#sorry this is still a kids cartoon and i dont wanna be too serious about it because again. not meant to be deep dive worthy. im done now

[otacringe]

so normal about flapjack s1 e17 (lying)

[nexyra]

James Ironwood, for character ask? 👀

Aaaa thank you so much for the ask ♡ More rambling incoming !! Sorry for the wait btw, I've been both pretty busy and tired ;;

If you hate James Ironwood and don't wanna hear one good thing about him tap out now please ღ

My fav ship(s) for the character

I am not a super big shipper when it comes to James, but there are still some I like more than others soo here goes :

I think Ironwitch is a pretty good one. It's not necessarily a ship I'd search content for but I think these two would work well together ! Glynda is stern and honest and a no-nonsense kind of woman. She has the strenght to stand up to James when he slips or gets too stubborn when faced with the high stakes. At the same time, we've been shown that she cares for him and she knows he's only trying to do what's best for people. She has faith in him but also the ability to stand at his side as an equal. She seems to be the more steadfast of Ozpin's circle : loyal, you know you can trust her, and she will not crumble. This is the kind of personnality that I think James both admire and feel safe with. And the other way around, I think James is a good match for Glynda too. On a day to day basis, he's serious enough to not annoy here, but he's also a softie in some aspects and that's a nice combination to smooth out Glynda's edges.

Ironqrow is a completely different dynamic. The "we're annoying each other" dynamic is not one I'm particularly interested in usually xD But these two certainly had strong & interesting moments so it's a pretty valid ship !! Despite how they might butt heads because of the difference in their upbringing they (prior to V8) clearly trusted each other with their life. Even if Qrow jokes about shooting himself if he had to be one of James' man, when everything goes to shit there is no doubt in his mind that James wasn't responsible. Similarly, while James talks of shooting Qrow for his misbehaviour, when push comes to shove and we meet a tired Ironwood, run ragged by the pressure he's under... the only thing he does is hug him and reiterates how glad he is to see him. So again, they clearly have a lot of faith and trust in the other, and that's solid ground for a relationship.

My least favorite ship(s) for the character

Same spiel as always, shipping kids and adults is a big no from me; so any ships between Ironwood and RWBYJNOR can qualify here. That said, among the less uncomfortable ones, here are those I don't really like

This one is again because I love their relationship but platonically only, I'm talking of Winter Soldier. The reading I like best is not that Ironwood is Winter's Jacques 2.0, nor that he groomed her; but that he was an important father figure in her life. Protective and caring, who tried to help her escape with what he knew. I don't see James recruiting Winter as a way to gain a strong ally. But rather that Winter wanted to detach herself from her family name, and make something worthwhile of herself all on her own. And that the military is what Ironwood knows and understand, so naturally it's a career he'd see as a good path. Just like Winter then proposed it to Weiss. I like to think they care about each other a LOT and they're their own tight family in between the lines, even if professionalism might throw a wrench into it. For short I love them together but not romantically please =)

I don't know if there's a ship name for this, but Salem x James Ironwood would be a big nope from me too... In general, let's just assume I ship Salem with nobody because abuse.

My fav & least fav platonic relationship(s) for the character

Fav platonic relationship would be (have been because we dont talk about V8?) with Winter. Fooor the reasons I've explained above I suppose x) I (again) love the trust they had in one another and the quiet support.

There was also his relationship with Oscar that I really liked during V7, although it has been soured a bit by the (valid) reading from some people that Ironwood sought out Ozpin a lot through Oscar, and given his identity issues it is not ground for a greatly healthy relationship. Their interactions were still very intersting though ♡ I consider Oscar to be the kid who went at trying to appease James' fear or make him reconsider his decisions the best way. There was true understanding and hope for a working relationship here. I do feel that Oscar put in more work than James however (emotionally) and I wish there had been pay-back instead of a gunshot.

