#tnwg overanalyses

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it’s genuinely so confusing how many people hate shiv.

also: I’M NOT ACCUSING ANYONE OF ANYTHING !! this isn’t aimed at anyone or anything in particular. just having some Thoughts…

i’m not talking about the way we hate succession characters bc they’re terrible people. i mean, after accepting the premise that these are horrible people with screwed up worldviews, there is still so much shiv hate.

and i’m specifically talking about tomgreg lovers who hate shiv. clearly, i adore tomgreg with my whole heart - but there is no way that i would ever consider hating shiv.

i feel like understanding how tragic the tomshiv relationship is kinda fundamental to shipping tomgreg ?

tom and shiv do have love for one another, but they can’t love each other correctly. tom grew up with a clear, traditional example of romantic love through his parents’ marriage. shiv had the complete opposite experience, where being vulnerable - esp with expressing love - was a big no no.

if you ship tom and greg, a lot of it involves seeing that they possess the qualities that the other requires in a relationship. for example, tom is trapped in a marriage where his understanding of romantic love is incompatible with shiv’s. it’s not that shiv doesn’t love tom, or is horrible to him - it’s that they don’t fit together in that way. greg, being ignored for basically his whole like, seeks the validation that tom gives him in the show- and not just that, he responds to tom’s affections in kind.

so yeah, the shiv hate (in relation to tomgreg) is weird.

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the three acts of the ‘nero & sporus’ scene

i just rewatched the nero & sporus scene for like the hundredth time and i have thoughts

within itself, the scene has what are essentially three micro-acts:

i. “let’s game it out”

ii. “what do you know about nero and sporus?

iii. “let’s fight like chickens”

the first act is set in motion by tom’s goal of applying the thumb screws to greg.

tom visits greg apparently holding the power- he is in a position to control greg and get him to sign the jda. he does so by attempting to strategise with greg about how greg can land a gig at parks, as he sees himself as a mentor for greg with these things. 

however, it soon becomes apparent that greg has already figured out exactly what he needs to ask for:

TOM: So, I guess you've already gamed it.

tom is clearly taken aback by greg’s show of strategic prowess. tom sees his place in this dynamic as the boss/possessor of power. this gives him a sense of control over greg - his knowledge and experience positioned him as someone greg needed. in this way, greg simultaneously functioned as a display of tom’s authority, as well as a friend/confidant. 

greg does genuinely thank tom for his willingness to help him, but he doesn’t need tom’s advice anymore. tom is left questioning both his level of power and his place in greg’s life.

the second act shows tom starting to reckon with these notions, causing him to dictate a narrative that establishes his place in greg’s life.

tom immediately seeks to regain some semblance of power by harkening to a story that greg did not know:

TOM: Sporus was a young slave boy. He was Nero’s favourite.

for the purposes of this post, let’s focus not on the prophetic nature of the story, but rather what it says about tom’s perception of greg. firstly, the comparison to a “young slave boy” further re-establishes the power that tom feel like he should have over greg. 

more importantly, we know that tom sees himself as nero, and greg as sporus - so when he says that sporus was “nero’s favourite”, he is clearly telling greg that he is important in tom’s life. tom is covertly telling greg that they need each other, for any number of reasons. 

it explains why greg is absurdly accepting of tom’s confession:

TOM: I’d castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat.

greg is not weirded out by the objectively insane thing tom has just told him, because he understands what tom is saying - he gets the feeling that tom is making a promise to him. tom is being highly vulnerable in this moment, and greg can see that - it’s why he asks: 

GREG: Are you okay, Tom?

tom realises that greg has seen his moment of weakness, and feels somewhat threatened by it.

the final act shows a flashpoint of tom’s anxieties about prison and his personal & professional vulnerability.

tom switches the tone of the interaction from vaguely tender to completely insane in a matter of seconds, when he says:

TOM: See if you can wrestle me into the ground, Greg.

on the surface, this is tom being tom - obnoxious, strange, menacingly playful (note: this also does play into the imagery of ‘the mad emperor nero’, which speaks further to how tom perceives himself and greg and nero and sporus). however, this proposal actually acts as a mechanism through which tom’s true thoughts about his situation are revealed.

GREG: I don't wanna do it! 

