#like this is not what the weirwood dream foreshadows tbh

[ilynpilled]

Do you think Brienne will also turn really grey in winds too like GRRM alluded?

i dont think brienne is intended to go that dark and i dont think this is the aim of her character thematically to be frank, nor do i think this is what is being set up ig. the one thing that i could imagine that would make her substantially morally darker in winds is if she eventually had to really choose between podrick and jaime in a way where jaime is actually in direct and immediate danger so not entirely like the feast scenario where that is not really the case and she picks jaime

[ilynpilled]

do you believe jc’s endgame is to die together?

i think i have communicated much of this already, but let’s just say i am more open to the possibility than most jb/jaime ppl, but i am not at all as certain of it happening as most ppl in general fandom seem to be, and i am also not a huge fan of it personally. here is my perspective:

yeah, it is explicitly integrated into their belief system. it faded from jaime’s, as he did abandon her, and already often contradicted it through moments of being ready to recklessly die, or his passive suicidal ideation, but it was always present as a key aspect of their ‘destined lovers’ delusion. the thing with me though is that i dont really think this is how george tends to do foreshadowing? he does love to be unpredictable. and i have seen this argument many times before by other people who doubt this being their trajectory. not to mention the whole idea seems to get deliberately deconstructed over time.

jaime comes to the realization that she was the stranger (and we know he is cersei’s stranger, but she does not think he means death). he starts treating the relationship very differently (george says they are “effectively estranged”), and their fate is no longer entwined in his head. them saying they will die together is telegraphing that is very in your face. i mean the text is telling us what would happen explicitly. is that supposed to be deliberate and meant to be a tragic irony? i can see it working from that perspective maybe. but i think this aspect would still be effective without the double death necessarily, even though i can see how the wording may be deliberate here, i just have certain thematic gripes with it. we know these two are not supposed to be reliable narrators when they say this. their relationship is a twisted attempt at self-love. again, i get that there is a subversion happening with cersei being killed by him for one, but is the belief system supposed to end up “endorsed” by the text from the pov of jaime’s character, even if it is tragically ironic? what i am saying is that ig i would be more certain of it happening if cersei did not keep repeating it explicitly atp while jaime is completely contradicting it simultaneously. if they are supposed to doom each other, what is really the point of that divergence? of the deconstruction of such a narrative in jaime’s head? why not send jaime back and have him not make those kind of key choices? jaime’s arc is supposed to be about choices (“whatever he chose…”), and defining his own fate and identity (like you do not even have to believe it is about exploring redemption to get this out of the text), so i really still cannot help but dislike the idea that this is set in stone despite everything that he keeps doing and the choices that he keeps on making. like there is an essentialist aspect to this belief system that i would prefer to be subverted honestly from the perspective of his character. i want all of these choices to have some kind of result (the letter, oathkeeper, the pit, rejecting her because of certain ultimatums even before the cheating reveal, abandoning the pursuit of the brotherhood for the vow to cat in adwd). + the hand that held her foot could have very well been the one that got chopped, so there is symbolism there. he is not tied to her. and that hand loss and “change” is constantly emphasized when it comes to JC. and i really do not want jaime to die before having some kind of confrontation with bran tbh. and i have talked about the widow’s wail thing before. if jaime is gonna wield it (which i think there is a set up for), then he would have to come out of KL alive with it. the weirwood dream also has them separate. her torch being the ‘only light in the world’ is replaced by brienne’s sword’s fire being the only one still burning in his darkness when the ghosts rush in.

this is another argument that i have seen before, and see validity in. george does write that belief system as something that has an element of ‘sociopathy.’ like of course it isn’t meant to be ‘romantic’. and jaime is also growing out of it. his relationship with a lot of characters now, brienne included, is a testament. i do not at all mind if jaime dies down the line, i just really would prefer it if there is some form of triumph over the self when it comes to his ending. i also atm cannot imagine how it would go, and what would cause jaime’s death, and how they would “leave the world together” logistically with the valonqar prophecy existing. so while i think george might be capable of executing it in a way that i could like, and i see that tragic irony working out, i still am not crazy about it as a concept atm for all the reasons above. we will see.