#this is actually based on the original concept sketch i did in my notes app at the time

[privartidahos]

shithole apartment

[blogdeanfullerton]

Week 7

This week was gathering inspiration for the UI for glass idea. Some more sketches where done to help visualise the idea along side user flows and personas.

The first new sketch I did was building from my original idea for google glass. I decided to spend more of these sketches figuring out how to display the information and my key factor was trying not to take up all of the users space on the screen so they could still see the world around them. I was looking at maybe taking advantage of the sides of the screen to display news articles due to the scrolling motion on glass which could be combined with the tap to open and swiping side ways to get settings. I didn't want a repeated motion to much as it may lead to difficulty getting the right thing or cause confusion to the users. I displayed them in 2 by 2 squares also but I wonder how hard to navigate that sort of layout would be to navigate without voice commands so I stuck to side ways swiping for articles as it seems the best way to display the content on the cards for the screen.

User Flows.

I created these user flows directly after drawing down my ideas for the UI. I did this in two different phases the first flow I did was done with the sole concept that it was just voice commands or using the swipe but was more focused on the swipe action that comes with the device. The way they both start however is by tilting your head backwards as this is what wakes glass up, or you can say “ok glass”.  I wanted the swiping to be very easy and and I wanted the UI to somewhat indicated what why you had to swipe without needed to explain it, so go sideways or up and down where the two ways the cards where displayed plainly and the centre one would be larger as an indicator to which one the user was on. The flow shows how the user can say what app they are looking for eg the news or swipe down a list until they see it in the list and then tap.

The second User flow uses the third way of navigation which is the hand, In VR the players are able to interact with object with there hands and things can be displayed in there hands such as menu items. I took this into consideration for this idea as in the emerging technologies I research the merging of virtual reality and augmented reality was on the list of things to come forming Multiple reality, so using the hands allows things to be displayed and freeing up the space on screen but also creates that futuristic Communication idea of people using communication technology in there hands to see people like in star wars so it could have some good marking potential if this where the case and of course that concept alone would get sales with people in my mind. The second flow shows how the hand options work similar to the swipe but are just fast but the swipe is still there if people feel awkward holding up there hand to get navigation or if they don’t want to use the voice commands. To make the flows easier to read voice commands are highlighted in blue where hand navigation is in green while the basic swipe is left without colour.

Research 

https://developers.google.com/glass/design/ui

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16869174/vuzix-blade-ar-glasses-augmented-reality-amazon-alexa-ai-ces-2018

Research into the glass user interface showed that it is all displayed on cards which was know before, but its rather unappealing and very large. The information doesn't need to be as large as it is displayed currently on glass. Options appear from the bottom for people top archive, reply or read aloud certain information which can be seen below.

Below are a few screenshots of videos I watched for google glass. I did this so I could get an idea of how the UI actually looked in front of your eyes. The way glass works is by looking into the to right glass with both eyes and seeing the UI. This could probably be very tiring on your eyes after a while, this is also why moving things with your eyes via an eye tracker would not be a good idea due to a persons eyes getting swore or tired after a very little amount of time, it also counteracts the idea that this is meant to be UI in front of your sight so things should be accessible when walking for example without compromising a persons eyes for movement.

The next two images are again the glass UI but the first one was about a mobile UI views in glass, this was interesting as the mobile is the our current device of mass choice and if things like glass are next it is interesting to see how these can display the same amount of content without again compromising a persons main field of view and with the limited swipe motion that glass currently has. The info is put into sliders at both sides of the screen so the middle is still visible but there is no background to the side sliders so the vision on the sides is not total compromised. The second screenshot was someone showing what glass looked like on a computer and single cards are being allocated to one specific thing, currently glass works like a smart watch, it can tell the weather, time and call people but can also take pictures and reply to texts. Its not fair to say its a smartphone on your face as smartphones are smarter and are more user friendly, to a very informed person it wont be to much of an adjustment or difficult to learn but for people who struggle with smartphones it would be impossible to comprehend. These people are obviously not in the target market but it is worth thinning about as if we can design the UI to make more sense for people who have no idea how to navigate a phone it will be that much easier for more informed people. 

The below video is the actual video as it was the biggest inspiration for my thinking of with glass, its the video demo they created to promote their Idea for glass and the UI for this looks and feel much better than the massive cards that it currently has but the problem with this is that for the nice UI and to use glass properly you need to speak into the Voice commands and this was released in 2013 when VC wasn't that great and it still has ways to come personally, Voice commands are now more capable of understanding people with accents but if you where in the street its hard to assume voice commands could make you out from the background noise. I think the use of hands and having options on your finger tips would help the user have the options needed without compromising the vision space as these glasses will need to be and are being developed to be lenses which display in front of both eyes. 

I actually got to try a pair of these glasses on and wearing them felt better than the original google glasses. The tec is all stored on one side of the frames which I think is bad as you can feel that, it needs to have a 50-50 weight distribution to have a comfort felling to it, also the design needs to be more streamlined, the thick frames are something that looks more “normal” but also they feel as massive as they are so smaller glasses would work better, again the future dream would for all of this to be in a contact lens or some bio chip so the need for these heavy frames wouldn't exists. These frames where the Vuzix Blade AR glasses and again their technology has been in development since the original google glass failed to catch onto any customer base. 

Vr - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13673-018-0154-5

There have been strives in the Vr industry primarily in video games where developers are making the worlds more immersive and the head gear has become better and more user friendly but the way the hand movements have been integrated has also changed and it is interesting to consider how the users hands are still being used as a cursor or stylus. There is a interesting article about how the HTC Vive has developed better experiences for VR and with the interactions of people in mind with there different hand controllers. The below images show how people are able to interact with displays and 3d objects with these controllers and how they are moving people away from the tradition of keyboard and mouse, this idea was interesting for this project as there inst much space to display all necessary UI or information so using the hands as well as the lenses opens new experience design opportunities.

