#marimoasks

[marimopeace]

This week's episode reminded me, why do you think Shigure even dated Mayu in the first place if he was already in love with Akito? It's said in the manga he was cold to her too and that's why she broke up with him, do you think that's an indication he'd be a cold boyfriend to Akito too in their relationship?

ahh damn sorry anon! wow this was prob sent ages ago but i took a break from tumblr so i’m only seeing this now u.u

mmhm i admit i remember more about mayu’s feelings towards hatori when her character was explored in the manga but shigure was probably cold to mayu because she wasn’t akito. he may be conniving in his own way but he’s not a cold person in general and i think he was polite enough to mayu during their (short) relationship just not affectionate / overly eager (again prob bc she wasn’t his one true love yada yada).

it’s kind of like the classic trope situation where there are ppl who are hurt and sad and pining over unrequited loves and they end up getting together for a camaraderie/fwb situation (there’s also a shoujo stereotype where they end up falling in love with each other while their unrequited loves get with each other as well but in this case that doesn’t happen and each person gets a happy endgame). shigure pinned down that mayu liked hatori. hatori was with kana. shigure wasn’t with akito. shigure was like hey mayu do you want to wallow in sympathy for each other lol mayu why don’t we date since neither of us is in a good situation right now. (and maybe he wanted to just distract himself from akito or try to help mayu out if kana and hatori didn’t pan out--without akito’s interference.)

// also sidebar but idk if mayu broke up w shigure just because they didn’t have good chemistry--otherwise she would have probably dropped him sooner since even kana could notice that they weren’t meshing well romantically (and bc she’s the type of person who would cut the bullshit early on). i think mayu broke up with shigure around kana’s incident? it could have been around hatori’s injury or when kana had her memories wiped but either way her friend was feeling messed up in all sorts of ways and it wouldn’t be surprising for mayu to do whatever she can to help her friend get back up on her feet. breaking up with shigure helped her stop being part of a facade with him and also removed any more lingering connections with the sohmas from kana’s life. //

and as for your last question omg i don’t think so at all! one’s dating history can be reflective of a pattern but it could also have no impact on someone’s current relationship. shigure and mayu weren’t that deep (they both knew that going in and coming out), so that wasn’t representative of shigure’s tendencies as a partner nor his personality. mayu also was/is not akito so naturally the man would act different around another woman and his first love.

shigure is probably--and i think it’s been canonically proven--the type to smother his partner (aka akito) with affection and dotes on them whenever possible, to the point where it’s probably annoying for that person and ppl around them lol.

i didn’t read the sequel series another but it explores all the children of the main characters from fruits basket and i’m going to guess it shows snippets of their interactions with their families. i wouldn’t be surprised if it showed scenes of shigure being overbearing/snarky with his kids and adoring-to-a-point-of-comedic-grossness with akito!

idk if you kept up with the fruits basket reboot while it was airing but if you did i hope you enjoyed it! i was keeping up to date to a point but then i had to drop off since school was getting to be a lot and i used my winter break to catch up on it and all the other shows i had put on-hold aha

happy furuba reading/watching!

[marimopeace]

Shigure anon again. The reason why it seemed to me like he only loved Akito because of the dream is because of the words he uses in chapter 111. Why did the author specifically have to harken back to the dream and use that word? Why not just have Shigure simply say "I wish I could've fallen for someone like you" to Tohru, why use the word dream specifically if she was just trying to have Shigure say that he wished he could have fallen in love with someone kinder?

hi again anon!

thankfully for everyone this question requires a lot less rambling to answer:

1. always be aware of what you’re reading

so i can’t actually answer your first question at all tbh bc it’s not up to me to explain the author’s actions (since a reader of any series can only interpret things according to their own opinion) and your question is kind of invalid since the specific words you read were not exactly what the author wrote.

whether you were reading scanlations or the official tokyopop furuba manga, you can’t rely on the words on the page to provide such minute analysis into the story. it’s not the same thing as when you’re consuming in your own native language and can rely on quotes to support persuasive arguments (i.e. seeing captain america say his closing quote to falcon and getting the subtle nuance that sam will be the next cap--yes i’m a nerd i’m sorry this was the fastest example that came to mind lol). 

don’t get too hung up on specific words to dig deeper when the piece has been passed through so many channels. this applies to furuba especially since you’ll never quite get the “exact” meaning of everything (you get close enough but it’s not to the point where you can pick apart individual words and sentences like you want) and also since it’s a shoujo series aimed at younger girls. takaya (the author) did create a series that has darker conflicts and psychological themes but i doubt (and this is just a personal opinion) she would rely on tools such as wordplay or double meanings since that’s not shown in her writing style (compared to a series such as monogatari, which is rich in specific references).