For my least fav relationship ? Probably Robyn or Watts ? Robyn was always very antagonistic toward Ironwood since their priorities are so different. And I overall just don't really like her after V7 so there are very few relationships with her I'm interested in (the exception is her ship with Fiona I think it's cute). Meanwhile, Watts is just a petty asshole hell bent on ruining Ironwood because he didn't pick his project. I'm not very interested in hate relationships, and since theirs wasn't deeply explored anyway, it's even more the case here. Their fight was great though, one of my favorite RWBY fights !

My favorite thing about the character

Well this was completely proven wrong by V8 buuut as of V7 I liked that he was a deconstruction of the military general (dictator) trope. Sooo you can guess how i feel about V8 X) In general among RWBY, several of my fav are fav BECAUSE they look like one trope but also have key differences that from the get go make the character stray away from said trope. For example I'm not a fan of the princess tsundere archetype at all, but I loooved Weiss in V1 BECAUSE she was extra-willing to listen and change her mind, and you could very easily tell that it was her upbringing speaking more than herself in most occasions.

Similarly, I wasn't a big fan of Ironwood before V7. I didn't hate him you know and he wasn't lower than most characters in my Tier list but I also didn't particularly care. But you know what ? I've aaaalways had a really soft spot for the "angsty angry traumatized teen". And RWBY made the mistake of extending that soft spot to "tired adults trying their best" (only to repeatedly beat them up/make them villains after making me care about them but what can you do uh)

Soo in general, I loved that Ironwood was trying so hard. I loved that he was tired and in over his head but learning and listening and trying to do good and be better despite his fears. I liked that he told his entourage about Salem and was loyal. I liked that he cared about helping the people above his own image and the way people perceived him. I liked that you could tell this was a terrible situation all around, and his decisions WERE questionnable but we could SEE that he meant WELL and was genuinely trying so hard despite how scared and tired he was.

My biggest criticism for the character

Well this won't be a surprise but in general I just wished he had stayed a morally grey character we were allowed to feel for instead of a cartoon black villain. I didn't need James to be THE Hero or anything like this despite some accusations levelled at those who like him. Him becoming one of RWBY's antagonist is honestly fine by me ! It is interesting. But I'd have preferred they kept him ambiguous and trying in his own way. (And smart because V8 Ironwood was dumb af)

I can be a tad overprotective of his character since he's just... so despised, so I think that I have inadvertently distanced myself from any of his flaws... somehow like "people are already yelling all of them so I don't need to add to this shit show" you know ? skjfkd But I KNOW he has them and it would still have been good to develop his flaws, just... not like that

But yea I'd have liked it if V8 Ironwood DID diverge from RWBYJNORQ and became an antagonist but not an iredeemable villain. LIKE,, we redeemed Hazel and Emerald and IRONWOOD is where the writers draw the line by saying "nope this one is rotten" ?? What ?

When was their writing at the peak according to me (ex : best season)

V7 definitely ! Ironwood carried V7 so hard haha. His character was fleshed out and given nuance and made to struggle and evolve and I loved him in that volume.

A song I think fits them & why

Hunger • Monsters & Men Human • Rag'n'Bone Man Way down we go • Kaleo Beekeeper • Keaton Henson Thistle and weeds • Mumford and Sons Castle of Glass • Linkin Park It's all so incredibly loud • Glass Animals

A headcanon to make up about them

His metal parts impact his metabolism so Ironwood is terrible at holding his alcohool and very little manages to knock him out. He's a workaholic. His low tolerence for alcohool is a great tool whn friends need to put him to sleep.

His joints crack and hurt in the cold, his metal parts as well and they are an hassle in the sand. James like to keep his room temperature warmer than the average atlasian because of this, otherwise he has to spend 30 min every morning simply unwiding muscles to move around efficiently.

He's not a good singer but has a nice low voice for telling stories. If he had kids, he'd probably avoid lullabies but compensate with bedtimes stories.

