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horizon-verizon · 6 months

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Thoughts on Daenerys publicly executing the former slave and how she went about it in S05x02?

In a word? Not great. Boo.

The show rewrite & repurposing of Mossader &seems like it was meant to rewrite progression of the "error" Daenerys makes with her dragons by essentially adding another one that I'm sure they didn't think was an serious error. A way for them to try to make Dany seem a worse leader & thinker than she really is. I don't like how the show basically tried to make her look tyrannical by making her violently suppress the actions of someone who was both devoted to her and really had already been shut down before when he was saying the right thing. Which was to just get rid of this harpy-hire dude at the very least and at most what she said abt sending a message.

I also hated how it made Mossader look irrational & nearly "savage" through a display of fanatics--in how he almost dreamily said he did it "for her", posing Daenyers' goddess-like stature as easily shiftable to threatening. Foreshadowing that horrible erroneous ending of her becoming a Hitler figure. Like the scene was saying to us she inspires generationally brutalized and dehumanized brown people to the point of irrational "frenzy" and she cannot even be nuanced or sympathetic as she had been before in her ruling for Mossader. This pathetic-ized person who had at one point called her Mhysa and believed in her.

But the narrative the show pushes is not even fair itself to this man (hypocritically) & is just using him to denigrate Dany; becasue why are we making the only male brown former slave besides Grey Worm do such a thing AND be as I said "fanatical" towards the white Dany??! This man, who was put on their council as the voice and reason of those freed Meereenese...appears to us as totally unreasonable bc we know and he "should" have known that there were consequences for disrupting the Westerosi-style of "fair trial" and "honor"...The trial would be a false one, bc this guy will not be let off or go free. His crimes are obvious. Even if we did posit him going free, he'd likely just go back to being a hire for the harpy!

Plus we saw how actual ineffectual and emotion-based/false honor-based actual Westerosi trials can be through both of the trials against Tyrion: at the Eyries; esp the one at the Red Keep after Joffrey dies. So much for fairness of the superior Westerosi style of justice! (another hypocrisy of the writing itself)

So the show has Dany simultaneously "fails" Mossader, and utterly. As if the bonds she has with the slaves and her mission really don't mean anything to her.

After all, does she not marry Hizdahr, reopen the fighting pits (later) to stop the killings of the freedmen...Then she kills the freedman who was supposed to rep them all??

And the points Hizdahr & Barristan Selmy tried to make against killing the dude besides the trial..."poor and young"; "Why should he want to bring back slavery? What did it do for him?"; " I don't know it, and I'm the head of a great family."...why are we even indulging in these stupid protests?!!! We know his presence is so the other nobles feel they have say and influence over Dany, but there was no rebuttal (or at least a sign from her dismissing Hizdahr, whether he sees it or not) from show!Dany against his absurd "logic" about "going easy" on this guy. Huh?!

Subsequently, she loses a lot of faith from the freedmen who beg for not only Mossader's life but for her to not bend to the masters' clear attempt to confuse the priority. Which is their total freedom at those masters' expense. Which is exactly what D&D wanted bc they hate her, refuse to understand her, and lost interest in this series.

It was just a huge mess!

CONTEXT for comparison

Mossador died differently in the original book series ("A Dance with Dragons -- Daenerys II"):

In the show, he gets executed because show!Daenerys wanted to re-establish a peace of between the freedmen and the former (not so former) slavers and elites of Meereen. Some, if not all, of these elites formed the group "Sons of the Harpy", and in the show one of these are captured. Show!Mossader didn't believe that any of the Masters would just lie down and allow Daenerys' end to legal slavery in Meereen stick. And that they'd eventually somehow either get this prisoner out OR this Master would be somehow saved in the process of a the trial that was planned for him:

