#rrverse close reading stuff

[cabin13cappuccino]

Jackie. I love your writing + how your brain works. And what you wrote about Will is so beautiful and true. So know I say this with love and respect: I think the above includes a reductive take on Nico's grief to the point of erasing it and his growth. I do think there is an easy remedy that strengthens what you have written, though.

My thesis is the following: Nico's grief is a backpack by the time he starts dating Will only because he lived with it as ballast trying to drown him and he worked through it. He is uniquely positioned to be the Beatrice to Will's Danté to help guide Will to do the same.

Let's start with some textual support:

Nico offering himself repeatedly for the "a soul for a soul" exchange as evidenced by the conversation in BotL we overhear from Percy's dream is peak self-hating behavior. He'd rather give up his life to bring his sister back, who would then be free of him (the very thing that drove her to the Hunters in the first place). Yes, he wants her back, but if given a choice between bringing her back and continuing to live, his first move was to offer himself. That's simultaneously indicative of love and of how little Nico regarded his own life.

He says he hated himself in HoH because he had feelings for Percy, i.e. the guy he held responsible for his sister's death. Even in the context of internalized homophobia, how could he not have construed that as a betrayal of her? His grief is fueling his self-loathing.

Now let's zoom out a bit:

When Nico lost Bianca, he lost the only person in the world he knew (and remembered) loved him. His only caretaker, his only family. That is a grief you, by definition, cannot bury. You have to face it because it obliterates your world. It was a grief that destroyed his life: he became homeless, alone, and obsessed with getting her back. He was sleeping on the banks of the Styx. Once it was clear Bianca didn't want to be brought back, Nico was visibly set adrift. That scene in BotL as the quest group is leaving the ranch and asking Nico to come along very clearly has him broken: he looks like he hasn't slept, he's wearing an oversized bathrobe (not exactly the dress of someone who is a paragon of mental health), and the shadows are literally reaching for him.

Now, that is a turning point: after that, Nico threw himself into the fight against Kronos. This is the point where you can argue that the grief starts becoming an inspiration in his life, but I wrote a whole thing about how he behaves in a way that demonstrates - at best- a reckless disregard for and devaluing of his own life. It's not until the back half of HoH (a little) and BoO where he begins to be challenged on the "please use me up until there's nothing left otherwise what am I good for" mentality and starts to move away from it.

The Solangelo contrast is more the juxtaposition of Nico's "my grief has blown up my entire world, internal and external, and left me with nothing so I have to claw my way back through it or remain stuck forever" versus Will's "my grief blew up my internal world but my external world kept demanding I push it down and be useful so I stomp on it until it chokes me".

tl;dr: Nico had no choice but to face his grief. Will was never given the choice to do so.

I'm sorry Jackie plz don't hate me

every time i write will. no matter in what way. teasing laughing breaking or intimate. he is soaked in quiet grief. no matter what i try. whereas nico when i write nico he can be focused.

i think the difference is like. nicos grief propels him. he has leaned into it as long as hes had it for support. for inspiration. it has always been a thick cloud behind him, to fall back onto should he want to need to. he knows intimately how to deal with his grief because he never tried not to. it does not surprise him or interrupt him, it is so much under his control...because he wants it there. to him it is love. he has never hated himself because bianca was killed. he hated percy. his father. kronos. camp.

whereas will...will shoved his grief down so deep that he has no control when it bubbles up and blows in his face. he does not know how to stop it and it is too far down for him to control it. he is swimming desperately on top of a bubbling geyser and getting constantly burned by the heavy jetstreams. and he blames himself for drowning. you know

nico's grief is a backpack will's is a rock on a chain he drags everywhere and keeps trying only to lengthen the links that continue to make the weight heavier

[tsartistry]

transmasc!zia rashid thoughts? im sure you've heard me or owl yap about it in the rrverse server :D

It is not something that I had previously considered before I saw you & others talk about it in the discord! I know Transmasc!Zia is very close to your heart, thougn.

I imagine Iskandar would have been very encouraging of Zia's transition journey if it ever came up in conversation. In the Brooklyn House Magician's Manual, we see rhe way he immediately jumped to support when he realized Zia was hosting Nepthys, despite how his society says godlings should be punished. It's clear he prioritizes Zia's physical and emotional well-being over societal standards.

