#the guy who played lsz in cql. did you know that

[monachopsissssss]

boys in skirts

[untamedunrestrained]

Moral of the Story

I was scrolling through the WangXian tag on Tumblr when I came across a post that I eventually scrolled past but it seems to have planted a germ of an idea that I just can’t shake loose and I tried and I tried and then I procrastinated some more for good measure but it didn’t work. So, here I am trying to present my thoughts with some degree of coherency.

The post that was the impetus for this post, talks about LWJ’s punishment after the events at Nightless City just before WWX’s death. That post raises the question of how LWJ could forgive his uncle and brother for a punishment that would have killed a lesser cultivator.

The moment I read the post I disagreed with it but I couldn’t quite put my finger on why but since I have been thinking about it for the past few days, I now know exactly why I disagreed with the post in the first place.

Before we proceed, I would like to make it clear that while what I’m about to say tracks across every canon of MDZS, I’m going to pick the details from the novel verse because it’s more detailed with regards to this particular aspect of the story, and also if you have only watched The Untamed/CQL and not read the novel (albeit only in its translated form) it might be easier to fall into the type of thinking that lead to the previous post in the first place.

Ideally, I should just link to the original post but since I found the post while I was scrolling through Tumblr’s tag for WangXian and initially tried to ignore it completely because I didn’t quite understand why that particular idea was troubling me, I don’t think it would be easy to find it again and since I’m disagreeing with the post I don’t want the author of the post to find this because even when we try to be rational our first response to being disagreed with is hurt or anger and I don’t want anyone to feel that way. These are just my thoughts and you might agree or disagree with them but I feel like I should put them out there since the idea will not leave me alone.

So, let’s get into it.

LWJ is given thirty-three discipline whips for each of the thirty-three GusuLan elders he gravely injured to protect WWX.

When WWX sees LWJ scars in the novel these are his thoughts-

Usually, with only one or two strikes of the discipline whip, it would already be enough of a punishment for the bearer to remember it for their whole life, never to make the same mistake ever again. The amount of scars on this person’s back accumulated thirty at the least. Just what sort of monstrous crime did he commit for him to be whipped so many times? If it really was a monstrous crime, why didn’t they kill him?

As we will later learn LWJ’s punishment is a little more detailed than just whipping he was also made to kneel in front of the “Wall of Discipline” following the whipping.

It’s a barbaric punishment and of course, the ones ordering it are his uncle and his brother who have both been established as characters who truly do love LWJ. So, why? Why is LWJ’s punishment so severe, well there are two reasons for that and I will discuss the lamer one first.

His punishment was severe because by this point we know that LWJ is probably one of the best cultivators of his generation if not the best (I could definitely argue for the latter, I mean this guy can fight Xue Yang wielding his sword with one hand and keep an entire horde of zombies at bay while playing his guqin with the other. And, did I mention this is happening at the same time, he literally managed to fight a horde of zombies and Xue Yang with two different cultivation methods being practised simultaneously and of course, he won but not only that there wasn’t a moment during this entire fight when that wasn’t the expected outcome). So, of course, if you want to really punish this guy the punishment has to be on par with his own physical and spiritual strength, it wouldn’t be much of a punishment he was able to do it without even breaking a sweat. I told you it was a bit lame.

Secondly and more importantly, the punishment should fit the crime. If the crime is particularly grievous, the punishment must be as well, it must be severe and in this particular story, depending on the individual’s spiritual strength a severe enough punishment might be different for different levels of cultivation. So, the real question is did LWJ deserve the punishment and the answer is an unequivocal YES.

LWJ grievously injured thirty-three GusuLan elders who were looking for him specifically so that they could find him before the other clans did because if the other clans did find him first they would kill him. After all, he saved WWX and kept him alive. The same WWX who at the Nightless City declared war on the combined might of the Cultivation World and then proceeded to kill thousands of Cultivators and then when they died he resurrected them to fight their very own comrades, that WWX.

