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horizon-verizon · 1 year

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The Targaryens being so popular in the fandom is something I will never understand. It seems people just see silver hair & dragons and think it’s cool without thinking more deeply about it. The Targaryens are blood purists who think they are demigods for having dragons. And no they don’t have to inbreed to keep their “dragon blood”. The dragon blood is obviously dominant, given how Daenerys can clearly control three dragons without any problem despite having plenty of native Westerosi blood (example: the Blackwoods). So no the Targs do not need to inbreed to keep their mystical connection to dragons, the Targtowers are another example of that. They are quite literally 50% Valyrian and 50% Native Westerosi, and they all have and ride dragons just fine.

Therefore the Targs inbreed because they do view the people they rule over as inferior because they are not Valyrian. It’s not to preserve their dragon riding ability, because Targs have married non Targs plenty of times and produced dragon riding children. So the Targs very well know that inbreeding isn’t necessary. They just do it because they are blood purists and view the Westerosi as inferior to them for their lack of Valyrian blood. The Targs are an outsider tyrannical race who imposed their rule over Westeros through the threat of dragonfire, and the Hightowers/Faith are heroic for wanting to get rid of them. Hightowers are native Westerosi protecting their culture from Targaryens.

Well, now I have a place to reference to to prove that Alicent stans/green stans/Rhaenicient stans have an underlying hatred and misunderstanding of the Targaryens. Thanks anon.

But I'm still gonna need you to read A World of Ice and Fire and the reliable references of the actual ASoIaF wiki page (not the fandom one) to brush up on your ASoIaF lore and history.

Carefully, though. And multiple times.

The same Westerosi that you reference--the Hightowers--and every single noble house and many peasants of Westeros all descend from the Andals and the First Men, who intermarried some times while and after fighting each other. (Except a small few, who still descend from the First Men).

Before the Andals arrived, the First Men intentionally targeted the Children of the Forest and the giants, who occupied Westeros way before the First Men crossed the bridge from Essos to Westeros on the now gone Arm of Dorne. They were the ones who targeted native groups in order to make room and take for sources for themselves. They were the ones who destroyed the Children's weirwood trees first to make room for their own residences and infrastructures, them from a fear that the Children's greenseers would spy on them through them. The old gods that the Starks and northmen worship originally are the Children's gods. The old gods were not originally First Men gods.

Still are, since the children, though much smaller in number than before the First Men, still exist. They don't live south of the Wall, again.

The Westerosi lords don't even fully believe that the Children of the Forest and giants exist and see them as fairy tale creatures.

Because their ancestors were that successful in wiping them out from Westeros. (And yet the northerners, Blackwoods, and the Brackens still worship their gods....the irony)

The Westerosi nobles descend from a people that:

massacred and targeted a whole race or group of ethnically different people

destroyed religious sites or religious totems (weirwood trees)

took resources and the land from the targeted ethnic group as well as a land to make themselves and to have dominion over the land

left and forced a real native people to live on scarps of land (reminiscent of reservations anyone?) until they ceased to even be believed to exist

Aegon I/Rhaenys/Visenya and the Targaryens never did any of the things above, nor did they ever:

forced Westerosi lords nor peasants to adopt Valyrian cultural practices or habits

plundered resources or money from the conquered people and land to make themselves, Valyrian descendants, more powerful and wealthy to have dominion and subjugate the conquered people”

take and distribute lands previously belonging to the Westerosi lords to other Valyrians (which actually belonged to the Children of the Forest and the giants before the First Men arrived) and leave the Westerosi lords scraps of land to live off of

force their bloodline onto the people they conquered just because they felt superior to them -> if anything, the intermarriages between Targ and other houses were a thing that the lords wanted for themselves: Rhaena Targaryen (Jaehaerys and Alysanne's sister) when she stayed for a while with the Lannisters, the Lannisters and all those men who sought to marry Rhaenyra in HotD, the Martells married into the Trags twice of the own house's leader's free will, Twyin Lannister wanted to marry Cersei to Rhaegar, etc etc. -> the nobles sought marriages with the Targaryens for their dragons and the dragon kids resulting to be a part of their own house's lineage (when the Targs had dragons) AND they sought marrying into the Targs made to have influence and a guarantee of security, because bloodties……just as ancient and medieval nobles have always done before actual colonialism ever existed in real life

And the Andals were no better. They came to Westeros to escape the Valyrians and the the Faith of the Seven that they brought with them currently tells it's followers that the first Andals went to Westeros to claim "promised lands". Promised specifically to them. They warred with the First Men and and had better weapons while consistently coming from Essos on ships, which resulted in their eventual taking of most of Westeros while some also eventually intermarrying with the First Men and producing children with a shared heritage. It is because they succeed in dominating the First Men that today's Westerosi all practice the Faith and not the old gods of the Children, who the Northerners and Blackwoods/Brackens worship. (The Brackens and Blackwoods are both houses who go around boasting about their "pure" First Men blood, anon.)

