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lady-hammerlock · 3 years

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Like a Church on Fire - Chapter Three (The Outer Worlds - Millsoto )

AN: Chapter Three is here! As usual the full story is available below the cut. A friendly reminder that this story continues to be NSFW. In this chapter Max is a coward and the two of them discover that Felix had a praise kink. Enjoy!

CHAPTER THREE

Max had originally planned to leave Monarch as soon as he had seen the team of scientists to safety. He had initially come to Monarch because of their distress call after all. Part of him insisted that he should still leave; that there were people and communities out there who needed his help.

However, the night that he had spent with Felix had broken his resolve. Now, more than anything else, he just wanted to stay with Felix. Giving in and spending the night together had removed any awkwardness that had existed between them, and Max had spent the entire morning after trying to work out whether he should find some sort of excuse to stay on Monarch or whether it would be more appropriate to ask Felix to accompany him on his own journeys.

Either way, he knew now that he desperately wanted to stay by Felix’s side, whatever that looked like. Assuming of course that Felix would have him. One night of very, very good sex did not make a relationship after all, no matter how much they might have gazed adoringly into each other’s eyes afterwards.

Max had been incredibly tempted to tell Felix that he loved him in those blissful minutes after their coupling. It was only the thought of a rejection and how much that would ruin the moment that had stopped him. After all, it was clear that Felix desired him, but there was a very large gap indeed between desiring someone and being madly in love with them.

It was this thought, and the fear of discovering that his feelings for Felix were entirely one-sided that stopped him from saying anything the next morning either.

The problem was that he had absolutely no plans and no idea where he should travel to next, and he had almost talked himself into offering to help Commander Zora and the Iconoclasts with the restoration and expansion of Amber Heights when Felix came to his rescue.

Felix knew that he wouldn’t be able to stand being separated from Max again so soon. Not after what they had done the night before, and not with his heart feeling like it was alternating between glowing and threatening to explode whenever he was around Max.

“You know, Commander Zora has been talking about trying to clear out Cascadia for a while,” Felix said, while the two of them got lunch together in Stellar Bay, in a mutual effort to delay the moment of their separation. “Kick the marauders and the wildlife out, clean it up and turn it back into a proper settlement.”

Max seemed to already be thinking the idea through. Felix knew that Max was smart. He could only hope that he wasn’t smart enough to see Felix’s bringing it up right at that moment for the desperate attempt to keep Max on Monarch that it was, or that if he did, that he wouldn’t judge Felix too harshly for it.

“It would certainly help to avoid any further incidents that resemble what happened with Doctor Renshaw and her team,” Max commented.

“See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about,” Felix said. “Only problem is that Commander Zora hasn’t had the people to spare on something risky like that. They’re all too busy keeping Amber Heights afloat.”

Max sent a sly smile in Felix’s direction, one which sent a shiver all the way down Felix’s back.

“But if one were to put together a small team led by a couple of intrepid freelancers…” Max began, and Felix couldn’t help but smile back at him when he realised Max’s mind was going exactly where Felix had wanted it to.

“Exactly!” he said. “More and more people are coming to Monarch these days, but if we can get Cascadia back up and running again then the expansion of Amber Heights won’t be so desperate any more, right?”

“I am certain that with the two of us pitching and leading such a mission, Mister Nandi and Commander Zora will be able to spare at least a few people and resources to help us out,” Max suggested.

‘Us.’ Max had said ‘us.’ Felix tried to stop his excitement at the prospect that Max would be staying on Monarch from showing too much.

“So you’re in?” Felix asked.

Max smiled and nodded and took another bite of his saltuna.

“I didn’t have anything planned beyond helping out Doctor Renshaw and her team,” he said once he had finished his mouthful. “So count me in.”

Felix, to his own embarrassment, had just sat there watching him while he ate, but now he felt his smile growing. He only hoped that he wasn’t giving away his feelings for Max. The last thing that he wanted was to scare the older man off.

Sanjar barely needed to think about Felix and Max’s proposal. The prospect that someone was willing to clear out Cascadia with no cost to Sanjar except for the manpower that Felix and Max requested must have seemed like a blessing to him.

“Oh, no doubt Rizzo’s will try and claim it as their property as soon as we’ve cleared it out and made it liveable again,” Sanjar commented, “but you leave them to me. I’m sure that I can work out some sort of deal with them that will be favourable to us.”

Upon returning to Amber Heights and pitching the idea to Commander Zora they found her just as favourable to the idea as Sanjar had been.

“Fortifying the roads between here and Cascadia isn’t going to be half as easy as the ones between here and Stellar Bay,” she mused for a moment as she examined a map of the surrounding area. “But with all the extra interplanetary travel going on these days getting Cascadia up and running again can only be a good thing. Can you imagine what we could accomplish if we had another settlement that far south? We could house so many more settlers, and the Iconoclasts could provide guards to make sure that the settlement doesn’t get overrun again.”

She trailed off, already making plans to set up caravans and armed patrols between Amber Heights and Cascadia, calling to her lieutenants to get their input and ask for potential volunteers. She paused only when Felix and Max made to leave the room, looking up at them with concern clear on her features.

“Are you sure you two want to be a part of this?” she asked, as though they hadn’t been the ones to pitch the idea in the first place. “It’s not going to be easy. Cascadia is dangerous at the best of times.”

“Yeah we know,” Felix said.

“Thank you Miss Blackwood,” Max said at the same time. “But we’re well aware.”

Zora shrugged, as though to say that if they wanted to risk their lives then it was no skin off her back, and let them go.

It was going to take a couple of days to prepare everything for the mission to clear out Cascadia. The MSI and Iconoclast volunteers were all due to meet in Amber Heights in two days. In the meantime there was nothing for Max and Felix to do but wait.

Well, that wasn’t entirely true. Felix could have gone back to helping out with the construction of the outer walls, but he didn’t want to do that and leave Max all on his own. They helped out with the preparations as much as they could, but it was clear that the Iconoclasts, and especially the MSI, held them both, especially Max, in a certain amount of awe and high regard.

Max knew this. He also knew that no doubt Commander Zora would have been happy enough to offer Max a room to stay in while the preparations were underway, as she had that first night Max and the scientists had stayed in Amber Heights. Felix wasn’t as foolish as a lot of people might believe, and so, Max reasoned, Felix must have also realised this.

That did not, however, stop Felix from approaching him during their first afternoon back in Amber Heights, looking like he had something either very important or very embarrassing to bring up with Max.

“So, I was thinking about where you were going to stay tonight,” Felix began, rubbing at the back of his head and looking anywhere but directly at Max. “And I thought, I mean, unless you’ve already picked out somewhere to stay, I thought that you could stay in my quarters if you wanted?”

Max froze. He hadn’t thought about staying in Felix’s quarters at all, but now that he was thinking about it, the prospect of seeing where the younger man had lived over the past couple of years was something he found himself suddenly, desperately invested in.

Unfortunately Felix must have mistaken his silence for indecision, because he continued on as though Max still needed convincing.

“I know it’s not as fancy as what you’re probably used to,” Felix said. “And there’s only one bunk, but if that’s a problem then I can just grab some blankets and sleep on the floor or something.”

“Mister Millstone,” Max said, surprised that Felix thought he might be uncomfortable sharing a smaller bunk with the younger man considering everything else that the two of them had experienced together.

“Come on Max. How many times do I have to tell you? It’s just Felix,” the younger man complained. “Mister Millstone is way too formal.”

“Felix,” Max tried again, reaching out to take one of Felix’s hands in his own. He ran his thumb over Felix’s skin, appreciating the worn texture of it, and noting with some pleasure how Felix’s breath caught in his throat at such a small, tender gesture.

“I’m sure your bunk will be sufficient for both of us,” Max concluded, his thumb still caressing Felix’s hand as he spoke.

Max had not been expecting luxury. The room that he and Felix had shared in Stellar Bay had been exceptional, even by his standards. Still, Felix’s quarters were rather small, especially considering that their owner had played a not insubstantial part in saving the system.

They were very clearly Felix’s though, with tossball posters lining the walls and various keepsakes from their travels and the two years since placed wherever there was space. Max smiled as he noted the couple of entry level science books he had given to Felix when he had first expressed an interest in learning, placed on a small shelf alongside a couple of anti-authoritarian manifestos, a handful of memoirs and biographies from tossball players, and one single, small volume on scientism that Max did not remember giving to him, or, for that matter, ever owning as part of his collection.

The fact that Felix had elected to continue his education without Max’s input was encouraging, and the fact that he had decided to at least investigate scientism as a topic was interesting to say the least. Max didn’t believe in its principles anymore, and he was fairly certain that Felix had never, and would never, believe in a religion that was so restrictive, so its place alongside the other books was a curiosity. Max wondered rather selfishly for a moment whether Felix might have chosen to read that book in particular because it reminded him of Max or had been hoping for a better understanding of him.

It was an utterly foolish thought. No doubt there was some sort of random happenstance that saw the book finding its way into Felix’s collection that had absolutely nothing to do with Max.

He cast his eyes instead to the tossball stick that was mounted on one wall. Max remembered how good Felix had been with it; using it as a weapon rather than a piece of sports equipment of course; and found himself smiling again as he recalled some of their adventures as part of the Unreliable’s crew. A lot of the situations they had found themselves in hadn’t seemed like happy memories at the time; they were far too dangerous; but now Max found himself missing their little makeshift family and the camaraderie that had developed between them. He had been alone for a lot of his life before then, and he had found himself mostly alone since they had gone their separate ways as well.

“I know it’s probably not much compared to what you’re used to,” Felix said. “But it’s my own space and I don’t have to share it with anybody at all if I don’t want, so that’s nice.”

Max had stayed in far worse during his travels, and Felix was clearly proud of his humble little home, but still Max’s heart ached for him. This was clearly a step up for him compared to how he had been living when their Captain had picked Felix up on the Groundbreaker, but Max couldn’t help but feel that Felix deserved more. As far as he was concerned, Felix deserved the world, and the fact that Max couldn’t give it to him seemed more than a little unfair.

“You know,” Max began slowly and carefully, not entirely sure if he even wanted to say what he was about to, “any person who served as a crew member on board the Unreliable could probably have whatever accommodations they put their mind to, and well…”

He didn’t want Felix to think that Max was his only option. Frankly, he was surprised to discover that the younger man hadn’t found someone else to love in the two years since they had gone their separate ways. A tiny, selfish part of him wanted it to be because Felix was carrying a torch for him, secretly pining for Max in a way that Max had found himself pining for the younger man at the oddest of moments.

“They could probably have anyone that they wanted as well,” Max concluded.

He had intended to continue, to mention how Felix’s role as a member of the Unreliable’s crew brought with it a certain amount of fame and privilege that Felix could undoubtedly call upon should he ever find his situation lacking, but Felix didn’t give him the chance.

“Yeah,” Felix snapped. “I’m sure you could be anywhere you want and with whoever the hell you want, but you’re not.”

Felix stared him down, a fierce determination in his eyes that Max had no idea how to respond to.

“You’re here with me,” Felix concluded, before pressing his mouth to Max’s own.

It was not the soft, gentle kiss that Max had been anticipating. Felix kissed Max like he had the first time they had lain with one another; as though the younger man was attacking him; all teeth and tongue and desperate gasping, his hands already roaming over Max’s torso.