MOSSADOR: Sons of the Harpy, they want to put a collar back on my neck. On all of our necks. Please, Your Grace, you must kill him. DAENERYS: It would send a message. BARRISTAN: I think you should exercise restraint, Your Grace. DAENERYS: Why? BARRISTAN: For one thing, he may have valuable information. DAARIO: The Son of the Harpy has no more valuable information. BARRISTAN: How do you know that? DAARIO: Because I questioned him. HIZDAHR: And the information you did get, he is young and poor. MOSSADOR: He is born free. HIZDAHR: Why should he want to bring back slavery? What did it do for him? DAENERYS: Perhaps the only thing that gave him pride was knowing that there was someone lower than he was. MOSSADOR: They pay him. Great families afraid to do a thing. They pay poor man to do it for them. HIZDAHR: And how do you know this? MOSSADOR: Everyone knows this. HIZDAHR: I don't know it, and I'm the head of a great family. BARRISTAN: We do not know what this man did or didn't do. (to Daenerys) Give him a trial, at least. A fair trial. Show all of the citizens of Meereen that you are better than those who would depose. Teach them a better way. MOSSADOR: I do not know the place from where Old Ser comes. Things maybe are different there, I hope. But here, in Meereen, before Daenerys Stormborn, they own us. So we learn much about them or we do not live long. They teach me what they are. Mercy, fair trial: these mean nothing to them. All they understand is blood!

So he preemptively and vengefully kills the prisoner, and as you see here, he expresses no regrets about disobeying Daenerys and doing it:

DAENERYS: Why? MOSSADOR (Valyrian): For you, Mhysa. You wanted the Harpy dead, but your hands were tied. I set you free, as you did all of us. DAENERYS: He was our prisoner, awaiting trial. You had no right. MOSSADOR: He would rather rip your city apart than see slaves lifted from the dirt. DAENERYS: There are no more slaves. There are no more Masters. MOSSADOR: Then who lives in the Pyramids? Who wears gold masks and murders your children? When Grey Worm came to us, I was the first to take up the knife for you. I remember the look on my father's face as I struck down his Master, who had traded his infant son for a dog. My father died in the fighting. If we allow the Sons of the Harpy to return us to chains, he never lived. DAENERYS: The Harpy's life was not yours to take. Once, the Masters were the law-- MOSSADOR: And now you are the law! DAENERYS: The law is the law. Take him.

Mossador died differently in the original book series ("A Dance with Dragons -- Daenerys II"):

He's one of the many freedmen murdered by the Sons. And it's not until the 4th episode that her 2nd husband will appear, and he matters bc this is about how she gets on Drogon and re-orient her goals.

b) Attempt at a Summary (How Dany Actually gets to Marry Hizdahr, his role, and Riding Drogon out of the Pit.)

Bk!Dany does have an arc where she at first tries to acclimate or compromise with the former slave masters for the sake of peace in Meereen but comes to realize that her efforts is simply not going to work. She reopens the fighting pits where former slave gladiators would fight after Hizdahr zo Loraq petitions her several times and brings some famous gladiators to beg her to reopen them. She, like in the show, marries Hizdahr and makes him her royal consort when he meets her condition of bringing some 90 days of peace (the high priestess, the Green Grace Galazza Galare suggested a marriage to him). Absolutely no murders or attacks against freedmen nor those few nobles who actually are obeying Dany. In this observation and despite what another noble, Skahaz mo Kandaq, warned about Hizdahr being the the Harpy, leader of the Sons of the Harpy. He was one fo the nobles who decided to abandon the slavery society and "ways" other nobles want to keep going. Again, she wanted that peace and dismissed his warning, and Hizdahr starts to show his true colors in his dismissing Skahaz from his position as the leader of the new Meerenese "city watch", or police, and appointing one of his own cousins. He says that this is to get more of the nobles on her side. (He's not the Harpy, but he's definitely closely tied to them.)

