#them itll b like this 4 the rest of my life i honest to god wish i wldve died any of the times i committed bc im 2 fucking scared to do it

[gumdecay]

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[comicteaparty]

June 24th-June 30th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from June 24th, 2019 to June 30th, 2019.  The chat focused on Drugs & Wires by Mary Safro & Io Black.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Week Long Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Drugs & Wires by Mary Safro & Io Black~! (https://www.drugsandwires.fail/)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Remember, though, that while we allow constructive criticism, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic. Below you will find four questions to get you started on the discussion. However, a new question will be posted and pinned everyday (between 12:01AM and 6AM PDT), so keep checking back for more! You have until June 30th to tell us all your wonderful thoughts! With that established, let’s get going on the reading and the chatting!

QUESTION 1. What has been your favorite scene in the comic so far? What specifically did you like about it?

QUESTION 2. Who do you think made the Worm and for what reason? Why does it seem to mostly be affecting Stradania and not other places? Do you think Dan’s implant can ultimately be fixed, or is he stuck forever away from VR?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. At the moment, who is your favorite character? What about that character earns them this favor?

QUESTION 4. What aspect of the world’s cyberpunk setting interests you the most and why? Alternatively, what aspect are you hoping to see explored a bit more in regards to how it affects the characters?

RebelVampire

1) Gonna be a bit depressing when I say the bridge scene where Dan almost threw himself off it. Which I'm gonna spoiler tag the rest of this just as a suicide trigger warning precaution. I was 100% right there in the moment with him during that scene. Like I understood why he'd arrived at that conclusion, and it didn't come off as patronizing as I feel a lot of similar suicide scenes often do in comics. This is a man who even I felt really had nothing to live for, as sad as that is to say. Not that I wanted Dan to die, of course, but I get absolutely why he would. And then when he's saved, I liked that he is angry about it. Cause that is a dark reality I feel too many comics shy away from. And just all that gritty realism really hit me in the heart. 2) I don't know who made the worm and I don't think it matters all that much. Rather, I think the reason is more important, and the reason I think is to either kill VR or draw attention to Dan's shitty country. Which I kind of want to believe the latter, that this is somehow politically motivated. Or even if its the former, the idea is to get ppl more politically involved. That being said, I do think it's someone in Stradania who made it. As for Dan's implant being fixed, I don't think so. I don't think he'll be let off the hook that easy, and that he will continue to have to face his awful world for what it is, garbage and all.

3) Dan because he is the delicious epitome of a flawed protagonist. He's not mean, but between his drug problems, his crappy attitude towards most people, and so forth, he's got some real issues to work through. But that's great, cause at least that makes the few steps forward he's taken more satisfying. Since he's not getting those steps easy. He has to basically crawl through metaphorical lava to gain even 2 cm. 4) I really like the world's integration of VR and cybernetics. Like it's not on the level it's just there, but there's businesses around it, slang around it, and so forth. It's presented as this super ingrained culture thing, and that is super hard to play off. And it's just really well-done to see all the ways that those aspects bleed into their lives, whether the invention was intended to do so in that way or not.

Historical Jesus

I'm about to catch up. gimmy some time

RebelVampire

itll be going for the rest of the week, so theres no rush.

snuffysam

1) My favorite scene is the basement wake. It's a cool way to introduce those side characters (especially Vlad), and we were shown how our protagonist is seen through other people's eyes.

Like, we as the readers get to see Dan's struggles first-hand, but seeing the way Dan's "friends" think of him as a mindless junkie is really eye-opening

Re-reading the wake chapter made me think of something regarding question (2). Rebel, you suggested that the worm may have been made to kill VR. Could the reverse be true instead? Vlad has this speech about how the victims of the worm are martyrs, and the rest of the cast groans... but maybe he's not so far off.(edited)

My favorite character is Lin. On the surface, she's a terrible, shady person, but she's got heart where it counts! (in a trunk with a bunch of other organs)

Though I also really like Dan, for the same reasons as Rebel. He starts off in such a terrible place, and watching him take baby steps towards improvement is... honestly, uplifting, even if he does sometimes take some big steps backward.(edited)

RebelVampire

QUESTION 5. What has been your favorite illustration in the comic so far? What specifically about it do you like?