“I wasn’t talking about myself,” Max said once they parted, feeling the warmth of Felix’s breath against his skin as the younger man took a moment to catch his breath. Max carded his fingers through Felix’s hair, still just as soft and as much of a mess as it had been the day that they had picked him up on the Groundbreaker.

Felix let out an unintelligible questioning sound against Max’s neck.

“You could have so much better than this if you wanted,” Max murmured, continuing to run his hands through Felix’s hair.

And what if all I want is you?

Felix stopped the words from leaving his mouth, but it had been a close thing.

“This is fine,” Felix said, the words coming out as little more than a whisper.

For a moment he found himself getting caught up in a daydream in which he and Max lived together in a fancy house in Byzantium, but then he found himself mentally scoffing at such an idea. Like he could ever stand living in Byzantium, even if it was with Max. The people there were all so fake and so awful.

No, better if they had their own ship. They could travel around helping people and just generally being kickass together, and…

And it was a ridiculous thing to think about because he and Max weren’t even a proper couple, let alone at the stage where they should start thinking about buying a spaceship together.

Still, there was something about seeing Max in his room that made Felix feel incredibly warm.

“Hey,” Felix said, before clearing his throat. He needed to say something otherwise he was going to get caught up in imagining impossible things.

“Do you want something to drink?” he asked Max.

Felix’s bunk was only a little larger than those that they had each had on board the Unreliable. Neither of them minded though, and while it was a far cry from the bed they had shared in Stellar Bay, they made do.

Max lay on Felix’s bed and gazed up in wonder as the younger man rode him into oblivion. His eyes were so dark, his lips were parted, and he stared down at Max with such hunger that for a moment Max was almost convinced that Felix loved him back. He almost gave in and said the words in that moment, but he was barely able to speak, let alone to give words to such an overwhelming emotion.

Felix curled up on top of Max afterwards, his head resting on Max’s shoulder and their limbs entangled with one another, and Max lay there, watching Felix fall asleep on top of him and slowly running a hand through Felix’s hair. He didn’t know how long he lay there, but in those minutes or hours or however long it was, he was forced to come to the conclusion that he was madly in love with Felix Millstone.

Oh, Max had known that he was in love with the younger man, but the bittersweet ache that settled in his heart hit him with such a strength that he didn’t know what to do with it.

Curse it all. He was such a fool. He should have seen this for what it was back on the Unreliable. He should have said something before they had gone their separate ways and spent two years apart. He should have…

But there was no point in lingering on what he should have done. What he had actually done was take the easy way out and leave without ever actually telling Felix how he felt.

It had been the night before they were going to launch their assault on Tartarus. Everything had come together so quickly, with Phineas Welles and the Board and the Hope, that Max felt as though he could barely keep track of it all.

It was hard to believe that it was all finally happening. After all of their hard work they had managed to recover the Hope, and now all that remained was to break Phineas Welles out of the most secure, heavily fortified prison in the system.

It seemed as though it might end up as nothing more than a suicide mission. Perhaps that was why he and Felix finally found their way back into each other’s arms.

Things between the two of them had settled into a new version of normal. It had taken Felix a while to get used to Max’s new attitude and outlook on life. At first it had seemed as though Felix was just waiting for him to snap and revert back to the old Max; to anger and sarcasm and impatience, but Max didn’t want to be that person anymore. He knew that he could be so much more than that; that life could offer him so much more than the strict tenants of a biased religion if he just opened up and let the universe take him where it would.

Felix might not have been the sort of companion that he would have imagined for himself, but he was starting to think that the universe knew better than him when it came to a lot of things; his own happiness included.

Max and Felix had settled, to both of their surprise, into something that must have looked very much like an actual friendship from the outside. They enjoyed the tossball broadcasts together, although Max found himself much less invested in the outcome these days, and found himself enjoying Felix’s excitement more than he once might have; keeping any words about Felix’s unrealistic optimism and die-hard fanboy-ism to himself, and when things were a little more quiet on board the ship, sometimes Max would find Felix knocking at his door, asking to borrow one of Max’s books or seeking clarity on one of the scientific principles that they had been discussing of late.

There was a hunger for learning there that Max could barely believe had gone unsated for so long. As far as he could see all that Felix had ever really needed was someone to put him on the right path. Someone who wouldn’t betray him or take him for granted, unlike those he had looked up to until now. He didn’t know if he could be that man; not considering that their relationship had, at least for one night, taken a very carnal turn, but he was going to try his hardest.

There was something else that he had noticed about Felix as well. Ever since Max’s revelation Felix had been mentally poking and prodding at Max’s boundaries, testing him and gently trying to get a rise out of him, as though he was just waiting for Max to snap and go back to their old bantering, and as much as Max would admit that he had found said bantering enjoyable at most times, it pained him to admit that not all of the banter, especially in the beginning of their acquaintance, had been particularly good-natured.

It seemed to him that Felix didn’t know what to do or how to act when someone was actually kind to him for once, and that realisation made Max’s heart ache for the younger man.

On that night; the night before the fateful raid on Tartarus, the Unreliable had pulled into Groundbreaker, where the crew had been allowed to enjoy a night of drinking and what their Captain called ‘celebrations.’ True, it could be said that they were celebrating successfully liberating and then jumping The Hope, but the feeling in the crew was generally one of nervous anticipation rather than jubilation. It seemed, to Max at least, that they were all incredibly conscious of the fact that this could be their last night of freedom, or, if things went especially poorly, of life in general.

Nyoka and Ellie had both accepted their Captain’s invitation to go drinking, and Parvati had, to no-one’s surprise considering how well her budding relationship with the station’s chief engineer seemed to be going, taken the opportunity to spend the evening alone with Junlei.

Which meant that Felix and Max were left alone on the Unreliable, with the exceptions of SAM and ADA.

Max had decided that if he was going to face his doom, or at the very least an unassailable prison the next day, then he wanted to do it with a level head. He wasn’t entirely sure why Felix had declined the invitation to go out drinking with the rest of the crew, and in fact he hadn’t even been aware that Felix had until the younger man had stuck his head into Max’s room.

Max had been intending to spend the evening reading and then attending to the horribly drunken crewmates he expected would come stumbling back to the ship at some ungodly hour in the morning. He wasn’t about to decline the perfectly sober company of one of said crewmates however, especially one that he had grown as fond of as he had Felix.

“Hey Max,” Felix said, hovering halfway through the doorway, as if he wasn’t sure whether or not he would be welcome.

“Felix,” Max said, nodding in greeting and then gesturing to the chair that he had set up on the other side of the desk. Initially he had intended the set up to facilitate whatever guidance or confessionals his fellow crew members required of him in his role as a vicar, but these days it was mostly taken up by Felix stopping by to discuss science or tossball or whatever took his fancy, or, on occasion, their Captain, either checking in on him or, a rarity for Max these days, actually asking for guidance.

Felix still seemed to hesitate, but then he made a beeline for the chair and sat straight down in it. He didn’t settle though, instead fidgeting anxiously, and he wouldn’t meet Max’s eyes.

“I’m surprised you didn’t go out with the others,” Max said, mostly in an attempt to ease the tension.

“Well, lately Spectrum Vodka has led to me making some pretty terrible decisions,” Felix said, finally meeting Max’s eyes and offering him a smile, albeit one that still looked relatively nervous.

Max couldn’t help but think back to the night that he had awoken to find an incredibly drunk Felix crawling into his bunk. They’d never really discussed it beyond a single, slightly awkward conversation the morning after. Max smiled at the memory, and had to suppress a chuckle.

He waited for Felix to say more, but the younger man was suspiciously quiet in the seat across from him, and seemed more interested in staring at his own hands than anything Max might have to offer.

“Is something on your mind?” Max prompted.

“Yeah,” Felix said, before letting out a very long and very loud sigh. “It’s just, with everything that’s happening tomorrow, I don’t want to have any regrets.”

Max was just considering how he could most gently ask Felix for more information when Felix leaned across his desk, grabbed Max by the front of his vestments and pulled Max up to press a rather passionate kiss against his lips.

It was over too soon, and Max hadn’t even closed his eyes before Felix was retreating. His hands continued to clutch at Max’s clothing, but his eyes darted down to Max’s lips and then up to his eyes, his nervousness so clear on his face that Max wasn’t sure whether to console him or kiss him senseless.

“Oh,” was all that left Max’s mouth in the end.

He reached down to untangle Felix’s hands from his clothing, encouraging the younger man’s fingers to becoming entangled with his own instead. He leaned forward a little further, looking carefully at Felix’s face for any sign that he was overstepping or that Felix had changed his mind, before pressing his lips gently against Felix’s own.

Felix let out a soft whimper as they both closed their eyes. Their hands clutched each other tightly where they now rested on the desk in between them.

Max forced himself to go slow, despite the urgent passion and desperation of Felix’s initial kiss. Whatever this lead to, the last thing that Max wanted was a repeat of their first time sleeping together. That had been ill-advised to say the least, and while Max didn’t regret it, he did regret the lack of care that he had taken during their tryst, and the fact that he had let Felix leave afterwards without trying to at least talk through what had happened between them.

He resolved that this time was going to be different. He had been given an opportunity to show Felix a level of kindness and affection that he suspected Felix had never experienced before, and he would be a fool to waste it.

He pulled back from the kiss slowly. Felix chased his lips, but only for a moment. When his eyes opened, they opened wide, and he stared at Max again as though fearing that Max was going to leave him with only that kiss, an expression that only grew worse when Max pulled his hands away from Felix’s own and took a couple of steps back from the desk.

“Max,” Felix began. “I… I…”

Max smiled softly at the younger man and then moved around the desk, so that he was standing right next to Felix. He grabbed one of Felix’s hands in his own again, entwining their fingers once more, before leaning close and pressing a brief, gentle kiss to the corner of Felix’s mouth.

It was just a sweet, simple gesture, but Felix’s eyes closed nevertheless, and he let out another tiny whimper when Max pulled back once more.

“Come with me,” Max prompted Felix as he headed towards the bunk at the back of his room, Felix’s hand still clinging tightly to his own.

Felix’s face lit up immediately.

Ten minutes later Max had a mostly naked Felix lying on the bunk beneath him. Max was busy pressing gentle kisses to every patch of skin his mouth could reach, while Felix’s hands clutched at his hair and stroked the side of his face.

“Max,” Felix kept crying out, his voice close to breaking. “Please!”

Max pressed a kiss just above Felix’s bellybutton, which prompted the hand that had been stroking Max’s face to disappear. Max looked up to discover that one of Felix’s arms was now hiding a large portion of his face from Max’s gaze; mostly his eyes.

Max moved further up Felix’s body, stopping the kisses, at least for now.

“Felix?” he asked, realising as he did that Felix had started to cry. “Are you all right? Do you need me to stop?”

“No!” Felix cried out, immediately removing the arm from across his face. “I mean yes. I’m all right. You don’t have to stop. Please.”

Max reached up and brushed away the tears from Felix’s face.

“It’s just…” Felix started, before taking a deep breath and trying again. “It’s just a lot.”

Max reminded himself that this; someone being gentle to Felix and treating him with care, was probably incredibly new to him. That was the whole point of this exercise after all. Still, he hadn’t expected Felix to respond like this.