They reopen the fighting pits to celebrate the wedding; Hizdahr insists the fighters volunteered. Hizdahr offers Dany locust treats, it turns out they are poisoned later on when we see Strong Belwas get very sick from them and it's only due to his large and heavyset body that he survives. Dany sees that he's very into the violence, in a way that gets mixed with a sexual excitement at it. During another fight, Drogon appears, Hizdahr calls for people to kill Drogon, and Daenerys jumps into the pit to calm and try to bring Drogon to heel, she's flies off, Drogon basically leading her. Dany, half starved & dehydrated, dreams of her brother and hallucinates Jorah Mormount (those close to her who've betrayed her) but it's also her reflecting on her persistent guilt for the girl Drogon killed that motivated her into the mistake of locking up her dragons. Narrowly escaping a Dothraki scout, she and Drogo fly to another place, eating horse, and that's where the scout's khal, Jhaqo, and his warriors find her. Resumably to try to rape & kill her or to to take her back to Vaes Dothrak to the dosh khaleen and become one of them forever.

In all the time Dany was gone, Hizdahr has been trying to use his marriage to Daenerys to rule Meereen in her absence and a plot (he likely enabled even by just taking instructions) to retake the city gets foiled under Barristan Selmy, Missandei, and Grey Worm's leadership. There are prisoners they take & essentially they are now running the city in Dany's name, waiting for her return. Hizdahr is one of those prisoners. But in the show, Hizdahr died at the pits when a Harpy stabs him.

#asoiaf asks to me #Hizdahr zo Loraq #Hizdahr's characterization #Mossador #got s5e2 #Galazza Galare #Skahaz mo Kandaq #game of thrones 2015 #got #game of thrones

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clavi-crossing · 4 years

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Edna & Harvey Iceberg!!

Leopardenmodus - a joke that was said to be a "secret mode" in many of daedalic's games, people speculate it would turn some things into a leopard pattern and was described in the manuals on how to activate it which was clearly silly and not meant to be taken seriously. it really is fake tho, Poki says it came to be while he was supposed to make a manual for Tony Tough 2 and he used the manual for a pretty broken game called Paradise as a reference which had an entire chapter on how to control the leopard you play as at some point in the game. poki accidentally didn't edit the table of contents so it still mentioned the leopard and then Carsten who he showed it to was like "looks great but i got one question... what's this secret leopard mode?" so instead of admitting he forgot to edit it he was like "oh, you're right" and went back to pull something out of his ass Developer commentary - you can activate Poki's commentary and he tells you about the development of the games from the corner Carsten Fichtelmann voices Bobo - Carsten Fichtelmann is the big boss at daedalic and i swear every single let's player who enters the dialogue with bobo notes that he was in fact voiced by him, poki said so in his commentary, everyone knows it... massive unique dialogue - the first game is known for having a huge amount of unique dialogue for those who are patient enough to combine everything with everything. poki really sat on his ass and typed thousands of lines while he could have gone the boring "this doesn't work" route. which is good, bless poki.

Volcanic theme - the original title "Edna bricht aus" (even tho not too far off from the english title) could be interpreted as the a volcano erupting, not only because Edna sounds very similar to the real life volcano Etna, but Poki also stated that the game progresses like a volcanic eruption. In the beginning the orange sky of the afternoon represents the initial eruption of magma and slowly cools down in the night towards the end of the game where the colours are more blue and muted like the cooled down volcanic stone. Just like the mood progresses from happy funny high energy gameplay to the slow moody vibe at the end. Church screen in HNE - when you go to the left in the graveyard where miranja sits, lilli will end up in one church screen from eba in its original resolution Droggelbecher speaks - Droggelbecher is an iconic character who is known to only ever say "Droggelbecher" but in a few instances, like when combining the earwax cup with the fly in it he says "Dieses Objekt übersteigt mein Fassungsvermögen." Also in the rpg in hne. blonde Edna - when interacting with mirrors Edna will say how she thought she was blonde, some people connect this to lilli HNE copyright protection - back when this was sold physically the box came with security system inspired by monkey island with a shiftable disc where you can generate a code according to the things shown in the lockscreen you need to pass. it has unique graphics but isn't required in digital copies so it may go unused or has been removed entirely. eastereggs in Deponia - in Poki's other passion project Deponia are several eastereggs to the E&H series such as a harvey shaped landscape on the globe in Lotek's office and the singing swordfish in the bar in chaos on deponia who sings the credit song from eba. there might be more tho