TOM: (mockingly) "I don't wanna do it! I don't wanna do it! I don't wanna do it!" Neither do I, Greg

tom isn’t talking about play-fighting when he cries “neither do i, greg”. tom is talking about going to prison. tom is between a rock and a hard place. he volunteered himself to go to jail, but that doesn’t mean he wants it to happen.

and what of the alternative? losing any leverage he has with logan, and existing in a marriage that is draining him. tom can’t see a way out, and everything in his life is shifting beyond his control. he doesn’t want to lose what little power he feels he has left. 

so, when greg shuts him down, tom reverts to roy-style mockery to build some sort of shield around himself.

TOM: It was a joke, you idiot. You're so hard to riff with. I mean that is a big career obstacle right there for you.

tom attacks greg’s ‘lack of humour’ as a potential hurdle for his success. here he is trying to diminish greg in order to show him that he still has control- that greg still needs him to guide his career. 

in one last show of chaotic defiance of his situation, tom knocks over the coat stand in greg’s office and storms out.

this scene is a culmination of all the pressures that tom is experiencing in the middle of the third season. 

he thinks he is going to prison. his marriage is in a shambles. he thinks his only true confidant/friend/??? doesn’t need him anymore. he’s weaker than he has ever been, and he has no idea where he is going to end up. so, achieves three goals in this interaction. 

1. he brings greg back to waystar

2. he strengthens the bond between himself and greg

3. he tries to regain control over his situation

this scene reinforces tom’s arc across the season, including his strengthening relationship with greg, and his betrayal of shiv in the finale. it is clear that tom appears to be over-confident, but is ultimately vulnerable - a testament to the complexity and depth of his character.

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greg is almost definitely oblivious to how tom sees their relationship but we absolutely cannot blame the boy. tom is the absolute queen of mixed signals. every tomgreg interaction has at least one moment where it flips 180 and it’s always because tom malfunctions.

literally like their first real interaction was “would you kiss me ? … i’m JOKING”

the scene in the hospital where tom makes fun of greg for thinking they were talking about him, and then telling greg that he’d help him get a job

tom asking greg to Commit A Crime on thanksgiving but then gently guiding greg out of the door with a hand on his back

on the yacht, teasing greg for having a preference with the rosé after having spent two whole seasons teaching greg about how to be rich. same as the “mineral water critic” thing

the diner scene (my love), with tom being crude about the omelette and then accepting greg’s “bauble” as if greg hadn’t just asked him to do something insane

the nero & sporus scene, where tom says he’d marry greg and then proceeds to get upset when greg doesn’t physically fight him

the entire “is it real?” scene bc he trashed greg’s whole office and then softly kisses him on the forehead

at kendall’s party, joking with greg, being all happy that they’re free and then blaming greg for his inability to get happy (once greg starts talking about c*****y, no less)

the deal with the devil, where tom gives greg approximately no details, very aggressively puts him in his place, and then acts like greg’s just confessed his love for him when he agrees

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hello, and welcome back to me overanalysing every moment from every tomgreg scene

i cannot stop thinking about the diner scene. it’s a possible contender for my favourite tomgreg scene tbh.

and what’s killing me today is how greg offers to pay for the meal, after tom has accepted greg’s “bauble of corporate wrongdoing” with no fight at all. and the AUDACITY tom has to REFUSE him ??? 

and NOT for the reason he usually would use (something like ‘greg is not rich and I Am Rich and that’s a power play’) - he does it because “greenpeace stole (greg’s) inheritance”.

that’s not a show of power or superiority. that’s him truly considering greg’s situation and responding in kind. it’s a small thing, but he’s openly doing something with the hopes that it makes greg’s life easier.

and that’s AFTER greg essentially asks tom to keep him out of prison. tom still wants to do things to make greg’s life easier. it’s not just ‘oh i’m already going, so i might as well be a martyr’; all of the choices tom makes in this scene (and in various other s3 scenes) shows how he’s using the situation he’s in to protect greg.

sure, he’s struggling with the shifting power dynamic (see: the prelude to the nero & sporus scene where he tries to strategise for greg, but greg has it all figured out). he could respond to it by going insane and lashing out at greg (and he did - eg: “let’s fight like chickens”). 

but in a lot of scenes, and especially the diner scene, he’s gentle with greg. yes, he’s given up, but on himself. he’s given up the ‘tough guy’ act, where he has to be On All The Time. when he’s stripped of that pride, his intentions become very clear; he just wants to make sure greg is okay.

we know that, in what is possibly the worst situation of tom’s life, he strives to keep greg safe. 

ok thank you for reading all of that. your reward below the line is a select few of my favourite moments in the scene: 

(here’s tom realising how far he would go for greg, and how easy it was for him to make the choice)

(here’s greg registering how easily tom accepted his insane proposal)

(here’s tom looking as though he has a Normal Amount of fondness for greg, the man who has just asked him to go to prison for him. it’s a pretty good face.)