“Tell me if you need me to stop or slow down,” Max told him.

Max wasn’t sure if his offer actually helped Felix at all. He did hear Felix inhale sharply, but the look on his face seemed to be one of such confusion that it made Max’s heart ache.

He moved up Felix’s body and kissed away any traces of tears that remained, his hands moving slowly and gently over Felix’s bare skin as he did.

“Hush Felix,” he whispered, before pressing another kiss to Felix’s cheek. “It’s all right. I have you, and I’m going to take such good care of you.”

Felix let out a strangled cry in response to that, before turning his head and capturing Max’s mouth in a passionate, demanding kiss. When they parted Max found Felix’s hands clutching at his clothing.

“Clothes off,” Felix demanded. “Now.”

Max smiled down at him, before grabbing Felix’s hands and pulling them away from his clothing as gently as possible. He knew that he could not deny such a simple request though, and immediately began to remove his own clothing.

He sat back in Felix’s lap, where the evidence of Felix’s arousal pressed up against Max’s thigh. Max knew that he didn’t have to worry about whether or not Felix was actually enjoying Max’s more gentle approach; not if Felix’s already leaking erection was any indication.

Max removed his clothing as slowly and elegantly as he could, while below him Felix looked up at him with open hunger on his face. Felix was happily devouring every inch of bare skin that Max revealed, with an intensity that surprised the older man. That a younger man like Felix could still find him that desirable was both wonderful for his ego and absolutely terrifying.

Once Max’s clothing was gone Felix reached up as though to touch him, but hesitated, his hands hovering a few inches away from Max’s skin.

“Can I touch you?” he asked, his voice barely above a whisper.

“Of course,” Max replied.

He wasn’t sure why Felix thought that he needed to ask Max’s permission considering how much Max had already done to the younger man. Perhaps it was an attempt to reciprocate Max’s own kindness and compassion?

Either way Max was still as Felix’s hands ran over his chest and stomach. Felix’s hands travelled lower, and Felix paused again with one hand hovering over Max’s erection. He glanced up at Max and then back down again as though seeking his permission.

“You can touch me wherever you want,” Max told him. “You don’t have to though.”

Felix scoffed at that, as though only a crazy person or a coward would choose not to touch, before wrapping his hand around Max’s erection and stroking it, his touch confident and firm as it moved up and down Max’s length.

Max closed his eyes and found himself bucking up into Felix’s touch. This wasn’t at all how things were supposed to be going. He was supposed to be spoiling Felix and giving him pleasure, not the other way around. He couldn’t deny that he had found himself fantasizing about this though, among other, just as guilty fantasies about the younger man; about his hands and lips and the taste of his skin.

He opened his eyes and saw Felix staring up at him. Their gazes found one another in that moment; strangely intimate and open and both absolutely perfect and absolutely terrifying.

“Yes,” Max breathed out, his gaze still locked with Felix’s own. “That’s good. Just like that.”

Felix’s features shifted into something that wasn’t quite a frown; something that Max thought might be aligned closer to pleasure than anger.

“You’re so good Felix,” Max continued, wanting to test out a theory. “So good.”

His theory was proved correct when Felix’s breath sped up in response to that. Max watched in rapt fascination as the younger man’s eyes closed, his grip on Max’s erection pausing for a second as he visibly tried to get himself back under control.

Oh yes. Max was going to have a lot of fun with this.

He leaned down, not caring in the slightest when Felix’s hand retreated from his erection altogether, and leaned close to Felix’s ear to mutter straight into it.

“You feel so good Felix,” Max muttered, “so perfect for me.”

Felix let out an audible gasp in response to that, followed by a small, pathetic sound that could only be described as a whimper.

“Such good behaviour deserves a reward, don’t you think?” Max purred into the younger man’s ear, before pressing a gentle kiss to his neck.

The only response Max got from Felix was another whimper.

“You’ve been so good,” Max continued, his hands running down Felix’s side and then caressing Felix’s hips.

“What reward should I give you?” Max asked as he continued his gentle caresses. “Name anything you like Felix, and I shall try my hardest to give it to you.”

“I want you to fuck me!” Felix blurted out. “Please!”

Max grinned and pressed another kiss to Felix’s neck.

To his regret he needed to move back from Felix so that he could lean over and fetch the bottle of oil that he kept tucked beside his bunk. For a second there was a flicker of panic on Felix’s features, but then Max was back, pouring oil on his fingers and his cock.

“Hush,” he told Felix. “I’m here. I’m right here, and you’re still doing so well Felix.”

Once he was sufficiently slicked up he leaned forward and pressed a series of kisses to the corner of his eyes and the centre of his brow, kissing away the worry that had appeared however briefly on Felix’s face.

“Don’t worry,” he told Felix as he lined himself up against Felix’s entrance. “I’m not going to leave before giving you your reward.”

Felix was breathing hard and unsteadily again, his chest heaving and his eyes gone dark as he stared up at Max.

Max pressed inside of him slowly, gently hushing Felix and planting kisses all over Felix’s face as he did.

Felix let out a scream as Max pushed inside of him. For a moment Max was afraid that he had moved too quickly, and he stilled so that he could check on Felix.

The younger man looked as though he was close to crying again, and his breathing had only grown more frantic and uneven.

“Do you need me to stop?” Max asked.

Felix shook his head frantically in response to that.

“No!” he cried out. “Please.”

Max started to move again, pushing deeper inside Felix. He held still for a moment, watching Felix for any sign that his earlier insistence was just bravado.

He moved back out and then deeper once more, making sure that he moved as slowly and gently as he possibly could.

“That’s it Felix,” he murmured. “You feel so good. You’re so good for me, aren’t you?”

That had Felix writhing and tensing up even more than before. If he was close to crying before then he was definitely crying now.

Max leaned down and started kissing his face over and over again once more as he continued to move inside Felix.

“I have you,” Max whispered, between kisses to the side of Felix’s face. “I have you and you feel so amazing around me. Oh Felix.”

He was keeping his pace slow and steady, but the small whimpers and moans that Felix was making with every single one of his movements was making it difficult to control himself.

“Mm,” Max purred into the younger man’s neck. “You’re so good for me Felix. So good.”

He was being spurred on by it all as much as Felix was at that stage, hearing Felix’s stutters and gasps and relishing them as the younger man fell apart beneath him.

“Max,” Felix gasped weakly as Max pushed inside of him once more. “Max! Fuck! Max!”

Max wrapped his arms around Felix and silenced his cries with a long, gentle kiss.

Felix shook in his arms and let out a sound that might have been a scream if Max had not been smothering it with his own lips, and Max realised that the younger man was coming, shaking apart beneath him.

Felix’s pleasure seemed to overwhelm him forever, and after a few more thrusts Max pulled back from the kiss to watch Felix pant and whimper beneath him. All it took after that was a few more thrusts and then Max was coming as well, losing himself in Felix just as Felix himself was coming back to reality.

He collapsed on top of Felix, bringing his hands up to caress the younger man’s face as he slowly came back to himself.

“You were so good Felix,” Max said, as he ran his thumb over Felix’s swollen lips. “So good for me.”

He realised he sounded just as broken as Felix looked.

Felix turned his head to stare directly into Max’s eyes. His breathing was still uneven, and something about him looked completely lost and broken, as though he was begging for Max’s help by staring into his eyes.

Max wished that he knew what he could say. It was true, he had imagined the two of them engaging in a myriad of different activities since the first time that they had slept together, but whatever he might have imagined, he had never imagined that their second time together would be like this, whatever this was.

For a while they just lay there, Max gently stroking the side of Felix’s face as they stared into one another eyes.

“Are you all right?” Max eventually asked.

Felix nodded slowly. Max found himself smiling.

“That was…” Felix eventually whispered, before trailing off.

The bewildered, overawed looking on Felix’s face as he spoke said it all, and the smile that appeared on his face as he trailed off put Max’s mind to ease far more than the younger man’s earlier nodding.

“Yes,” Max said. “It was.”

He could think of at least a half dozen ways that he could have finished Felix’s sentence. Unexpected. Mind-blowing. Almost uncomfortably intimate. The best sex that he had ever had. But they all seemed inadequate and unnecessary.

“Thank you,” Felix said.

Max wished that Felix hadn’t felt the need to thank him. After all, it wasn’t as though he hadn’t enjoyed himself just as much as Felix had. Well, maybe not as much as Felix had judging by how completely blissed out and broken he had seemed by the end, but certainly more than Max would have ever expected.

His eyes caught Felix’s once more. He seemed so open and vulnerable in that moment; a far cry from the tough, untouchable exterior that Felix spent most of his time projecting.

Max didn’t know what to say to the younger man, so instead he leaned forward and pressed his lips to Felix’s own. He kept the kiss slow, although it didn’t stay as shallow as he had been planning for long. Felix opened his mouth up to Max, encouraging the older man to deepen the kiss.

For a few minutes they just lay there, lips locked together in a slow but incredibly passionate kiss.

Felix was the one to eventually pull back from the kiss. He pulled back from Max as well, smiling softly at him.

“Thanks again,” he said, his fingers running over the side of Max’s face.

He sat up, and Max realised that the younger man intended to leave.

He grabbed Felix’s wrist, his grip on the younger man possibly the least gentle touch that he had bestowed upon Felix the entire evening.

“Stay,” Max asked. “Please.”

Felix glanced down at his wrist, where Max was still gripping it tightly, and then up at Max’s face.

Max watched as Felix swallowed nervously, before the younger man turned around and settled back onto the bunk once more without a single word.

Max wrapped his arms around Felix’s body and pulled him close, Felix’s back pressing against his chest.

“Stay with me,” Max murmured, before pressing a kiss to Felix’s bare shoulder. “Just for tonight.”

“All right,” Felix whispered.

The bunk was barely big enough to hold the both of them, but they fell asleep like that, Max holding Felix close and his head pressed into the younger man’s shoulder.

Someone (and Max never found out whether it was ADA or their Captain or someone else entirely, was thoughtful enough to close the door to Max’s quarters and give them a little privacy, and if anyone on the ship noticed the fact that the two of them emerged from the same room in the morning, then they were kind enough not to mention it.

Either that or they just didn’t care about what Felix and Max may or may not have gotten up to the night before. They had important things to worry about that day after all; like breaking into Tartarus and saving the whole system. Max and Felix’s affair, or whatever you wanted to call it, must have seemed of little importance in comparison.

After Tartarus the Captain had been swept up in the resulting political upheaval, and the crew of the Unreliable had all gone their separate ways. It had all been so sudden and so chaotic. The thought that he might ask Felix to accompany him had occurred to Max more than once during those days, but events had conspired to pull them in different directions before Max could actually summon up the courage to say anything.

In Amber Heights Max leaned down, brushing Felix’s hair aside once more so that he could place a soft, gentle kiss to the sleeping man’s forehead.

Perhaps it was the Great Plan at work, or perhaps it was just dumb luck, but whatever it was, the universe had seen fit to bring himself and Felix back together once more. He would have to be foolish indeed not to see it for the opportunity it was.

As terrifying as the thought of confessing his feelings was, he would be lying if he said that the thought of parting from Felix again was not infinitely worse.

“I love you,” he breathed against the skin of Felix’s forehead.