Below are the sketches I did highlighting what I spoke about above. Such as the rise for the want for more wearable technologies but also how the original glasses used that small glass square where the new ones are more like proper glasses, the glasses above (the ones im wearing) are not googles Glasses as you can see that their design seems to be more slim compared to the ones I have on this is because they still use the little glass square where both eyes have to look up at where the ones I have on display directly in front of the view.

I also looked at how Voice commands are becoming a home staple with alexa and googles echo. The Bluetooth ear piece can be seen as one of the first of all these technologies as was symbolical piece of hardware for the on the go businessperson due to the hands free communication allowing them to take notes or text someone else at the same time.

First attempts at the UI

The below images where my first ruff go at the UI and how I wanted it to look, This was before I tested the idea of the hand navigation, I was going off a mainly google design where most of the information was on large cards, I believe I achieved the idea for the navigation where it was obvious which way you had to swipe to navigate. You can scroll the source for the news and the news articles which open up to a sideways scrolling with the main image up front and the information on again large cards with the down swipe being for options and up swipe was the go back option. The first screen shows the time and location and what the signal strength is.

I then decide to change the background image for the design to make the choices make more sense as the city is probably where most people will be using the device not out on hikes in the woods, I took some design inspiration from the mobiles on how to display the basics and I rearrange some of content to fit better for its purpose.

[brentrogers]

Podcast: Surviving Coronavirus Using a Free Mental Health App



Do you ever wish you had an always-available friend to confide in?  One who never got tired of hearing your woes? How about a non-judgmental robot who only gives the best advice based on cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT)? Well, now you’re in luck! Let us introduce you to Woebot, a robot character who helps you identify your distorted thinking. In today’s podcast, Gabe interviews the founder and president of Woebot Labs, Inc, Dr. Alison Darcy, who shares how Woebot came to be and how he can help people with mental health problems.

Intrigued? Tune in to hear how a therapy robot actually works and why it could be extra helpful during the coronavirus quarantine.

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW

Guest information for ‘Coronavirus Mental Heath App’ Podcast Episode

Dr. Alison Darcy is Founder and President of Woebot Labs, Inc.   Prior to Woebot, Alison was a Clinical Research Psychologist and adjunct Faculty in Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford School of Medicine. A specialist in digital treatment development, she has developed health technology for 15 years. 

    About The Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. To learn more about Gabe, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Coronavirus Mental Health App’ Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Psych Central Podcast, where guest experts in the field of psychology and mental health share thought-provoking information using plain, everyday language. Here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Welcome, everyone, to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Podcast. Calling into the show today we have Dr. Alison Darcy, who is the founder and president of Woebot Labs Incorporated. Prior to Woebot, Alison was a clinical research psychologist and adjunct faculty in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford School of Medicine. A specialist in digital treatment development, she has developed health technology for over 15 years. Alison, welcome to the show.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Thank you very much for having me.

Gabe Howard: Well, I am very excited to talk about Woebot. On your LinkedIn, this caught my eye. It says that you made a robot that makes people feel happier. Can you explain what that means?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Sure. Well, the robot is Woebot. It’s more like a robot character. Woebot really serves as a guide in what is fundamentally a self-directed emotional support program based on cognitive behavioral therapy. So the robot really is not a physical robot. It’s the robot character. That really came from, I think, our origins of making games. Initially we were making cognitive behavioral therapy themed games. And so when Woebot was “born,” he just kind of came out of the gate with a personality and a backstory. And that piece of it was a lot of fun.

Gabe Howard: So Woebot is an app,

Alison Darcy, PhD: That is correct.

Gabe Howard: It’s free, it’s available to download on Apple iTunes and Google Play stores, I’m assuming that they just search for Woebot.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Correct. Yes.

Gabe Howard: But, what’s it like? I mean, so they’ve downloaded the app, how do users interact with it and how do they use it? I guess what I’m really driving at is, you’ve got an app that sounds like it’s sort of doing therapy, but there’s not a person on the other end of it. So it’s just a very curious thing.

Alison Darcy, PhD: You know, it’s actually not as curious as it might sound. So there’s been a lot of apps that have created experiences that are aimed to help people with depression and anxiety. Right? Through cognitive behavioral therapy and in particular that approach is used a lot because it’s quite formulaic. Right? So it lends itself well to development in a digital kind of app based format. And so we have all of the elements there that you would expect to find in one of those programs, such as mood monitoring. Right? So basic checking in every day. How are you doing? What’s going on with your mood? And mood tracking, and there’s also the practice of skills, which in cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, as it’s known, involves challenging your thinking in situations where you’re having intense emotional experience about something, you know, either negative or anxious. And the more you challenge your thinking in those situations, the better you end up doing after all. So you’re sort of fighting against those negative automatic thoughts or the inner critic kind of experience that, you know, those of us who have intense emotional experiences will be familiar with. And so there’s a practicing skills piece and there’s other skills in there like mindfulness and behavioral experiments, which is just a fancy name for saying like doing things as an observer and doing things differently and experimenting. And then there’s also, you know, a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy has a lot of learning in it as well, there’s a lot of concepts that are not necessarily familiar. Woebot delivers all three of those things, but just through a conversation. So the experience is like literally a conversation with this friendly, quirky but warm robot character.

Gabe Howard: I don’t want to sound negative. So please don’t hear it that. It is curiosity, because my first reaction to hearing about Woebot is that it’s a chat bot. A chap bot can’t replace therapy, right? It can’t replace a therapist.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Mm-hmm.