QUESTION 6. Do you think Dan will manage to find Eve again? If so, how might that affect him? Further, what do you think Dan’s past history is in general with his family and others that might play a role in the story?

Historical Jesus

Is the person writing this comic Russian

RebelVampire

cant speak for Io, but while not from Russia, Mary does speak Russian

Historical Jesus

SHe might have had family immigrate from Russia. This story just feels very Russian in the sense that everyone is down on their luck

But yeah. This story is freaking great!

Cryo

Hey, Mary here! I'm a Russian from Latvia, Io's German but I usually consult him on any Russian bits we have in the comic : D thanks so much for reading, loved seeing all the replies so far!

Historical Jesus

It's you

@Cryo Do you have experience with information security or bug hunting?(edited)

I mean, you sound like you REALLY understand hacker culture(edited)

Historical Jesus

ok I finished

1: Favorite scene? Hard to tell honestly. I like them all for different reasons. It's the continuum of the story I appreciate. The fact I'm always wanting to see what happens next? 2: Who made the worm. I've noticed that people who were infected had illegal copies of software. From a cybersecurity perspective, worms only work when either (A) someone finds a vulnurability that has never before been seem or (B) people don't update their shit for whatever reason. Hence why most software schedules mandatory updates. This could just be the inevitable conclusion to using pirated or older software. 3: Favorite character: Dan. I can relate to him the most. I don't do party drugs, just psycodelics.

4: Favorite aspect of cyberpunk. Historical relevance. In our past, rulers were privileged to rule because humans believed they were "ordained by God" to rule. European philosophers then said that the right to rule belongs to those who become the height of natural selection/ The premise being that there is no god and that we are "free agents" with "free will." No one is entitled to anything unless they produce something of value. This made perfect sense when manual labor was relevant and everything had to be done by hand. This includes pen and paper math. Hence why pay is exclusively based on labor value. Enter the age of technology fucked this up. Capitalism today is STUPIDLY efficient. We WHOOPED natural selections ass. We also learned that humans can't simply "change their outlook at will." Humans are mortal and are not much different than machines. The have needs and all that pesky human stuff. Some people could argue that healthier people have more free will than others, but poverty is the inevitable conclusion to this "free will" "labor value" mindset. But people think principles are sacred and set in stone. So what we are seeing is devalued labor and everyone becoming more poor and the formation of corporate oligarchies and dependences. Cyberpunk was WAY ahead of it's time in seeing this. We need to revisit this genre because I sure as shit don't want to live under a global illuminati with hard line cultural segregation.(edited)

Cryo

No, no real hacking experience here, I'm a 3d modeller by trade. We do our research when we can but our readers are a lot more technically minded than we are :p

Historical Jesus

I love 3D modeling

Attila Polyák

I'll be totally honest your work didn't really catch me at first, but I kept reading. Aaaaand dang that was a good decision. This is genuinely well made. I'm only at the end of chapter 4 but that bridge scene was great. I'm pretty sure it'll be my favourite scene but I need to read the rest first.

Historical Jesus

I have one of two options in life. Make high detailed models to sell on Gumroad or make comics. Gumroad will require constant adaptation to new software, but I already have my comic story structure fgiured out

Cryo

@Attila Polyák thanks for giving us a chance! Hope you enjoy the rest ( though chapter 5 is a lot less dramatic in comparison!)

Historical Jesus

Do you have a resolution in mind or are you just making it as you go?