All of the people produced from the the marriages between the Andals and the First Men are also direct ancestors of today's Westerosi people.

Rather, the First Men and the Andals are invader and "outsiders". Thus the Westerosi lords themselves are children of invaders and "outsiders".

The same Hightower/Westerosi lords that you lord inherit one of their religions the Faith, which allows first cousins to marry. Many Lords come from first-cousin marirages. An example is Tywin Lannister and his cousin-wife Joanna Lannister, Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion's mother.

In the north, Serena Stark married her half uncle Eric and her sister Sansa married their other half uncle Jonnel. So any and all their kids are incest babies. Yet the Faith or any of the members within never once protests that the Starks are all abominations.

All the Westerosi lords are "inbred" anon. Every single one.

Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion are all incest babies. Cersei and Jaime only took it one step further.

This is the same religion that the Hightowers and Alicent follow.

The same religion make it easier to support (recorded words after Daemon Blackfyre, yes, but the religion really oils it up) the idea that children who are born out of wedlock (parents who weren't married to each other) are inherently untrustworthy. The logic is that because these people are born from "lust, lies, and weakness, and as such, they are said to be wanton and treacherous by nature".

This is classism and blood purity, anon. That one would actually believe that a person is inherently evil, dangerous and lesser than you because their birth didn't happen within a marriage is to say that people can have inherently traits that define their entire being and value in society forever and ever. Sound, familiar anon? Sounds like the seeds of racism, right?

Alicent Hightower is a blood purist in that she sincerely believes that Rhaenyra's children are inherently lesser than her own.

In the book, when Alicent begs/demands Rhaenyra refuses to pardon Alicents' sons on the basis that Alicent's sons killed her son or were responsible for their deaths, Alicent flippantly calls her sons bastards and people lost in a war (as if she didn't cause the war by usurping Rhaenyra) to excuse their deaths and make as if her sons mattered more:

Fearing for her sons, Queen Alicent went to the Iron Throne upon her knees, to plead for peace. This time the Queen in Chains put forth the notion that the realm might be divided; Rhaenyra would keep King’s Landing and the crownlands, the North, the Vale of Arryn, all the lands watered by the Trident, and the isles. To Aegon II would go the stormlands, the westerlands, and the Reach, to be ruled from Oldtown.

Rhaenyra rejected her stepmother’s proposal with scorn. “Your sons might have had places of honor at my court if they had kept faith,” Her Grace declared, “but they sought to rob me of my birthright, and the blood of my sweet sons is on their hands.”

“Bastard blood, shed at war,” Alicent replied. “My son’s sons were innocent boys, cruelly murdered. How many more must die to slake your thirst for vengeance?”

(Fire and Blood; The Red Dragon and the Gold)

She refers to Blood and Cheese with Jaehaerys and Maelor...as if her own son Aemond didn't intentionally kill Lucerys Velaryon.

As if the Blood and Cheese episode--harrowing and immoral as it was--didn't happen as a response to Aemond killing Lucerys.

As if Alicent herself didn't call for Lucerys' eye after Aemond lost his in the same principle of eye-for-an-eye. And Rhaenyra only responded by called for the Aemond' "sharp" questioning for accusing her sons for being bastards, which would endanger their very lives:

Afterward, King Viserys tried to make a peace, requiring each of the boys to tender an apology to his rivals on the other side, but these courtesies did not appease their vengeful mothers. Queen Alicent demanded that one of Lucerys Velaryon’s eyes should be put out, for the eye he had cost Aemond. Princess Rhaenyra would have none of that, but insisted that Prince Aemond should be questioned “sharply” until he revealed where he had heard her sons called “Strongs.” To so name them was tantamount to saying they were bastards, with no rights of succession…and that she herself was guilty of high treason.

(Fire and Blood; A Question of Succession)

Gyldayn (in-universe writer of Fire and Blood) says "mothers" as if it wasn’t just Alicent who ignored Viserys and pushed first for a child's mutilation.