Gronkh's LP in E&H Special Edition - Gronkh had a pretty large positive impact on the E&H game's publicity and daedalic in general. He's also friends with poki so maybe as a thank you they included his let's play on the disc. The gray Harvey - in grimms merchland (harveybrichtaus.de) that has alot of daedalic merch for sale are 2 other colour variants of the harvey plush, the original blue one, a pink one (possibly intended to be The Girl Version™) and for some reason dark gray one. It is unknown why they chose to make this one. Gronkh as Doris - in some release of hne, Gronkh collabed with daedalic where they made him a little cameo appearance as an alternate voice of the mean cafeteria lady Doris. Harvey's new eyes are poozie's eyes - in HNE harvey gets a pair of red glowing small eyes that make him speak all monotone and glow when talking. a little robotic too. the same characteristics that alfred's old bear toy named poozie has when interacting with him in the memorial room in eba Haunted washing machine - the washing machine in the asylum basement has its own voice and dialogue colour (gray). usually when talking to something harvey speaks in place of it and also has his dialogue colour. the washing machine is significantly creepy and hostile towards both edna and harvey. it might just be another side of edna's illnes since a closet does the same thing by answering "NOOO" when edna asks if anyone is in there. unaccessable room - in the room with the bars and the many doors there is one door you can't go through, it's not locked, it just doesn't have an interaction on it, people have speculated this might be the room lilli accesses the asylum from via the furnace in HNE. Poki's phone number - when you use the fork with the lamp in the common room in eba you will see poki's actual office phone number from that time. Poki told gronkh a story in a livestream where apparently after gronkh's let's play published on youtube, thousands of people were exposed to poki's phone number. he put that in there on purpose, he had no idea what item reaction to write so he just jokingly went "if you got any funny ideas, please call poki" or something and didn't expect it to get any attention. silly poki. the phone rang for months. Michael Jackson inmate - in an early promotional trailer there was an inmate in a lineup of characters that poki confirmed to have been a reference to micheal jackson who would reside in the basement where that green graffiti of dr marcel is. he also mentioned he is a graffiti artist? third tempomorph - this is directly connected to the micheal jackson inmate and that he would teach edna to moonwalk i think as a third harvey power in a tempomorph sequence.

Blase's love - first things first: meeting someone IN a gas station bathroom can only be one of the same gender.. flushed emoji. but also in the credits it's mentioned that he ran away (literally, even the german original says that) with the love of his life but despite that he just kinda reappears in HNE. it would have made more sense for him to not appear again and instead put stiesel in his position in that game but I think Mr. Zaurins (his VA) was busy :(. Edna and Gerret were real - there are many hints that edna and gerret in hne were actually real and not imagined by lilli as proposed by dr. marcel at the end of the game. like why would edna be like "yeah lilli the dr is right, we're fake, sorry pls get his therapy ://" she is LITERALLY the person who hates him the most, it doesn't make much sense that she would tell lilli to subject herself to his therapy. this is possibly part of dr. marcels evil hypno harvey treatament to make her doubt everything she knows. Not to mention how would that balloon have gotten up into the chandeleir? the bomb out of the ground? the fireworks onto the pigeon? the secret monitor wall in the office???? the cave on the road where edna hides out?? PLEASE Edna & Harvey: The Puzzle - just a jigsaw puzzle game, one where you drag pieces to make a complete picture. for some reason daedalic has been making these of their franchises. nobody ever talks about them. early screens - on the cutting room floor you can find some unused early versions of some of the locations in game, like the waiting area and the staircase corridor. https://tcrf.net/Edna_%26_Harvey:_The_Breakout unused dialogue - there's a few variations of a reaction in the church to the keymaster's body that go unused. and actually there's quite a few item reactions you can't get because those items can't be brought into one room with those other things to react with. like use coin with stiesel. stargate - a cheat in the game's code lets you use debug features such as all items and a stargate in the middle of the cell so poki could easily access the common room when testing. there exists a texture for it that is normally unseen comparisons to Josef Fritzl - tw for sexual abuse: he was an awful human being who held his daughter in his basement for 24 years where he abused her and had multiple children with her and someone compared this case to mattis putting edna in the basement because he doesn't know how to parent. i would like to argue that those are not comparable but considering the game came out in the same year as this awful thing came to light, I can see how people would associate a child in a basement with that. Alfred was a test tube baby - it is mentioned in dr. marcel's datenmann document in the third paragraph where he is referred to as a "Retortenbaby" http://www.was-ist-der-irrtum.de/datenmann/drmarcel.pdf Auf der mörderischen jagd nach R... - the first and only part of a comic series released for the e&h series based around probably before the first game happens in the asylum