It was cowardly, he knew. After all, Felix was asleep and would not be able to hear him say the words, but it helped somewhat to lift the weight that had settled upon his heart. Perhaps soon he would be able to bring himself to say the words while Felix was actually awake.

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the-a-factor-fs-blog · 7 years

Text

Kiss & Cry - Episode 2

Welcome to the second Episode of “Kiss & Cry”, Max Ambesi’s latest podcasts series.

If you missed first Episode, you can catch up with it here (x)

In this second Episode, Max chatted about various topics with Angelo Dolfini (former Figure Skating Italian Champion, Tech Specialist and now Figure Skating Coach, plus Technical Analyst for Italian Eurosport), while Alessandro Genuzio acted only as host.

This second podcast is 116.08 minutes long, and it’s available to be listened in Italian here: https://www.spreaker.com/user/talk-sport/puntata-2

In the following translation, (M) indicates when M. Ambesi is speaking, (A) indicates when A. Dolfini is speaking, (H) when the Host, A. Genuzio, intervenes.

Translated by The-A-Factor Team. Please do not repost without permission.

Table of Content:

Nebelhorn Trophy Results, Olympic Qualification & Judges’ draw for Pyeongchang.

Fantasy Skating - Pick your Skater.

Junior Grand Prix

A New Scoring System? Yes, but it must be done rationally

Programs’ Comparison: Yuzuru Hanyu’s and Shoma Uno’s Short Program

Various Q&A from listeners

[T/n: This translation starts at 4:45. In the first minutes, Genuzio thanks listeners for the feedback over last episode, introduce Max and Angelo and lists the topics covered in this episode]

Part 1: Nebelhorn Trophy

Analysis and talks over Nebelhorn Trophy, Olympic Qualification and Judges’ draw for Olympics.

Credits to Hiro Yoshida

(H): Let’s start with Nebelhorn Trophy, a competition that didn’t reserve huge surprises. We posted qualification tables and spots earned by various nations on the “Pattinaggio - Figure Skating” Facebook group. Italy qualified [in the men’s discipline] (t/n: spots for other disciplines were already assured from Worlds), and the the few unexpected results came from the ladies’ competition.

(M): Yes, Italian skaters did very well. Between Helsinki, where the World Championships were held, and Oberstdorf, the host city of the Nebelhorn Trophy, they brought home the best they could achieve: two spots in Pairs, Ice Dance and Ladies, one spot in Men. It was impossible to do more than this.

Rizzo did well, he managed to skate again on the same level he showed at the Lombardia Trophy. A solid triple Axel, good triple-triple combinations, and he went over 220 points. We don’t know yet who will be the Italian skater to join the Olympic team, but for sure, Matteo Rizzo - with his results in Bergamo and Oberstdorf - put together a lot of points [t/n Italian Olympic Team will be decided based on national ranking. The Italian National Ranking is calculated by summing up the best scores in different competitions, as detailed by Federation guidelines], it will be hard for others to surpass him. I’d say that 70%, he will be the Italian men’s single skater who is going to Pyeongchang and I think it’s a good thing, since he is 360° a product of the Italian figure skating world. He grew up on bread and figure skating [t/n “Crescere a pane e pattinaggio”, an Italian figure of speech to say figure skating - in this instance - was as important to his growth as food is], his parents did make figure skating history in Ice Dance in Italy as coaches. We should never forget they coached Italian ice dancers to win Junior Grand Prix Final. (Italian) Ice Dance is often applauded for the results it achieved in recent years, but we should remember that Ice Dance has always had quite an important history, and results of good caliber as well, in the past. And Rizzo’s family gave a lot to Ice Dance. Matteo skates in the singles and he has been improving exponentially compared to the last season. The Matteo Rizzo we saw at Bergamo and at Oberstdorf is not the same skater we saw last season. I do believe he is a skater who can bring some good results to Italy, since a skater who is consistently scoring over 220 points can be in the top 10 at the European Championships. And if he grows a quid more, he can aim for something better. I admit I didn’t expect him to grow so much, so fast, so hats off to him.

(A): Yes, really impressive competitions, especially at Nebelhorn. Cold numbers aside, he faced a significant pressure: the prize was important, the average level - low/average level, let me say so - is becoming higher and higher and the competition is becoming greater and from more and more countries. So it was really tough to conquer this spot, and Matteo kept calm, plus his technical skills and his improvements on consistency in the triple Axel, an element he was already able to rotate, but that is becoming a focal point of his skating. He is also a skater that has always had skating skills of good quality. After all, he followed in his parents’ footsteps, as you recall. Ice dance coaches who can teach a lot about this topic. Their achievements are important – Max, you told about their success with the juniors and maybe some of those couples have split, but some then went on to achieve important results in seniors, too: with other coaches, maybe, but it’s still meaningful what you said. And I do believe, too, that Italy couldn’t have gotten [more spots] than it did.

It’s also fair what you pointed out about Matteo. He is really 100% a product of Italian skating, and that’s different from many of his predecessors, because we have had quite a few “imported” skaters, some who did give us prestigious results - I’m thinking mainly about Samuel Contesti, in recent times - but I think you are right, he is the favourite to get on the Olympic team at the moment.

(H): Let’s revisit which other nations qualified for the Olympics and with how many spots.

(M): Data is easily found on the net on many specialized website, but let’s sum up. Top federations will be there with numerous delegates, as always. Russia will have three pairs, as is customary; two ice dance couples and that’s news because it is usually a full three set at the Championships, but ice dance in Russia is going through a difficult time and it is behind others. Then, there will be two men’s single skaters and obviously three amongst ladies, where Russia is the dominant player right now. If Russia could also list junior girls not yet eligible amongst seniors, it would probably monopolize the first five or six positions. There’s a technical supremacy and, to bridge the gap, it’s quite tough for the others.

(A): It’s one of those cases where the rule of “3 spots max” is constricting for them.

(M): Without a doubt. Then, Canada: the biggest delegation with three ladies, three pairs, three ice dance couples, but only two men. Just by a point, because USA got the better of Canada by one point. The USA that will have three skaters in the men’s and the ladies’ - three spots gained “somehow”, let’s say: because frankly I do think that Karen Chen has been extremely helped in the last World Championships compared to what she did on the ice. Personal opinion, but looking again at her jumps, I think it’s easy to see why I’m saying this.

(A): An opinion that can be shared. Let’s say that before Helsinki, three spots were to be expected in the ladies, but in light of what happened, men were the ones who rightfully gained those three spots, where they pulled off half a miracle to bring home the full result.

(M): Exactly, then they will have three ice dance couples, a discipline in which they are the benchmark right now, in juniors too. And then only one pair. That’s the biggest news.

(A): And quite an uproar.

(M): Yes, uproar. One pair did finish in the top 10, but it wasn’t enough. At Helsinki, 16 spots for pairs were granted and a second spot for USA would have been the 17th one. In other words: only one spot. The first time since - I’m going by memory here - the Chamonix Olympics in 1924. A catastrophe. It must be said that there are several pairs skating for the USA, but only one is really competitive, no more.

(A): Yes, it must be said. There have been many changes, many couples splitting - which is quite normal in the USA - but (for one reason or another), it’s a discipline in which they are struggling. Not that it is a discipline that brought the USA many big results either.

(M) Exactly. Then, back to the Nebelhorn Trophy itself: in my opinion, the biggest surprise was Galustyan not qualifying (for the Olympics) among ladies.

(A): It caused quite a stir. A fair result that didn’t give any room for debate. She did quite a good comeback in the free skate, but she was really behind after the short program - only 15th - and that was really a surprise.

(M): She may be saved since Kazakhstan may not be able to fill both spots and, in that case, Galustyan is the first alternate. But between underrotated jumps and some void moments in the performance, this talented skater is struggling a lot. Surprise Number Two, instead, for Czech pair Duskova/Bidar. They risked not qualifying, and they now have to thank Didier Gailhaguet, head of the French federation, who decided not to bring two pairs to Korea, maybe because the other ones wouldn’t be eligible. Anyway, France did free up one spot and Duskova/Bidar were the last pair to qualify. Soundly defeated by the Australian pair, Alexandrovskaya/Windsor, who went over 190 points - a threshold reached by not so many couples. The North Koreans, too, did very well and skated at a good level. And then, everything else went according to plan. The Austrian pair went through, an experienced couple, Ziegler/Kiefer, who already took part in the 2014 Olympic Games; they did especially well in the short program, with a clean performance, which is not something that happens often for them. They are a couple with potential on side-by-side jumps and throws, but they often make some errors due to the big risks they take. And then Israelis, Connors/Krasnopolski: at the second international competition together, they managed to score an Israeli national record: the first Israeli pair to go over 170 points, although they are both from the USA, going above all expectations and defeating Duskova/Bidar, who are considered one of the pairs to watch for the future.

(A): Yeah, (regarding Duskova/Bidar), it has been a surprise, that performance, it has been a surprise, that result. They brought home the qualification, but not in a way that anybody expected. Anyway, in the end, those qualified for the Olympics are the same that we could have predicted.

Of course the final result at Nebelhorn is not the same as the pairs you listed, because we have amongst them, also pairs from countries that have already qualified. There were two German pairs, for example. This can also upset the balance a bit: less now with the COP Scoring System than before (with 6.0), but I wouldn’t find it a stupid idea to allow only nations that need to qualify to compete at the Qualification Event. Yes, the others get points for the Challenger Series, but they could create some distortion in this kind of “mixed standings”: with some of the skaters trying to qualify relegated to different skating groups than they would have been otherwise.

(M): Which is what happened in various competitions. Especially in the pairs: you pointed out the two German pairs, there was also a Russian one. Speaking of which, Savchenko/Massot and Tarasova/Morozov are both top-tier Pairs: a fine contest between them. The Russians won, but if we speak about potential, the Germans (even if none of them is actually born in Germany) impressed more.

(A): [laughing] Indeed… maybe one of their coaches, or maybe not. But we can consider Alyona an adopted German since she moved to Germany many years ago and she has been competing for Germany for a long time. For Massot, it’s a bit different; in any case, they both are aces and they have, indeed, noteworthy potential: they showed that in many occasions. That throw triple Axel is a great risk, they got -3 with the fall at Nebelhorn, but should they complete it, it’s going to be a powerful weapon. They are working on this element and it does show.

(M): In my opinion, with a clean throw triple Axel, they are unbeatable. Also because it is perfectly incorporated in their program.

(A): And this is the biggest news, compared to last season.

(M): I do believe it’s basically news for any of the pairs who have tried a throw triple Axel or quad in the discipline, so far. Maybe the throw quad Salchow done by Sui/Han, could be considered the same. Although the success rate for it has always been very low. Savchenko/Massot’s success rate on the throw triple Axel is low as well, but the quality on the way they go for this element is something never seen before. The jump’s parabole is bigger and for the way they are going into it, if they land it, they may bring home the Base Value and +3 on GOE, and if that happens, the gap with other pairs is going to be significant.

(A): Yes, they can really get a lot of points, and they can also try it in a short program [t/n contrary to throw quads], so the throw triple Axel may be a key to winning. What you said about the jump’s parabole is true; we must also say that any jump with a bigger parabole increases the quality, but it also makes it a riskier jump and lowers the success rate: we saw the same happening with throw quads, for example. The best success rate on throw quads has always been on jumps that are “more vertical”, with slower speed on entry, and I’m thinking about both Canadians Duhamel/Radford and Russians Kavaguti/Smirnov.

