#sul’dam

[mashithamel]

I know Egwene wants to kill Renna, and I kinda want her to, but what I really want is Nynaeve to deliver justice instead. It’s really what Renna deserves.

[starkdirewolflove]

Egwene’s scenes from Daes Dae’mar

Egwene has some really interesting scenes in this episode even though it’s only for a few minutes and she says everything without needing words but her line at the end is so brilliant and well delivered.

Her dynamic with Renna is almost like being trapped in an abusive marriage. Last week Renna said some really possessive things like: “You’ll never leave me. Nothing exists for you outside this room.” Then after she beat Egwene and finally got her to pour the water she calls her a good girl (like a pet) and walks out.

Now we see Egwene in full Damane dress from the hair to the golden gag in her mouth and Renna showing her off like a trophy wife but with the threat that if Egwene embarrasses her she’ll regret it. Again with the possessive phrases by praising her power and claiming ownership “every Sul’dam in Falme will see you shine and know that you are mine.” Her cell in the kennels now has a bed, candles and a clothes rack as a reward for good behaviour.

Then later we see Renna trying to win Egwene round to her way of thinking with the weirdly intimate touching when she washes Egwene’s hands and face with a sponge. Renna speaks like she’s explaining something so simple that the Seanchan are heroes that are trying to unite the world for The Last Battle and defeat the Dark One so Egwene doesn’t need to fight her because they’re on the same side. Egwene’s defiance and rage is so palpable the whole way through this episode especially when we see her doing the Two Rivers braid in her hair after she had wore it loose the whole time she was at the white tower, this is her way of reclaiming her identity and knowing she’s not alone.

When she finally speaks it’s in the same soft tone Renna was using and probably the first time she calls the Sul’dam by her name, Renna leans in all hopeful “yes Egwene?” then she delivers the best line “I will kill you.” And then Renna storms out like a spurned lover that thought her manipulation was working.

[theoraclej]

my opinion on the damane collars… well, in my mind’s eye i of course like many of you envisioned them as thick silver bands around the necks of damane, with the leash extending to the sul’dam’s wrist. inextricably linked, because the seanchan do not know how to do an unlinked a’dam. either nynaeve or elayne figured out that the actual leash doesn’t really have to exist, but i’m betting on nynaeve because she had to hide the leash from someone in desperation. no, it was nynaeve, in tel’aran’rhiod, and rand. she had to hide something from rand. it’s just been a very long time since i’ve read the books!

but in the show we have the damane and sul’dam separate, with a high collar and yoke-type of thing over the upper torso for damane and a big bracer for the sul’dam. at first, i didn’t like it. when i think seanchan, i think leashes. so that’s what i expected. visibly linked pairs, and nothing else would do.

after seeing 2x05 Damane, the episode, i feel slightly different about it. i actually liked the way the collar, the a’dam, worked itself into a larger piece of equipment. if you look closely, there’s a little bit of steampunk and a little bit of high tech and a little bit of the one power and i thought it all worked so well, you could imagine and this after i had groused so about my initial perception of the show’s a’dam. and believe me, i groused. i was a total grumpy gus over it. it wasn’t silver, it wasn’t the same, well… i got over that after seeing how the contraption built itself out over egwene. i think it has an appropriate ter’angreal appearance and function, i think it is appropriately “foreign” to any randland based Aes Sedai or associated folks, and i think it is as equally horrific and i shudder for what is to come for our wondergirl come thursday. 😭

[moghedien]

As far as I’m concerned, it’s not a matter of if Moghedien escapes the Seanchan post-series, it’s a matter of how long its takes her to convince them that not returning would cause a diplomatic incident and if they don’t trust her they should turn her into the Aes Sedai but actually only one specific Aes Sedai and if it’s any other or they take too long she’s going to start being psychosexual at the sul’dam again

[phantasieandmirare]

It’s been five days and I still can’t get the last episode out of my head

[wheelwheelwheel]

Here’s a good Instagram post about the OTHER thing the damane mouthpieces look like

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Grace Sedai (@the22ndlevel)

[maedhros]

the damane sul’dam arc is just the mord’sith but honestly scarier and so I am here not surprised that this is now my Roman Empire moment

Also the Renna character is soooooooooo……. Much More than Denna also listen. Listen. I love Denna but this is better objectively to me. Anyway for me Renna lives to atone bc really she is just a product of her upbringing. Right. Ha ha. Right guys

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

Y’all I’m still not over Egwene’s ta’veren moment on the tower. She needed a way to get free and the tower gets hit and knocks out the sul’dam. She needed help and everyone felt her pull on the pattern and showed up on the tower. I love that egwene is Ta’veren in the show, I love that choice SO MUCH!!!!!! And they did her arc so fucking well this season!!!!!!