Cryo

Yeah, we know where we're taking the story, but how it gets there can vary. Lots of the scenes we wrote years ago have to be tweaked or redone entirely to work

Historical Jesus

If the "free will" capitalist have their way, then we can expect the future to look very similar. Lots of poor people using lots of old tech. All software and hardware is closed sourced and locked down.The division between rich and poor will be larger than ever. Many of the zero days will be state sponsored much like they are now and they can use this to legally infect people and categorize them and use their own information against them if they ever become a threat to the state or the rich tech oligarchy

When I read this I got sense of creepy forcasting

More kids are playing with the Linux Kernal than smoking cigarettes so we might be ok

Historical Jesus

5: Favorite illustration? Anything that involved gif animations. That's not to say it should be overused but it was used at the right time

6a: Will Dan find Eve again? Probably. Since Cryo has a conceptual end in mind, I imagine she serves a key purpose in the plot. If they don't then it's likely that their actions will effect each other in some way.(edited)

6b: What is Dan's history with his parents? Let's look at who Dan is now. He's a poor drug addict who has had a dead end job. Yet he is not an overly angry person. Just depressed. He hangs around computer poetry people and other drug people. As a person who has experience with drugs, I noticed three types of people who do the dangerous drugs. At least in the US. They are... -People who have had repressive or needlessly strict parents. Thus overdoing drugs becomes associated with freedom and eventually a point of rebellion. But you can do too many of them. -People who are poor and need to sell them because they are poor. Naturally many of them do the drugs themselves so they naturally become addicted. -People who's parents are drug users themselves. The people who teach are schools will tell you it's that "people are trying to be cool" and it has nothing to do with that. Truth be told, they are hiding something. There is also a lot of dark racial history behind enhancing substances and the law and that can influence people's decision to take them, but I don't want to get into that because I don't want to get booted from this server.(edited)

Historical Jesus

Actually, @Cryo, would you be willing to give us a brief personal biography? Also, if you are, then can you tell us about your parents, what they did for a living, and the income situation you had growing up.(edited)

Why am I asking this? I think we can come up with more interesting answers about the comic if we know YOU as a person and how that influences your writing. I was able to infer that this story sounded Russian as fuck. Since the setting was Russian, I figured you were either from there or had family there

We can give more interesting answers that can help you come up with more interesting writing

RebelVampire

@Historical Jesus Your questions are getting a little personal, and while I understand the logic behind them, keep in mind we're here to discuss the comic and not the creators' personal lives.

keii4ii

Yeah... I feel even if the creators are okay with discussing it, this stuff is best left to DM

Historical Jesus

I understand. I would like to give her the choice. If she chooses not to then I understand. Biologically speaking, I think art is meant to be personal.

keii4ii

(and of course, if they don't want to discuss it, no one should pressure them about it )

RebelVampire

yeah if @Cryo wants to answer that's fine. Just for the future please keep those sorts of questions to a minimum and watch the wording on them. Cause that statement did sound overly pressure filled.

Historical Jesus

of course

keii4ii

I don't think we should be getting further into this territory?

RebelVampire

Agreed. This isn't a really appropriate topic for #week_long_bookclub, @Historical Jesus and has little to do with the comic.

Historical Jesus

I understand. I'm trying to demonstrate the the relevance and the benefits of understanding the author as a person. And again, it's her choice to choose what she discloses.

RebelVampire

And again, I get the logic. But just not appropriate for this discussion.

Historical Jesus

fair enough. I just want it to be known

I rephrased the question so it's less assertive. I apologies, I suck with social skills. Hopefully by the time she reads it, then it will be more inviting for her.

RebelVampire

thats better wording for sure, thank you.

Historical Jesus

no problem

art was definitely designed to be personal. The reason why a lot of big budget art feels bland is because it's meant for everyone and they have to not get too deep into offending people. Because it has to make money. That requires the work of a true genius. D&W is specialized and it will attract a certain group of people. Mostly people who value anonymous culture like myself. Or so I imagine.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 7. Which characters do you enjoy seeing interact the most? What about their dynamic interests you?

QUESTION 8. Will Lin actually go through with her plan to get into politics? If so, do you believe she can actually make a difference? What obstacles do you think she might run into, and do you think Dan will be of any help to her?

Cryo

(i would appreciate not having to talk about my life and anyones political beliefs neither here nor in DMs, thanks for understanding)(edited)

Historical Jesus

Understood

Historical Jesus

7: Dan, primarily because he is relatable. He would interact the way I would. Not having money sucks.

Historical Jesus

8: Will in go into politics? Probably not. She strikes me as a neroatypycal character. I could be wrong though.