Now, we might all argue he only fought the Cultivators because they killed all the Wen remnants and that only happened because he killed Jin ZiXuan who he technically didn’t kill but he definitely provided the opportunity and the weapon for his death because his ego couldn’t let Jin ZiXun go. At this point, we don’t know that there is another player in the mix but both these fights that ultimately take the lives of Jin ZiXuan and Jiang Yanli respectively were both started by WWX and even if we forget about the inciting event (Jin ZiXuan’s death), WWX still killed thousands of people from all clans. But, we only know these intricacies because the story is told from WWX’s perspective. LWJ doesn’t know this and neither do most of the people in the Cultivation World.

What they do know is that LWJ took WWX after he had killed thousands of cultivators and depleted the remaining Cultivators of their spiritual energy so thoroughly it took them three months to recover enough to mount a second attack. No matter how you spin it WWX is responsible for those deaths and LWJ is responsible for saving an outright murderer and then he further cemented his crimes by fighting thirty-three of his own elders and grievously injuring them in defence of said murderer when it seems like they largely made the journey to protect LWJ's life and his reputation and not with the primary purpose of killing WWX.

So, yes he deserves his punishment and as he himself believes this -

But he (LWJ) said… that he could not say with certainty whether what you (WWX) did was right or wrong, but no matter what, he was willing to be responsible for all of the consequences alongside you.

The reason LWJ could forgive LXC and LQR for his punishment is because he didn’t need to. He understood exactly why he was being punished. At the end of the day, LWJ didn’t actually protect WWX thinking that he might be right, he protected WWX because he was intensely and irrevocably in love with him and he is ready to stand by his love right or wrong.

While these are all very valid points the real reason that post caused this disquiet to appear in me was because it was trying to paint LXC and LQR’s actions in a bad light with the power of hindsight completely forgetting that their actions were relevant in the context they happened in which brought me spiralling back to the story as a whole.

The story firmly tries to tell you that what you see and what you observe might paint a very clear narrative in your eyes but there is always a possibility that the narrative we feel is so immutable can completely change its structure if we were just able to see it in a different light as is beautifully illuminated by this story.

The other thing that we don’t realise is that in this story we aren’t depicted by LWJ or WWX or JC or JL or LSZ or even NHS and JGY for the matter. We are the mob, we are Sect Leader Yao, we are the people who are told stories that paint people in a certain light and then we can’t see them in any other light. In our very upbringing, some prejudices are a staple and we still harbour them and these influence how we interact with the world and more specifically how we judge people and their actions. This story urges us to remember that while things might seem black and white maybe unearthing the reasons behind them might make the story more grey, so the next time you decide to paint a group of people or even a particular person as wholly bad no matter how egregious their actions may seem remember the moral of Mo Dao Zu Shi, remember that there might be more to the story than meets the eye and more importantly remember that something in the future might make a success of today look like a blight on history.

If I have to be more precise, I would say the moral of this story is to be open to the possibility that we might not know the whole story and we might be wrong even when we are a 100% convinced we aren’t.

[agendratum]

me, foolishly: maybe i actually won’t talk much about the novel 

my need to never shut up about my interests: first impressions!!

main first impression - this is really really funny so far

more under the cut cause spoilers and opinions i guess

seriously, so far the novel is really funny with wei wuxian being 5x of a gremlin he already is, which is delightful. what is also delightful, it’s being able to get actually get to hear his thoughts and inner processes, and understand why and what he’s doing, so it really makes the whole mo manor part way less confusing than it was in the live action. also it shows even more how smart this wei wuxian guy is, how much he knows about things and stuff, he is a practitioner and a pretty good teacher too. 

one of the main reasons why i wanted to read the novel was the lore, and oh am i getting all the lore right now. i’m enjoying reading all the night hunt theory and all these descriptions of monsters, these parts are great.