AND the change to fucking kill Renna 20 million/10 #EgweneIsAlwaysRight

[yea-verity]

I’ve seen a couple people questioning how Egwene was able to put the collar on Renna with damane not being able to pick up anything they think of as a weapon.

But like . . . that’s why it’s so great that she could! Not only is she overcoming physical pain, she is doing mental cartwheels to be able to pick up the a’dam! Or maybe she’s using sul’dam logic that an a’dam is what’s best for a damane, and therefore it isn’t a weapon. Either way, I see no plot holes here, just Egwene using not just her strength in the power but also her intelligence (arguably one of the most important parts of her character) to trap Renna and get her revenge.

[mass-convergence]

Sometimes I get stuck in that trope where like Healers are viewed as kind of the weaklings of the group? Like they heal … they give life.

And then I watch Wheel of Time and had to look away from the screen and cringe as I see Ryma twist a sul’dam like a goddamn pretzel. And then I realize “oh yeah … they probably have a very in-depth understanding of human anatomy and know about a thousand ways to kill you slowly and painfully”

Healers are fucking terrifying.

[cha-faile]

Have seen a few show-onlies say that book readers told them that Egwene's damane training was fade to black in the books. um??? did we read the same books??

Excerpts from The Great Hunt below the cut...

"Balling her fist tightly, Egwene hit the woman as hard as she could, right in her eye—and staggered and fell to her knees herself, head ringing. It felt as if a large man had struck her in the face."

-

“The very first thing you must learn,” Renna said, “is to do exactly as you are told, and without delay.” Egwene gasped. Suddenly her skin burned and prickled as if she had rolled in stinging nettles, from the soles of her feet to her scalp. She tossed her head as the burning sensation increased. “Many sul’dam,” Renna went on in that almost friendly tone, “do not believe damane should be allowed names, or at least only names they are given. But I am the one who took you, so I will be in charge of your training, and I will allow you to keep your own name. If you do not displease me too far. I am mildly upset with you now. Do you really wish to keep on until I am angry?” Quivering, Egwene gritted her teeth. Her nails dug into her palms with the effort of not scratching wildly. Idiot! It’s only your name. “Egwene,” she managed to get out. “I am Egwene al’Vere.” Instantly the burning itch was gone. She let out a long, unsteady breath. “Egwene,” Renna said. “That is a good name.” And to Egwene’s horror, Renna patted her on the head as she would a dog.

-

“No!” Egwene shouted. She heard Renna curse softly, and suddenly the burning itch covered her skin again, worse than before, but she did not stop. “Please! High Lady, please! She is my friend!” Pain such as she had never known wracked her through the burning. Every muscle knotted and cramped; she pitched on her face in the dirt, mewling, but she could still see Elbar’s heavy, curved blade come free of its sheath, see him raise it with both hands. “Please! Oh, Min!” Abruptly, the pain was gone as if it had never been; only the memory remained.

-

Egwene cried out as a switch seemed to lash across her back, then another across her leg, her arm. From every direction they seemed to come; she knew there was nothing to block, but she could not help throwing her arms about as if to stop the blows. She bit her lip to stifle her moans, but tears still rolled down her cheeks. Bela whinnied and danced, but Renna’s grip on the silver leash kept her from carrying Egwene away. None of the soldiers even looked back. “What are you doing to her?” Min shouted. “Egwene? Stop it!” “You live on sufferance . . . Min, is it?” Renna said mildly. “Let this be a lesson for you as well. So long as you try to interfere, it will not stop.” Min raised a fist, then let it fall. “I won’t interfere. Only, please, stop it. Egwene, I’m sorry.” The unseen blows went on for a few moments more, as if to show Min her intervention had done nothing, then ceased, but Egwene could not stop shuddering. The pain did not go away this time. She pushed back the sleeve of her dress, thinking to see weals; her skin was unmarked, but the feel of them was still there.

