#mumbatan

[hero-villian-blog]

Miguel Is Wrong About Canon Events

So, we've all made jokes about Spider-verse's canon events, the whole "I can't let you do that it's a canon event" joke. However, these jokes alongside what people think a canon is, is not actually what a canon event is.

Miguel tells us precisely what canon events are in the movie, while showing some examples. "They are the canon, chapters that are a part of every Spider's story every time." In other words it's not just any event that happens in a Spider's story or history of a world, it has to be very specific events that are shared by all Spiders. The examples Miguel gives includes the spider bite, the upside down kiss, Venom, the death of a close loved one, and the death of a captain.

Now here's where I start speculating based on things that don't add up. What canon event did Miguel break to destroy the universe he went into? Miguel makes it seem like just being in another universe breaks a canon event, but that doesn't actually add up with what he said. As he said, a canon event is something that happens in every Spider's story and that it can't be disrupted. Simply being in another universe wouldn't do that unless he was actively breaking canon himself in that world.

Continuing on, we don't actually see what happens when someone breaks canon, at least that's what it seems like to me. You may be saying, but Miles breaks a canon event or there's Mumbattan. But here's the thing, what happened in Mumbattan does not look similar to what happened in Miguel's footage it's different. What we see in Mumbattan is the work of the Spot, and is not caused by Miles saving the Captain. Even Miles points it out to Miguel that it was caused by the Spot.

Now if we take a look at Miguel's footage, there is something interesting that we see. The universe glitches as it is destroyed, the same kind of glitching we see in the first movie that was caused by specifically Kingpin's collider. Now we know Miguel is using similar but more advanced technology to what Kingpin was using. So what if Miguel didn't break a canon event but rather did something with his technology that destroyed the universe. From there Miguel either misinterpreted what happened, or is lying about what actually happened.

Also, canon events have been broken already in this movie without a world being destroyed. If we take Miguel's claim that what happened in Mumbattan was Miles breaking a canon event and not the Spot as a fact. Then shouldn't the breaking of what could be argued the most major and important canon event there is, result in the immediate destruction of that world. Or at least Mumbattan but sped up? What am I talking about? The spider bite of course, even Miguel has it labeled as a canon event. So tell me why does Earth-42 still exist? It has no Spiderman, the spider bite canon event never happened, yet it is still intact with Prowler Miles running around. We also can't make the suggestion that Miguel saved Earth-42, because he didn't get the ability to travel across the Spider-verse until after the events of the first movie.

Speaking of Miguel, he was never bitten by a spider. Instead he injects himself as we see him do in the movie. Isn't that breaking away from the canon? Also, at the end of the movie Gwen realizes that Miguel is wrong when her father quits, that these canon events aren't set in stone. Btw, can we stop the Gwen hate? She is meant to be a flawed character who while in a bad place made some bad decisions, and is now correcting herself. Seriously you guys are spiteful.

Sorry, time to get back on track. There is also the meta text of the movie, the idea that the story has to go one way. That the canon must be abided by, the Spider Society's authority, or you could say the Comics Code Authority. With Miguel representing it, as he tells Miles that he is the original anomaly and that he's not supposed to be Spiderman. The rest of this post info is in a reply because I keep getting an error.

[queenimmadolla]

spoilers for into the spider-verse

but the best part of seeing people (and Miguel + his team) be so loudly wrong when they say Miles is the reason a blackhole is eating a world is bc it means they haven’t watched into the spider-verse in a minute. In the first movie, the scientist behind the collider (Doc) states if they actually use the collider, instead of just the tests they’ve been running, it will create a black hole beneath New York.

in Mumbatan, the collider is not only actually used, it’s energy is also abused so excessively, it blows up. THATS the reason why there’s a giant black hole in the city. I promise that gigantic beast of a black hole didn’t form in the 2 minutes it took Miles to save the Captain. It started the moment Spot went into the collider.

It’s literally explained in the first movie, and it’s not because of Miles or the ‘canon’ event change.

[mekatrio]

i feel like this itsv scene may become very significant in btsv..... while this scene is happening, the spot is being created in a lab nearby.

cuz like, its a very long shot. 10-ish seconds of peering into the multiverse. 10-ish seconds of Miles peering into the multiverse. it could just be the film's way of leading up to atsv, but what if its more than that.. what if something happened to miles here, the way something happened to the spot here?

after all, miles has a recurring pattern of unusual things happening to him when he's near alchemax colliders. in the beginning of itsv, he hears voices from the future, of spider-people he has yet to meet, spider-people who don't even exist in this dimension yet, cuz the goblin didnt stick ripeter's head in the collider yet.

and at mumbatan's alchemax collider, miles briefly shares consciousness with the spot and is able to see brief glimpses of the future... but this only happens to miles, and not the other spider-people.

with miles being considered an anomaly….. did something significant happen in this scene, as he peered into the multiverse?