Gabe Howard: I guess my question is, how do you feel that works? I just I’m sort of struggling with it, especially, you know, in the age of the Internet, when bots are and I’m making air

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Quotes, bots are often seen as like trolls and negative. And they’re looking for keywords to sell you advertising.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: And now here we are. And you’re like, no, no, no, my bot is warm and friendly and a robot character. And that’s kind of where I am. And like, can you explain that?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah, I totally agree with you, by the way. I mean, nobody’s ever going to replace therapy and nobody ever should. I think some people mistake things like Woebot as trying to replace therapy because the experience is delivered in a conversation. And when it’s just a conversation, it appears like, oh my God, this thing is trying to be a therapist. Right. But actually, it’s just a simpler way to kind of go about your day. We know that it’s good to kind of talk about things. Right. And get things off your chest when you’re in a difficult space. The apps that have come before Woebot were effectively asking people to kind of swipe through their problems, right? And click and engage in certain things. And it’s just not as easy as a conversation. And I think especially when you’re feeling low, I mean, I don’t know about you, but it’s my brain does not work as well. You know, it is just harder to navigate through complex things. And, yes. So a conversation is just a simplifying kind of way to go about getting information and practicing skills. And so I think about conversational like I think about chat bots as an interface. And our chat bot in particular is mostly scripted. And so what you’ll find is this conversational experience, but it’s not a true A.I. in that it is, you know, making things up as it goes along, for example, or not like the movie Her. You know, I think you’ll find the experience

Gabe Howard: Right. 

Alison Darcy, PhD: It’s just a lot more scripted. In fact, I think what people underestimate, like the amount of design that goes into crafting the things that Woebot says. It’s actually closer to, like a beautifully written choose your own adventure or self-help book, then it is a dystopian. Woebot is a robot character very intentionally because I think that was the one thing that we didn’t want people to mistake it for something that’s like human or pretending to be human. It is very clearly a fiction in terms of Woebot’s character. And so that people are really clear that there is no person behind this, because I think that’s part of what makes Woebot valuable as well, is that it’s you know, it’s just a chat bot. So it can see you on your worst day. You know, you can actually literally say anything to Woebot. And he very clearly does not understand or he’s not going to be offended. There is no person there. There’s no emotion there. And the experience is so much more mundane and friendly and warm and occasionally funny as well, because I do think humor is important.

Gabe Howard: How did you come up with the name of Woebot?

Alison Darcy, PhD: The name was pretty tongue in cheek, right? So it’s obviously woe, you tell it your woes. I recently find very early sketches of something from 2015. And I had sketched this cartoon character and I had said Mr. Woebot, and I just thought it was funny. But then I actually went on to I had a conversation with a subreddits moderator from the depression subreddits. And I kind of wanted to put feelers out there. And I was like listen, how do you think about this name? And actually, he said, listen, I love it. I think it’s hilarious. I am so tired of all those apps for depression that are like these like super happy names. And he’s like, have you ever met somebody with depression? Like, I think this is much funnier. So it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek. The problem with it is that non-native English speakers just have no idea about the pun so.

Gabe Howard: That makes sense.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Well, what are you going to do?

Gabe Howard: Yeah. You know, I think it’s interesting that you pointed out that, you know, people who live with depression, you know, I live with bipolar disorder. So depression is obviously a big part of that. I get so frustrated is probably the right word that everything designed to help me always has these like touchy feely, flowery, huggy names. And I’m like, I don’t relate

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right.

Gabe Howard: To any of this now. You know, your logo is sunshine and flowers. And I don’t relate to that. And they’re like, oh, you want my logo to be like a storm with somebody soaking wet? And I’m like, no, no, that wouldn’t be cool either.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Not either. Yeah, right. Right.

Gabe Howard: It sort of reminds me of like a therapy version of, say, Amazon.com’s chat, customer service. When you first go into Amazon’s customer service, little chat thing, it tells you that it’s not a person and you type in what problem you’re having and it gives you some choices and it asks you if any of those are right. And then eventually, if the automated system can’t guide you to the right place, it asks you if you want to chat with an associate. Now, to be clear, Woebot never gets to the point where it can recommend or send you to an associate. It’s 100 percent virtual for lack of a better term, but it sounds like it’s based on the same technology, right? It looks for keywords and it gives you ideas. And it’s. Is that like a very simplistic way to describe it?

Alison Darcy, PhD: That’s exactly right. Like instead of you selecting something from a menu, it just allows you to describe what’s going on in natural language and then it understands. OK. It’s sort of like, so, you know, your boss is an idiot. Is this a relationship problem that we’re dealing with? And that’s the kind of interaction that Woebot will have. So it’s asking you, it’s sort of like this is how I’m understanding what you’re saying. Is that true? And if that is true, OK, here are some ways that we can go about this. And if you want if indeed you want my help with this or maybe you just want to tell me what an idiot your boss is. And that’s OK as well. And literally that is how the conversation goes. This is a sort of a way of interacting with technology that feels a lot more natural to us. When you need help, right, you just want to be able to say what’s going on and say it really simply. And then and be understood and be heard. Woebot is not pretending to be more intelligent, I think, than he actually is. And that’s really important for us as well. It is important that like he clearly outlines the barriers and the limitations of understanding. But I’ve always had this theory that a really good cognitive behavioral therapist in particular should not become like part of your process.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right. I always felt like there isn’t any particular magic there per se. We just one of the beautiful things about CBT that I love is that it’s actually so empowering as an approach because it’s saying like you have the skills to figure this out. I’m just going to ask you the right question. And I think that’s the magic about Woebot. Woebot is going to ask you the right questions. But ultimately, it’s you who has to do the work still. Right? Like you still have to be sharing what the negative automatic thoughts are. You still have to see if there are distortions in those parts. And then you are the one that’s still going to have to do the work of reframing those thoughts and writing them down and writing them out. But so Woebot is a guide that facilitates that process. But the beautiful thing is it’s really clear. It’s still on you. Right? And I think that’s a much more empowering than this kind of I have all of the answers and I will diagnose you or I will treat you quote-unquote treat you right like this is very clearly a self-directed program.

