#just plotting to kill themselves (siffrin)

[moons-among-distant-stars]

maybe it's time for a change of scene...

i could be loved... i could get my happy ending

[chimerical-daydreams]

Will Loop ever tell or will there be a Plot that makes the King know who he could have been? Makes everyone else know his alternate history? Where is Loop from? In the end, I don't think they'll ever volunteer

Elaborating on my answers to a similar question, Loop is absolutely not telling anyone by their own will.

they are halfway decent at keeping their mask up while sif is around, but. uh. its starts to wear down after a while. they slip up and mention things they shouldn't, start acting kind of weird all of a sudden, and then Something happens (i havent decided what exactly what, but I have a list of options), and they just Fully Lose Their Shit. act 6 secret bossfight style. the truth abou loop comes out in a explosive manner, and they're fully ready to just Exile Themselves Forever or to just. Die. but as always, their family welcomes them back with open arms and a new understanding of them as a person.

But, as time goes by, and they find more of their family, it gets harder and harder to hide that they Know something that everyone else does not. By the time they cave and get Siffrin into the group, everyone is at least aware that Something is up, but no one is sure what, as Loop always finds a way to deflect if they ask about their past.

(Nille's theory is that their transformation into a star was physically destructive, and that it killed their family that was in the vicinity, and they haven't forgiven themselves for it. Odile's is that they have some kind of foresight or other impossible source of knowledge, and that they're calloused from knowing the death of those around them).

Much closer at the end of their travel, while the party is taking a stop in a small town, King goes off by himself, and Loop follows behind. They find him at the foot of the tallest tree, carefully sorting through the leaves. When he perks up, one shiny leaf in hand, Loop understands what he's doing. This is a Favor Tree. He's going to make a wish. They cannot, under any circumstances, let that happen.

Loop snap forward, grabbing the King by his forearm, and asking him what he thinks he's doing. A bit shaken by their sudden appearance, he explains that he wanted to make a wish, that their journey is coming to an end, and he wanted everything to go right on this last stretch of the way. They won't allow it, they can't. He asks why? What's wrong with what he's doing, and they just wish he'd just understand why-

King slumps forward, unconscious. Loop catches him. Oh no, that wasn't what they wanted, that's not what they meant, why did they have to phrase it like that, please oh no no no-

Meanwhile, the King is having a Very Bad Time, his mind sent to go meet the other version of himself. He, of course, gets frozen in time, forced to watch as a band of very familiar faces go against the monster that wears his face. They all fall before him in one fell swoop and all he can do is watch in horror as Vaugarde succumbs to static, only broken by the sound of sobbing from his other self.

Loop is pacing back and forth under the Favor Tree when the King wakes up, hyperventilating and clearly scared. They sit next to him, and after he calms down enough to talk, explains what he saw. Loop winces at the recollection. When he finishes, after a moment of silence, they ask if now he understands why they don't trust him around wishes. He says yes. They linger under the tree, embracing the quiet for now.

[hollenka99]

One thing I really love about Detective Beebo is how the timeloops are, for lack of a better word, dynamic. Nothing stays exactly the same except for the location of the mansion and the 10 characters present on the property.

It means Ángel can only warn Oliver so much. Because sure, don't mess with paintings so Eugene Coli can't stab anyone in the clock room. Maybe don't head for the tower because you could fall despite the railings. Ollie, for the love of god, stop wandering off and giving Coli opportunities to ambush you, just stay close to me where I can protect you instead. Ángel can try to keep his friend safe but there will always be things that have changed.

The main reason for this is of course Coli. By having the antagonist be aware of the loops, even be in control of when a loop ends, it means no two loops will ever be the same. It's like how he takes the keys from the aquarium in Round 2 so it's harder for Oliver to get ahold of them. He is frequently waiting in the shadows. He noticed a handful of people were up on the balcony so he set off the bomb there. Oliver went into the shed when he was presumably nearby so he was able to kill Owen then ambush Oliver, hiding the photobook again.

It reminds me a bit of Edge of the 17th by friight (Spoiler warning since they are kinda unavoidable for what I want to say). In the fic, it is revealed that the antagonist, Dream, remembers the loops too and as such, is working directly against Wilbur's efforts to make the events of the day end with minimal casualties. But of course, with each loop, that's another method of stopping Dream that can't really be used again because Dream knows, he remembers and is able to think of ways to counter Wilbur.