also for a second here i really felt like i was reading sherlock holmes, with wwx, of course, being sherlock, and lsz and ljy being little watsons. adorable

i remember watching the first episode and getting extremely excited about lan wangji showing up even without really knowing who he is. this time i got a similar reaction, but about jiang cheng showing up. i LOVE that the book does this little “uh oh you're in trouble”, letting the reader know that shit is about to go down, but not wwx. i know the that scene is actually really dramatic, scary and emotional tm, but it just made me really happy

it does seem like novel!jc actually tortured people. ah well, we can’t all be perfect i guess

also jiang cheng getting offended at the fact that he isn’t mo xuanyu’s type is hilarious 

now, lan wangji. my biggest concern of all. i like all the scenes where he’s fighting. the descriptions of him playing guqin are majestic. the scenes of him disrespecting jiang cheng, as jc trying to remain as calm as he can be, are great as always. i respect his sence of humor, it’s not exactly the same sence of humor as what he has in cql, but still respectful. i don’t think (so far) that novel!lwj could ever become my favourite character the way cql!lwj did. i think it has something to do with the fact that i relate to depressed gay people who just wanna be tender way more than to whatever sitcom insanity is happening there. 

the VIBE of the reunion is SO FUCKING WILDLY DIFFERENT 

live action wangxian: staring at each other in slowmo, the mix of disbelief and realisation on both of their faces, the uncertainty and fragility of the moment, the need to say so many words and not knowing where to start

novel wangxian: they started at each other not letting go of each other’s hands for like half an hour like the idiots they are. then jiang cheng showed up

live action wwx: *waking up in lwj’s bed, smiling and tearing up a little bit* but did you really believed me back then? 

live action lwj: *staring into the distance, thinking about all the wasted time of their lives* now i do

novel wwx: you’ll NEVER take me alive, i will NOT go back to your LAME ASS STUPID ASS TERRIBLE VIBES cloud recesses, i would rather SWING MYSELF OFF THIS CLIFF 

novel lwj: get your fucking ass through the gate or so HELP ME GOD

live action wwx, in the cold springs after noticing lwj’s scars: *very concerned* tell me what happened, lan zhan, you have to tell me

live action lwj: *looking away, not sure what to do or how to act* ...

novel wwx: scars? weird. time to STEAL the fucking token and GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE

novel lwj: bitch i’ll kill you

anyway. the novel wangxian are wild and chaotic. the live action wangxian are home raised and neat. i am? invested. 

[valdrift]

hi its 3am and i wrote down dnd au shit that im putting under cut bc its. long

pre-canon is mostly the same with minor differences bc d&d magic at play

 jyl and jzx die but they're ok bc true resurrection baby. maybe it takes them a while to be resurrected bc, at the time, resurrection is a fairly new spell/VERY expensive (requires diamonds worth 25k gp in game)/no one was high enough level to cast the spell and also the spell is taxing on the caster/resurrection is taboo (not sure abt that one). anyways they live and raise jl :) jc is still angry but for different reasons and he's also Not As Angry and misses his brother. wwx doesn't know that jyl/jzx lived

wwx doesn't die. during the bloodbath of nightless city, he manages to destroy one half of the stygian tiger seal but before he can destroy the other, the siege on the burial mounds happens. he planeshifts to the 9 hells to escape taking the remaining half with him. such spells were completely unknown at the time and were of wwx's invention so ppl just assumed he died/killed himself. he stays in hell for 13 years (part cultivating his powers/part thinking he deserves it) before finally returning to the material plane thx to mxy

during those 13 years, ppl definitely try to reach him. BUT considering he's on another plane of existence, they often fail. communication spells like sending usually fail but Some do reach him, though he thinks he's just going crazy or it's just wishful thinking. (jyl successfully sends him a message like "a-xian? are you there? …well, wherever you are, i hope you're ok. i miss you. i love you. we all do. please come back." and wwx thinks it isn't real. he DEFINITELY cries when he finds out it actually was real and he wasn't losing his mind in hell)

REGARDING WWX'S POWERS: no one has done it like him!! forming a pact with a fiend was practically unheard of/extremely taboo and the fact that he managed to outgrow his patron in terms of power (lvl 20 baby) is something in of itself. wwx is like The First Warlock Ever and after his "death" many others tried to follow in his footsteps, however no one came even close in terms of power. xy maybe but fuck that guy lol