(M): And usually, they aren’t elements really incorporated into the choreography either.

(A): No, they aren’t. The two things often go hand-in-hand. To enter a jump with slower speed is often due to a more telegraphed entry, in which skaters wait for the jump and slow down.

(M): About ice dance, instead, British couple Coomes/Buckland prevailed with no contest. They are not newcomers, they have been sidelined for a long time due to a series of serious injuries for Coomes. They left a good impression and if we look at other international competitions, with the exception of Virtue/Moir, their own score is on the same level as other top competitors.

I’d like to remark on how Igor Shpilband managed to qualify three other different couples, to add to those already qualified after Helsinki. Maybe we will go deeper into this topic about coaches and judges in ice dance in another episode. Zueva and he can count on many countries and many couples right now. It could be a point of strength. We’ll speak about it.

Among ladies, I’d like to point out Alexia Paganini’s performance. She is a skater born and raised in the USA - she trained at Hackensack, where Morozov worked, or still works there part-time, too. Morozov, who is Alexia’s choreographer. Her father is Italian-Swiss while her mother is Dutch. She has three different passports and opted to represent Switzerland. Without even forcing too much, she got to 155 points. Let’s take notice: this is a girl who normally completes triple-triple combos in practice, even though she didn’t go for it at the Nebelhorn in her free program: she went for double Lutz - triple Toe Loop, and if you go for a triple after a Lutz, it means that you usually manage to complete the combo, [3Lz3T]. In practice, she works from time to time also on the quad Salchow, and in the European field - if she will go on - she can make a difference in the next few years because if you take out the Russians, there’s a lot of space to come through.

(A): The battle for top 10 will be tough, but with a triple-triple combo and a solid Rittberger, as she has shown she can do, with good levels on spins and steps, which she already has, she can put down her cards. It would be important for the Swiss movement to find a good skater to pull the rest of the movement up. After the golden age with Lambiel and Sarah Meier, Switzerland is now in a slump in all disciplines. Historically, it’s been stronger in singles, and it always struggled more in pairs.

(M): And same in ice dance. Probably also because the number of skaters is quite low and because, for Ice Dance, tradition is very important. In Italy, we do have a tradition in the discipline, and in the last twenty years - even more than twenty years - important results came through, we will see if this tradition can go on since the top Ice Dance couples are all quite old [in figure skating terms].

(A): This is another interesting topic to cover. For sure, Italy did create a movement, a prestigious school, there are several good coaches and staff and teams that can follow and bring an Ice Dance couple to the top, all the way to win World Championships. Something that happened a couple of times, which is an extraordinary result [for Italy], so this helps. There’s a structure, there’s a basis, there’s a know-how. Then you also need athletes, and right now, they are trying to find the right couples on which to bet for the future. There are several young couples, but probably the one with a little bit more has yet to be found or decided upon. We’ll see in the future, it will be, for sure, an interesting challenge.

(M): Important thing. At the end of the Nebelhorn competitions, the judges’ draw for the Olympics has been held, so we now know which countries will possibly be represented on the panel.

Canada and China got the full haul. They will have the chance to be on the panel in all disciplines. Let’s remember, 13 countries have been drawn, but the panel is composed by nine judges and the actual and final draw for each event will be done right before the start. Canada and China also have a judge in all programs for Team Event. They’ve been quite lucky with the draw. Of course, a judge is supposed to be super-partes [t/n impartial].

(A): [laughs] Yes, of course, a judge should always judge based on what happens on the ice, but we can safely say that in our sport it’s better to have a judge [of your own nationality] on the panel than to not have it if you are competing for something big – let’s not bury our heads into the sand. Then yes, there are many judges and, in the end, the athletes’ performance will make the difference. That said, all nations that can have a judge in the discipline(s) where they are more of a medal contender, are in a position of strength. For China, for example, pairs and maybe men’s, even if that is a bit harder.

(M): And I’d say also for the Team Event. From simulations done after Worlds, China would top USA. Of course, such simulations need to be taken with a grain of salt, considering the Team Event format, but it still means China has quite good cards to play. Italy was quite unlucky because only one judge has been drawn, in Ice Dance. Italy also has a judge in Pairs, but it was a given since there are less than 13 Nations in competition. And yes, Italy is probably stronger in Ice Dance compared to other disciplines right now, but the draw could have been better. In the Team Event, 0 out of 4.

(A): Pity, because Italy can do well in the Team Event. To do well and to medal are different things, but it would be a prestigious result to reach a good final position.

(M): In the Team Event, Russia is left with only one judge. Russia is the defending champion, it won quite convincingly in Sochi. It will be a lot harder to win in Pyeongchang, where Canada seems to be the heavy favourite. Let’s see. On paper, there are four teams that can medal: Canada and Russia for gold, China and USA for bronze. The other Nations are quite behind. Japan is very strong in singles, but it struggles in other disciplines. It can defend itself in Ice Dance, it has no weapon in Pairs.

(A): That’s their problem. They can do extremely well in Ladies and Men, but it could be insufficient. And to be honest, it’s fair that way. If it’s a team competition on four disciplines, the most complete teams are the ones upfront. You are right, Canada and Russia seem to have a gear more compared to the others. I think the battle for gold will be between them, with Canada being the runaway favorites. They are well covered, with champions in all disciplines.

(M): To close this part, I’ll answer a question I’ve been asked by many about the Team Event. The question is easy: “Which countries will take part in the Team Event?”

Eight are practically already in: for some of them, they have yet to reach mathematical certainty, but it’s just formality. Big Four aside - Canada, Russia, USA and China - there are: Germany, Italy, France and Japan. Japan didn’t qualify for Pairs, but it will be able to put a pair couple in the Team Event. For the final two spots, it’s an open battle. Right now, qualification ranking says Spain is in the 9th position, but there’s a problem. Spain qualified only in the men’s and Ice Dance. Rules say that you can only add one other discipline for the Team Event.

(A): I’d say Ladies more than Pairs…

(M): I don’t really know, to be honest. The Spanish pair who competed first at Lombardia and then at Nebelhorn did skate quite well, going over 140. I don’t see anyone in the ladies being able to do the same. That said, I do think it’s in ISU’s interest not to see Spain in the Team Event. Of course, for a country, it is not mandatory to take part in the competition. It can also declined the invitation and decide to focus only on the traditional disciplines. After Spain (in actual Ranking), there is South Korea, which could put out a full Team in the same way as Japan, through the so-called “3+1” rule since Korea didn’t qualify in Pairs. And then Israel, Czech Republic and Australia follow.

It’s obvious that for the ISU, the best scenario would be Korea and Australia: you’d cover four continents, and you’d also have the hosting nation, but it’s not that easy for that to happen.

(A): We can consider the Team Event as a format that is still in the works. It made its debut for the first time in Sochi, so there are still some mechanism to oil. The truth is, there are only a few nations that can really guarantee a team that’s high-level in all disciplines. You can count them on one hand, and we can proudly say that Italy is among them, even if a step behind those fighting for a medal - four years ago, chances to grab a medal were not so distant; it will be way harder next year; anyway, it’s quite tough to put together ten different nations that can take part in the competition according to the actual rules.

Part 2: Fantasy Skating

Let’s play and create your own Ice Dance and Pairs Couple.

(H): I shall throw out a provocation. Earlier [and in the first episode], you talked about how there is a certain transfer market in figure skating, and how in certain countries, it is easier to obtain citizenship. If you had your own nation with infinite funds to create a new couple, who would you pick for Dance and Pairs?

(M): A provocation indeed, a question like this could make people among our listeners riot. I’ll go first… but let me think a bit about it… Ice Dance, the benchmark among men are Guillerme Cizeron, an exceptional skater, and I’d say Moir, Scott Moir, another outstanding skater. To pick the lady, it becomes harder. In my opinion, there are more high-level men than women, right now. Personal opinion. I really like Madison Chock, for example.

(A): Same for me. I do agree, Madison Chock is a high-quality skater, and we remarked more than once how, probably, her partner is not up to her standards.

(M): Then, Tessa Virtue is for sure a skater you’d gladly look at. The strength of the Virtue/Moir partnership is this incredible chemistry born and nurtured over so many years they spent next to each other. Tessa Virtue has a scenic presence that’s so much above anyone else amongst her peers. But I’m still at a loss as to giving a female name for Dance. And back to Italy, Luca Lanotte is also an amazing skater.

(A): No doubt.

(M): He is not that far from Cizeron or Moir. But if I have to pick a woman… I’m really struggling. I don’t know, Angelo, you try, now.

(A): It’s true, it’s true. I’d say Madison Chock, as you said as well. Then, it’s also true that there are some couples who are already “all-stars”, like Virtue/Moir. Ilinykh/Katsalapov could have become another one, had they not split. Katsalapov is another exceptional dancer, the problem is he is quite prone to mistakes, so probably I wouldn’t pick him, but if we are speaking of pure talent, there are not many above him.

Among ladies… it also depends on what kind of couple you want to create. Madison Chock would be ideal with some kind of partners. With a Poje, you could put him next to one of those Russian ladies, with a significant physical impact, and you could make a high-level couple there too. But probably, Sinitsina, others like her and so on – they still lack a bit of charisma, compared to a real ace, so it’s harder to come up with a name. We mentioned Cizeron and not Gabriella, but she is very good, too. She is often forgotten, but her quality is incredible, too.

Not to say that it’s not enough to find quality skaters, you also need to put together skaters that can work with each other, and here topic becomes even harder.

(M): I agree about Papadakis, because to keep up with Cizeron, you need someone that is not so far behind him.

Pairs… Good question… To put together the perfect couple is hard also because of the different body types of different skaters. For example, if we pick Sui/Han, I think that he is amazing.

(A): But with whom can you pair him off?

(M): With her, stop.

(A): Exactly. Maybe with Alyona, since she is quite petite, too, and Han Cong is not very tall and he’s also quite slim.

(M): Look, if I have to name a woman, I say Ksenia Stolbova, when she is healthy.

(A): Probably, I’d still pick Savchenko. If I have to be honest, I also like Sui Wenjing a lot, but what’s the problem there: maybe you wouldn’t pick her since she is weaker on side-by-side jumps. On SBS jumps, Stolbova is one of the strongest ones, and Duhamel, too.

(M): Well, Meagan has been the last Canadian skater to win a Junior Grand Prix stage in the ladies. We have to go back ages, but that’s proof of her prowess as an athlete, even in the singles.

(A): Meagan’s constraint is that probably she isn’t the best interpreter in the field.

(M): Yes, I agree with you. Among men, who are the others? Also for what we were saying about body traits… Bruno Massot has quality to put out.

(A): Massot, then Zhang Hao’s great experience, but we have some limits on skating quality - which is high, but not the best - and interpretation, there.

We ignored the Frenchies, who are doing really well, Vanessa and Morgan both.

(M): Both of them are good single skaters, with a good career in other disciplines. A couple that has been growing up exponentially since they started working with John Zimmerman and Silvia Fontana. They are a couple who can aim to medal at the Olympics.