The events within the House of Vera aren't particularly akin to this but the sentiment does stand. Coli knows everyone but Ángel is oblivious to what's going on. He can ambush them with axes or detonate a bomb when a small group is in an opportunistic place. Who cares that one of his targets was outside having a smoke at 8pm? It just means he has to be careful not to permanently kill Ángel but as shown by Oliver's death at the end of Round 3, that's something Coli has to keep in mind for all of them.

Compare this to a static timeloop narrative like In Stars And Time or Groundhog Day where everything is exactly the same every loop, only the protagonist is able to change things. This works well for something like ISAT because it's not actually about beating the King like Siffrin originally believes. It's about how their own insecurities are holding them back and literally making them unable to move on with their life. These types of timeloops also lend themselves to higher loop quantities (I think my Siffrin looped 70-80 times and there are literally articles estimating how many years Phil Connors was stuck in Punxsutawney), as opposed to Detective Beebo where they only loop what, 5-6 times depending on the ending? Which I'd say is typical of the shorter nature of dynamic loops in my opinion.

I would argue Detective Beebo would suffer as a narrative if it had a static timeloop. For one thing, Coli's plan falls apart if he can't remember the previous loops and I doubt he'd ever be satisfied if every time he killed his victims was the first time for him. Even if he was the only one to remember until the end, Ángel being another driving force in the plot would be missing. Just because he fails to save Oliver's (or for that matter anyone else's) life for most of the loops doesn't mean he's not using his consistent memory to help Oliver get closer to the answers. And besides, someone needs to be able to remember or else everyone's just looping endlessly.

Anyway, hell yeah to dynamic timeloops. There should be more of them because they're really fun.

[beneathsilverstars]

Dunno if you're only interested in thinking about ISAT related sillies, but I've been thinking of Siffrin's love of plays and poetry mixed with my love of musicals! It's got a script and there's stage settings so people walk the same paths and say the same things every time, but it's still performance art! There's still a magic in every moment and potential for new meaning and change- and that's before you think of how the people times and places also inherently shape things. Do you have any thoughts about what the ISAT party + newly adopted Nille feel/think about traditional plays?

Mirabelle enjoys them as much as any other sort of media, I think! She's more concerned with genre and character than format. It's too bad you can't easily re-experience a play like you can a book, but! That just makes it all the more special to see one! She took an acting class once, and even though she was only a minor background character, being on stage made her so nervous that she messed up her only line. But! That just makes it all the more impressive how brave and talented professional actors are!!

Isabeau loves them as a visual medium. The costumes! The set! The blocking! In the past he would've just said the play was pretty, but these days he will come out of the theater gushing about the visual symbolism. Mira's like "What did you think of the plot though?" and he's like "Oh, the plot? Yeah it was great, it was really clever how they foreshadowed the fall of the prince by tearing his cloak directly through the royal insignia in act one, especially because the blow would have killed him if his servant hadn't intervened; it's just like how holding onto the throne would have led to his death, meaning his servant saved him once again by removing him from power!"

Odile's fine with them. She prefers the private experience of a book, but going out and doing something with friends is a different kind of nice! It's fun to tease everyone about their reactions afterwards. And if she cried at one too once no she didn't. :|

Bonnie likes the action! A story you can watch! Except sometimes Siffrin picks boring ones that are mostly people standing around and talking to themselves and Bonnie isn't even allowed to run around instead. So, hit or miss for them. Every couple of years the kids in Bambouche put on a play, and last time Bonnie got to be a pirate, and it was awesome even though they had to be so careful to not actually whack the other kid with their sword.

Nille likes them a lot! Plays are maybe her favorite way to be told a story; it's so direct and clear and multi-sensational, you really get to immerse yourself in it. She often does gestures and voices while telling stories herself, it just makes it easier to follow! She was so proud of Bonnie when they got to be a pirate and only actually whacked the other kid with their sword for real during practice a couple times.

Siffrin loved the escapism. Stories are so grand, and everything that happens in them is so meaningful. A play ends the same way each time you watch it, yet you're still on the edge of your seat, swept up in the world the actors have conjured! Plus, seeing a play was the best way to kill an evening, sitting somewhere safe and comfortable while getting a little more familiar with the local language and culture. They liked experiencing unique small plays! They liked seeing how a world-famous play would get translated and adapted for different countries! They liked attending the same production three nights in a row and seeing if they could catch any little differences!

Post-canon... He's definitely not going to watch the same one three nights in a row. And not any that he has basically memorized, either. And maybe not the entire thing yet, maybe he has to leave closer to the beginning than the intermission a couple times. But!! Siffrin loves plays, he remembers that about himself, and even after everything, he can't help but love the familiar. So. He's working towards being able to be himself again.

Loop would rather get crushed by the king again than step foot in a theatre~!