2. context is your friend, don’t forget that!

i’m not trying to dictate the “proper” interpretation of shigure’s character or the events of chapter 111 here, since i am just a normal reader who has had no control over the creation of a series that we both enjoy, but i do want to lessen your confusion anon! your other asks made it seem like you weren’t trying to contest my opinion, but that you were curious to hear my thoughts and were confused by my explanation, so i want to help you get the clarification you want, which seems to be primarily focused on shigure in chapter 111 specifically.

similar to how the mechanics (grammar, word choice, quotes) of translated writing should be approached with an open mind, so should plot details.

you seem to be very focused on understanding shigure’s remarks to tohru about tohru/the dream. remember that the words he says in that moment are an expression of his intentions, but not what they’re built off of, his long-term motivations of the whole series have been built on his personality (a driven individual who is cunning and resourceful, read: manipulative), and his personal experiences (his past with akito yada yada yada). a few panels from one page of a single chapter can be used to try to guess what a character’s about, but you need more than that.

in the same chapter you referenced, shigure has a conversation with hatori that ends with a discussion of kindness, and shigure remarks that his scheming has made for a lonely time, and then the scene closes with him pondering something along the lines of “what it would have been like to have dreamed of a kind soul” (compared to the warped akito who the two had been conversing about previously). this is followed by a bunch of other things, and then the up pops the moment you’ve been referring to where shigure says his thing to tohru. this is an example of looking at whole plot details to understand why a scene happens the way it does, rather than relying on a single moment.

and then if there’s ever still confusion about how something should be understood, look at the other details you the reader have been provided by the author to understand their characters.

so in this specific case:

-have there been previous events to tie into shigure’s words at tohru? has he ever expressed romantic interest in previous plot points to warrant that kind of regret? no. but there have been many focused on hatori’s back and forth dance with akito--shigure admitting that part of him “hates” her (i think it’s actually referenced in the chapter you were looking at too), their sex game with kureno and ren, hatori checking in on his childhood friend if akito is really what he wants, etc etc--so maybe we can think of the regret in his words being more aimed at the underlying question: “what would life be like if i [shigure] never desired her”

-as the author has been building up her characters, has she hinted at bits of shigure’s personality that would warrant an interest in tohru? no, we have seen through the characters’ various antics that shigure is naturally the goofy teasing family figure who also has a stoic caring side for kyo, yuki, and tohru. so what do we know about shigure then? i’ll cut out a lot of things but we do know that shigure is the type to brood on his own about his aspirations. he’s had deep convos with his best bud hatori about his feelings and his underhanded means. we’ve also seen his dedicated love (there are many words to describe his feelings but this it the most general one) to akito, and can guess that it would be odd for him to suddenly throw away his long-term goals.

i’m trying to walk you through my own approach on things anon but truthfully your ask this time is more focused on semantics since you can only read so much from a single line of dialogue in these circumstances (takuya doesn’t pull tricks with dialogue and isn’t a complex writer).

again if there’s still any confusion, always feel free to send in an ask!

happy furuba consuming!

[marimopeace]

You say that Shigure's love of Akito from that dream wasn't unfounded and out of nowhere but if that's the case why was he the only one to be affected by it in that way compared to the other boys? Even in chapter 111 he wishes he could have dreamed of Tohru, implying that that dream could've been about anyone and he would have fallen for them? I don't know, it doesn't really seem like he loves Akito for herself you know?

hi anon and thanks for the ask!

(idk if you happen to be the same anon who originally asked for my take on shigure but since you mentioned the manga i’ll assume you’re ok with spoilers!)

um so my attention span is terrible so i’m just going to break down your ask really fast, i see one direct question and two points.

1. why was shigure the only one to fall in love with akito compared to hatori and ayame?

