#refleckdoll

[imthepunchlord]

I think that the main problem with Marinette is that she always gets blamed for minor things, but her bigger mistakes are ignored.

She also gets blamed for things that aren't her fault. Like Reverser I blame Nathaniel and his extreme expectations, and Refleckdoll, it was Alya who was making things worse for Juleka while Marinette was trying to help. Gamer's another as she did play fair and square, and won fair and square.

But yeah, ML has an issue with priorities. With the mindset that ONLY Marinette can be at fault, which has her at fault for things that actually aren't her fault or are minor things when there are bigger faults with others; and that, for Marinette's actual faults and issues, they don't focus on the actual problems.

For one thing, Marinette is a perfectionist, in her work and responsibilities, and in how she helps people. This leads to her being meddling and controlling. With good intentions but she can take it far. She even has this idea that only she can be the solution, though more in an Atlas complex way than being egotistical.

Which I'll give the show this, by how it's set up, Adrien and Marinette kinda feed this bad aspect of their dynamic into each other. Adrien goofs around as a hero or doesn't take situations seriously with his flirting at bad times, so Marinette feels like she has to step up more as leader and responsible one, and Adrien doesn't get a chance to take things more seriously or be the leader as Marinette doesn't expect him to, which leads to his frustration of not being as valued as a partner like he wants and he acts out, and Marinette sees she can't rely on him as much and it just cycles.

I know the show sorta tries to address this with the insistence that Marinette can trust Alya and doesn't need to shoulder everything, which is great, if they didn't take it back right away validating Marinette in being right in not trusting Alya.

Which man, that's one of Marinette's actual big issues, and you address it, and then take two steps back and reverse and vindicate the flawful mindset.

Another big issue is her over involving herself in this she doesn't or shouldn't get involved with, meddling included. She could do to ease back, let others solve their own problems. Like, Darkblade comes to mind (though there may be a better example). I do think it was a good episode, but you got Marinette admitting she's already busy, and doesn't want to be class rep, but steps up as no one else is. This is just an added responsibility she doesn't need but does so because she's involving herself in others problems.

This also leads into the other issue: Marinette's tendency to overpile onto her plate. They even focused on this in Gamer 2.0 but instead of doing a lesson of learning to ease up, take a break, and have fun (which Adrien could've been great for, heck, could've had them bond over a busy lifestyle); but nope, she passes Max off to her parents and continue being busy.

And of course, there's the big issue of her crush.

Like, they're 13-14 yos dealing with first crushes, they're going to be cringe and crazy as they don't know how to handle this, but they just take it way too far. And the extremes it's taken isn't even funny but concerning.

Marinette having his schedule.

The hoard of pictures.

Jealousy that spirals to extremes.

And having rose colored view of Adrien, to thinking he can never do wrong and feeling like she needs to protect and assist him, even at the risk of herself (Collector).

Part of the worst part about this is that this exists for the writers' amusement, taking it to unlikable extremes and not portrayed as really bad flaws that need to be addressed or have lessons about; which leads me to question what's the exaggeration and what can be more accurate/reasonable for the cringey, dramatic crush. Some of which could've been fine issues to fault her for and for her to get called out and learn from, but we don't get that, all we get is unpleasantness.

Oh! You could also cover Marinette's lack of prioritizing herself, and may not knowing how to take a break and have fun. Cause I don't know if this girl knows how to relax. And she definitely doesn't behave like a kid, but much older. Could even delve into the friendship problems she has not really connecting with her friends as well because she doesn't know how to be a kid, how to mess around and goof off.

Marinette has a good number of issues and flaws that can be addressed and worked with, but they pick the wrong ones to focus on.

[theerurishipper]

After it was confirmed that Adrien fell in love with Marinette during the embarrassing statue scene I saw a post celebrating it. Which, okay. Good for the shippers who are still on the boat.

Unfortunately, the post went on to say that Marinette should have punched Adrien in the face for pranking him, and that he would most definitely fallen DEEPER in love with her for it. Because he loves strong women.

Please can we not romanticize domestic abuse? It wasn't cute when Lady Noire called Mister Bug stupid and hit him with her staff. He seemed really upset about that.

Sorry. I just don't like the double standards. If it was a guy physically assaulting a girl, he would be villified but because it's Marinette manhandling Adrien, it's absolved.

