#thequietghost

[mc-critical]

I think Magnificent Century downplayed Hurrem's power and influence. Almost all the things Hurrem had achieved, such as having multiple children after the birth of her son and being the first Haseki of the Ottoman Empire we're already achieved by Mahidevran and others. The only thing Hurrem was seen to achieved was her marriage and being made into a legal and free wife of the sultan.

In general, I agree. On the historical side of things, the show did remove quite a bit of her "wow" factor when it came to the haseki title, they practically erased the existence of the "one mother - one son" tradition pre-Hürrem and even her building all these foundations wasn't presented as such an unprecedented thing in the show, especially given that Hürrem's first thought of doing it came in a stark parallel of Mahidevran's own charity work, it directly being a desire of Hürrem's to somehow outdo her. (which is why Nigar proposed the holy lands in the first place)

I'd argue that the show tried out a different approach in showing Hürrem's overall elevation. I felt they made a desperate attempt to balance their soapy narratives with their historical framework, which perhaps couldn't allow Hürrem gaining so much power, so fast. That's why she especially, along with her and Süleiman's love, had to have consistent narrative opposition throughout the whole thing and yet, they still had to show something that put her over the rest. Not making Hürrem the first haseki in the show and making her have many kids be normal for the system in general (which, interestingly enough, didn't seem to be for Mahidevran, but that could be explained with her trouble adapting to her new environment) could've looked like the writers were trying to even the odds with her enemies, to make the fight seem "fair" somehow and show her beating them in their own game, but this does create contradictions with the show trying to make them all lose through their own failings. The writers of the early seasons tried to garner sympathy for Hürrem by creating a constant pattern of her enemies attacking her incessantly and often making that trigger Süleiman's protective instincts and/or give her priveleges that no one else got. (every time someone attacked Hürrem, SS's love for her became stronger and continued to favor her even more as a result - i.e Mahidevran beating her? SS gave her her own chambers. Valide making so Hürrem asks a question to the sheikhul Islam on whether does she have the right to give charity for the holy lands? That, even to a small extent, triggered her freeing. Valide and Ibrahim arranging the attack in the forest? It was then SS realized he had to marry her. Hürrem framing Mahidevran for an assault on Gülfem? Only then SS gave her the harem. I know I'm repeating myself on these, but still.) There are many factors she got a distinct treatment in the show and there are plenty victories she achieved by her own strength by doing something no one else would dare to (like the fiasco with the Russian concubines), but it still so often seemed like many stuff that became unprecedented for Hürrem, happened because of her enemies' miscalculation. That turned out to be a double-edged sword, because while it gave us a nuanced picture of her character with a stable and valid motivation, it also became very over exaggerated and overplayed, making many of her victories look like plot convenience as a result.

I think this attempted balance between the soapy elements and the historical framework made Hürrem's power and influence be seen more "in between the lines", more tell than show. What annoyed me the most isn't in the fact that they didn't make her haseki or the erased existence of the "one mother - one son" tradition, no, the fact that even after she got so much power, it seemed like nothing had changed. The established hierarchy of the show is messed up, no lie, but seeing no one respect her as much, aside from season 4 definetly rubs me the wrong way the more I think about. I see that this way they tried to present the "opposition of the traditions" (and they did so amazingly in the Mahidevran rules the harem arc, especially) and it worked until a certain period of time, but after that period of time had passed, after the season 2 finale at the latest, her power had to be explored at a different angle. And they didn't do that. Before season 4, the status quo remained almost the same in terms of that, and even though I get the earlier attempts to enforce sympathy for her because of all the disrespect she's gotten regardless and all, it had to stop sooner or later. It arguably did by season 4, but still.

[Now, there is that persistent urge of Hürrem in the show to keep telling us that she's different from other women and there are truly a bunch of quotes that illuminate that. Her infamous "I'm not Mahidevran!", "Even if all the women in the world shout together, they still wouldn't overcome my whispers.", "There is no such woman. (that his majesty could fall in love with)" etc. While it could be interpreted as badass and epic by fans, it in no way shows some unprecedented influence or power, the more favourable treatment of SS aside and strictly writing-wise I would dare even say it's more of a tease when it comes to all this. Hürrem believes she's unique and special, but the narrative.. doesn't quite support that claim in retrospect.]

More annoyingly is when, the writers did try to fix this in the end of season 4, near her death episodes. They showed people love and respect her and what she means to everyone, but that rubbed more salt to the wound, because it was not only too late and seemed almost like fanservice as a result, it didn't do all that much, either. It was neither power, nor influence.

While there's a big part of me that appreciates Hürrem's part in this narrative and while what we got from her fitted thematically with the rest of the Sultanate of Women (it makes perfect sense that Hürrem's the least powerful of them all in the show and the contrast between Hürrem and Turhan showcased the power evolution of the SOW perfectly), it makes me sad they choose an approach that coupled with biased narrative voice and soapy drama tools that overstayed their welcome.

[ottomanladies]

Apart from Ottoman history, what other types of history do you like (ex: Italian history)?

Mmh this is hard because I prefer periods over countries. The High Middle Ages, the Renaissance Era, the XVII century (mostly the Wars of Religion) and the late XIX century, when empires start collapsing.

As I mostly study Continental Europe in uni, I'd say that French history is the one that I like the most after Ottoman history ofc. I used to love English history but now it bores me.