-

Suddenly the invisible switches were back, striking at her everywhere. Yelling, she tried to hit Renna, but the sul’dam casually knocked her fist away, and Egwene felt as if Renna had hit her arm with a stick. She dug her heels into Bela’s flanks, but the sul’dam’s grip on the leash nearly pulled her out of her saddle. Frantically she reached for saidar, meaning to hurt Renna enough to make her stop, just the kind of hurt she herself had been given. The sul’dam shook her head wryly; Egwene howled as her own skin was suddenly scalded. Not until she fled from saidar completely did the burn begin to fade, and the unseen blows never ceased or slowed. She tried to shout that she would try, if only Renna would stop, but all she could manage was to scream and writhe. Dimly, she was aware of Min shouting angrily and trying to ride to her side, of Alwhin tearing Min’s reins from her hands, of another sul’dam speaking sharply to her damane, who looked at Min. And then Min was yelling, too, arms flapping as if trying to ward off blows or beat away stinging insects. In her own pain, Min’s seemed distant. Their cries together were enough to make some of the soldiers twist in their saddles. After one look, they laughed and turned back. How sul’dam dealt with damane was no affair of theirs. To Egwene it seemed to go on forever, but at last there was an end. She lay sprawled weakly across the cantle of her saddle, cheeks wet with tears, sobbing into Bela’s mane. The mare whickered uneasily. “It is good that you have spirit,” Renna said calmly. “The best damane are those who have spirit to be shaped and molded.” Egwene squeezed her eyes shut. She wished she could close her ears, too, to shut out Renna’s voice. I have to get away. I have to, but how? Nynaeve, help me. Light, somebody help me. “You will be one of the best,” Renna said in tones of satisfaction. Her hand stroked Egwene’s hair, a mistress soothing her dog.

-

That was one of the properties of the a’dam; if a damane tried to channel without a sul’dam wearing her bracelet, she felt sick, and the more of the Power she channeled, the sicker she became. Lighting a candle beyond the reach of her arm would have made Egwene vomit. Once Renna had ordered her to juggle her tiny balls of light with the bracelet lying on the table. Remembering still made her shudder. Now, the silver leash snaked across the bare floor and up the unpainted wooden wall to where the bracelet hung on a peg. The sight of it hanging there made her jaws clench with fury. A dog leashed so carelessly could have run away. If a damane moved her bracelet as much as a foot from where it had last been touched by a sul’dam. . . . Renna had made her do that, too—had made her carry her own bracelet across the room. Or try to. She was sure it had only been minutes before the sul’dam snapped the bracelet firmly on her own wrist, but to Egwene the screaming and the cramps that had had her writhing on the floor had seemed to go on for hours.

-

“They can’t even help themselves, Min. I only talked to one—her name is Ryma; the sul’dam don’t call her that, but that’s her name; she wanted to make sure I knew it—and she told me there is another. She told me in between bouts of tears. She’s Aes Sedai, and she was crying, Min! She has a collar on her neck, they make her answer to Pura, and she can’t do anything more about it than I can. They captured her when Falme fell. She was crying because she’s beginning to stop fighting against it, because she cannot take being punished anymore. She was crying because she wants to take her own life, and she cannot even do that without permission. Light, I know how she feels!”

-

Egwene took a deep breath and reached for the hilt. A soft quiver ran through the muscles of her arm. As her hand came within a foot of the knife, a cramp suddenly contorted her fingers. Eyes fixed, she tried to force her hand closer. The cramp seized her whole arm, knotting muscles to her shoulder. With a groan, she sank back, rubbing her arm and concentrating her thoughts on not touching the knife. Slowly, the pain began to lessen.

-

Egwene went on dully, as if the other woman had not spoken. “They are training me, Min. The sul’dam and the a’dam are training me. I cannot touch anything I even think of as a weapon. A few weeks ago I considered hitting Renna over the head with that pitcher, and I could not pour wash water for three days. Once I’d thought of it that way, I not only had to stop thinking about hitting her with it, I had to convince myself I would never, under any circumstances, hit her with it before I could touch it again. She knew what had happened, told me what I had to do, and would not let me wash anywhere except with that pitcher and bowl. You are lucky it happened between your visiting days. Renna made sure I spent those days sweating from the time I woke to the time I fell asleep, exhausted. I am trying to fight them, but they are training me as surely as they’re training Pura.” She clapped a hand to her mouth, moaning through her teeth. “Her name is Ryma. I have to remember her name, not the name they’ve put on her. She is Ryma, and she’s Yellow Ajah, and she has fought them as long and as hard as she could. It is no fault of hers that she hasn’t the strength left to fight any longer. I wish I knew who the other sister is that Ryma mentioned. I wish I knew her name. Remember both of us, Min. Ryma, of the Yellow Ajah, and Egwene al’Vere. Not Egwene the damane; Egwene al’Vere of Emond’s Field. Will you do that?”

-

“You have been channeling.” Renna’s voice was deceptively mild; there was a spark of anger in her eyes. “You know that is forbidden except when we are complete.” Egwene wet her lips. “Perhaps I have been too lenient with you. Perhaps you believe that because you are valuable now, you will be allowed license. I think I made a mistake letting you keep your old name. I had a kitten called Tuli when I was a child. From now on, your name is Tuli. You will go now, Min. Your visiting day with Tuli is ended.” Min hesitated only long enough for one anguished look at Egwene before leaving. Nothing Min could say or do would do anything except make matters worse, but Egwene could not help looking longingly at the door as it closed behind her friend. Renna took the chair, frowning at Egwene. “I must punish you severely for this. We will both be called to the Court of the Nine Moons—you for what you can do; I as your sul’dam and trainer—and I will not allow you to disgrace me in the eyes of the Empress. I will stop when you tell me how much you love being damane and how obedient you will be after this. And, Tuli. Make me believe every word.”