[mekatrio]

a very curious part of itsv to me is this part bc truly what is happening... how is miles hearing the voices of characters who will appear much later in the movie?

i understand that this is his first activation of spidey-sense and spidey-sense is Kinda? clairvoyance in the way that it alerts someone of oncoming dangers. except its not really clairvoyance since its more heightened sensory perception paralleling a spider's (a spider's range of view is larger than a human's and all that) so like... what is all this abt?

some of the voices heard here will be played out immediately after this scene ("you're like me" "but i don't wanna be" between peter and miles), while some are from way later (gwen's and peni's "you're like me"). one is even from the past ("why is this happening to me!" happens when miles' spider power are causing him problems in school a few scenes ago). when i have time.. ill probably track down where each of these lines came from. but off the top of my head i cant recall a time when someone tells miles to look out.. and according to itsv's screenplay that doesnt happen either.. so 🤨🧐

i got three main ideas abt this scene. at first, i thought it was just a story mechanic. after all, in the opening of atsv, we can see quick flashes of events that will play out in atsv during gwen's opening intro. so i thought it was just that. except... that at the end of atsv, gwen's narration from the beginning of the movie is continued (and subsequently concluded). meaning, that the opening intro we saw of gwen is not coming from this pre-atsv events gwen that we're seeing, but rather a post-atsv events gwen who is reflecting on the events of the movie, imposed over an earlier version of her. and this isnt whats happening in this itsv scene. there is no imposing narration in itsv that takes place from another point in time. when the various spider-people of itsv narrate their backgrounds ("alright, let's do this one last time") it's always happening in the moment, while the movie is playing out. so this moment has to be more than a story mechanic.. miles is very much hearing voices from the future.

other ideas and speculation under a read more bc this got long heehee

so idea 2: maybe it's spider-sense mixing with the proximity to the collider that allows miles to hear dialogue from another point in time. after all, this collider is capable of messing with time's linearity. when gwen was thrown into miles' universe, she was thrown in a week further back than everyone else. we also know that this collider was turned on and tested before the events of this movie (when a friend of miles' from the beginning of the movie mention 'the earthquake last night'). so that might be it.

(but also hey now that i think of it... didnt the events of this movie kinda create a stable time loop? gwen only enters earth-1610 after 1610's peter parker is put into the particle collider. but this happens After we see gwen (who is from another universe) hanging out in earth-1610. so gwen is kinda in a stable timeloop or something..?!)

but anyways idea 3.. which is kinda an expansion of idea 2: is this possibly related to the scene in atsv, where miles' and spot's consciousness briefly overlap in mumbatan? there, when spot enters the collider and miles gets blasted away, miles is able to see snippets of the 'future'. future in quotation marks bc we havent actually seen any of this happen yet (aside from inspector singh's nearly dying), but all of miguel's talk in the movie does strongly lean to it all inevitably happening. anyways, both times when miles is able to have some kind of glimpse into the future, it happens in the proximity of an alchemax particle collider....

anyways speculation time. so my theory is this: in atsv he's doing a new thing with his venom powers, where he absorbs energy from something then sends it back. so maybe that aspect of his venom powers, of being able to absorb the energy of something, when combined with the proximity of the time-bending particle collider, is what allows miles to see further in the future. miles is able to somewhat absorb the time-bending properties of alchemax's particle collider, which we see lowkey it here in this scene, where miles is able to hear brief snippets from the future. then we see it highkey in atsv, when spot practically gets merged with the collider and miles kinda briefly shares consciousness with him, where miles is able to see inspector singh's demise (which unfolds just moments later), and the other events that spot is conspiring to do. perhaps that is whats at play here?

mumble mumble another speculation abt maybe miles possesses the power to alter canon events bc of this which is too long to get into rn bc this post is already long enough so ill post abt that some other time mumble mumble

also, seeing how the "miles, look out" line from this scene is not from itsv, if it isnt from atsv either (ill have to rewatch to check if it is), then i think that line will play a big role in btsv.

anyways, regardless of whether my speculations are actually accurate or just insanity, i do think that this scene is foreshadowing an important plot point in btsv, the same way the inconspicuously glitching spider in itsv (from just a few scenes before this one!) ended up playing a big role in atsv.

[mekatrio]

gwen especially like my god this girl spent the most time with miles this entire movie and at every turn shes chooses to not be honest with him like GIRL... lying to his face abt the spider-society and what they do and why she's even in his dimension.. and she was really about to leave miles' dimension behind forever without ever telling him the truth like GIRL?!?? and the attitude she has with miles in mumbatan is so nasty.. like i get shes abt to be fired bc of him so shes not being an ass out of nowhere but still omg. 0 empathy towards miles HE MISSED U SO MUCH...?!?!?

and what did she think would happen when miguel called them both to his office.. did she think miguel would be sympathetic to miles? she couldnt even think to give miles the briefest of rundowns on his whole role in this like... miles was so right to snap off her spider string like MY GOD!!