Newbie's ghost VA - newbie's voice actor is listed under a fake name in the credits of HNE. his actual VA is Olgierd Cypra but poki says he had to be credited as the non-existent Oliver König (twice because he also sang the edna song) because Olgierd was working for a rival company back then and had to be sneaky Poki didn't sing the credits song... - in the credits of the original it says Oliver König but we all know it's actually Olgierd Cypra but people always assume Poki sang it unused concept character - in concept art from HNE you can see a beta design of lilli (explained further 2 entires lower) next to what looks to be someone with ginger hair infront of the tree at the cliff. they are wearing suka's outfit so maybe it was a very early suka? Was Ist Der Irrtum?/datenmann - on Poki's website is a hidden non linked page where all the characters from eba are listed with their VAs and a description otherwise not seen anywhere else. i wonder what else poki is hiding from us http://www.was-ist-der-irrtum.de/datenmann/ beta lilli - there is this picture of the HNE cover where lilli looks drastaically different with faded wine red open hair and a different outfit backpack companion - in the same picture of that early cover you can see that early lilli holding what looks to be a backpack with harvey's old eyes sown to it, possibly an early scrapped companion Stiesel's brother - through the conversations with stiesel we find out how great his dad is or something but he never actually mentions that he has a brother who his dad much preferred and probably treated better than him. he is described to be his biggest rival http://www.was-ist-der-irrtum.de/datenmann/stiesel.pdf

Edna bricht aus plays in 2019 - my friend mia thought about this and said in a post: "the whispered world posters on edna’s wall. simple, the whispered world came out in 2009. ergo the scenes we see from edna’s childhood have to be around that time they can’t play BEFORE that year. edna, in the actual game, is 19. if she has been in the mental hospital for 10 years now it would conclude that edna was born in 2000 and edna and harvey: the breakout plays in 2019. ergo we had a edna & harvey year and completely missed it :/ “BUT MIA THOSE POSTERS WERE JUST SILLY-” PPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSHH LET ME HAVE THIS!!!" technically i too know these were added after the game already came out when it was offically published by daedalic but shHHHHHHHH Edna & Harvey: Am Seidenen Faden - DerStirio is a guy who likes to send Gronkh those... how do you describe them... interactive care packages? with the help of plenty of gronkh's friends and daedalic themselves they made an amazing little game that was rather lacking in gameplay because there were real world math calculations neccessary with the help of cards from that package but it was still really cool. gronkh played it in a (!!! 17 HOUR LONG !!!) livestream and this was pretty much something just for him, for no one else to download or recieve.. might have been his birthday? cw for flashing graphics at the very beginning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNFbklY5baU Eschers Casting room - the room where you get the coffee in is mentioned by poki in the commentary to be based on a room from a short film he was working on that never released https://www.crew-united.com/de/Eschers-Casting__17596.html he also mentioned that it smelled horrible and was really filthy in general from people not cleaning up after parties Early Intro - Poki says in the eba commentary that he was planning to have a different intro where dr marcel, mattis, alfred and edna are in the dining room of mattis' house but he decided to scrap it, that's why the dining room exists but serves no real purpose Holysoft Audiobooks - Two audiobooks based on both E&H games have been recorded for a series called "Videospielhelden" (episode 10 and 11) published by Holysoft. Main characters had their original VA while pretty much every other minor or supporting character had a completely different voice. Plotpoints have been altered or removed completely just like some characters have straight up not appeared at all. Stiesel erasure - we know 3 guards, Stiesel, Blase and Newbie and all 3 had more or less a good role in eba but only newbie and blase return in hne, stiesel isn't even mentioned. as poki's quote "one of my favourite characters" he sure doesn't ever show up.... he is in the copyright protection tho