2. the counterpoint that shigure said he wished he could have dreamed of tohru instead

3. the main point which is that shigure doesn’t seem to truly love akito

so as for the dream...

it wasn’t the dream itself that made shigure fall in love with akito. the dream itself was a sign that the emperor had reincarnated once more in the form of akito in her mother’s womb and at the time, the older sohmas (shigure, hatori, and ayame), were the only ones around to respond to the call. the dream they had reinforced their zodiac spirit’s promised loyalty to her and inspired the bond that originally existed between the animals and the emperor (or god, i’m just used to thinking of it as “emperor” since that’s the original mythology). this resonated with the young boys, and overwhelmed them to the point where they all cried (and we know that the same rush of emotions applies to all other sohmas upon seeing the emperor for the first time). 

shigure described those feelings as a sort of sweet affection. now we’ve all felt that sort of way at some point haven’t we? maybe not as poetically as shigure put it, but that sort of soothing fulfillment when you’re with someone you care about, whether that’s a friend who makes you endlessly laugh or someone you trust whenever you need to vent. the translation of this feeling differs depending on the individual and their circumstances.

that applies to how the dream affected the mabudachi trio too.

this trio of kids (they were like 6 years old?) all got hit with the same dose of longing and adoration, but it resounded with them differently. hatori and ayame saw that affection to be familial, and took on brotherly roles as akito grew up. adult hatori probably felt even stronger brotherly affection since he was the one to look after akito’s health and mental well-being in her older years alongside shigure--remember how he never really lashed out at akito for what happened with kana? it reminds me kind of the dynamic between a spoiled younger sibling and a weary older brother who doesn’t want to cause trouble, but i digress (i tend to tangent a lot, sorry!)

that’s just how the dream affected those two though, as we see in the series that different sohmas have different views of akito.

so for little shigure, he also thought those emotions were something beautiful, and as time passed, he felt something more, beyond the attachment that hatori and ayame felt. he ended up falling in love with akito, hard and true, and this went on for years--to the point where his oldest friends figured that he would do whatever he could to see his end goal happen (make akito his). 

and as for why the dream couldn’t have been about anyone...

i think the first part of the answer addresses this a bit too, but it wasn’t the dream that caused him to fall in love with akito. sorry if my other furuba ask didn’t make that clear--the dream was the catalyst for their relationship in general (as zodiac and emperor), but the emotions inspired from the dream are what motivated a young shigure to make akito “his”.

also i could be so off on this since i read the manga a while ago but i vaguely remember the chapter you mentioned and i interpreted shigure’s meaning differently? i thought him wishing that it was tohru he dreamed of instead was him saying “i wish it could have been a person like you” rather than tohru explicitly. that is, that he wishes he could have fallen for. i don’t think he literally meant “dreamed about”, but that someone like her had been in his dream in the first place. i think that in that moment shigure was taking a step back from his obsession and he was seeing his unpleasant dynamic for what it was and he was having a “hmmm what if i had fallen in love with a person who was kind and giving and could fill the hole in my warped heart because i’m the kind of person who needs that” moment. (notice i didn’t use the words unhealthy or toxic which are my go-to for the akito/shigure relationship--shigure has probably definitely realized over the years that his pattern of hate and manipulation with akito isn’t great but i highly doubt he would ever admit that they would be that bad for each other bc the man is obsessed)

tl;dr: rather than that scene implying that shigure could have dreamed about whoever and he would have fallen head-over-heels like he did with akito, i think the meaning of that interaction was to show a small hint of regret over where his life turned. it was a human moment for him, for the scheming manipulative dog to step back and ponder “what if”. it was also a way to show how tohru was changing the sohma’s views on themselves. shigure has always been accepting of the gritty road ahead, believing that a trash person like him (not my opinion i’m just saying he doesn’t think he’s good either) deserves a stained fate since he’s willing to do whatever underhanded thing to get what he wants. tohru’s kindness makes him wonder what it would be like to have someone as wholesome as that to soothe the darker parts of him.

i feel like i addressed your second point throughout this response but i fully understand where you were coming from. 

ultimately shigure does love akito fully, all her faults and flaws aside.

that DEFINITELY doesn’t mean this love is perfect though. 