Gabe Howard: Well, that’s really cool, one of the things that you keep saying is that you say to Woebot. You tell Woebot. Is this something that you have to type in or can you literally talk to Woebot?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right now, no, it is just typing, it’s typing and there’s a reason for that, too. I mean, we often get asked why and there’s a couple of reasons why we haven’t made a voice version of Woebot. One is it’s just more complex and there are privacy things about a voice booming out of a space that you can’t control. Right. But mostly you’ll see this even in a therapist’s office when you’re doing CBT. Often you are writing things down on a piece of paper and there’s a reason for that. Writing down your negative thoughts is a process that we call externalization. You’re literally getting it out of your head and when you see that part written down. Looking back at you, it’s kind of shocking. It’s like, oh, wow, that’s in my head. That’s really interesting. And so there’s value in that process of externalization, which is really just getting it done and seeing that part in front of you. And because once it’s out of your head, then you can do something with it and you can actually challenge it. You know, it becomes external and it becomes something that you can challenge in a way that ultimately can help you feel better when you realize, wow, I’ve been walking around with this assumption all the time and it’s actually not 100 percent true.

Gabe Howard: We’ll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Sponsor Message: Hey folks, Gabe here. I host another podcast for Psych Central. It’s called Not Crazy. He hosts Not Crazy with me, Jackie Zimmerman, and it is all about navigating our lives with mental illness and mental health concerns. Listen now at Psych Central.com/NotCrazy or on your favorite podcast player.

Sponsor Message: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe Howard: We’re back discussing the mental health app Woebot with Dr. Alison Darcy. Let’s shift gears a little bit, because in this day and age right now, everything is going to devolve into let’s talk about the pandemic.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Let’s talk about COVID-19. Let’s talk about quarantine. The COVID-19 outbreak has just caused an incredible mental health issue. Really, just across the nation and across the world, people are dealing with fear, displacement, loss of jobs, trauma and grief, because this is big. I can’t imagine that when you were inventing Woebot, you thought, hmm, I wonder if this will work for an international pandemic?

Alison Darcy, PhD: That’s right. Now, I mean. Well, the CBT purist in me wants to say that, like, these tools are useful across the board. And I think that’s important to say because I think people often mistake something like CBT is like, oh, this is just you’re teaching people positive thinking skills, right? Like let’s reframe this as something positive. And that is absolutely not what it’s about. It is actually about disentangling the really distressing thoughts that are distorted versions of reality from what reality is. So it’s about keeping grounded so that you can face the challenges that are very real in front of you. Right. So, for example, people often say, well, what? You know what? If you have somebody who’s actually like you’ve got a terminal illness, they can actually still have distorted thoughts. They can still have thoughts like, oh, my family’s never going to recover from this. I have destroyed my family’s life by having this terminal illness. But when you kind of sit down and challenge that, it’s like, is that true? And they can really start to think about. No, actually, my family might eventually they will move on. And this is an unfortunate part of life. So that’s just one caveat about when we talk about a pandemic. But at the same time, this is completely unprecedented in my lifetime. What’s also interesting is like, as you said, this is global. Everybody is going through the same thing, which is just something I’ve never personally ever seen.

Alison Darcy, PhD: You know, I’m thinking about this is my advice for myself as well. Right. There’s a piece of this that we can tap into as a collective population that it is something that we are all going through. And yes, we all deal with things really differently. And so I want to be careful about the advice of like just reach out. You know, if you’re upset, you know, talk to someone because reaching out is not often that easy for people. I mean, that is one of the key premises in which we were building Woebot was a part of being accessible is about being emotionally accessible. And I think one of the things that we have seen is that it’s just really hard for some groups of people to reach items and talk about how they’re feeling with other people. And yes, if you were ever considering it at any point in your lifetime, now is the time because the person that you are talking to is going through the same thing. So reach out if you can. And then the second thing is just all of us really have to just do the things that we can do and that really varies for everybody. You know, personally, one of the things that really keeps me balanced is just being able to go out and go for a walk occasionally. And that is not possible now. And so, like, what are the things that I can do really in my life now? Like, what are the things that are available to me, even if they just sound ridiculously insignificant to somebody else? You know, I have a little routine in the morning.

Alison Darcy, PhD: I have like I make my little cup of tea, which is almost like a meditation for me, for someone who can’t meditate. Going outside. I have absolutely. I’m one of those people that have started gardening. I have a small deck. And that is the extent of my gardening space. But I tend to them every day because that is a little routine that kind of keeps me sane and keeps me present. And I think that’s the same for everybody. We all have to figure out what are the tiniest things that we can do right now that actually keep us grounded. To be able to face the storm that is ahead. And it’s not about denying that reality. It’s about helping ourselves be the best that we can be to deal with this. Right. And sort of disentangling the negative emotions that come along with, you know, even losing a job. People can feel like really guilty, even though it’s nothing to do with ourselves. Like an awful lot of those feelings that make it really hard for us to navigate through these difficult periods. And so if there are tools out there and there are things out there or people out there that you can rely on to keep you grounded. I think that’s the best advice in order to be able to face challenges that are very real.