(A): They are really growing a lot. So far they displayed their best at the last European Championships, but they showed great things at the Worlds as well. They need to find some consistency: if they nail two programs in the same competition, they can put pressure on many others.

(M): Exactly. And that’s all for this question.

Part 3: Junior Grand Prix

Analysis and Recap of Junior Grand Prix. [t/n Please note the podcast had been recorded before Poland event]

Credits to ISU

(H): Let’s make a quick recap on the Junior Grand Prix

(M): Right. Well, what can we say? Eteri Tutberidze’s winning streak got interrupted, as her pupil Anastasia Tarakanova completely bombed the free skate after a good short program – by the way the event was held in Zagreb in a very important venue that had hosted some big events over the last few years. Anastasia was betrayed by her most impressive element, the triple Lutz - she’s one of those girls who could really manage another turn on that jump, that says it all - and she had a bit of a meltdown. It happens, she’s not the most consistent, and obviously she may still need some time to physically adjust to new training methods, since she only recently changed coaching team. She ended up in 3rd place, qualified for the GPF, and now she’ll have time to prepare for that event in all tranquility. Surprise, surprise – it was a skater from Saint Petersburg who won the competition, Sofia Samodurova who has all the pros and cons of Saint Petersburg’s athletes. Right, Angelo? (A): Yeah, good jumping technique, but less completeness in skating, less refinement in the programs, and overall less extreme program construction, with less triples in the second half. A more traditional philosophy, in contrast to what we’re used to getting from Tutberidze’s students.

(M): So this makes eight wins in a row for Russia in junior ladies, a record shared with the USA, although we have to go back ten years maybe, when Wagner and Nagasu were juniors. We’ll see if Russia can add another victory in Gdansk this weekend, they’re sending two strong girls both coached by Tutberidze there. Obviously with more careful planning, there could have been five Russian ladies in the final, although nothing is set yet. Of course, right now, Russia has a disarming number of strong skaters, but there are some skaters who can compete with them, like Japan’s Rika Kihira who has a triple Axel, or even some Koreans. (A): Yeah, why not. In Croatia, we saw Young You at her international junior debut and she’s a skater we’ve been monitoring closely for quite some time: she had a fairly good long program and overall her debut was positive. She’s not the only one, there are other skaters, both Korean and Japanese, who can give the Russian girls a good run for their money. Eunsoo Lim did very well at Cup of Austria for instance, I was quite impressed. (M): Indeed, she has great flow, skates full-rink, has big jumps, but compared to the top Russian girls, her programs are emptier. Nevertheless, she has great potential. (A): I agree. Even physically, she’s already very tall, almost through puberty, she doesn’t have that “little girl” body type we see sometimes with some Russian girls. So this is a good sign already for her future development as a skater.

(M): In men’s, Krasnozhon did pretty well, he’s Russian through and through but he competes for the USA. He tried the quad Loop again and, in my opinion, it was round, but it was marked as under-rotated. Let’s remark that no European skater has ever landed a quad Loop, should Krasnozhon make it... well he would be ratified as an American skater even if he has a totally different background. Pay attention to the next event for junior men. Matteo Rizzo will be there, and judging from his competitions up until now, he could aim at the podium. Getting 220 points in a JGP allows you to climb on the podium and, depending on the event, you can even win the competition. Next, he will be in Egna, home event, and if he still has energy left, he could even aim at qualifying for the final, which would be a historical result for Italy. It’s not an impossible goal to be honest, but a lot will depend on how much mental energy he has left after two big competitions at the beginning of the season. (A): Undoubtedly. The Olympic qualifying event especially can definitely drain a lot of mental energy from an athlete. On the other hand, the fact that he did so well at Nebelhorn – earning a spot for the Olympics – could fire him up even more, so let’s wait and see what happens. Certainly the fact that we’re here discussing about his possible qualification for GPF is another proof of this skater’s improvement. He’s still very young but he’s already the present of Italian men’s figure skating, rather than the future.

Part 4: A New Scoring System?

Further Analysis on Proposed Scoring System Modification

(H): “Well, it’s time to get to the third part of this podcast, which is about this attempt to reform the scoring system. It contemplates the possibility of having separate medals for the short and the free program, and a medal for the overall competition, kind of like for roller-skating, where there is still compulsory figures and there are medals for both that and the free program. The one who has the highest combined score is then crowned world champion. I would like to hear what you think about this, whether it could help make competitions more spectacular, by reducing the differences between skaters’ scores, or if we’d end up seeing skaters focus only on one part of the competition.

(M): To put it frankly, we could do without that. Skating has a long history; true, once we had three programs and now we have two - and for some disciplines, it’s a crime, see ice dance. Eliminating the compulsory dance impoverished it a bit, but this is just my opinion; we’ll talk more about ice dance next week. Figure skating competitions revolve around both the short and the free programs and I think we should keep going like this: with the overall score counting for one medal. I don’t see why we should make all these changes. If there are, or there will be, athletes who can jump quads that perfectly fit the choreography, who can be the best on spins, and be the best artistically, well, may they win gold medals. I don’t see why we should revolutionize this sport.

(A): To be honest, before thinking about revolutionizing the sport, we should be clear on which direction we want to take it. There have been changes – as you reminded us: there was no short program once upon a time, but compulsory figures instead, and then the free. Then, they introduced the short program and eliminated the compulsory figures. The men’s free program once lasted five minutes, while now it lasts four and a half, and they want to make it last four by eliminating one jumping pass… there are many ideas around, but I honestly think that, while this new scoring system would revolutionize figure skating, I’d let people who watch skating judge whether it is for the best or not. Some of the skaters that we are able to watch these days truly are amazing champions, stars of the sport, who truly shine bright. I don’t think now is the right time to change the system so thoroughly – this is my opinion. Now, it’s true that some changes here and there might be necessary, we’ve talked more than once about that; like, for example, the coefficient factors for PCS. That would be one change to make without completely revolutionizing the entire system. I don’t know regarding the medals. Like Max said, there’s the short and the free programs, but one medal.

(M): Absolutely. Let’s get to the point about factorization. I believe the best thing would be to raise the coefficient factors: for ladies and pairs it could be raised to 0,9 for the short and 1,8 for the free, to push them “artistically” and to keep up with the technical progress. For men, it could be 1,2 for the short program, to get to a max of 60 PCS, and 2,4 in the free, with a max score of 120. That said, and I don’t want to repeat myself, that doesn’t mean that if you do four quads you should get 9’s from the judges, because PCS shouldn’t be scored based on that.

(A): Yes. The scoring system is an instrument, given to the judges, and I’d rather say that it’s how it is used that could decide in which direction the sport might go. Overall, the current scoring system provides the means to do a thorough evaluation [of the skater], by taking into account many details and different features of our sport. It’s clear that when we come across a homogenization of the marks – you get 9’s by jumping quads, and if you get one 9, you’ll probably get all 9s in PCS – then that’s proof that the problem isn’t the system itself, but how it is used. We could probably give some thought to that, while changing the coefficient factors seems necessary, since we are reaching higher and higher scores on the TES. It’s true that we are applying this [the new hypothetical coefficient factors] to the top 5-6 skaters, while we also need to think how that would affect the others and analyze the situation.

(M): Well, if they keep scoring them like they do now, the answer is: there would be no change; you’d only have more balance between the TES and PCS scores. It’s clear that if they paid more attention to details and diversified the marks for PCS, there would be some change. It’s possible that an excellent skater when it comes to skating skills – so quality, fluidity, edges, etc - even worth 9 or 9.5, could get 6.5 in transitions. It’s not a crime. While now, it’s the norm that whoever receives one high mark then receives systematic high marks on everything else. Which is the system’s weakest point. Maybe there would be less discussions by actually diversifying those marks.

(A): Yes, that’s a possibility. But it isn’t so easily regulated; you can get there by having more precise and educated judges. Then that becomes the key point.

(H): It would become quite incredible, to say that someone is world champion of the short program, someone the world champion of the free, and at the end of the day, everyone’s a world champion. It could be confusing. And really – Max is familiar with a similar situation – that’s what happened in luge, in which new medals were introduced just so that other nations get medals.

(A): Yes, well truthfully, to give more medals would please many people, but it would be against the nature of figure skating.

(M): I repeat, history comes first. You don’t throw away a century of history like that. Okay, there are two programs now and not three, perfect, but that’s how skating works. It’s beautiful like this. And the scoring system could work if everything was actually applied as it should be. I believe we could keep going like this for another hundred years.”

(A): It would be great, and interesting. Overall, I agree.

Part 5: Programs Comparison

An Analysis of Yuzuru Hanyu’s and Shoma Uno’s Short Program, plus some other considerations about other top-contenders.

Original Photos from japantimes

[t/n “solo jump” has been used whenever Max said “solo jump preceded by steps/choreographical movements”]

(H): Well, after this let’s get to the next part on our list, which is probably one of the most hyped topics since we’ll try to compare two great athletes [t/n literal: esthete] of the men’s field: Uno and Hanyu. I’d say it wouldn’t be a problem to say that Hanyu is a world champion when it comes to the short, the free program or overall, I guess. [t/n: reference to part 4 discussion]

(M): Well, let’s not forget that it’s possible for Hanyu, Uno, or Nathan Chen, Patrick Chan, etc, to bomb a program. The competition is made of two programs, though. In this case, we’ll talk about their short programs, since both Hanyu and Uno had a great debut this season. Hanyu broke the world record [in the short] during a competition in the Challenger Series, held in Montreal, Canada, while Uno got a new personal best at the Lombardia Trophy – a very high score, comparable to the one he got at Worlds last season. First substantial difference: Shoma Uno showed us his final layout. It’s an ambitious program, with two quads: 4F for the solo jump that must be preceded by steps or connecting movements - and a 4t3t combo in the second half of the program, a news compared to last season. It’s clear that he wanted to have a more difficult program (compared to precedent season). Hanyu didn’t show his final layout. He had a 4S as the solo jump at Montreal, while in practice he does that program with a 4Lz or a 4Lo as the solo jump. During shows held just after the World Team Trophy – so in April or May – he performed his current short program with 4lo as the solo jump. We’ll see what he decides in the end; Angelo, you have quite a clear opinion about this, don’t you?

(A): Yes. I believe, as I did last year already, that, all in all, with 4S, 4T3T and 3A, he racks up even more points than if he does a 4lo. And the fact that he did break a new world record at ACI with 4S is partial proof of what I was saying. It’s true that with a good 4Lo, the BV would be higher, and that he has been able to land that jump and receive positive GOE for it, but maybe he is able to be more relaxed with the 4S. It’s a more solid jump, and one that he does consistently with better quality [than the Loop], but we will see whether he changes this layout for the Olympics, to risk more in order to have a higher BV. I believe that even with this layout, his short program is the one to beat.