Being cis I don't feel qualified to comment on the personal experiences a transmasc!Zia might live, but I think the concept is super cool to consider and would be delighted to read more stuff with that concept!

I also remember reading somewhere that Zia is actually a masculine name, but I can't cite my source for that. With that in mind, perhaps the transition has already started.

[cabin13cappuccino]

Ooh when I get home from work I am going to go ham on this with references...this is what I'm built for...stay tuned

thinking about things... anyone want to talk about what they think nico got up to in botl...

[the-ghost-king]

You know how everyone has at least one minor rrverse character with no significance but they're you're favorite? Okay Mitchell from the Aphrodite Cabin is one of mine...

Make him Italian, probably Southern Italian I like to imagine his family immigrated from the Florentine area

Trans masc

At first he thinks he's just a gnc trans guy but after he starts medical transition he realizes he's nonbinary

Uses he/they pronouns generally

But when people he's close to talk about or to him and they're using nouns to describe him they use female gendered nouns (ex: daughter, lady, girl, etc), and yes these are a part of his gender expression

Also the type of person to hyphenate their deadname with their original middle name as their new middle name

They definitely are the type of person too who just invites invasive and awkward questions (as long as they're being asked in good faith) for educational purposes, and he'll give you the most derailed answer if that's what you want

Also he might be femme but he's not weak and he will beat you up if you're just being unnecessarily transphobic

His dad is a high quality fashion designer and because of this Mitchell is kind of spoiled (okay very spoiled) about clothes, always having high thread count clothes and also personally tailored pieces

They've got some casual plans to take over their dad's business but he thinks that he wants to expand it out into a more affordable fashion market for the average person (they like affordable and sustainable fashion too! The artistic pieces are nice but it's not a long-term sustainable business model!)

He personally dresses very camp, even the cishets look at him and go "oh he's you know... _/‾"

They love a good suit, very gender to him

Him, Nico, and Chiara all getting together to talk in Italian; and have culturefests or something

Watching Italian films, and TV shows, updating Nico on modern Italian culture, etc

Bi or Pan, but doesn't really feel the need to label himself, usually just says multisexual or mspec unless someone doesn't know what that means

His attraction to women is gay, his attraction to nonbinary people is gay, his attraction to men is gay... If you can't handle that you're not their target audience

Idk how old they are but Rick's timeline is fake and so are ages then, so him and Austin are dating

Very cute couple, very casual dynamic, probably have won "cutest couple award" or something at some point

Definitely went to all their high school dances together

Their favorite color... Probably green or pink... Yellow is also a good option

Mitchell probably wears glasses for the "aesthetic" but has worse vision with them on

Would not put it past him to be a social media influencer but have a secret Twitter account for BL

He definitely reads GL too

Very into anime, jdrama, and manga, likes manhwa and kdrama and any other variation of those things

Yeah probably kpop too

They probably like stuff like "My First First Love" and "Cherry Magic!" etc

First anime was probably one of the ones everyone seems to start with so maybe "Your Lie in April" or "Ouran High school Host Club"... His all time favorite is probably "Given"

First Manga... Probably "Orange" or something unexpected like "Black Butler"

He's definitely the person who introduces Nico to anime and such... The whole thing just sort of confuses Nico but he likes a couple of them, "Death Note" and some other psychological or horror type stuff

Definitely has some talent when it comes to hair styling, lots of people at camp are always going to him for haircuts and styles so he starts charging $2 or something for it and basically has a summer job at camp

He lives in the New York area year round (honestly, he probably goes home on the weekends sometimes from summer camp and goes to camp for the weekends sometimes in the school year)

Because of how close he is to camp other people in the area will often call him to do their hair and makeup for homecoming/prom/etc and he always agrees unless he's visiting family in Italy or he's touring with his dad

Likes to chill with Austin at the infirmary, partially to hang out but also probably because that's one of the few places in camp that has air conditioning

Will is always getting after him for sitting on the counters, something about it being unsanitary but they don't think it should matter as long as they're not in any of the operating rooms

Austin likes him too much to tell him no but yeah it's not sanitary, but to Austin the choice is a sanitary counter or a happy and comfortable boyfriend... He's picking happy boyfriend