MXY LIVES!!! bc of reasons he manages to get his hands on a deck of many things from the jin vault (perhaps nhs had a hand in it :eyes:) and draws a wish card on the first try (Very Lucky). he uses that card to essentially wish a pact with the yiling patriarch into existence and over in hell wwx is like "hey wtf is going on" and pops into mxy's shed to see what's up

wq also lives!! jgs covered up her death and wn and her bust out of jinlintai when wwx calls

CURRENT-CANON:

mxy and wwx have a patron/ward relationship. wwx Knows he's not like his own patron and has no desire for mxy's soul or w/e so he's just "yea fine i guess i'll be your evil teacher :/"

wtf is wwx's patron anyway lol…..maybe it's a demon/fiendish entity that resided in the burial mounds that wwx formed a pact with to survive. it probably hangs out on another plane of existence and was partly responsible for his deteriorating mental state.

at mo manor, the mo family dies without mxy or wwx rlly having to do anything. mxy uses his fledgling warlock skills to help out the lan juniors with the arm. lwj shows up after and wwx's like AH FUCK and dips with mxy following after him

wwx uses mask of many faces to disguise himself in his humansona (bc like. he's a tiefling and also very recognizable, being the yiling patriarch and all no biggie) and has bonding moments with mxy. mxy realizes that wwx is not actually evil incarnate; he's actually a fucking dumbass ESPECIALLY when the man starts talking about lwj. (idk how this plays in but I want wwx to complain abt lwj like "i used to be taller than him, now we're the same height?? bullshit >:(" bc i am spreading my short lwj propaganda)

mxy and wwx run into jl at some point. wwx is like :'( when he finds out who it is, jl is a baby homophobe and mxy is like I Will Tell Your Mother to which wwx goes WHAT. BACK UP bc surprise, jyl's actually alive! while he's reeling with this information, mxy drags him away

at dafan mountain, mxy and wwx help out the juniors with the goddess statue. wwx summons wn and jc is like HEY WAIT A SECOND. he goes to hit wwx with zidian (still has the ability to knock possessive spirits but it also has dispel magic, not good for wwx's disguise!) however mxy deflects it with *fjord critical role voice* Eldritch Blast earning lwj's respect. anyways lwj takes both mxy and wwx back to the cloud recesses; mxy doesn't see what's the big deal, wwx is freaking out and Desperately wants to planeshift out of there but he has a ward now and disappearing like that would mean the jigs up considering no one else can planeshift

at the cloud recesses, mxy ditches wwx with lwj so the two can have a Talk to go chill. lwj is like "wei ying drop the humansona i know it's you" and wwx goes :O well. after, mxy comes back and is like "ok so here's the deal with the arm" and spills what he knows abt jgy and what he did and the 3 of them head off to get evidence

I Do Not Remember much of their whole like journey to piece nmj's body back together but it'd probably go much faster with mxy alive and knowledgeable to jgy's shit

wangxian are still gay and stupid

idk abt yi city but songxiao and a-qing get a better ending and xy eats shit

there will def be a yunmeng sib reunion.

POST-CANON:

pulling a page from cql, lwj is chief cultivator but only so he can like. actually do some good then once he's done dismantles the position or smth so he can live out his house husband dreams with wwx

wwx still goes on that journey so he can relearn what it's like to be a person in society and not someone hated and demonized. also he lived in literal hell for 13 years, dude needs time to process that. but u KNOW when he comes back, he's eloping with lwj

with all the pieces of nmj's body back together, nhs true resurrects him :)

NOTES:

wen clan are a mix of tiefling and human, with direct members being tiefling

lsz and ljy are human, jl is half-elf (half-triton), and ozz is a tabaxi (catboy rights!!)

wwx definitely used mask of many faces to entertain a-yuan in the burial mounds by disguising himself as whoever a-yuan asked. (disguises himself as lwj at their dinner date bc a-yuan said so and lwj is like Fuck…….He Would Make Such A Good Father…………)