving FUCK out of leo, and has a lot of admiration for don. and ash's lack of autonomy and agency alone is enough to make raph protective of her; as she comes out of her shell more, he comes to love her dry and strange sense of humor and also loves getting into random, petty banter with her. and, obviously, the weight of the sacrifice she made in the first place isn't lost on him. you KNOW he respects the hell out of the unshaken loyalty and love she showed to gwyn throughout their youth, even when it came at the cost of friendships, opportunities to learn, and participation in community celebrations.

and also just... the concept of these two people who're used to being "handled" so roughly finding tenderness and safety with each other. the fact that i don't think ANYONE aside from ash has told gwyn outright that they love her, and the day that raph says "i love you" to her is kind of world-shattering in a sense, because it goes against everything she was ever told or lead to believe or had come to believe about herself because of what she's done to stay alive. and she'd just... start crying... not because she's sad, more just because she's so... overwhelmed and feeling so much all at once that her body just. starts. crying. and of course he holds and anchors her through it.

i just

the fact so much of this only exists in my own skull is torture and torment and i want more time and energy to put it on paper so my random bouts of affection aggression make sense to more people than just myself and i feel slightly less annoying clawing at the walls, gnawing the floorboards, skittering about the leaves and burrowing in the dirt.

these slow, slow burn bitches, i hate them. get out of my school. i could keep going but i've lost track of how deep in the weeds i am so i'll just stop here. if you got all the way to the end... uh... i'm so sorry and also thank you so frickin much, oh my god >xDDDD

[skaruresonic]

Out of curiosity, could you make an example of a character that, in your opinion, was forcibly woobiefied by the narrative? In what instance(s) did you feel "cool motive still murder" or "I do not care enough about their plight, stop manipulating me"? It is a fine line to cross, so I find it hard to pinpoint where it is.

Scourge is one example. Archie really flip-flopped on what it wanted him to be. The new kid on the block? A pathetic nobody? Woobie, destroyer of worlds? Outside of that one side story, Scourge's daddy issues are not brought up again, begging questions of why they were introduced to begin with. They don't particularly do anything to flesh him out since they don't gel with his previous characterization (hailing from a world where everyone is "born evil") and his tears at Jules' mean words feel manufactured; if he really cared about his father, maybe he shouldn't have killed him.

Also like what the fuck, dude, your father achieved world peace and your response is to off him? At least when Creoda offs his dad, it's because his dad forces him to in replacement of his brother's punishment, and he's clearly horrified. 😤

Another example would be how the 50 Shades of Grey trilogy treats Christian Grey's trauma. Grey is a billionaire at age 27 by essentially doing nothing other than being adopted into the right family. Furthermore, he is an abuser who uses his kinky predilections as an excuse to "whip little brown-haired girls" who resemble his mother, whom he calls "the crack whore."

He used to go hungry sometimes as a toddler and this is stated to be the reason he does humanitarian aid now that he's #ultrarich. His lover Ana makes such a huge fuss about the trauma he sustained at the age of four, to the point where she infantilizes him as her "lost boy" during the most random moments, despite the fact that he's a grown man with more money and power than brains. Like sometimes she will cry over this shit for no apparent reason. It doesn't occur to her that he is financially abusing her by showering her with expensive gifts she doesn't want and forcing her to sell her old car.

Although it's not impossible for childhood hunger to impact one's psyche well into adulthood... those issues usually stem from having been poor and food-insecure for a long time. Grey would have well forgotten his hunger after having been adopted because the threat was no longer hanging over his head. So it comes across as "methinks the lady doth protest too much" whenever Ana yammers on about how little Grey had, especially when she goes all "uwu my poor Christian" in order to gloss over her own abuse at Grey's hands.

The more plot-relevant trauma Grey sustained is having been assaulted as a teen by an older woman. Even that is loaded with unfortunate implications, as it suggests an interest in kink must be the result of sexual trauma. However, the narrative treats the matter with such heavy-handed and juvenile clumsiness anyway that you just wind up feeling irritated with everyone involved.

Ana gives his abuser the nickname "Mrs. Robinson," and it's like. Reducing Grey's assaulter to a cougar psychically distances us from the gravitas of the situation. The book only pays the barest lip service to the fact that it's wrong for grown women to assault male minors (and even that feels perfunctory), and worse still, Grey remains friends with his assaulter, citing her as an inspiration and the reason for his empire. Like, what the fuck?

E.L. James could have built a more substantial story with these elements. Perhaps Grey is being financially abused by his assaulter long after the sexual assault stops, but he cannot escape the relationship due to being entangled in emotional and financial thorns. Perhaps his assaulter blackmails him, threatening to tank his reputation if he comes forward on the basis that people still believe the "female predators are just cougars doing young boys a favor" myth. Perhaps it takes him falling in love with an "unwashed peasant" Ana to realize that love isn't supposed to hurt, and he gives up his billionaire lifestyle for her despite poverty-related fears brought on by his childhood hunger.