Rhaenyra did not call for torture or questioning (possibly just discipline) because she always hated Aemond. One, I don't believe that she actually wanted to torture Aemond anyway, but for Viserys to really come down on him and find out/publicize amd reveal where he got the idea that her kids were illegitimate. Two, she does it because Alicent wanted Lucerys' eye, no real fair judgment, and to protect her own kids.

As if Alicent herself did not encourage her son to hate the Velaryon boys, which lead to Aemond's hatred of the Velaryons boys. Which lead to Lucerys' death.

Lucerys didn't actually die in a real battle because he didn't engage with Aemond. AEMOND was the one who charged after Lucerys after Lucerys tried to leave Storm's End. Both in HotD and in Fire and Blood.

Anon, please. What is your agenda here, defending a bunch of people who are bound and determined to depose another person and use their gender's value in society against them?

D) EDIT #1:

Yes the Valyrian dragonriders and the Targs both married siblings in a centuries-long tradition for the sake of being able to use dragons. They did this for power.

Marriage is a tool for power, anon, in this entire world. It is not a Targ/Valyrian thing. Every Westerosi lord married their children to other children for power and resources. As I already said.

And they do it through incest, no matter what their own Faith says, if we are going to be all "objective" about it.

Also, the Targs kept incest marriage for the same reason why the Westerosi lords and nobles did with the right of the first night, specific ceremonies, stealing women to make into "thralls", etc: custom.

It took a fucking Targaryen Queen, Alysanne, to work towards the abolishment of the right of first night to happen (she had to convince Jaehaerys I with Septon Barth's help).

And another Targ Queen, Rhaenys the Conqueror, to introduce the rule of six, which said that a man can only legally hit his wife 6 times if she cheated on him (one for each Faith god except the death god...oh look, a Targ is using Faith/Westerosi aspect to make life better for all women. Oh, how like a colonizer....).

Before Rhaenys and her new rule of six, a man could beat his wife to death, however many times he wanted! This was a Westerosi allowance, anon.

It is Targ and Valyrian custom to marry siblings. Just as right of the first night (a First Men custom) was considered a Westerosi aristocratic right and custom that defined their very identity, the custom of sibling marriage is a thing that the Valyrians and Targs have as part of their identity and right.

And even then, the Targs still married outside of their own family time and time again despite sibling marriage being their custom, even when they either didn’t have to or if they had a relative they could marry.

I already mentioned the Martells.

Rhaena Targaryen sought out and married Androw Farman. And was in love with his sister.

Viserys married Alicent and could have married Laena (even though she was closer to him familialy/by blood)

Aegon V x Betha Blackwood

Maekaer I x Dyana Dayne

Rhaegar x Elia // Lyanna

Rhaelle x Ormund Baratheon (she was his blood grandma)

Rhaenys x Corlys Velaryon

Aegon III x Daenaera Velaryon

Elaena x Ossifer Plumm // Lord Ronnel Penrose // Michael Manwoody

Daemon Blackfyre x Rohanne Tyrosh

Daenerys [II] x Maron Martell

Daeron II x Mariah Martell

Baelor (Prince) x Jena Dondarrion

Aerys I x Aelinor Penrose

Rhaegel x Alys Arryn

Valarr x Kiera of Tyrosh

Duncan (sandy blonde one) x Kiera of Tyrosh

Duncan x Jenny of Oldstones

Prince Daeron, the gay one x Jeremy Norridge

E) EDIT #2:

It's crazy that you say that the Hightowers and Westerosi nobles are all "natives" anon, because it reminds me of how white U.S. Protestant nativists of the 19th century who wanted to eradicate and oust the Italian (because they were Catholic...) Chinese, South East Asian, etc. immigrants based on this idea that these immigrants were the outsiders.

And that they, the white Protestants, were the natives, the ones being encroached on.

As if their Puritan, Pilgrim, and enslaving ancestors did not kill and eradicate thousands of indigenous tribes for resources, on the belief that the American continents was their "promised land", or just for money.

Care to explain how you seem intent on playing yourself, anon?

F) EDIT #3:

And another Targ Queen, Visenya Targayren, created the Kinsguard. The very institution that allows Criston Cole’s prescence, who is a prime Green.

Visenya modeled the vows of the Kingsguard upon the vows of the Night's Watch, and she selected the first seven members herself.

While she helped her own son Maegor to depose and usurp Aenys I’ son, Aegon the Uncrowned, she still is responsible for creating a Westerosi institution that many young men and boys dream of being a part of. To be the prime ideal knight.