I have to agree with you anon. Adrien loves badass women who could probably kick his ass, yeah, but that doesn't mean he wants them to do it. He doesn't like when Lady Noire hits him on the head in Refleckdoll, like you said. Honestly, the show actually tried pulling this in Glaciator 2 by having Ladybug toss Chat Noir in a trashcan, and it seemingly tried to paint it as some girlboss™ moment, but I just came out of it thinking that it was kinda... gross and awful? Because you just know that if Chat Noir had done it, everyone would be salting on him something fierce, and honestly? They would be right. I really dislike the double standards in play there, that it's somehow okay for Marinette to be physical with Adrien. It does seem like downplaying and kinda romanticizing that kind of physical violence to me, especially in the context of Adrien already being a victim of abuse.

Idk, maybe I'm just sensitive or something, but jokes about physically beating your partner make me uncomfortable. I don't mind a good "loves a woman who can kick his ass" joke, but there's a line, you know? It's just weird to me. Maybe it's just me, though, idk.

Thank you for your ask!

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Feel gree to forgo answering if the rage is too high but, why is Refleckdoll so rage inducing? I have heard the same from others, but it never struck me as overly problematic? I know there's some 'forcing the akuma' and some don't like Adrien still being second fiddle with the LB miraculous. Is there something else?

I’ve discussed it in length.

But basically it does the power swap trope really bad.

Like every step

And also just bad character writing.

Which to me is super annoying

[cornerverse]

What do you have planned for Lady Luck Refleckdoll? I am guess both Adrien and Marinette tell Alya not to invite Kagami and Luka because they would not be able to focus, but Alya does it anyway and leaving Juleka feeling ignored.

Nope! Actually very little romance shenanigans!

I will say that Marinette's idea for an Akuma-themed clothing line comes into play!

[legallyspawned]

Possibly unpopular opinion, but I'm gonna say it:

It is actually kind genius that Hawkmoth's Akuma have such terrible designs. Like, he is supposed to be the top fashion designer in the world in the MLB verse, nobody would suspect him of creating such abominable outfits as the Bubbler or Refleckdoll.

Having said that, I 100% believe that it was unintentional on the parts of the creators of the show.

[ohifonlyx33]

So I realized I probably haven't seen a lot of the episodes in English and in order. And since I was bored the other evening, I started rewatching ML starting at season 3. Some thoughts...

(long post)

Chameleon: Evil, psychotic Lila who pretends to be nice is actually an amazing premise for a villain. But the class should know better, at least to SOME degree, or her lies should be more believable. Poor sweet Adrien continues to believe Lila just lies for attention and that he can change her. Marinette facing serious threats from Lila and almost getting akumatized was very dramatic. The kissing akuma is thematic, but still very uncomfortable to witness. Adrien looks at Marinette and smiles, leaving us all dead. 7/10

Animaestro: Marinette may be absolutely off-the-wall doing some bat-whack things in this episode, but the genre-savvy 2D/3D fight is just too much fun to hate the whole episode. 5/10

Bakerix: My dad is basically this man, but with less talent for baking bread. HARD pass. 2/10

Backwarder: Good akuma concept with Lenore's powers and the lucky charm solution. Miraculous history/backstory. Adrien and Gabriel both transforming in a train bathroom is comedic gold. A little Adrienette and a Ladynoir hand kiss. 6.5/10

Refleckdoll: Sigh. Again, Juleka? Ok ok. The senti/akuma is kinda lame. But I do like Juleka, regardless of hating Refleckta. And we got classmates in a reasonable setting. Adrien helping Marinette because he's best boi. Then we have Mayura serving A Lookë™. Not to mention Kwami SWAP. We love to Mister Bug AND Lady Noire... (although SMH, let Mister Bug figure out his own dang Lucky Charm) 7/10

Weredad: Now here's a fun episode to watch after Elation. SO MUCH MARICHAT AWKWARDNESS. I do have a few problems with this episode lie the contrived setup for the plot, the dialogue that keeps explaining people's previously-established motivations, and the rushed conclusion to Marinette's "crush" Still, an absolute DELIGHT. Love the fairytale motif too. 8.5/10