(M): And why it’s the best short program? Because Yuzuru can get nine more points on his jumping passes alone, by receiving a consistent +3 on those elements, because of how he executes them. We’ll say more by taking the differences [between him and Shoma] into account, but well, he executes the solo jump with a spread eagle before and after it, the 3A coming from a back counter and the 4T3T combo from a 3-turn sequence, which is the entry of his 3F in the free program. Those are jumps with extremely difficult entries, perfectly executed, and that fit into the choreography in such a way that they almost look like triples, since they are done with so much quality that makes you forget that he’s doing four rotations. There lies the difference. Shoma has improved his 3A with time – an element that he started to execute quite late… not that he’s old in any way now, but he struggled with the 3A so much during his junior career, he didn’t even try it for some time – and at the moment, the Axel is the element he has with the most quality, in terms of Grade of Execution. He can’t keep up with Yuzuru Hanyu when it comes to the solo jump and the combo, instead.

(A): Yes, pretty much like everybody. As a matter of fact, in the short program, Hanyu is truly unbeatable for everyone – if he doesn’t fall – and we even said so many times during our commentary on Eurosport. Because even if the men’s field has many great athletes at the moment, he’s the only one who can execute a 3A and both quads – [the solo one] coming from steps and the combo – with difficult entries. He’s the only one whose program has all these elements that fit into the choreography, and a very complex one at that. When it comes to transitions, Hanyu’s short program is on another level. It’s really unmatched. It really is better than the others, by a mile. We are comparing it now with Shoma Uno’s short program, which may be the third - if not the second - in terms of difficulty and complexity of the elements planned, and yet the difference is noteworthy. For example, the step before the 4F is barely there. The 3A is executed from a spread eagle, which is easier than Hanyu’s back counter; and Hanyu even has a complex exit from the jump, which he connects very well with the rest of the program. And even when it comes to the combo, Hanyu has a difficult entry before the 4T3T. So his short program truly is the most complex, and it has been like this for the last three, four, even five seasons. Because of this, it’s very difficult to do better than Hanyu, and that’s why I think that, overall, even with a 4S, he would be the favourite in the short program – clean performance versus clean performance, of course.

(M): That said, Hanyu often struggled in the short program last year. Although that was a very complex short.

(A): With the Rittberger, though.

(M): Yes, with the Rittberger as the first jump. Still, it was a very difficult short program, with a different music.

(A): True, it had a very fast rhythm.

(M): “It was still a spectacular short program, potentially the best of the season. He didn’t manage to achieve the same scores he got with the program that allowed him to break the world record once again in Montreal. The one thing that Yuzuru Hanyu and Shoma Uno have in common is the fact that they both put the combo in the second half of the program; they’re getting more and more extreme in their choices. As I said, Yuzuru Hanyu practices the program with Lutz and Rittberger as the first jump. I wouldn’t even be all that surprised if he had the idea – if he chose the 4S instead of the 4Lo – of doing all the jumps in the second half. Let’s not forget that one of his fundamental points this season – both in practice and competition – is the 4S3T combo, that is planned after 2’20” in the free skate. So it wouldn’t be a problem even in the second half of a short program. In the free skate, the plan is to execute two 4T in the second half; historically, the two 3A have always been in the second half, too. If 1 plus 1 is equal 2, I wouldn’t rule out the option to do everything in the second half - Tutberidze style - if the 4S becomes the choice for the solo jump.

(A): Although, it would be quite difficult. It would mean they’d have to redo the choreography and all in all, they decided to repeat this program in order to focus on technical progress, without having to use too much time to learn a new one. This choice has its positive and negative aspects.

(M): Even though, as you said, with the current layout – 4S as the first jump, 4T3T in the second half – he is already impossible to beat. Because, maybe, only the best Patrick Chan can reach Yuzuru Hanyu’s quality. But Chan has some problems when it comes to certain jumps, especially the 3A and the 4S, which would be the solo jump to be executed from steps.

(A): In fact, in a free program it is different. The program is longer, you have more time [t/n: Angelo is pointing out that in the FS, Patrick Chan can better hide his weaker transitions into jumps, exploiting the longer duration to make all other parts of his skating shine], even if having two 3A is a choice that doesn’t really help him. It would be difficult for him to have a difficult entry before the 3A; it would be good already if he could execute it well with an easier entry or even with a long set up, compared to other athletes we have seen, the Japanese in particular. So even the best actual Patrick Chan can’t have a short program with the same complexity and intricacy as Hanyu. I really think that Hanyu has a huge, huge gap and advantage on everyone else in the short program. We’ll see what he decides, but for me, he does have a big margin on others even with this layout, with the 4S in the first half. And he has this advantage because he gets 112 and nobody else has even reached 110 yet. Then, of course, this is all in theory and they still all need to skate; but on paper that is what I see.

(M): Yes. To get back to the comparison between Uno and Hanyu, we have to say that one of Uno’s biggest strengths is his mastery over upper body movements. He’s one of the top three skaters in the world, maybe even more, when it comes to that. And that’s where he makes a difference. It must be said, he’s also trying to improve when it comes to one-foot skating too, compared to the past.”

(A): He’s working on that; he was quite criticized in the past because of how much he relied on two-footed skating – criticism that has even more ground because of how he skates: he executes crossovers by constantly keeping both his feet on the ice, which is neither nice to see, nor a sign of flawless technique. That’s his skating style, though. Anyway, he manages to have good fluidity and speed. He’s trying to work on this by doing more on one foot, we can see that in the short program. Then he does the 3A from a spread eagle, which is done on both feet, but it is still a spectacular and difficult entry. The step sequence is beautiful with many changes of pace. Yuzuru’s one is spectacular, too – truly masterful and always on the note. The comparison is interesting, they both have two beautiful programs. Then we have their music choices: exceptional music for Hanyu with Chopin, even though we’ve already heard it before, because it is an old program; a new choice for Shoma Uno, but new only for him, because it is – how do I say it – quite a commercial choice, let’s say.

(M): Definitely a commercial choice if we are speaking in terms of the figure skating world. Winter from Four Seasons has been used quite a lot, not necessarily just in the men’s field – and it’s debatable if the best programs using it are from the men’s discipline.

(A): True. It’s always a beautiful piece, but undeniably a choice that is – I don’t want to say banal here – a bit predictable for me.

(M): Let’s say it is a classical “Olympic season” choice.

(A): “Yes, a cautious choice, let’s say that.

(M): A choice taken to have less risks and to avoid the kind of artistic license that might not be completely understood by the judges. See Yuzuru Hanyu’s short program last season. I repeat, it was a gem for its complexity and intricacy, but it probably didn’t receive the scores it could have received, for what he expressed on the ice.

(A): Yeah, in the end, it wasn’t rewarded as it could have been, and probably those scores gave Hanyu food for thought, if we leave aside how he didn’t always perform it at his best.

(M): I think you explained it pretty much perfectly: Yuzuru Hanyu has already won the Olympics once, and he wants to defend his title – something that hasn’t been achieved in quite some time, since we have to go back to Dick Button’s wins in 1948 and 1952 . Before then, winning twice was the norm; Karl Schafer did it…

(A): We’re going back to the stone age of figure skating there, to mythical athletes.

(M): Exactly. To be able to defend the Olympic title would be something incredible and Yuzuru decided to use old programs to focus on the technical side and to push himself to the limit because of this. It’s clear that he plans to put five quads in his final free skate layout – and four different types of quads – plus two 3A’s. All of this in order to have seven elements out of eight that could receive three additional points through GOE.

(A): Incredible.

(M): “We’d have to bring up Nathan Chen to find something more extreme than that; as Nathan Chen probably plans to have eight elements that could get three additional points. And then, it’s true that there’s bad blood between Nathan Chen and the 3A, but he has shown that he can do five different quads before: he has already done them in competition and he has gotten positive GOE for them.

(A): Flip, Lutz, Toe Loop, Salchow and Rittberger. All the quads, Axel aside.

(M): Exactly. So with five quads, he could have eight elements that might receive three additional points through GOE. He could repeat 4F and 4T and then do one 3A at the end. We’re talking about something incredible, that until three years ago nobody would have even imagined. But that’s something we can think about now, because Nathan Chen can do five different quads.

(A): It’s also true that this implies taking lots of risks. We have to say that doing such a program requires amazing physical and mental conditions. We’ve already talked a bit about this before, and maybe this should give us some pause for thought, because it’s true that we are seeing more and more difficult programs in the men’s field, with difficult elements done right at the end of the program. Physical training has become pivotal. I mean, even in a terrible free skate like Hanyu’s at ACI – same competition in which he broke the world record in the short program – he had a lot of mistakes and didn’t skate well, but still, the last jump of that free was a 4T. The last jump. Mistakes aside, even the fact that he thought of doing 4T as the last jumping pass is incredible. This is proof that physical training is pivotal when it comes to trying programs like these, with seven or eight elements that are either quads or triple Axels.

(M): And before closing this part, the most impressive thing about Yuzuru Hanyu is the quality of his other elements as well. It’s this quality that allows him to reach PCS scores that almost nobody else has ever reached in history. We’d have to bring up Patrick Chan, Javier Fernandez at his very best… Shoma Uno is closing the gap – truthfully, he had a higher PCS score than Hanyu at Lombardia in the free. And when we talk of revolutionizing the system, we also come to realize that these athletes, who can jump quads, are also the best in the artistic side. At this point, our conclusion is that there’s nothing to change. Clearly, there are some skaters who are getting close to reaching the best possible combination of art and technique. I used for Hanyu the phrase, “technical omnipotence meets the best artistic quality”, but this is starting to be true, on a lesser level, for others as well. It is difficult for ISU to say “Let’s change” – what can they change? In the end, even if they limited the number of quads, the same athletes would win.

(A): Right, because they have the complete package. If Hanyu or Chan or Fernandez with less quads would be beaten in all competitions by another skater with some quality, but still less artistic quality than them, like Boyang Jin for example, then I’d say that the system is being pushed only in one direction. But that’s not how things are going, because the ones who are winning are also skaters with great artistic quality and the complete package, on spins and other elements as well. These are the ones who win, so all in all, we have to admit that this system produced five/six amazing champions in the men’s field. Incredible.

(M): That said, Boyang Jin is a skater with good quality in terms of skating. I invite whoever is listening to look at the lower half of his body and see what he does with his feet. He can improve a lot when it comes to upper body movement for sure, but Boyang Jin is a great skater.

(A): Another proof of what we were saying.

Part 6: Q&A Session

Max and Angelo answer to (some) of the various questions received.

(H): Alright, let’s read some questions from our listeners. First question <<What do you think of Cain/Leduc’s program?>>

(M): This is a provocation come on… I think the next step will be using music like “Anton aus Tyrol” by DJ Ötzi or what? Diana Ross… that’s to say their music choice is quite brave. Jokes aside, I like their free, it’s 100% adrenaline from start to finish and Ashley Cain really gives her all on the ice. The music is from “The Great Gatsby” movie soundtrack and it’s really pushing them to skate at 100 km/h, except for the middle part that has a slower tempo. Surely, when skated clean, it will be spectacular. Moreover, they really improved a lot on the technical side and there’s a reason for that: they started a collaboration with Nina Mozer. In fact, there’s more quality on lifts and other pairs elements, and they also have some strong weapons on side by side jumps, so in my opinion they can improve even more. I think the question was more a provocation on their music choice though, what do you think Angelo? (A): Yes, even if it’s not too extreme I mean it’s the Great Gatsby, we have already had skaters using this soundtrack, but maybe this kind of choice stands out more in pairs, as we’re used to a different concept of a pair’s program.