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

As always, I'm kind of reflecting along the way as I write this, and one thing I'm thinking right now is... Doesn't it take away from the atlas arc message ITSELF to just pile up so many "standard bad guy" stuff on Ironwood ? Like, I wanna ask... why do we hate him ? Is he an antagonist because he lets fear get the best of him ? Because he's a classist who doesn't care about Mantle like some fans argue ? Because he's too stubborn and wants to be THE hero ? Because he doesn't listen to others ? Because he abandonned Mantle ? Because he kills peopke left and right ? Because he wanted to bomb a city ? I think you might see where I'm going with this : his status as villain is kind of messy. V8 just kept piling-up flaws and villainous actions onto Ironwood with no concern for whether this was a lenght he would go to (using the certainty that he would go to any lenghts to enact his plans), ,or whether these were one of the initial flaws/failings that led to his "fall" as an antagonist. What lesson is Ironwood supposed to learn ? Personally the very first time I yelled at my screen "No ! Why would the writers choose that ?" is when Ironwood shot Oscar. When answering criticism against medias, many people tend to look at it only through the lense of "well it makes sense in universe" or as if there were no other ways for the story to devolve. But at the end of the way, everything in a story is a choice from the writer even if it is influenced by the characters' personnalities. If I took the scene where Ironwood shoots Oscar, someone might tell me "he's crippled by his PTSD, he COULD do this." Maybe, that's a reading I can somewhat understand at least. But the writers have the power to NOT put his character in such a position. When I saw the wreck that was V7 finale, I ranted to my bestfriend about it and at no point did i say "why did Ironwood do that", I said "why did the writers make him shoot Oscar, the only point narratively would be to make irredeemable" Aaaand that's what they went for and I obviously didn't care for it. So if I had to rewrite it; I would have kept Ironwood's "mistakes" more focused. If he's wrong because he wants to abandon Mantle, because he's (understandably) scared and doesn't want to take risks; then stay focused on that. It's what makes RWBY leave, and out of all his V8 actions that's really the only thing RWBY needed to tell the whole world he wasn't an ally anymore apparently. - Don't make him shoot Oscar point blank, instead Oscar can simply fall because he flinches away from Ironwood's outburst; and a distraught/guilty Ironwood can decide that he doesn't have the time or capacity to help because of the tense situation. (Killing and not saving someone don't hold the same moral weight at all). - Don't make him kill people left and right or bomb cities, maintain the flaw of Ironwood struggling with his PTSD and his fear and not being able to take risks. - Don't paint him as a black villain, and eventually write V8 in such a way that RWBYJNORQ show taking risks might lead to a bigger victory, which was the volume's theme anyway. For example, following Oscar's destruction of the whale, a growth can occur that would bring back together the two anti-Salem factions : Oscar's risk put Atlas out of harm's way, which leads to Ironwood seeing that maybe there WAS a way to save Mantle as well as Atlas despite Salem's presence and he might have jumped the gun too quickly because of his fears. I'm not sure, I haven't thought about this extensively honestly but I hope you see what I mean. I think it would have been more focused & more in-character to focus Ironwood's failings on his fear; and the fact that he cares for the people and the greater good sometimes at the cost of the individuals. The idea that by sacrificing individuals too much you forget the people you're fighting for in the first place, could have been interesting to dig deeper into. Keep to the idea that Ironwood is somewhat disensitized to the individuals suffering for the sake of the greater good, instead of making him just

callous & uncaring.

My guess for their MBTI/Enneagram

I think pre-V8 Ironwood was an unconventionnal ENFJ. Aka, the type of character no one would type ENFJ because they go by stereotypes and Fe stereotypes are just enneagram 2 everywhere (aka nice, kind, helpful) whereas Ironwood has an enneagram tritype very common among xxTJs so that's what he looks/behaves like, but the way he thinks (what's best for the people, ethical values derived from an Atlasian upbringing) align more with Fe cognitively I think I'm going with ENFJ 6w5 1w2 3w4

Starting from V8 though, Ironwood veered clearly into ENTJ territory (types aren't supposed to change but I wouldn't say RWBY is the most consistent media when it comes to characters' personnalities)

One aspect that I think would be nice to delve deeper into ?

I understand why they didn't care to, but it'd have been interesting to get a few backstory hints for Ironwood. How did he lose half his body ? How did Oz recruit him ? Or some pieces about his upbringing ?