Gabe Howard: Swinging back to Woebot. Do you believe that Woebot can help with COVID-19 stress? And I understand that you’ve even added some features to make sure that it can help.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah, it has. We’ve launched a program of content. You know, this is another piece. I think that we’re so fortunate to be in a position to have been able to focus our attention as a company and everyone in the company on something that was meaningful, meaningful to us and to everybody we love. And potentially the world. Right. So I think of this as a real gift for us. But also a lesson in getting through a pandemic is if you have meaningful work to do, it really, really helps. We launched our COVID-19 program of content on March 17th and we came together as a group and said stress testing the principles of CBT. Should be that those the tools that we have in Woebot, that Woebot is delivering should still work for this environment. Right. But what other things do we need to build out and think about? And one of the things as we thought through was do we really want to provide more information about coronavirus in an environment where we’re actually pretty inundated by news media articles? And then we said, you know what? Probably not. So when someone reaches out to Woebot in a good mood or like they feel OK, they’re kind of managing, but they’re not reaching out in a moment of distress.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Let’s give some things that are thought provoking, lifting spirits and just keeping people grounded. So we built I just think the most beautiful lessons, we call them lessons but they’re really stories, that cover things from ideas for staving off cabin fever or ideas for reaching out to people electronically when it feels weird to a study about chickens. And that’s called Chicken Study for the Soul. And it’s about a couple of chickens that were investigated. One chicken is given a fright and how the other chicken responds. And really the kind of learning therein is about the effect of us showing up in a certain emotional state on other people and the effect that other people’s emotional state has on us and how that’s reciprocal. But we also built on some of the core foundational pieces that we have in regards to grief and financial worry. So we do have some tools in there for decision making, for example, and just a really nice program of content for processing grief that is based on interpersonal therapy, which has some really nice evidence based tools, but it’s really about Woebot sort of inviting the person to kind of process the grief at this time.

Gabe Howard: Well, I think that is incredible. We’re so close to being out of time. I just want to ask a couple of questions to reassure listeners. What’s your approach to user information and privacy? Because some of this is in fact, arguably most of this would be confidential health information. I’m sure that nobody wants to download an app, say that their boss is an idiot and then have that end up on the Internet. Yeah.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. That is a great one. So, all of the data that we see is completely de-identified. And when people register, we ask for an email address so that if they change devices or lose their phone, they can kind of pick up where they left off in a program. But that email is kept separate to the conversational data. So basically what I’m saying is anything that you say to Woebot cannot actually be traced back. Yeah, we’re HIPPA compliant. We’re actually GDPR compliant as well. I mean, we’re a bunch of psychologists who really believe in a trustworthy place for people to be able to share what’s on their minds in a confidential and anonymous way.

Gabe Howard: Well, Alison, I love that. Can you tell our listeners where to find Woebot and everything that they need to know? I’m assuming that you have a Web site?

Alison Darcy, PhD: We do, it’s Woebot.io.  W O E B O T dot I O. And actually on the Web site, you’ll get a flavor for what Woebot does. There’s a little Web widget there that I’m proud to say is part of our coronavirus initiative. We actually it’s been translated into Italian now for integration into the Italian Health Ministry’s Web site. But you can get a flavor of like what a tool looks like through that and you can download Woebot for free in the Google Play or iOS iTunes Store.

Gabe Howard: Alison, thank you so much for being here and thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. Please subscribe, rank and review our podcast. When you share us on social media, use your words. Tell people why they like it. And hey, don’t be afraid to tag your friends. And remember, you can get one week of free, convenient, affordable, private online counseling anytime, anywhere, simply by visiting BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral. We will see everyone next week.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to The Psych Central Podcast. Want your audience to be wowed at your next event? Feature an appearance and LIVE RECORDING of the Psych Central Podcast right from your stage! For more details, or to book an event, please email us at show@psychcentral.com. Previous episodes can be found at PsychCentral.com/Show or on your favorite podcast player. Psych Central is the internet’s oldest and largest independent mental health website run by mental health professionals. Overseen by Dr. John Grohol, Psych Central offers trusted resources and quizzes to help answer your questions about mental health, personality, psychotherapy, and more. Please visit us today at PsychCentral.com.  To learn more about our host, Gabe Howard, please visit his website at gabehoward.com. Thank you for listening and please share with your friends, family, and followers.

  Podcast: Surviving Coronavirus Using a Free Mental Health App syndicated from

[positivepsychologyinterventions]

Podcast: Surviving Coronavirus Using a Free Mental Health App



Do you ever wish you had an always-available friend to confide in?  One who never got tired of hearing your woes? How about a non-judgmental robot who only gives the best advice based on cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT)? Well, now you’re in luck! Let us introduce you to Woebot, a robot character who helps you identify your distorted thinking. In today’s podcast, Gabe interviews the founder and president of Woebot Labs, Inc, Dr. Alison Darcy, who shares how Woebot came to be and how he can help people with mental health problems.

Intrigued? Tune in to hear how a therapy robot actually works and why it could be extra helpful during the coronavirus quarantine.

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Guest information for ‘Coronavirus Mental Heath App’ Podcast Episode

Dr. Alison Darcy is Founder and President of Woebot Labs, Inc.   Prior to Woebot, Alison was a Clinical Research Psychologist and adjunct Faculty in Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford School of Medicine. A specialist in digital treatment development, she has developed health technology for 15 years. 

    About The Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. To learn more about Gabe, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Coronavirus Mental Health App’ Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Psych Central Podcast, where guest experts in the field of psychology and mental health share thought-provoking information using plain, everyday language. Here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Welcome, everyone, to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Podcast. Calling into the show today we have Dr. Alison Darcy, who is the founder and president of Woebot Labs Incorporated. Prior to Woebot, Alison was a clinical research psychologist and adjunct faculty in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford School of Medicine. A specialist in digital treatment development, she has developed health technology for over 15 years. Alison, welcome to the show.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Thank you very much for having me.

Gabe Howard: Well, I am very excited to talk about Woebot. On your LinkedIn, this caught my eye. It says that you made a robot that makes people feel happier. Can you explain what that means?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Sure. Well, the robot is Woebot. It’s more like a robot character. Woebot really serves as a guide in what is fundamentally a self-directed emotional support program based on cognitive behavioral therapy. So the robot really is not a physical robot. It’s the robot character. That really came from, I think, our origins of making games. Initially we were making cognitive behavioral therapy themed games. And so when Woebot was “born,” he just kind of came out of the gate with a personality and a backstory. And that piece of it was a lot of fun.

Gabe Howard: So Woebot is an app,

Alison Darcy, PhD: That is correct.