// more thoughts under the fold but since i addressed all your immediate questions + if you want to be free from my godforsaken rambling then feel free to scroll past this post lol //

shigure’s love isn’t unfound. we the readers were given a clear backstory on what initially inspired his feelings and we are shown the extent of his love throughout the series as he embarks on his quest to destroy the curse in order to obtain akito.

your point that shigure doesn’t seem to love akito for herself is totally valid in my opinion and i agree because the way their relationship is portrayed in the manga makes it hard to see what he loves about akito other than her, if that makes sense.

we’re continually reminded that shigure loves akito an incredible amount. an obsessive amount. a toxic, overwhelming, and suffocating amount.

and good lord other than shigure saying that he loves akito (which he did say several times) i cannot name a logical reason for his love. and yes love isn’t logical but i’m referring to concrete points about her that make him want to smother her in his devotion so much. this is one of the things that i didn’t like about the manga in retrospect once i let the plot sit with me for a bit. i disagree with some opinions that shigure and akito were a forced couple because i feel like their story have a lot of potential (i have a huge soft spot for redemption character arcs) but their love just felt so flawed and twisted.

there are lots of lopsided relationships in shoujo manga in general but idk for me it was hard to take in all the emotional hits (kureno and ren oy vey) they flung at each other and then not see resolution. :/

i’m going to shut up since this is def beyond what you asked but basically shigure does love shigure for herself but only on the mangaka’s word/face value from what we are shown with him going “i love akito”. there wasn’t enough character development/plot reveal to reinforce his love for her. we can understand why he fell in love with her in the first place but we’re never given context besides that, the story just explains how they’ve been dancing around each other for years (not in an unrequited love way but in a hostile way).

*deep breath* oh god it felt good to write that out but if my long mess of thoughts confused you anon always feel free to send in another ask!

[marimopeace]

After watching episode 10 of the reboot what's your interpretation of Shigure's character? What do you think his goals and intentions could be?

hi and thanks for the ask anon! 

because of the way i am (an extreme overthinker) i’ll be unnecessarily extra with this response since i don’t know anything about your relationship with the series. i really don’t want to spoil anything in the case that you’re new to it entirely / watched the 2006 version but didn’t read the manga, but i still want to give my honest thoughts. i’ll put all things spoiler-y under a line break! i’ll also put tl;drs under each response in case my ranting is nothing like what you wanted to hear lol

// a visual break for your eyes //

so the good things is that whether someone’s fresh to the series or not, episode 10 of the reboot is definitely a plot twist even for viewers of the original furuba. i used to watch that show all the time as a kid and i remember the valentine’s day episode being something completely different–it was treated more as a side story featuring other members of the sohma family and was a way to expand more on tohru’s giving personality + throw in a lot of laughs, while in the 2019 version, it was a continuation of the ongoing plot that revealed more about kyo’s self-perception (especially in comparison to yuki), shigure’s darker motivations on integrating tohru into the sohma clan’s life, and still included some of the funny antics of the family (although much less gag-heavy than the 2006 version which was so nice).

i had actually never read the manga until right before the reboot aired since my younger self was always fine with just going off the old anime (read: i was lazy) so had a younger me seen shigure’s scene in this episode i would have genuinely been shocked because it would have been the first indication of him ever having malicious intentions whatsoever.

in the earlier episodes of the 2019 reboot it is shown that the usually fun and mischievous shigure can be serious and be the authoritative adult in the room (compared to his old anime version which was nothing but a jokester with a soft heart), but in episode 10 shigure was shown to be manipulative and cruel. the second mainly because of that scene where he prodded kyo in what could have been seen as a tough-love-trying-to-be-a-mentor-and-show-you-something-about-yourself-you-didn’t-know, but came off as a somewhat sadistic move to make kyo squirm and be uncomfortable for no reason.

shigure’s scene with hatori (LOVED THIS MOMENT) hints a bit at what his long term goal is. hatori helps the viewer get that both akito and shigure are scheming to take advantage of tohru’s relationships with the family (presumably kyo and yuki specifically since she’s closest to both of them and kyo was referenced a few seconds earlier by shigure in this same scene). shigure fills in more gaps by referencing something that happened when he, hatori, and aya (*SPOILER IF YOU’RE NEW* aka ayame who was revealed in the og anime) were all younger.