This was probably close to the story 50 Shades wanted to tell, but it fails at that due to the fact that Grey is a massive douchenozzle who abuses his power and the fact that Ana has the IQ of a mollusk.

Imo woobification is a matter of whether the trauma remains relevant to the character and narrative in question. Scourge doesn't give a shit about his dead dad after issue 192, and neither does the rest of the comic; ergo,

Likewise, why should we care about the time Grey had nothing to eat at age four when he now commands the wealth of a small nation and can afford to feed a second?

The impact has to be proportional. Nobody lives to adulthood without accruing some baggage along the way, and it ought to be the same for fictional characters (generally speaking; there are, as always, exceptions).

I think the solution entails trying to consider characters holistically: where they've been, what they've seen, their beliefs, their culture, their environment, their relationships. Each impacts the next. Not to keep tooting my own horn by using my work as a counterexample, but Creoda suffers from the trauma of dehumanization at the hands of his family, which would be bad enough on its own. But it is exacerbated by his brother's abuse, the fatalism of Saxon culture, the strife in his relationships with those who ought to love him and who he ought to love, and "reinforced" through his continuous and painful resurrections.

His brother Cynric is the cause of the curse that echoes through every chamber of his life, so it's little wonder, then, that Creoda's goal is ultimately to destroy Cynric in the vain hopes of becoming a normal man. But it will not be enough to replace the emptiness, for death, like vengeance, always craves more.

It is not a drastic or singular trauma like the more overt 'nam flashbacks Arthur suffers of Camlan, but his beliefs have calcified in his bones like a misshapen sheath, protecting a more vulnerable marrow within.

Creoda does not base his beliefs on nebulous notions of faith; the curse is indeed real and ontologically proven as far as he's concerned. It is real because it proves itself to be real. And every implication that comes saddled with it is, therefore, just as unshakably real. He cannot be reasoned with because this is how he knows the world works. Nothing is more frightening than the implacability of a zealot who believes reality proves him right.

Yet knowing his mindset does not excuse his cruelty. If anything, his piety to a vindictive god makes his actions even more fucked-up, because he could say "my god has said that I must take your firstborn son to prevent a blight" and it's like what are you going to do? Kill him? The guy who can't die?

[novacies]

No babe, I'm absolutely not thinking about how we were robbed by Capcom on hints about how kristophs' and phoenix's "friendship" might have looked like, again. I'm normal.

Imagine youre Kristoph Gavin. You have the Gramarye trial meticulously planned out and then that bastard zak gramarye foils it all because of a poker game. You already have the forged page and a prosecutor brother so fuck that guy. Let the forged evidence insure he gets a guilty verdict.

Phoenix wright is collateral damage. Truly, you did not care much about him. You almost take pity on him, on this terror that took the legal world by force. Maybe you see a few similarities, two blue clad defense attorneys infamous in the court room, though for different reasons.

You vote in his favor at his hearing; of course this does not matter but you felt like virtue signaling. Apologizing for your brother and all. You get curious when you see the broken look in his face. You invite him out for dinner

It's almost delightfull really, the turnabout terror turned into a sad sack of shit. No Turnabout he can pull out of his ass this time.

Then he adpots the Gramarye girl.

You dont understand why

You get suspicious.

You start to see it throught the yammering and feigned misery over the edge of you soup bowl : hes watching you. Like an animal, waiting for you to make a wrong move. His eyes seem to glow sometimes. You think you're hallucinating, the green is just too vibrant.

Suddenly you remeber. This is the same man who brought down von Karma, after 15 years, the most feared prosecutor of all. The one who brought down the chief of police, knocked Franziska von Karma and Miles Edgeworth of their thrones, cross examined a parrot and one of the most infamous serial killers. The one who brought down yet another prosecutor and apparently exorcised a ghost in the courtroom.

You get...scared.

You're aware that a game has begone

For a while you are on top of it. Your plan is fool proof, nothing can go wrong. Wright knows this. So you both feign friendship, you both know its fake. Still theres a sense of cameraderie. And somehow, theres no better company than him.

Hes an undefeeated poker champion and it makes sense. It almost feels like hes taunting you.

"This was your failure that you tried to make my downfall. And now Im making it my victory again.

Watch."

Youre a bit proud. This is a conspiracy he hasn't managed to uncover (yet). What a glorious feeeling that this is even beyond Wrights seemingly supernatural abilities.

You slip up

His face lights up

You become hyper vigilant.

a constant game of cat and mouse

you've always prefered dogs, instead

Then, Zak Gramarye walks through the door.

Then, zak gramrye lies dead before you.

Then, you underestimate wright again

But Wright doesn't underestimate you

Pulls an ace out of his sleeve, literally

You lose.