Gabe Howard: It’s free, it’s available to download on Apple iTunes and Google Play stores, I’m assuming that they just search for Woebot.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Correct. Yes.

Gabe Howard: But, what’s it like? I mean, so they’ve downloaded the app, how do users interact with it and how do they use it? I guess what I’m really driving at is, you’ve got an app that sounds like it’s sort of doing therapy, but there’s not a person on the other end of it. So it’s just a very curious thing.

Alison Darcy, PhD: You know, it’s actually not as curious as it might sound. So there’s been a lot of apps that have created experiences that are aimed to help people with depression and anxiety. Right? Through cognitive behavioral therapy and in particular that approach is used a lot because it’s quite formulaic. Right? So it lends itself well to development in a digital kind of app based format. And so we have all of the elements there that you would expect to find in one of those programs, such as mood monitoring. Right? So basic checking in every day. How are you doing? What’s going on with your mood? And mood tracking, and there’s also the practice of skills, which in cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, as it’s known, involves challenging your thinking in situations where you’re having intense emotional experience about something, you know, either negative or anxious. And the more you challenge your thinking in those situations, the better you end up doing after all. So you’re sort of fighting against those negative automatic thoughts or the inner critic kind of experience that, you know, those of us who have intense emotional experiences will be familiar with. And so there’s a practicing skills piece and there’s other skills in there like mindfulness and behavioral experiments, which is just a fancy name for saying like doing things as an observer and doing things differently and experimenting. And then there’s also, you know, a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy has a lot of learning in it as well, there’s a lot of concepts that are not necessarily familiar. Woebot delivers all three of those things, but just through a conversation. So the experience is like literally a conversation with this friendly, quirky but warm robot character.

Gabe Howard: I don’t want to sound negative. So please don’t hear it that. It is curiosity, because my first reaction to hearing about Woebot is that it’s a chat bot. A chap bot can’t replace therapy, right? It can’t replace a therapist.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Mm-hmm.

Gabe Howard: I guess my question is, how do you feel that works? I just I’m sort of struggling with it, especially, you know, in the age of the Internet, when bots are and I’m making air

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Quotes, bots are often seen as like trolls and negative. And they’re looking for keywords to sell you advertising.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: And now here we are. And you’re like, no, no, no, my bot is warm and friendly and a robot character. And that’s kind of where I am. And like, can you explain that?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah, I totally agree with you, by the way. I mean, nobody’s ever going to replace therapy and nobody ever should. I think some people mistake things like Woebot as trying to replace therapy because the experience is delivered in a conversation. And when it’s just a conversation, it appears like, oh my God, this thing is trying to be a therapist. Right. But actually, it’s just a simpler way to kind of go about your day. We know that it’s good to kind of talk about things. Right. And get things off your chest when you’re in a difficult space. The apps that have come before Woebot were effectively asking people to kind of swipe through their problems, right? And click and engage in certain things. And it’s just not as easy as a conversation. And I think especially when you’re feeling low, I mean, I don’t know about you, but it’s my brain does not work as well. You know, it is just harder to navigate through complex things. And, yes. So a conversation is just a simplifying kind of way to go about getting information and practicing skills. And so I think about conversational like I think about chat bots as an interface. And our chat bot in particular is mostly scripted. And so what you’ll find is this conversational experience, but it’s not a true A.I. in that it is, you know, making things up as it goes along, for example, or not like the movie Her. You know, I think you’ll find the experience

Gabe Howard: Right. 

Alison Darcy, PhD: It’s just a lot more scripted. In fact, I think what people underestimate, like the amount of design that goes into crafting the things that Woebot says. It’s actually closer to, like a beautifully written choose your own adventure or self-help book, then it is a dystopian. Woebot is a robot character very intentionally because I think that was the one thing that we didn’t want people to mistake it for something that’s like human or pretending to be human. It is very clearly a fiction in terms of Woebot’s character. And so that people are really clear that there is no person behind this, because I think that’s part of what makes Woebot valuable as well, is that it’s you know, it’s just a chat bot. So it can see you on your worst day. You know, you can actually literally say anything to Woebot. And he very clearly does not understand or he’s not going to be offended. There is no person there. There’s no emotion there. And the experience is so much more mundane and friendly and warm and occasionally funny as well, because I do think humor is important.

Gabe Howard: How did you come up with the name of Woebot?

Alison Darcy, PhD: The name was pretty tongue in cheek, right? So it’s obviously woe, you tell it your woes. I recently find very early sketches of something from 2015. And I had sketched this cartoon character and I had said Mr. Woebot, and I just thought it was funny. But then I actually went on to I had a conversation with a subreddits moderator from the depression subreddits. And I kind of wanted to put feelers out there. And I was like listen, how do you think about this name? And actually, he said, listen, I love it. I think it’s hilarious. I am so tired of all those apps for depression that are like these like super happy names. And he’s like, have you ever met somebody with depression? Like, I think this is much funnier. So it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek. The problem with it is that non-native English speakers just have no idea about the pun so.

Gabe Howard: That makes sense.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Well, what are you going to do?

Gabe Howard: Yeah. You know, I think it’s interesting that you pointed out that, you know, people who live with depression, you know, I live with bipolar disorder. So depression is obviously a big part of that. I get so frustrated is probably the right word that everything designed to help me always has these like touchy feely, flowery, huggy names. And I’m like, I don’t relate

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right.

Gabe Howard: To any of this now. You know, your logo is sunshine and flowers. And I don’t relate to that. And they’re like, oh, you want my logo to be like a storm with somebody soaking wet? And I’m like, no, no, that wouldn’t be cool either.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Not either. Yeah, right. Right.