-

Outside in the low-ceilinged hallway, Min dug her nails into her palms at the first piercing cry from the room. She took a step toward the door before she could stop herself, and when she did stop, tears sprang up in her eyes. Light help me, all I can do is make it worse. Egwene, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Feeling worse than useless, she picked up her skirts and ran, and Egwene’s screams pursued her. She could not make herself stay, and leaving made her feel a coward. Half blind with weeping, she found herself in the street before she knew it. She had intended to go back to her room, but now she could not do it. She could not stand the thought that Egwene was being hurt while she sat warm and safe under the next roof. Scrubbing the tears from her eyes, she swept her cloak around her shoulders and started down the street. Every time she cleared her eyes, new tears began trickling along her cheeks. She was not accustomed to weeping openly, but then she was not accustomed to feeling so helpless, so useless. She did not know where she was going, only that it had to be as far as she could reach from Egwene’s cries.

-

[Egwene] gave an abrupt squeak. “That’s Seta. How . . . ?” Her voice hardened so that Nynaeve barely recognized it. “I’d like to put her in a pot of boiling water.” Seta had her eyes squeezed shut, and her hands clutched her skirts; she was trembling. “What have they done to you?” Elayne exclaimed. “What could they do to make you want something like that?” Egwene never took her eyes off the Seanchan woman. “I’d like to make her feel it. That’s what she did to me, made me feel like I was neck deep in. . . .” She shuddered. “You do not know what it is like wearing one of these, Elayne. You don’t know what they can do to you. I can never decide whether Seta is worse than Renna, but they’re all hateful.”

-

Suddenly Egwene threw herself against Nynaeve, sobbing raggedly at her breast. “She hurt me, Nynaeve. She hurt me. They all did. They hurt me, and hurt me, until I did what they wanted. I hate them. I hate them for hurting me, and I hate them because I couldn’t stop them from making me do what they wanted.”

[scarletkaoru]

I hope the random unnamed damane who just socked her sul’dam in the face is fine and happy forever because that was iconic

[amemoryofwot]

Elayne and Nynaeve arguing over who the kidnappers were trying to grab is so funny. Like Nynaeve had a passing resemblance to a sul’dam so they WERE after her but Elayne’s like obviously they figured out I’m the Daughter-Heir but HOW? as if she hasn’t been saying she’s the Daughter-Heir out loud

[moghedien]

I want Nynaeve going the FUCK off about how she thinks Sul’dam are disgusting and evil and worse than darkfriends and for us to be standing and applauding her and then like a few seasons later Nynaeve is playing with her new bracelet like “well…”

[jackoshadows]

I keep reading about how the Sul’dam/Damane stuff is more brutal on the show and so there is no way the show is going to do the Mat/Tuon stuff.... when it's pretty much exactly this in the books!

Yes, actually seeing on screen what is done to Egwene (And give Madeleine Madden all the acting awards!) shows us how evil these fuckers are, however, they were just as evil in the books!

This is the Seanchan. This is what they do to channelers. In the books, Egwene was not even allowed to keep her name. They torture, they enslave and treat channelers like animals. This is why they are one of the most hated factions in the books.

Tuon is a terrible person and everything that happens with Mat and Tuon in the books makes him a terrible person - when he knows what was done to Egwene and others like her.

So yes, if we do end up getting Tuon on this show, it's better the show goes in a different direction where Mat and Tuon are concerned. Unless Tuon has entirely different characterization and the show manages to disconnect her from the actions of these slavers. Or they have Mat actually repudiate the actions of the Seanchan.

[toastandjamie]

I just a had A Vision, my desire to put Mat and Tuon in Situations has overcome me once more. So like, hey, I wonder how crazy feral it would be if Suroth got it into her head to overthrow Tuon way earlier and to do so revealed her as a channeler. So that when May does his Aes Sedai rescue mission Tuon is collared as well, and despite all logic he just can’t bring himself to leave her there so he kidnaps her.

We have the now added component of trying to convince Tuon that she doesn’t need to be collared now that she’s having an existential crisis over the Sul’dam Thing. And Mat’s Channeling Issues on full blast. You thought these two could barely navigate their relationship before? Get ready for Mat/Tuon Hard Mode