Silencer: I liked the premise of the music industry being brutal and a villain using your voice. But I hate the execution. I don't like Luka's declarations. Or the use of a montage as a replacement for relationship development... although I don't like the chemistry between Luka and Marinette, so I'm happy not to see more of it at the same time. There's some fun or clever moments, throughout, but I'm not sure I'm sold on this episode overall. 3/10 Onichan: Possibly one of the weirdest akumas, but Adrien IMMEDIATELY recognizes her. Kagami being akumatized over Adrien also felt too sudden given how little we've seen of them together this season. Lila being her worst self even while being hunted down... typical. Adrien as Chat Noir watching girls fight over him is hilarious. But the girls themselves, including Marinette, are all being..... well, deranged. 5/10 Miraculer: Gabriel teaming up with Lila to manipulate Chloe... only for Sabrina to get upset.... Miraculer could have been the most difficult villain to defeat, but alas.... Sabrina. We have some interesting momenst with Nino and Alya, Sabrina, and even Chat getting cataclysmed, but alas not much to keep my attention for long. 5/10 Oblivio: Such a fun episode start-to-finish. Almost nothing here I don't like. I love the way it starts mid-fight and shows us only what Chat and Ladybug know. Everything is great, but it somehow feels like it could have been just a little.... more. 9/10 Desperada: Some parts of this episode are a little ridiculous. Especially with the messy and confusing Luka/Marinette/Adrien/Kagami dynamics. And Adrien's snake outfit hurts me. But I do love seeing Ladrien as a superhero duo and seeing the necessity of having Chat Noir helping Ladybug at the same time. I just feel the story is muddled. 6/10

Chris Master: I don't care what anyone says, this episode is a hoot AND a holler. I absolutely consider it iconic. Yes, this is stupid. I don't care 7/10 Startrain: Minor moment with cute, wholesome Adrienette, a good akuma concept, plus Max kills it. But really Sabrina? and RIP to everyone's braincells when Adrien and Marinette both just happen to go missing before LB and CN appear. 7/10 Kwami Buster: Mrs. Mendeleiev is whack and the Kwamis are horrifying, but Multimouse is bae. PLEASE. Marinette is on some next-level brain juice with her entire elaborate plan. Meanwhile, Adrien just plays dumb. There are two types of people here.... and there are both idiots in love with each other. 6.5/10

TBC

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“Am I the only one that wished that the swap in Reflekdoll was kept permanently? I found LadyNoir and Mister Bug to not only be both enjoyable but it fit their aesthetics and personalities more than Ladybug and Cat Noir. I'm actually hoping for a future swap between them again or even more miraculous holders in the future.”

[marichattrash]

everyone is complaining about Juleka calling Rose her bff but y'all are forgetting that in this show "good friend" means crushing HARD so "bff" must mean that Juleka and Rose are definitely madly in love

[xhanisai]

Hey there been a few days. Did the money thing get sorted yet? In any case for your consideration: Kiss AU Reflekdoll episode. (I'm a sucker for Lady Noire). But seeing as they have to kiss to transform you might have to get creative as to why they swapped.

Yo! I’ve managed to successfully pay my rent thanks to everyone’s support (everyone pretty much saved my life here cos my scholarship money has been cut almost by half loooool) 

I’ve answered about how they kiss in this ask ---> (x) So, before sure to check everything in the Kiss AU tag on my blog in case you have questions that are already answered (That goes to everyone else too!) But anyways, let’s get to it~

- So we start off with Juleka wanting to model Marinette’s designs, Luka giving her some good ol brotherly encouragement and clipping her hair to the side so that we can finally see her beautiful face~~~~

- Adrien has already been decided to model for Marinette’s site; it’s not the first time he’s done it and certainly isn’t the last. They’re looking for someone to model as a female counterpart to emphasise that the designs are unisex. Adrien has suggested numerous times for Marinette to do so but she keeps shying out.

“But you’re so beautiful and your designs would look so cute on you! Come on Marinette~”

“No-ooo, we need someone taller, someone with a chic style, someone who would look level with you,”

“No one else looks better with me than you,”

“Pfft. Flirt.”

“I’m being serious. I’ll even ask the other girls for their opinions and I can guarantee that they’d all agree with me.”

“DON’TYOUDARE-”

- That’s when Juleka appears with her new hairdo, asking so shyly if she can model. Everyone else just melts and gives her a huge hug- Adrien included. He and Marinette could model another time but he’s super happy that Juleka is trying to come out of her comfort zone. 