we the audience can tell by the wistful nature of shigure’s monologue (which i absolutely adored and made multiple posts out aha) that something about that vision stirred up feelings of affection inside him–feelings that his older self realized were a form of love. this love turned into an obsession (lol), and shigure seems dead set on satisfying this addictive yearning by obtaining said love.

the scene with akito at the end, and shigure’s internal thoughts that followed indicate that this eternal love lies with akito. going solely off the earlier dialogue, one might assume that either he’s going to do everything in his power to physically have akito in his grasp (aka have them be in his possession so he never has to fear anyone taking them away from him), or he will try to manipulate akito into reciprocating his feelings–or maybe even both!

tl;dr (spoiler-free) shigure, based off some mysterious premonition he had when he was younger, is utterly obsessed with the sohma clan head and will do everything he can to make them “his” (perhaps not exactly monopolizing them but definitely at least having akito acknowledge and return his feelings). he’s observed how tohru’s good nature has been affecting the two young sohmas under his roof and plans to use their relationship to his advantage in the politics of this mysterious af family, hopefully outwitting the family head as well. hatori is not a fan of this plan at all and shigure agrees that it’s terrible but he’s like well “i’m a trash person anyways!” so he doesn’t mind. the only indication that he does feel like his plans are morally wrong are when tohru offers him chocolate as well and he realizes that her charitable nature is endless and that she truly is just a good kid.

// cue my unnecessary response under the fold WITH SPOILERS based on the manga so bewarned)

*** i have no idea of whether or not you’ll be able to read under the fold anon so i’ll put the end of this (v long) answer here: hope you got something out of my interpretation and enjoy the rest of furuba! always feel free to reach out about whatever ***

so for whatever reason, be it a warped personality or pure infatuation, young shigure actually responded positively to the dream he and the other sohmas had when they became tied to akito through their zodiac spirits’ default loyalty. he actually aims to preserve that feeling of absolute belonging with akito, claiming them as his most beloved.

i found this tragically beautiful tbh bc shigure was the sole sohma to transform something that caused the rest of the family pain into something that brought him fulfillment. loving something is a very powerful thing and he made it so that he would always be by akito’s side in terms of his loyalties. (which is incredibly kind considering her own tragic circumstances–she has done terrible things but was raised under abuse herself and was isolated from the rest of reality.) i found it sad because he was in unrequited love for years but was stubborn to his ultimate end goal resulting in a back-and-forth relationship of manipulation/ monopolization/sex revenge with akito when someone else would have just given up on the possibility of the relationship working out. i almost used the term “sane person” but while shigure may have an insidious nature, his love for akito isn’t insane, yes it’s toxic but he actually did fall in love with her, it wasn’t unfound and coming from nowhere.

he’s seen how tohru has managed to get kyo and yuki to look at the bigger picture in terms of their relationships with people in general as well as how they see themselves as pets of the sohma name. he himself enjoys her balm-like effect on people (being part of a hellish household probably makes a sweet girl who does everything to care for others whether that be through chores, food, or cheering up seem like an absolute saint), but he–and akito–know that having a card around to mess with the workings of the sohma clan is all too important to have. especially since shigure’s main intent is to overthrow everything the family is about, not to be a part of the “good morals brigade”, but to get a hold of the person he wants to have so dearly.

he knows that akito is aware of his attraction, that doesn’t mean she understands the sincere love behind it. she sees it as an effect of their zodiac relationship/part of her delusion that the sohmas are all pawns to fend off her loneliness and prove she hasn’t been abandoned. if akito weren’t the emperor and was just akito the person, then shigure might have a chance of slipping in and making his dream a reality.

tl;dr (based on spoilers) shigure has had a bad case of puppy love for years and wants to milk tohru’s budding relationship with the sohmas to help his plans of destroying what the family is all about (blood feuds and lots and lots of drama), perhaps even ending the curse (i say perhaps bc i can’t think off the top of my head whether or not in the manga shigure did try to plan to break the curse on the whole family–i’m leaning no but my head is fuzzy on this rn). all this so that he can not only hold akito in his arms, but her love in his hands, so she’s truly “his” to have.

happy furuba watching anon!