[monotype-on-phantom]

i didnt want to say this before but man.. Danny kind of.. sucks, at least in the heart of canon. i get that he's young and learns "Those Valuable Lessons" and but people dont acknowledge most of this douchebag's shitty antics cause he's a cute boy or whatever. although Danny has a very excellent premise for a character, he is sincere sometimes, but overall its not executed well. he falls into too many awful high school tropes

i guess im glad people are making use of his character premise by reading too closely than the show intended, or by making content of their own interpretations. but we cant ignore that he is quite a goddamned piece of hell shit who i fucking hate in the real show sometimes. i feel there’s just too much emphasis on a character and show that wasn’t well crafted and well managed to begin with. its kinda sad when all the hate is somehow directed towards other characters like Sam.

it feels like most people are praising him and the overall show for what they imagine it to be instead of what it actually is. srsly this awful goddamned fuckboy sells stuff garage lab items he aint supposed to just to buy some fucking clothes??? uses ghost powers to spy girls in their locker room?? he fuckin destroys ghost writer’s writing and then doesnt feel sorry about it just cause it’s christmas-related and he’s so pissy about it.

so.. yeah. i dont get why people think he’s literal kid Jesus and always wants to protect this little fucker. he puts himself in alot of mess. the “D” on his suit stands for “dick”, bc that’s what he is.  i want to beat him up sometimes

Okay.

Normally, I delete all character hate on sight, because the point of my blog is to focus on the show’s strengths and how the weaknesses could’ve been done better. I get critical sometimes, but I like focusing on a characters’ strengths rather than their poor writing and garbage like that.

This was so long, detailed, and harsh that it’s really hard to ignore. Maybe I should. Stick to my guns and not let some anonymous rant change how I work. You came to me, though, so if you want to debate this, then alright. I’ll bite.

First off, who in the fandom is portraying Danny as a kid Jesus? Maybe it’s just the circles I’m familiar with, but one of the most reblogged posts that pops up in my notifications is one with a ton of additions arguing why Danny totally deserves to suffer. The majority of the fandom loves tormenting this kid. Even those that do say he needs to be protected never claim he has no flaws. Far from it. They just acknowledge he has it hard for a kid and he deserves a break sometimes.

Second, have you ever…met a 14 year old? As someone who spent most of his career life working with kids and who is the oldest of 5 (with one brother who’s turning 14 this November), lemme tell you that the main trio are saints for their age.

People talk about the terrible twos, but 14 year olds are so much worse. I’m not slamming them, because it makes sense. They’re in a tough transition period between childhood and adulthood. Adults tell them to act more mature, but refuse to acknowledge their voices in serious situations. Middle school and high school are cutthroat places, and one mistake can ruin the entirety of the four-six years you spend there. They’re pressured to get good grades or they’ll fail, they have to be part of the cool crowd or they’ll fail, and people are more likely to blame them for whatever goes wrong in their lives than anything that goes on around them.

Doesn’t change the fact that they can be little demons sometimes. With all the hormones and drama, young teenagers can be really emotional and make problems bigger than they seem. They can be harsh and judgmental, because that’s the environment they’re being exposed to. They need guidance, but they don’t want it. They argue with adults and to some, it seems like they want to make their own lives miserable. They can be tough to work with unless you’re willing to take them as seriously as they take themselves, and most people don’t want to bother.

There are shitty things Danny does in canon, but that’s true for literally every fourteen year old. And heck, are you telling me you didn’t do some ridiculously stupid stuff at that age? I actually stole money from my folks to buy something I wanted. My group of friends frequently set stuff on fire in their backyards. And fuck, nobody can prove Danny was spying on girls in the locker room. While I think the scene is shit and refuse to accept it as canon, all we see is Danny coming out of the locker room. He could’ve been just looking to see what it was like in there. Nothing says there were actually girls in there. But I’m so sick of talking about that shit scene, so I’m gonna leave it at that.

Danny has flaws. He can be selfish and petty and inconsiderate. But really? You wanna beat him up for that?

Are you forgetting that he canonically already does get beaten up every single episode? Whether it’s by ghosts, bullies, his own goddam parents, or whatever, getting beat up is something he’s familiar with.