Oh I also love the post-Ottoman Middle East. Very interesting.

[mc-critical]

Going off my last ask, I think Magnificent Century would have been more interesting if it tried to be as historically accurate as possible.

I'm personally not that big on historical accuracy if the liberties the writers take work for the script: if it's logical for the characters, setting and rules established I never have a gripe. That's why season 2B is perhaps my favorites in that regard - all the decisions it made made sense (a harem within the harem, the Efsun arc and everything from E59-onward, especially Mahidevran and Gülfem ruling the harem together and the whole deal with the infidelity plot) and it created some very juicy character and thematic drama.

On one hand, I get why the show was more soapy than usual at some point - it's a matter of the genre they chose and the desire to appeal to Turkey's mass audience. Magnificent Century was one of the first, if not the first historical series to attempt doing that. There was another series about Hürrem Sultan that has aired in 2003, that series had a more documentary nature (to the point the only fictional thing was Mehmet going to Amasya instead of Manisa before his death, as far as I'm concerned. There was a plot-line where Güfem slept with the Sultan after Hürrem's rise in the harem and Hürrem prevented her to get more influential by befriending her, but that could be a tad more credible.) and it didn't succeed at all. The MC crew perhaps wanted to avoid the same fate* and went for the safer option to win the crowd over. A fully historical show was probably risky to try out at this point, given the way the MC teasers alone caused more than enough outrage. That's why a slower tonal shift, a Cerebus Syndrome route was maybe more appropriate. For the mass audience to experience enough of what they know and love, to endear themselves to the characters and only then for everything to go off the rails. Not to mention the strong Gray and Gray morality going - some issues would be too touchy of a subject and who knows, maybe they decided to present them to the audience slowly and surely and postpone them as much as possible. (a main character death happened only in the end of the second season and we all know how streched Mustafa's death was, even though this was also because of Writer's Favoritism.)

On the other hand, I agree there were a lot of times the writers went too far to force (mostly unnecessary) drama. There was even that one time where I felt that a fictional plot line felt way better and more consequential than a supposedly historical deed of the same character. (unpopular opinion time!) I prefer the poison to the beating as a plot device because the poison had much more significance in the show than Mahidevran beating Hürrem ever did: not only did it flesh out Mahidevran's character in depth a lot more, but that's the thing all the characters involved have in their memory, with Süleiman recalling it in the far into E102! The beating barely got a passing mention in comparison and it seemed like the poison erased all meaning it could've had. I don't think this was the intent of the writers, they just wrote themselves into a corner here to enforce even more the fallout between Süleiman and Mahidevran. (ah, I could go on and on with the ups and downs of these two plots and the episodes they were in...)

That said, I'm not all that annoyed by the main love triangles of the show, but sometimes the drama could be far too.. "every day"- like. For the bulk of the first two seasons especially, the show looked like your normal, casual soap and nothing else rather than a historical show of a kind. It influences both the writing and the sympathies, because while I get the thematic part of it all (letting go of the past) and the way it could be comprehended more easily by the audience, the love triangle between Hürrem, Süleiman and Mahidevran is overplayed and oversimplified, reeking of the archetypes for such story that overtake it all more often than not. I also suspect that this is the reason Gülfem barely got a backstory and that was unfortunate, because that's one of the characters I would've loved to see more development of.

The thing I disliked the most about the soapy side of things are definetly the concubine arcs. Not only because they were way too many and the first one of them (Isabella, that is) was so cheesy and made zero sense, but because even after the slow tonal shift and transition of the show, the concubine arcs were the only thing that was left out of all the made up stuff. They slowly got rid of everything in season 4, but not them! That's something I would've removed or at least downplayed for sure, because it both shook up the intent of the "story of one love" and was so incredibly long it took nearly the halves of its respective seasons! The concubine arcs presented the writers' will for repetition to its most annoying extent and it's sad that this is the thing they didn't want to let go of. And it's not even some kind of fanservice, either, because the reception for these arcs was far from positive. Here more historical accuracy would definetly be a godsend the most out of everything. Heck, I think the Nazenin arc would've worked way better if the entirety of it happened in Manisa - for Nurbanu and Nazenin to fight for Selim, not Hürrem and Nazenin for Süleiman! It would be much less historically inaccurate, would be a part of the shift in focus to the lives of the princes just like everything else and would highlight the Gülnihal/Hürrem - Nurbanu/Nazenin parallel a lot better, too!

The show would be boring if it were completely historical, but if it were completely fictional it would all defeat the point of everything in the first place, the wins of some of these plots notwithstanding. So truly, a neat balance would be the best course of things and the show fails to deliver on that in quite a few instances. In my opinion, the "original arcs" reached their peak by season 2B and the last two seasons were better on the historical story and themes, for many of the creative liberties they took.. were less than stellar. So it all depends on execution, if you ask me: you could have as many historically accurate threads as possible, but if you don't balance and position them in the right way in your narrative, it could still become a mess. You could be the most historical show in the world, but you should "deliver these facts" in a plausible way in which people get to appreciate your story. That's why I cut the fictional parts more slack than not and more than often I do find some intent behind them, but yeah, some stuff could've surely gotten cut out and it wouldn't make the show less interesting.

[ottomanladies]

Hello, I just wanted to say that you inspire me to learn more about Ottoman history, and hope you have a good day. (Also, you are a great gif maker)

thank you so much!! 🤍