Gabe Howard: It sort of reminds me of like a therapy version of, say, Amazon.com’s chat, customer service. When you first go into Amazon’s customer service, little chat thing, it tells you that it’s not a person and you type in what problem you’re having and it gives you some choices and it asks you if any of those are right. And then eventually, if the automated system can’t guide you to the right place, it asks you if you want to chat with an associate. Now, to be clear, Woebot never gets to the point where it can recommend or send you to an associate. It’s 100 percent virtual for lack of a better term, but it sounds like it’s based on the same technology, right? It looks for keywords and it gives you ideas. And it’s. Is that like a very simplistic way to describe it?

Alison Darcy, PhD: That’s exactly right. Like instead of you selecting something from a menu, it just allows you to describe what’s going on in natural language and then it understands. OK. It’s sort of like, so, you know, your boss is an idiot. Is this a relationship problem that we’re dealing with? And that’s the kind of interaction that Woebot will have. So it’s asking you, it’s sort of like this is how I’m understanding what you’re saying. Is that true? And if that is true, OK, here are some ways that we can go about this. And if you want if indeed you want my help with this or maybe you just want to tell me what an idiot your boss is. And that’s OK as well. And literally that is how the conversation goes. This is a sort of a way of interacting with technology that feels a lot more natural to us. When you need help, right, you just want to be able to say what’s going on and say it really simply. And then and be understood and be heard. Woebot is not pretending to be more intelligent, I think, than he actually is. And that’s really important for us as well. It is important that like he clearly outlines the barriers and the limitations of understanding. But I’ve always had this theory that a really good cognitive behavioral therapist in particular should not become like part of your process.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right. I always felt like there isn’t any particular magic there per se. We just one of the beautiful things about CBT that I love is that it’s actually so empowering as an approach because it’s saying like you have the skills to figure this out. I’m just going to ask you the right question. And I think that’s the magic about Woebot. Woebot is going to ask you the right questions. But ultimately, it’s you who has to do the work still. Right? Like you still have to be sharing what the negative automatic thoughts are. You still have to see if there are distortions in those parts. And then you are the one that’s still going to have to do the work of reframing those thoughts and writing them down and writing them out. But so Woebot is a guide that facilitates that process. But the beautiful thing is it’s really clear. It’s still on you. Right? And I think that’s a much more empowering than this kind of I have all of the answers and I will diagnose you or I will treat you quote-unquote treat you right like this is very clearly a self-directed program.

Gabe Howard: Well, that’s really cool, one of the things that you keep saying is that you say to Woebot. You tell Woebot. Is this something that you have to type in or can you literally talk to Woebot?

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right now, no, it is just typing, it’s typing and there’s a reason for that, too. I mean, we often get asked why and there’s a couple of reasons why we haven’t made a voice version of Woebot. One is it’s just more complex and there are privacy things about a voice booming out of a space that you can’t control. Right. But mostly you’ll see this even in a therapist’s office when you’re doing CBT. Often you are writing things down on a piece of paper and there’s a reason for that. Writing down your negative thoughts is a process that we call externalization. You’re literally getting it out of your head and when you see that part written down. Looking back at you, it’s kind of shocking. It’s like, oh, wow, that’s in my head. That’s really interesting. And so there’s value in that process of externalization, which is really just getting it done and seeing that part in front of you. And because once it’s out of your head, then you can do something with it and you can actually challenge it. You know, it becomes external and it becomes something that you can challenge in a way that ultimately can help you feel better when you realize, wow, I’ve been walking around with this assumption all the time and it’s actually not 100 percent true.

Gabe Howard: We’ll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Sponsor Message: Hey folks, Gabe here. I host another podcast for Psych Central. It’s called Not Crazy. He hosts Not Crazy with me, Jackie Zimmerman, and it is all about navigating our lives with mental illness and mental health concerns. Listen now at Psych Central.com/NotCrazy or on your favorite podcast player.

Sponsor Message: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe Howard: We’re back discussing the mental health app Woebot with Dr. Alison Darcy. Let’s shift gears a little bit, because in this day and age right now, everything is going to devolve into let’s talk about the pandemic.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Let’s talk about COVID-19. Let’s talk about quarantine. The COVID-19 outbreak has just caused an incredible mental health issue. Really, just across the nation and across the world, people are dealing with fear, displacement, loss of jobs, trauma and grief, because this is big. I can’t imagine that when you were inventing Woebot, you thought, hmm, I wonder if this will work for an international pandemic?

Alison Darcy, PhD: That’s right. Now, I mean. Well, the CBT purist in me wants to say that, like, these tools are useful across the board. And I think that’s important to say because I think people often mistake something like CBT is like, oh, this is just you’re teaching people positive thinking skills, right? Like let’s reframe this as something positive. And that is absolutely not what it’s about. It is actually about disentangling the really distressing thoughts that are distorted versions of reality from what reality is. So it’s about keeping grounded so that you can face the challenges that are very real in front of you. Right. So, for example, people often say, well, what? You know what? If you have somebody who’s actually like you’ve got a terminal illness, they can actually still have distorted thoughts. They can still have thoughts like, oh, my family’s never going to recover from this. I have destroyed my family’s life by having this terminal illness. But when you kind of sit down and challenge that, it’s like, is that true? And they can really start to think about. No, actually, my family might eventually they will move on. And this is an unfortunate part of life. So that’s just one caveat about when we talk about a pandemic. But at the same time, this is completely unprecedented in my lifetime. What’s also interesting is like, as you said, this is global. Everybody is going through the same thing, which is just something I’ve never personally ever seen.