The reason some fans cut him some slack is because, hey, yeah. He is a kid, and you know what? He’s entitled to be a dick sometimes. He loses sleep every night, almost dies on a daily basis, has his dreams ripped away from him often, and is picked on at school. Despite all of that, he still fights ghosts to keep his town safe, and he’s under no obligation to do that. He saves lives, even when people hate him for it. He puts himself in danger, even for those who are cruel to him. He tries to use his powers for the right reason more often than not, and he’ll take the high road against his bully because he feels like he shouldn’t stoop to his level.

We acknowledge that canon can be shit. We acknowledge that sometimes, Danny’s writing makes him out to be a dick. At the “heart of canon,” though, as you so eloquently put it, he’s the kid who risked his life for a little girl he barely knew that nobody else would miss. He’s the one who saves the lives of his own bully, the teacher who used to be so hard on him, and the parents he fully believes would cut him open if they knew what he was. He’s the one who could so easily be Vlad, but instead he tries his best to be a hero.

You’re under no obligation to like him, and you don’t have to ignore the shitty parts of canon like some of us do. I do it just because I enjoy thinking about what the show could’ve been, not what it was. You don’t have to do that, though.

But really, are you going to march into your nearest high school and beat the shit out of the first kid you see messing up? Seriously? You honestly think that the mistakes Danny makes outweigh the good he’s constantly trying to do enough that he deserves that? Even when he already gets beat up in every single episode already?

Well, fine. That’s your pessimistic opinion. It’s not fact, though. How many cartoons do you watch? You gonna beat up Timmy Turner and Jimmy Neutron, too? They can be right assholes. What about Jake Long? He’s a shallow, obnoxious, irresponsible kid a lot of the time. Sure, he’s just 13, but why should we show mercy to kids who mess up? Serena/Usagi from Sailor Moon? Yeah, let’s ignore all the people defending her and just focus on the fact that the show makes her a dumb kid who doesn’t have enough backbone to immediately become the savior of the galaxy. Come to think of it, where’s your rant about Dash Baxter? Or is he not popular enough for you to rag on?

Perfect characters aren’t the ones who are the most upstanding. They’re the ones who are realistic and flawed. So Danny sells his parents stuff. So he sneaked into the girls’ locker room. So he took out his anger on an innocent person.

I’m not saying any of those things weren’t wrong, what I’m saying is that kids make fucking mistakes. And sometimes, they’re huge ones. Sometimes, kids get curious and break into a house. Sometimes they get hungry at the store and shoplift. Sometimes they lie and cheat and make fun of each other. Sometimes they can be perverted little leaches.

So fucking what? We’ve all been there. We all need to learn and grow.

And seriously, if you’re going to be one of those people who gives Sam a break, don’t turn around and start criticizing Danny for the same shitty writing he sometimes gets. That hypocrisy is exactly why I so adamantly defend Sam.

I don’t know what you wanted to accomplish with these asks. Maybe you just wanted to vent. Maybe you were looking to stir up drama. Maybe you don’t know what you wanted and you just sent these asks randomly without any real reason.

Regardless of what you think, I’m still gonna enjoy my fucking fictional character, even if I don’t always agree with how he’s written. I relate to him, his struggles, and even his mistakes. You have fun ripping on characters people like because you don’t think they should be allowed to make mistakes, but let the rest of us have our fun, too. You’re not helping anyone with this, so maybe just fuck off, m’kay?

Being stupidly nice is kind of my thing, but I’m tired of putting up with this self righteous crap. Let characters fuck up. Let fans rewrite things they don’t like. Let people enjoy their fucking cartoon, because they aren’t hurting anyone. I’ve yet to find a single phan who considers the DP cartoon to be completely canon anyway. They enjoy it for the fan content or the few really spot on episodes. We’re already aware that there’s shitty stuff in there, and we don’t need you to tell us.

If I ever get any asks like this that rip on characters for stupid, petty reasons again, I’m deleting them on sight. That was my initial plan anyway, but I really needed to say my piece here.