copyright disc characters - there are a few characters on the HNE copyright protection paper disc that don't appear or are mentioned in any of the games such as a red haired man with glasses and beard and a white hair man with a baret. Serenata Musical - A 95 minute musical play titled "Edna bricht aus - Schon wieder!" was performed in 2016 at the Anime Messe Berlin by the musical show group Serenata. A recording of their perfomance could once be seen on their website https://www.serenatamusical.de/alle-st%C3%BCcke/edna-bricht-aus-schon-wieder-1/ but since it has been removed i got it here for you, ssshh! https://drive.google.com/file/d/19qKBMGZOX6nfxMWEDkhG9JvC6oWhS9Ac/view?usp=sharing There are no corpses in HNE - A theory that states that there are no actual dead bodies in HNE and that it's all in lilli's head since nobody around seems to react to the bodies and the gore at all. It seems as if lilli is excagerating those events in her head, which is what we see in the game. Dr. Marcel's patient relics room - On page 28 and 29 E&H AdmJnRF (Auf der mörderischen Jagd...) Edna and Freya discover a room that looks like a museum of random objects but they find out it must be relics of past cases Dr. Marcel treated. Which implies so many more patients we never got to meet. Edna and Harvey action figures - just like the harvey plushes and audiobooks, on grimm's website is a spot reserved for action figures of edna and harvey but no picture of it is available. we don't even know if they ever went past the concept stage.

the meaning of "Droggelbecher" - apparently there really is a meaning but Poki just refuses to tell us. since he's a fan of DnD i'd assume it's the cup you roll dice in since it makes a droggel sound? that is just my thought tho, maybe it's just an internal meme coffee room plant - in eba in the dark room where you interact with the coffee machine is a strange texture to the very left that kinda looks like a mesh of plants or salamanders and eyes or something, it's not in the remake, nobody but maybe poki knows what it is. asylum gunk - in the remake they added a bunch of green gross stuff around the asylum walls that usually only apeared in edna's old house at the end. why was it added? and what is it??? changed dialogue - in the demo of eba she says "mir ist aufgefallen wie gekonnt du diese tür bewachst" but i SWEAR in the full game she says "elegant" insead of "gekonnt" so who knows how much alternative dialogue there really is between those versions Diploma build - poki's diploma work was in fact eba! but it took some time until it got actually published to the public so the verson of eba we know is not the one that was graded all the way back when he graduated. no one knows what it's like except for poki probably (it had alot less of the unique interaction dialogue and i think it didn't feature voices?)

EXTRA Plankenschnack with Poki - https://soundcloud.com/plankenschnack/79-plankenschnack-poki (around after 1 hour mention of Kuhschubser's Erbe)

things i forgot: the keymaster survives - a popular theory in which the keymaster survives the fall in the church. it's supported by the fact that at the end of one of the credits it states his body was never found.

#edna and harvey #the breakout #harveys new eyes #harveys neue augen #edna bricht aus #I'm including all the explanations because i'm not a cryptic coward #i also don't expect anyone to know wtf i mean by coffee room plant #sorry the original link broke

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