Alison Darcy, PhD: You know, I’m thinking about this is my advice for myself as well. Right. There’s a piece of this that we can tap into as a collective population that it is something that we are all going through. And yes, we all deal with things really differently. And so I want to be careful about the advice of like just reach out. You know, if you’re upset, you know, talk to someone because reaching out is not often that easy for people. I mean, that is one of the key premises in which we were building Woebot was a part of being accessible is about being emotionally accessible. And I think one of the things that we have seen is that it’s just really hard for some groups of people to reach items and talk about how they’re feeling with other people. And yes, if you were ever considering it at any point in your lifetime, now is the time because the person that you are talking to is going through the same thing. So reach out if you can. And then the second thing is just all of us really have to just do the things that we can do and that really varies for everybody. You know, personally, one of the things that really keeps me balanced is just being able to go out and go for a walk occasionally. And that is not possible now. And so, like, what are the things that I can do really in my life now? Like, what are the things that are available to me, even if they just sound ridiculously insignificant to somebody else? You know, I have a little routine in the morning.

Alison Darcy, PhD: I have like I make my little cup of tea, which is almost like a meditation for me, for someone who can’t meditate. Going outside. I have absolutely. I’m one of those people that have started gardening. I have a small deck. And that is the extent of my gardening space. But I tend to them every day because that is a little routine that kind of keeps me sane and keeps me present. And I think that’s the same for everybody. We all have to figure out what are the tiniest things that we can do right now that actually keep us grounded. To be able to face the storm that is ahead. And it’s not about denying that reality. It’s about helping ourselves be the best that we can be to deal with this. Right. And sort of disentangling the negative emotions that come along with, you know, even losing a job. People can feel like really guilty, even though it’s nothing to do with ourselves. Like an awful lot of those feelings that make it really hard for us to navigate through these difficult periods. And so if there are tools out there and there are things out there or people out there that you can rely on to keep you grounded. I think that’s the best advice in order to be able to face challenges that are very real.

Gabe Howard: Swinging back to Woebot. Do you believe that Woebot can help with COVID-19 stress? And I understand that you’ve even added some features to make sure that it can help.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Yeah, it has. We’ve launched a program of content. You know, this is another piece. I think that we’re so fortunate to be in a position to have been able to focus our attention as a company and everyone in the company on something that was meaningful, meaningful to us and to everybody we love. And potentially the world. Right. So I think of this as a real gift for us. But also a lesson in getting through a pandemic is if you have meaningful work to do, it really, really helps. We launched our COVID-19 program of content on March 17th and we came together as a group and said stress testing the principles of CBT. Should be that those the tools that we have in Woebot, that Woebot is delivering should still work for this environment. Right. But what other things do we need to build out and think about? And one of the things as we thought through was do we really want to provide more information about coronavirus in an environment where we’re actually pretty inundated by news media articles? And then we said, you know what? Probably not. So when someone reaches out to Woebot in a good mood or like they feel OK, they’re kind of managing, but they’re not reaching out in a moment of distress.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Let’s give some things that are thought provoking, lifting spirits and just keeping people grounded. So we built I just think the most beautiful lessons, we call them lessons but they’re really stories, that cover things from ideas for staving off cabin fever or ideas for reaching out to people electronically when it feels weird to a study about chickens. And that’s called Chicken Study for the Soul. And it’s about a couple of chickens that were investigated. One chicken is given a fright and how the other chicken responds. And really the kind of learning therein is about the effect of us showing up in a certain emotional state on other people and the effect that other people’s emotional state has on us and how that’s reciprocal. But we also built on some of the core foundational pieces that we have in regards to grief and financial worry. So we do have some tools in there for decision making, for example, and just a really nice program of content for processing grief that is based on interpersonal therapy, which has some really nice evidence based tools, but it’s really about Woebot sort of inviting the person to kind of process the grief at this time.

Gabe Howard: Well, I think that is incredible. We’re so close to being out of time. I just want to ask a couple of questions to reassure listeners. What’s your approach to user information and privacy? Because some of this is in fact, arguably most of this would be confidential health information. I’m sure that nobody wants to download an app, say that their boss is an idiot and then have that end up on the Internet. Yeah.

Alison Darcy, PhD: Right. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. That is a great one. So, all of the data that we see is completely de-identified. And when people register, we ask for an email address so that if they change devices or lose their phone, they can kind of pick up where they left off in a program. But that email is kept separate to the conversational data. So basically what I’m saying is anything that you say to Woebot cannot actually be traced back. Yeah, we’re HIPPA compliant. We’re actually GDPR compliant as well. I mean, we’re a bunch of psychologists who really believe in a trustworthy place for people to be able to share what’s on their minds in a confidential and anonymous way.

Gabe Howard: Well, Alison, I love that. Can you tell our listeners where to find Woebot and everything that they need to know? I’m assuming that you have a Web site?

Alison Darcy, PhD: We do, it’s Woebot.io.  W O E B O T dot I O. And actually on the Web site, you’ll get a flavor for what Woebot does. There’s a little Web widget there that I’m proud to say is part of our coronavirus initiative. We actually it’s been translated into Italian now for integration into the Italian Health Ministry’s Web site. But you can get a flavor of like what a tool looks like through that and you can download Woebot for free in the Google Play or iOS iTunes Store.

Gabe Howard: Alison, thank you so much for being here and thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. Please subscribe, rank and review our podcast. When you share us on social media, use your words. Tell people why they like it. And hey, don’t be afraid to tag your friends. And remember, you can get one week of free, convenient, affordable, private online counseling anytime, anywhere, simply by visiting BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral. We will see everyone next week.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to The Psych Central Podcast. Want your audience to be wowed at your next event? Feature an appearance and LIVE RECORDING of the Psych Central Podcast right from your stage! For more details, or to book an event, please email us at show@psychcentral.com. Previous episodes can be found at PsychCentral.com/Show or on your favorite podcast player. Psych Central is the internet’s oldest and largest independent mental health website run by mental health professionals. Overseen by Dr. John Grohol, Psych Central offers trusted resources and quizzes to help answer your questions about mental health, personality, psychotherapy, and more. Please visit us today at PsychCentral.com.  To learn more about our host, Gabe Howard, please visit his website at gabehoward.com. Thank you for listening and please share with your friends, family, and followers.

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