Tumblr, maybe stop being such judgmental pieces of fucking shit, okay? You’ll accomplish nothing good by being so harsh toward anything that doesn’t fit your standard of “perfect.”

[sn0tcl0wn]

also honestly maybe disney just wanted to do a fun crime romp about a crazy person and realized the only character who would truly be able to pull that off was cruella. like why does everyone think her backstory was meant to be a tear jerker or the movie was meant to be deep. it was about crime, fashion, and revenge. very simple and very interesting as concepts. wether you think it landed is your own opinion but i don't think this was meant to absolve her of anything because she was still a rude bitch with a broken moral compass and mental health that was shaky at best in the beginning and actively snapping at the end. she didnt even fully snap. that's gonna happen in the next movie. like if anything is gonna tell us why she wanted to kill dogs when she was older it's gonna be the sequel because, unlike maleficent, this was the first part to a full on retelling that will span multiple movies, not a prequel in the first third and then mostly canon accurate retelling for the rest.

this isnt even the same cruella. it's like getting mad that ouat cruella had magic. this isnt the same version and it's clearly taking notes from the recent rise of unhinged woman movies and how that resonates with people. and again who the fuck else is gonna be a better vessel for that kind of plot? no other iconic disney villain could do it. none of them could be so eccentric and out of their mind as her. and in all actuality she is way more redeemable compared to most disney villains.

yall just value dogs over humans so you think she's the worst when madam medusa and sykes and the evil fucking queen all exist. even SCAR was more evil than cruella. cruella was just nuts and consumed by fashion and her need for constant control and glamor. like i was never as scared of or hateful towards cruella as a child the way i was the characters who actually abused and tried to kill literal children (or their nephew cubs because, again, fucking scar). no i don't condone the skinning of a hundred puppies, that is truly horrific, but i also dont think she's as bad as yall are making her out to be when if this was a story about almost any other villain it would be trying to come up with reasons why they felt validated in the abuse and attempted murder of children or even just straight up fascism, racism, or misogyny in some cases.

like maleficent, cruella de vil was tame in comparison to most of the other villains and i really cannot think of too many other villains they could make movies about and not a single one would have been able to have a movie like her's without feeling out of place. like yeah ursula would be more compelling in many ways but it wouldn't have the same vibe or soundtrack and i think they just wanted to do a rock n roll period piece crime movie, saw an opportunity for some badass costumes and visuals, and went with it. and i feel like a lot of people are missing the point because maleficent was an honest narrator with a legitimately tragic story and deals with things like motherhood and grief while cruella is somewhat unreliable and has a sad backstory but is mostly just fuckin bonkers and grows to revel in it. you saw how serious the other one took itself and was supposed to be and said "clearly all the disney villain movies are like this" and then got mad when the one that would OBVIOUSLY be the most silly and wacked out was exactly that. some people went in expecting it to be like joker ffs (which it was but joker wasn't all that original either and in many ways cruella was like several other movies with similar plotlines, it's almost like...genre tropes and cliches exist).

i'm not sorry for ranting about this because i see your stupid fucking jokes all the time to a point where parts of the movie was spoiled for me because yall couldnt contain yourselves so i dont know why i should feel the need to keep my mouth shut. especially when most of you mfs like various forms of trash media too and only get away with it cause it's popular and because after all the shitty ones these past few years live action disney movies are easy targets. im not offended like the jokes were funny the first few times but it's been weeks now and i wouldn't be so annoyed if people actually watched it in good faith. like do any of you watch anything that isn't a cartoon or podcast with gay characters in good faith or do you just go about your lives getting mad over movies for tween-teenaged art kids who get bullied and want an outlet that isn't an r rated movie with violence or realistic drama? because at the end of the day THAT is the main demographic, not you, not even me.

it is a children's movie and yall are asking for depth because "kids deserve better" as if there arent soooo many other kids movies that have deep meanings and teach important lessons. like soul literally exists, just go watch that. oh right yall just wanna complain about disney movies as if the creators and stories are the same as the corporation that's putting them out is if half the shit you like isnt also disney owned. because at the end of the day it isnt even about the movies it's because you think blindly hating anything with the disney label is activism.