Also Mitchell is very supportive of Austin's music career and always trying to convince Austin to let them use tracks of his music on the runways at their dad's shows

But Austin always says no because he wants to "make it big on his own" which Mitchell thinks is a bit silly but if it's what Austin wants he'll support it

Mitchell is super into camp's drama, they don't do anything with the information or all the secrets they just like knowing all of it

If you ask them to keep a secret they absolutely will

But that embarrassing story about you that went around camp five years ago that you lowkey wish everyone would just stop talking about, he's the one that keeps restarting the cycle

He babbles to Nico all the time about all the ongoings of camp because Nico is also good at keeping his mouth shut, but Nico doesn't care about the drama for the same reasons though (Nico: "Hold on, back up, you said Drew knows Sadie Kane? Interesting..." Mitchell:"okay Mr. Ominous, and also yeah, I did say that, so anyhow... ")

Very artistic person in general, he can probably play the piano okay, he's no professional and no Apollo kid but he can play some songs, and they have enough practice to learn new songs on their own!!

Definitely was voted by camp to have the worst taste in music though

Says his favorite movie is probably "Bring It On" or "Heathers" of something similar, but his actual favorite film is one of those cliche silent black and white ones that's only available in French

They definitely did dance for a few years growing up, has a ballet, tap, and hip hope background to work with but he left it behind when we was 13 or so but eventually they start to get back into hip hop and keep up with various types and lessons and places through their 20s

He's always the person to start groupchats

They think they're fun but they rarely take off without prompting from him

Also often times plays matchmaker for people ("they would be a cute couple wouldn't they? I don't know though, does she like girls? I think so?")

Those are just some ideas off the top of my head, hopefully you enjoy!

[cabin13cappuccino]

You are so right for this!!! Especially since Hades is in absent/dickhead father mode through BotL, The Sword of Hades, and TLO: he offers Nico no refuge when he runs from camp (he is literally homeless living on the banks of the Styx/in the Labyrinth) and he's never satisfied with Nico when he does give him a second thought; he lets his wife pick on his kid (turning him into a dandelion), he's constantly comparing Nico to the child Bianca could have been, and he manipulates him for his own gain. He has to find a way to gain his father's approval in order to be worthy of a home.

Then comes along a figure (Minos) who has worked in a position of power in the Underworld for millennia, who isn't dismissive or fearful of Nico, and who offers him guidance and a chance to get back the most important person in his life. Of COURSE Nico is going to jump head-first into following the only soul who has appeared to care about him. (Not that Percy didn't, but he was thirteen years old at the time with a potentially life-ending prophecy hanging over his head. Kid had no business being responsible for a grieving ten/eleven year old even though he wanted to be.) No parental support along with no other support network made Nico SO vulnerable to grooming.

The after effects on Nico of breaking out of that toxic dynamic aren't discussed/explored nearly enough imo, but I think one of the things Rick does quite well with this is characterizing Nico as incredibly closed off from other people going forward (at least until he starts to open up in HoH + BoO). Even as early as TLO, he shuts Percy out when he asks about leads on Nico's mom- and yes, that's complicated by the deal Hades cut with his son and Nico's crush on Percy, but the guy he likes is showing genuine interest in his life and Nico's response is just "NOPE can't let him in" because the last person who supposedly selflessly cared about Nico was doing it all for their own gain.

The lines about the lessons Nico learned about ghosts from Minos in BoO hits with a different sort of gut-punch from this angle:

"After his experience with Minos, Nico realized most specters held only as much power as you allowed them to have. They pried into your mind, using fear or longing or anger to influence you." (Chapter 14)

"Nico knew something about ghosts. Letting them get inside your head was dangerous. He wanted to help Reyna, but since his own strategy was to deal with his problems alone, spurning anyone who tried to get close, he couldn’t exactly criticize Reyna for doing the same thing." (Chapter 29) (bold emphasis is mine)

Nico's self-isolation has been a means of protecting himself from being manipulated further due to the grooming Minos put him through, which is honestly more tragic than it gets credit for.

does anyone wanna talk about the grooming metaphor between nico and king minos or should i continue screaming into the void