RebelVampire

@snuffysam If the worm was designed to improve VR, I really want to meet the person who decided that making ppl martyrs was the way to go. Cause that's some backwards thinking, imo at least XD

5) There's a lot of really great ones, but I'm kind of fond of the illustration of Dan puking up rainbows. It's this cool mix of gross, psychedelic, and not what I expected. It expressed a lot of mood somehow for something that's less grand than I usually pick. 6) I think Dan will find Eve again, if only cause from a technical perspective she was introduced super early on to not be important. However, I think meeting her again is just gonna make him feel bad about himself as he realizes how little his baby steps of improvement are. In regards to his family, just gonna be bold and say my theory: his dad is part of that political group that took control and really hates cyborgs and technology and all that. Thus they were probably not the most open-minded and rejected Dan in multiple ways both through emotional abuse and neglect.

7) I like seeing Dan and Troy right now. Everyone else in the comic is kind of...shitty towards Dan. Like i know Dan isn't the greatest person, but I would hate to be in the situation where I'm constantly being told I'm a junkie who won't amount to anything. Which I mean don't get me wrong, those are interesting interactions. But Troy? Troy is this new person whose only experience with Dan is kind of a nice if not high tension one. Troy comes with a fresh, no prior knowledge of Dan perspective, and I think that's really interesting and gonna be a good way to shed new light on Dan's more positive traits. 8) I think Lin will try to go through with it, but I think Lin is fighting a losing game. Short of stuffing the ballot, I don't think those she's trying to help will vote for her. Instead they'll just bitch and be complacent to the world around them. But on that same vain, Lin probably could just stuff the ballots to win. I umm...honeslty don't think Dan can help her in anyway. Dan is really busy helping himself to suck less at the moment. XD

RebelVampire

QUESTION 9. What sorts of art or story details have you noticed in the way the comic is crafted that you think deserves attention?

QUESTION 10. What do you think Sandman and Fixer will find in regards to the Worm as the story continues, and what does the VR cafe Sandman has been hacking have to do with anything? How will Nate tie into this given he’s looking for Fixer?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 11. What do you think are this particular comic’s strengths? What do you think makes this comic unique? Please elaborate.

QUESTION 12. Overall, what role do you think Troy will have within the story? Additionally, how will she get out of her situation with having no ID, money, or much in the way of people she knows?

Historical Jesus

9: The art against the web design literally looks like something we would see at Def Con

10: I image he has a lead. After all his motivation is revenge

11: it’s strength is that it's good at making people empathize with characters even if you can't relate to them

12: I don't think Troy will get out of her situation. If she comes back to the states empty handed she will be fired. It might be in her best interest to get wrapped up in finding the worm programmer

Typically speaking large scale worms are state sponsored but it's not clear how far this thing actually spreads.

RebelVampire

9) My favorite details so far have been the small things in the background. Like the random graffiti on the walls, the cracks and dilapidation of the buildings, all the small do-dads in Lin's place. Like none of that needs to be there to create a complete background, but it adds so much character to the setting and each character. So I really appreciate the extra mile taken for that. 10) I think Sandman and Fixer are gonna find that some corporation or someone high up on some food chain made it on purpose. As for the VR cafe? Honestly, I think it's a red herring and Sandman is making an excuse to target them just cause he hates them. As for Nate, I think Nate is gonna join the investigation team but also kind of serve as a negotiator between Fixer and Dan. Cause I don't think those two will get along without help.

11) I think this comic's strengths are a) the setting both visually and story wise, as it's a really strong and vivid setting. then b) Dan. It is very, very hard to write a character like Dan. There are so many things he does that could immediately make him unlikeable, what between the drugs, self destruction, and general assholeness to some of the ppl around him. but yet he is likeable. you do want to see him succeed and not suffer. yet you also still can acknowledge hes unreliable. its a great dynamic that lesser writing could not pull off. 12) I think Troy is gonna be their viewport into the corporate world. Which I think will play a role since there is a themeing here about evil corporations. Plus, she at least knows some stuff better than they do, as she already showed off at the VR cafe. But getting out of it? Nope. Shes stuck and probably gonna make another panicked call to Dan at some point. And Dan will be an angel and help again.