- In Marinette’s room where everyone is setting everything up, Juleka not only freezes up and has a panic attack, she faints on the spot because she’s so overwhelmed. When she comes to, everyone’s apologising to her, trying their best to help her out.

- Juleka feels shitty and thinks she’s ruined everything so she takes a break downstairs, changed back into her original clothes. Rose comes down and talks with her. We get some really cute Julerose moments here~~ (those two are also definitely dating hue~~) 

- Meanwhile, the girls finally convinced Marinette to dress up in Jules’ place since Adrien really needs to head out soon (was it fencing practise? I don’t remember). 

- Both Tikki and Plagg warn them about taking off the miraculouses but they get brushed off. (Same as canon basically).

- Adrien totally sees her checking him out and combusting on the spot. Being the lil shit he is, he wraps an arm around her shoulder, asking “What did you say just now?” in the most innocent tone possible. Marinette gets revenge by replying back with “I said that you’re lucky that everyone else is here otherwise I’d have kissed you till you passed out cos you’re so unbelievably hot. Satisfied?!” Adrien turns into a puddle of happiness and shyness. 

- Although there was some professional shots, the girls made Marinette and Adrien do some romantic poses as well for the sake of it. We have Adrien dipping Marinette in one whilst there’s another where she’s holding him bridal style. Rose left earlier on to join them whilst Juleka brooded alone in Marinette’s room (even though she told Rose to leave).

- Boom! She gets akumatised by both Mayura and Le Papillon.

- When Marinette and Adrien realises that an akuma has surfaced, they hide away together to avoid getting hit. 

- They quickly kiss to transform only to open their eyes in shock when they see that it hasn’t worked. They try again plenty of times before they realise that they don’t have their miraculouses with them.

“Why- Mm!- Isn’t- Hnn!- It- M- WORKING!?” Marinette growled out after the umpteenth kiss, fingers digging into her partner’s shoulders whilst his were on her waist. The chaotic duo tried to catch their breath, panting and confused. 

“Have we leveled up or something? Do we need to use more tongue? Is there any other-” Adrien was halted when he spotted Marinette’s brows furrowing. She quickly picked up his hand, eyes widening at the lack of the ring and then immediately shot her hands to her ears. 

“Our miraculouses are still in your bodyguard’s car along with Tikki and Plagg...” Both of their skins paled before simultaneously rushing towards the vehicle, trying their utmost best to avoid the blasts.

- Unfortunately, not only do they get seperated, they get turned into Reflecktor clones. However, as per canon, they get approached by the opposite kwamis and immediately transform in order to find the other.

- Mister Bug finds Lady Noire in amidst the battle field, catching her eye so that she can follow him. 

- They get that cute, spiderman kiss, with Mister Bug dangling upside down and Lady Noire playing along. As a result, they feel more of their powers rushing in which promptly causes Buggaboy to fall down in a slump. (they don’t notice Alya who’s transformed as another Reflektor clone, taking a few pics).

- We get lots of banter, clumsy teamwork and many close calls. The duo agrees on instead of trying to be LIKE each other in the suit, they should follow their instincts. Marinette manages that with ease but it takes a while for Adrien to follow suite. He does so in the nick of time.

- Plus, with a few clues from Lady Noire, Mister Bug manages to work out his Lucky Charm and the duo saves the day.

“Always told you that you’d make a great kitten, My Lady~” Mister Bug coos, kissing the tip of his partner’s braid with a wink. She in turn playfully rolled her eyes, flicking his chest.

“Though I do miss your bell, you look lovely in spots,” She winked back, laughing at the way the boy swooned. “What is with the extra padding though? Trying to achieve that superhero abs look?” She knocked on his chest playfully.

“Padding? But they’re real.” 

“W-What?”

“If you don’t believe me, I can always strip for you?” 

“NO THANKS!” The boy only cocked his head to the side innocently as his counterpart babbled incoherently. 

- The girls regroup with Mari and Adrien, Juleka apologising to them all for getting akumatised. Everyone is quick to assure that it’s not her fault and that they can do the shoot again so that Juleka can model. 

- With a few puppy eyes to Gorilla, the bodyguard let them go.

- We get a cute Julerose kiss towards the end in a picture with everyone else cheering in the background~

Hope you enjoyed!

[red-skady]

Mr. bug after seeing Marinette by his car.

[invictusdarling]

i want what plagg’s giving them

[imthepunchlord]

What exactly caused you to lose the rose-colored glasses for Tikki? Like was it one specific big thing or a bunch of small things?