(H): Ok, second question <<Could you compare Medvedeva’s SP at Nepela with Osmond’s at Autumn Classic?>>

(M): Mh… Well there’s a different philosophy behind those two programs to begin with: Medvedeva’s has all her jumps in the second half, while Osmond’s is a bit more traditional. On the other hand, Osmond goes for Lutz and Flip, while Medvedeva has Flip and Loop. Pros and cons of both skaters are always the same: I think Osmond’s Lutz and Flip both, although improved with time, have a rather flat edge on the takeoff, so for me, they’re not +3-worthy. Medvedeva has a smarter approach: she knows the grade of execution is what makes the difference right now, so she leaves Lutz aside as it’s never been her forte, and goes for the Loop - Medvedeva’s Loop is among the top 3 in the world right now, she even does it with both arms up now - and the Flip. In my opinion, Medvedeva’s SP is still highly superior in terms of transitions compared to Osmond’s, because each movement is studied to impress the judges and make sure her PCS benefits from it. (A): Yes, the way it’s built is almost “scientific” in its excessive care to every detail. Also, Medvedeva’s skating is really rich, with difficult transitions, but if you look really carefully at what makes her stand out among the others is her ability to link each jump to the rest of the choreography, particularly the exits of the jumps. In this she’s really the number one in the World and it’s not even up for debate. Leaving the Lutz out of the SP is a smart choice, I agree with her, even analyzing what she did in the free program at Nepela, because she had an edge call there on the Lutz. (M): Yes, although that Lutz is now in the second half of her free, she used to have it in the first half until last year, so she may need some adjustment. Basically, in this free program Evgenia only has a double Axel in the first half, all the rest is in the second half. She’s pushing herself harder because she sees the competition on her ice rink, as Zagitova easily jumps two double Axels and seven triples in the second half of her free and right now she’s technically superior.

Back to Osmond, even though we’ve been promoting her for so many years, I think she’s still a cut below Medvedeva, even on PCS.

(A): Well maybe on Interpretation, she could be better, but Evgenia is improving a lot. On Composition… it’s trickier. Transitions, it’s not up for debate. Skating Skills, it may depend on one’s taste because they have two completely different styles. Osmond has powerful skating, with great speed, sure, but I was rewatching Evgenia at Nepela and she has a great ability to accelerate, her knees are bent, she has great quality indeed, so in my opinion she wins this one too. (M): It’s interesting to point out that when Medvedeva won Junior Worlds, she didn’t have this quality in her skating; the one that really stood out in that competition was Higuchi, who skated two times faster than the others. Anyways, to close this topic, the real difference between these two is consistency, as Osmond’s biggest problem is managing two double Axels and seven triples in her long program.

(H): Let’s move on to the third question <<Max, if you were her coach, how would you set Carolina’s free program layout? Would you risk with 3F3T or would you go for 3T3T? What’s her current choreography lacking?>>

(M): Mh… we can really talk a lot on this one! I think I’d follow this reasoning: if they decide to go for 3F3T in the SP, because the success rate is high in training, then they should do the same in the free program, as you must consider this skater’s own characteristics, her age - by the way she’ll be 31 at the next Olympics, you need to go back to 1924 Olympic Games to find a medalist over 30 years of age – Ethel Muckelt if I remember correctly. Let’s go back to Kostner and her programs though, she’s a skater from another era honestly. She grew up under another system and if you compare her programs to Trusova - currently the top junior lady - you can see the difference in the sport itself. And when I made that example of giving 9.5 in Skating Skills and 6.5 in Transitions I was referring first and foremost to Kostner. (A): Yes, certainly there are athletes for whom it is easier to tell the difference between the various components and Carolina’s case is emblematic. On Skating Skill, Interpretation, charisma, she’s currently on another level compared to the others. Mostly on Interpretation. On Skating Skills, it’s a bit more complex now, but even watching from home, you can focus on the blade and see how tilted it is on the ice and how deep the edge is. That is a sign of great quality. Nevertheless, it’s true that right now there’s a big gap on Transitions between her and some of her competitors. (M): On Skating Skills, the main difference between old Kostner and today’s Kostner is the ice coverage of her skating, and her jumps are smaller too. I repeat, it’s a 31 year-old skater we’re talking about here [t/n So it’s normal some of her best traits are no longer as good as when she was younger]. Back to the layout, I think it’s best to have the same triple-triple combination in both programs. The difference in base value between a Toe Loop and a Flip is only one point, so you could get it back with a higher grade of execution on a 3T3T, same as Daleman does, for instance. I think that’s a strategy that could work for her, but then again, to answer this question properly, we should see what she does in training everyday, because if the success rate on 3F3T is above 80%, then she should definitely go with that one. Yes, she’d be behind many of her competitors on TES, but then she can make up the gap with PCS and especially on the components in which she’s better than the others. She could get a high PCS even if she were judged more accurately according to what really happens on the ice, plus the scoring system would certainly look more believable. The real problem is in the free skate, because I have yet to see a triple Lutz from her since her comeback, so in the free, in my opinion, she should go for two double Axels and six triples. So, if you go for 3T3T, your choices are narrower: you can put out two Axels, a triple Salchow, but then you have to try two Flips and a Loop and it gets quite demanding. If you go for 3F3T instead, you could try a solo triple Toe Loop in the second half. It’s not really easy, Mishin and his team who see her everyday would know better. At Lombardia Trophy, the plan was 3F3T, then 3F, 3Lo, and 3T as the first solo triple jump in the second half. It’s a plausible choice in my opinion. That 2A-1Lo-2S confuses me a bit though, probably it’s an emergency plan in case she misses the opening combination.

(A): Yes, I thought so too. If she misses her opening triple-triple, she could recover the sixth planned triple with 2A-1Lo-3S, that could be her plan B in case she misses the 3T on her 3F3T. (M): Anyways, pristine clean Kostner can get up to 75 points in a short program, and in a free skate with clean 2+6, she could get around 135/140 points so it’s still a highly competitive total score. The problem is that probably you will need 220 points to medal at the Olympics. That said, I believe Kostner’s plan is to be competitive at the Olympics and maybe skate her free in the last group, proving she’s probably the most enduring skater ever. Our biggest regret is not having seen 15-year-old Kostner competing with today’s young talents, born and bred under the new scoring system - mind you, at that age, she had no problem jumping 3Lz3T, 3F3Lo, 3Lo3Lo. She was somewhat in the wrong place at the wrong time, but alas, history can’t be changed. It’s obvious that today, she can’t challenge those combinations, but aside from that, it’s difficult to rival her competitors on GOE too. Today we see Rippons and Tanos everywhere, one can like it or not, but the judges must reward those difficult variations. To close the topic, Carolina is a skater from another era with all the pros and cons that comes with it. Asada struggled too until she retired, Kim wouldn’t even medal probably because it’s a different sport than the one she used to dominate. (A): Yeah, many things have changed: grade of execution, consistency, number of triples, distribution of the jumps, etc. (M): Summing up: I don’t have a solid answer to the question. If 3F3T is good, then she should go for it, moreso because winning or losing in this season won’t change anything of what she has already accomplished in this sport.

(H): Back to music with this question <<What do you think about Virtue/Moir’s Short Dance music choice?>>

(M): Woah… Ok, I think Rumba is more difficult than last season’s pattern dance, and this means the Short Dance will play a huge role in deciding the medals, in my opinion. That said, I believe the repertoire on Rumba is really so vast, it makes little sense to me that they are picking such extreme songs. I’d like to wait and see what happens at Finlandia Trophy, but if I had to judge based on what I saw up until now, I think Virtue/Moir are still above the rest on the SD. Remember these two grew up with compulsory dance, so it’s obvious they are superior to the rest on pattern dance. Other teams can try to impress the judges with something else, but as of now Virtue/Moir’s SD is the best one. Music choice is intriguing for sure, I would have picked something more classic, but it’s my personal taste, and I’m a bit conservative on certain aspects. (A): Yeah, but to tell the truth, this is not a specific case, it’s more of a general trend. We’ve heard so many rearranged pieces rather than original Rumba music, which of course could displease traditionalists like you - let’s remember that pattern dance comes from compulsory dance, which in turn was an attempt to replicate ballroom dancing on the ice, so there’s a big musical repertoire to choose from. On the other hand, maybe all in all, Virtue/Moir’s choice isn’t really one of the worst we’ve seen, and the program itself is beautiful, so the music doesn’t impact the quality of their Short Dance at all, in my opinion. We’ve seen much more debatable choices.

(M): Undoubtedly. For those of you who don’t know, Virtue/Moir picked three big classic rock hits: “Sympathy for the devil” by The Rolling Stones, “Hotel California” by Eagles, and “Oye como va” by Santana. The layout is the same as last season, with pattern dance at the beginning, and it’s a very smart choice that makes a big difference.

(H): I see the Virtue/Moir topic is going strong, so here’s our last question for tonight <<Who do you like more between Virtue/Moir and Davis/White?>>

(M): Ehhh… very difficult question. They’re two very different teams, even if there’s a school of thought, which I’m not a part of, that claims Zueva’s ice dance teams ruined the sport. I absolutely don’t agree with it, and I think both teams have very strong and peculiar characteristics. We’re talking about four great skaters, I mean Charlie White could do wonders even with hockey skates on.

(A): I agree, an absolute genius of the blade, doesn’t matter which blade it is. (M): I must say that in 2014, Davis/White had an edge over Virtue/Moir and, as scores showed, they were close to perfection. In other times, with other pattern dances, Virtue/Moir were superior, it was an amazing duel. Although young Davis/White were way behind Virtue/Moir, but with time and work - and thanks to the fact that they have trained together in the first half of their career - they improved a lot. We often remark on Charlie White’s ability, but Meryl Davis is equally amazing, because you must be incredibly good to be able to keep up with Charlie’s speed across the ice. (A): I think you mentioned a crucial point: Davis/White’s huge improvement over the years. In my opinion, that’s what makes them stand out, they lived in Virtue/Moir’s shadow for years, but with hard work, they were able to turn their career upside down, they closed the gap with them, they surpassed their long-time rivals, and they never looked back. (M): I have to say sometimes, I hear people saying “Papadakis/Cizeron are so young, they’ll be the youngest ice dance team to win the Olympics etc..” and first of all, they have yet to win the Olympics, but most importantly, it seems everyone forgot Tessa Virtue wasn’t even 21 yet when she won in Vancouver, let’s remember that please! (A): We could add that probably Virtue/Moir had more class, overall. (M): Yes, that’s where Tessa shines, we often remark upon that, and we’ve often described her as “ethereal.” If we consider carriage, presence, and class, she’s really superior to the rest. Then of course, her partner is the fiercest of competitors, he would have probably taken up wrestling or something like that if he weren’t a skater. They’re really a match made in heaven, and probably they’ll end up married for real, we never really understood what the deal was there…

And here you are the full translation of the second podcast.

As it happened in this episode, Max & Angelo will answer to questions in next one, too. So if you have any, you’d like to ask them, just drop it in our inbox.

#fs translation #yuzuru hanyu #figure skating #podcast: kiss & cry #max ambesi #nebelhorn trophy 2017 #isu junior grand prix #challenger series #ISU scoring system #shoma uno #virtue/moir #davis/white #nathan chen #carolina kostner #savchenko/massot #and many more

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