snuffysam

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Not only will Lin go through with running for office, she'll win. And she won't even have to stuff the ballot that much. But... I'm not sure her fight will be over there. After all, there's more than just one corrupt person in the country. I agree with you on the investigation into the Worm, @RebelVampire . I think someone up the corporate ladder is responsible. With that said, I don't think Sandman is targeting the VR cafe for nothing. I think he's trying to draw more attention to their security flaws for... some reason. I guess to get more people involved in investigating? I doubt he foresaw Troy showing up and offering to upgrade the cafe's machines though, so I that probably isn't part of his plan. I think a major part of Dan's character arc going forward will be accepting that he doesn't need Eve. Like, accepting that he doesn't need her help to get better, and that he's the only one he needs to prove his progress to.

Dan's character writing is absolutely my favorite part of this comic. In a weaker comic, I would absolutely hate how a self-destructive character like Dan is portrayed. Like, often characters with addiction/other mental health problems in fiction come off as unlikeable, or too cartoonish, or too depressingly stagnant (at least, from what I've seen in other works of fiction). But Drugs & Wires strikes a great balance where character progression isn't always linear, and isn't always positive, but it's there, and that fluidity makes you want to root for him more each chapter.

Attila Polyák

Now that I finally read all of it... 1, The bridge scene at the end of chapter 4, that was really done. 2, Dan's implant... I'm pretty sure it can be fixed, but I have doubts if Dan will ever have the resources to have it fixed. As a matter of fact I feel like he'll never have the money or influence to have it fixed and the way it is he can't really replace it either, so... He's probably stuck without VR. 3, Lin! She's awesome! 4, Probably the grey market implant dealers, even though that's kinda bog standard cyberpunk stuff. :) 6, Yes, they will probably meet again. And yes, I do feel like we'll need to see more of Dan't past history especially about how he got involved in... well in everything that's his current life. 7, Nagy, as surreally odd, is a great addition to Dan. Like at times I thought his absurdity would actually help Dan. 8, Ofc she will, you don't forge that much "voter trust" for nothing. And Dan, tho probably seemingly unwillingly, will likely help her one way or another.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 13. What are you most looking forward to in the comic? Also, do you have any final thoughts to share overall?

QUESTION 14. Do you think Dan will ever be able to kick his drug habit, or will he continue to fall back into it forever? How will this affect his relationships? Further, how will his habits shape his future role in the story?

RebelVampire

13) I'm looking forward to getting more info about the worm. Cause right now I dont feel any more knowledgeable than I did at the start, and I'm itching to see Sandman, Fixer, or Dan to somehow get a bigger clue to what's going on. 14) I think both will apply. In that Dan will kick the habit eventually but will always be at risk because addiction is not really something you just completely cure. It's a battle he'll have for his entire life, even if he learns to manage it. As for for his relationships, I don't think it'll have much affect, tbh. Maybe things with Lin will improve, maybe Eve. But everyone else is kind of a jerk who already writes him off. Dan is in need of a fresh start somewhere far away.

Historical Jesus

13: Same here. I would like to know more about the worm. I hope that Cyro puts a cool technical characteristic into the worms behavior so that creates interesting and unique challenges for the characters 14: Statistically speaking most people do not kick their drug habit's. Especially not in the position he is in. Based on the story's cultural nature, I doubt the ending will be happy. But I am sure it will be interesting

Cryo

Thanks so much for picking and reading our comic this week! I've had a great time reading all the replies, especially since we don't hear from new readers often, and it's gonna come in handy when we get back into writing more stuff for the comic.

snuffysam

I had a great time reading it, Cryo!

Io.Black

Just wanted to add my own thanks to everybody who took the time to read and comment this past week. As a writer, it’s always incredibly valuable to get a sense of what people are taking away from your work, as well as where they think it’s headed.

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Drugs & Wires this week! Please also give a special thank you to Mary Safro & Io Black for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Drugs & Wires, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: https://www.drugsandwires.fail/

Drugs & Wires’ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/drugsandwires

Drugs & Wires’ Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/Cryodraws

Drugs & Wires’ Merch: https://www.hellovoid.online/

Safro’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/marysafroart

Io Black’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/b_iologic