The Kingsguard was also an institution that introduced an element of meritocracy into the Westerosi monarchy/patriarchy while emphasizing unity.

And again, like Rhaenys with the rule of six, Visenya modelled the Kingsguard after a Westerosi institution...

#the targaryens #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #the valyrians #old valyria #valyria #asoiaf asks to me #asoiaf comment #fire and blood comment #targaryens as colonizers #westerosi queen consorts #targaryen queens #the valyrian freehold #westerosi queens #asoiaf religion

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laannie0803 · 4 years

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Re-fancast (4): Brynden Rivers (Jarred Blakiston)

Lord Brynden Ríos, apodado Lord Cuervo de Sangre, fue hijo bastardo del rey Aegon IV Targaryen y Lady Melissa Blackwood, así como uno de los Grandes Bastardos.

A pesar de que Melissa fue finalmente apartada por Aegon IV en favor de su séptima amante, Bethany Bracken, Brynden mantenía estrechas relaciones en la corte debido a la popularidad de su madre.

Su medio hermano bastardo Aegor Ríos, apodado Aceroamargo, y Brynden sentían recelo mutuo, aunque ambos fueron reconocidos por su padre en su lecho de muerte. Por el contrario, Brynden mantenía muy buenas relaciones con sus medios hermanos, el príncipe Daeron Targaryen y Shiera Estrellademar.

Se le consideraba un poderoso guerrero y utilizaba la espada de acero valyrio Hermana Oscura, aunque prefería su arco largo de madera de arciano, que manejaba como un experto. Cuando su medio hermano ascendió al Trono de Hierro como Daeron II Targaryen, Brynden sirvió en su Consejo Privado en el cargo de Consejero de los Rumores. Durante esos años, Brynden se convirtió en el amante de su media hermana, Shiera Estrellademar; su medio hermano Aegor Ríos también la deseaba, lo que acrecentó la enemistad entre ellos dos. Se creía que Brynden era un hechicero siniestro, gobernando el reino de forma efectiva "con espías y hechizos". La canción Mil ojos, y uno más fue escrita sobre él.

Durante la Rebelión Fuegoscuro decidió permanecer leal a Daeron II Targaryen y lideró a un grupo de arqueros llamados Picos de Cuervo. En el Consejo, abogaba por una lección dura contra los rebeldes, ganando sobre el príncipe Baelor, quien por el contrario apostaba por la clemencia. En la Batalla del Prado Hierbarroja, perdió un ojo peleando contra su medio hermano Aegor Ríos. Sus Picos de Cuervo finalmente alcanzaron con sus flechas a Daemon Fuegoscuro desde 300 yardas de distancia. Daemon y sus hijos gemelos murieron. Por esto, se marcaría a Brynden como asesino de su propia sangre.

En 209 d.C., Brynden se convirtió en Mano del Rey, sirviendo durante el reinado de su sobrino Aerys I. El hecho más importante que tuvo que afrontar fue la Gran Epidemia Primaveral, que se cobró la vida de Daeron II, la de la Mano anterior, dos príncipes y decenas de miles de otras personas.

Siguió teniendo una participación activa en la segunda y tercera Rebelión Fuegoscuro, aplastando a los rebeldes aun que Aceroamargo siempre terminaba escapando. En el 233 d. C Aenys Fuegoscuro quería participar pacíficamente en este Gran Consejo, y Cuervo de Sangre le invitó y ofreció salvoconducto a Desembarco del Rey. Una vez que Aenys llegó a la capital, sin embargo, fue detenido por las capas doradas y posteriormente decapitado en la Fortaleza Roja. El Gran Consejo eligió a uno de los hijos de Maekar, quien fue coronado como Aegon V Targaryen. El primer acto del nuevo rey fue arrestar a Cuervo de Sangre por el asesinato de Aenys; Brynden argumentó que había sacrificado su honor por el bien del reino, pero Aegon se negó a que Brynden quedase libre. Le ofreció vestir el negro en lugar de la muerte, lo que Brynden aceptó.

Cuando el maestre Aemon navegó en la Dragón de Oro rumbo hacia el Muro en 233 d.C., fue escoltado por el amigo del rey Aegon V, Ser Duncan el Alto de la Guardia Real, y acompañado de una "guardia de honor" de reclutas de la Guardia de la Noche. Eran 200 hombres y prisioneros, y entre ellos estaban Brynden Ríos y varios arqueros de sus Picos de Cuervo.