It was a bunch of factors that I began to notice pile up, that were problematic and aggravating. And then it persisted, and in hindsight to seeing this, you got see a some red flags in the past episodes, even as far back as s1.

Biggest factor is that Tikki at the core is a mouth piece for the writers to criticize Marinette and her choices without offering REAL help and solutions. She's not even a true character and is more of an aggravation at this point. Biggest point to this is the fact that her criticism is EXCLUSIVELY to Marinette.

Given how much Tikki cares about how Marinette performs as a hero, to uphold her duty, and was the one to push secrecy; with how Adrien acts as a hero, you would think she'd be bothered by how he behaves as Chat Noir, and how he keeps pushing for a reveal and disrupting the hero work. Even pranking LB once during an akuma attack and messing up her Lucky Charm in Refleckdoll. Now, Adrien isn't her charge, but he IS getting in the way of her charge's duty and goal, and she should at least be getting onto Plagg about these issues. It'd be true to her character with how quick she is to get onto Marinette about things she doesn't liek. But the writers have a bias for Adrien and narrative wise, to them, he's not doing anything wrong.

Only Marinette does wrong. So Adrien gets to act as he wishes as a hero and face no consequences, leaving Marinette to struggle and step up.

This also extends to outside Adrien.

Take Gamer where Marinette had won fair and square in the competition, Tikki made a comment about her not being considerate to Max's feelings. Which like, it's a competition to see the best of the best. Max isn't being considerate about other's feelings. Why should Marinette prioritize other's feelings here when Max isn't?

And this just comes down to the idea the writers have that only Marinette can be wrong. Tikki's role here is to make sure we know Marinette is in the wrong.

Other issues is that Tikki is set up as a mentor figure and adviser/guide/conscious, but she doesn't truly do that. She's only here to call out or question and not offer help or solutions. To name a few:

Refleckta, she protests Marinette trying to sabotage Picture Day, but she doesn't elaborate on why this is bad or what Marinette can do alternatively to solve this issue of Juleka being excluded.

Antibug, where she's "advising" Marinette that she can help even not transformed, but she's not offering solutions to Marinette on how.

Another factor is that Tikki is not here to really help Marinette.

Take Frozer where Marinette is upset and confused and Tikki just asks "Why are you sad?" Why do you think she is???? Have you really not been paying attention? You're right there to witness it all.

Darkblade, she knows how much Marinette has on her plate, as someone going to school, who likes to create, and is a full time hero who is a MUST SHOW; yet pushes her to step up as class rep, piling more onto her plate and responsibility.

Bubbler, with her discouraging using the miraculous selfishly despite it would be helpful to Marinette if she was allowed to use it selfishly at times; which is extra aggravating as Adrien gets to use his ring selfishly.

Troublemaker, Marinette is having a break down but Tikki is acting like she's overreacting and should just be ok with this being how Adrien finds out about her crush.

You also got Tikki here to offer love advise, but later s4 ep takes a stance that kwamis don't fall in love so they can't really help; so that means she's aimlessly stringing Marinette along in romantic advise, not knowing if it'll really help or not.

Kuro Neko, allowing Plagg to deceive Marinette.

The little bit I've seen of s4 of Marinette with the kwamis, she's struggling to handle all the kwamis and Tikki isn't stepping up to help manage them despite Marinette getting very overwhelmed.

If you really want a specific moment, I'd say Frozer is where the rose glasses started to come off. Then I look at Tikki as a whole, how much does she really bring to Marinette's life as a character and presence. And she comes with a lot more stress and unhelpfulness. She's easily the most unlikable kwami out of them all.

A big part of that does stem from her being more of a mouthpiece than an actual character, but it doesn't make her any less aggravating to me.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

I was watching the episode refleckdoll and I was thinking that like maybe Adrien could be a fashion Director for his future.

Whenever I watch Reflekdoll I only see red and I’m filled with blind rage.

So I’m glad others can get something out of it

[princessdragon96]

Rose Lavillant says Bi/Pan rights!

[goofygoldengirl]

NOW KISS 

[the-shy-gamer-girl]

It's just a small detail, but I love how they put the effort and detail into the cat miraculous when Marinette had it in Reflektdoll. In its detransformed state it's thinner and instead of Silver it's Rose Gold.