Brynden fue elegido como Lord Comandante de la Guardia de la Noche en 239 d.C. Sin embargo, desapareció en una expedición más allá del Muro en 252 d.C.

Bran Stark descubre que Lord Cuervo de Sangre, bajo la identidad del Cuervo de tres ojos, se encuentra viviendo desde hace mucho tiempo con los Hijos del Bosque en una cueva más allá del Muro, y que es el último verdevidente.

Lo considero uno de mis personajes favoritos, único, leal, inteligente y hábil. No era interesado o agresivo como sus otros medio hermanos bastardos, estuvo de lado de su hermano Daeron y de sus descendientes hasta que tuvo que irse.

Era el puto amo aun después de muchos años.

Lord Brynden Rios, nicknamed Lord Blood Raven, was the bastard son of King Aegon IV Targaryen and Lady Melissa Blackwood, as well as one of the Great Bastards.

Despite the fact that Melissa was finally set apart by Aegon IV in favor of his seventh lover, Bethany Bracken, Brynden maintained close relationships at court due to the popularity of his mother.

His bastard half-brother Aegor Rios, nicknamed Aceroamargo, and Brynden were suspicious of each other, although both were recognized by their father on their deathbed. On the contrary, Brynden maintained very good relations with his half brothers, Prince Daeron Targaryen and Shiera Estrellademar.

He was considered a powerful warrior and used the Dark Sister Valyrian steel sword, though he preferred his long weirwood bow, which he wielded like an expert. When his half brother ascended to the Iron Throne as Daeron II Targaryen, Brynden served on his Privy Council as the Counselor of Rumors. During those years, Brynden became the lover of his half sister, Shiera Estrellademar; her half brother Aegor Ríos also wanted her, which increased the enmity between the two of them. Brynden was believed to be a sinister sorcerer, effectively ruling the kingdom "with spies and spells." The song A Thousand Eyes, and one more was written about him.

During the Darkfire Rebellion he decided to remain loyal to Daeron II Targaryen and led a group of archers called Raven Peaks. In the Council, he advocated a hard lesson against the rebels, winning over Prince Baelor, who on the contrary was betting on clemency. In the Battle of Prado Hierbarroja, he lost an eye fighting his half brother Aegor Ríos. Their Raven Beaks finally hit their Darkfire Daemon with their arrows from 300 yards away. Daemon and his twin sons died. For this, Brynden would be branded as a murderer of his own blood.

In 209 AD, Brynden became Hand of the King, serving during the reign of his nephew Aerys I. The most important event he had to face was the Great Spring Epidemic, which claimed the life of Daeron II, that of the previous Hand. , two princes and tens of thousands of other people.

He continued to have an active participation in the second and third Fuegoscuro Rebellion, crushing the rebels even though Aceroamargo always ended up escaping. In 233 d. C Aenys Fuegoscuro wanted to participate peacefully in this Great Council, and Cuervo de Sangre invited him and offered safe conduct to King's Landing. Once Aenys reached the capital, however, he was stopped by the golden cloaks and later beheaded at the Red Keep. The Great Council chose one of Maekar's sons, who was crowned Aegon V Targaryen. The new king's first act was to arrest Blood Raven for the murder of Aenys; Brynden argued that he had sacrificed his honor for the sake of the kingdom, but Aegon refused to let Brynden go free. He offered to wear black instead of death, which Brynden accepted. When Master Aemon sailed the Golden Dragon for the Wall in 233 AD, he was escorted by King Aegon V's friend, Ser Duncan the High of the Royal Guard, and accompanied by a "guard of honor" of recruits from the Night guard. They were 200 men and prisoners, and among them were Brynden Ríos and several archers from his Crow Peaks.

Brynden was chosen as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in AD 239. However, he disappeared on an expedition beyond the Wall in 252 AD.

Bran Stark discovers that Lord Blood Raven, under the identity of the Three-Eyed Raven, has been living with the Children of the Forest for a long time in a cave beyond the Wall, and that he is the last green-seeer.

I consider him one of my favorite characters, unique, loyal, intelligent and skillful. He wasn't interested or aggressive like his other bastard half brothers, he sided with his brother Daeron and his descendants until he had to leave.

He was the fucking master even after many years.

#brynden rivers #aegon iv targaryen #melissa blackwood #daeron ii targaryen #barba bracken #aegor rivers #bethany bracken #shiera seastar #daemon blackfyre #blackfyre rebellion

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wafafs · 3 years

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