(here’s greg realising the extent to which tom would go to protect him. it’s also a pretty good face, honestly)

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hello, and welcome to ✨ tomgreg lines that could be paralleled/subverted in a romantic context ✨ !

SEASON 1

1x01: would you kiss me ? if i asked you to ? if i told you to ?

1x02: when you figure this all out, come in and see me, okay ? and i’ll look after you.

1x06: are you trying to seduce me, tom ? || yes, i am ! yes, i am, greg !

1x06: we have a bond.

1x08: greg, i’m having the time of my life

SEASON 2

2x03: can i trust you? || yes, of course you can trust me. (it would make an impact to do it without the “to a point” to show the shift)

2x03: please.

2x03: thanks, man [tom places his hand on greg’s arm]

2x04: are you... are you attempting to break up with me, greg ? (this one could be used in a fun, flirty way ! it doesn’t have to be sad...)

2x04: i just... i feel a bit... you know ? || i know, i know. it’s just an idea.

2x04: okay, tom ? hey, hey, tom, tom- we’re good. we’re good. (possibly in a different scenario, where tom actually calms down)

2x04: i will not let you do this to me ! i will not let go of what is mine !

2x04: i don’t always like who i am, greg. || yeah, i get that.

2x06: [not a line, but that interaction where greg timidly goes to talk to tom, and tom calls him his “sherpa” and gets all excited]

2x07: i think i just wanted someone to touch my head, you know ? soothing.

2x07: so, in a friendly way, i’m staying here tonight (...)

2x07: don’t overplay your hand, gregory. (again, fun & flirty !)

2x08: [that scene where greg is complaining about midges and tom goes “just stop !” bc they’re literally so Married in that scene]

2x10: i think a lot of time, if i think about it, i think a lot of time, i'm really pretty unhappy. (tom says this to shiv, but it could 100% be subverted for a nice tomgreg scene)

SEASON 3

3x02: hey, gregory. is it true you have a saucy secret ?

3x03: gregory, my chief of staff, leggy princeling of ATN, you deserve a new... office.

3x03: i’ll buy you a watch, dickwad. just fucking come over. || okay, i'll try to come. i wanna come.

3x04: [insert entire nero & sporus scene here]

3x06: [that sequence where tom messages greg to meet him at the diner... and the whole diner scene]

3x06: is it possible you might... with me ?

3x07: [the “is it real ?” scene. i will cry if they revisit the forehead kiss]

3x07: gregory john hirsch, you got a crush ?

3x07: you’re like a fascinating book i’d like to crack open (look... i just think it’d be funny if greg uses a pick up line on tom, ok ?)

3x07: prove it.

3x07: are you okay? || yes, i’m okay, greg. why do you keep asking if i'm okay ?

3x08: [the “date ladder” conversation with greg, tom and shiv]

3x09: talk about me ! || will do !

3x09: [of course, the deal with the devil. special mention of the fact greg says both “the verdict is love” and “it’s a guilt-free switch-up” in the prelude to the deal. also... “hey, tommy !”]

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i am once again thinking about the season 3 pairing posters.

you know what that means ? time for some

✨ overanalysis ✨

(spoiler: this ends up being about tomgreg. you have been warned)

this poster makes sense. it’s a no-brainer. it speaks to their conflict over waystar. it shows both kendall’s strategic mindset (quite literally peering over the shoulder of his father), as well as his underlying desire for acceptance from logan. logan appears steadfast, not acknowledging kendall’s presence, but, as his forward gaze is quite deliberate, he is aware of kendall’s moves and position. logan still clearly has the power in this poster.

again, this pairing is obvious. there is roman and gerri’s romantic arc throughout the season, as well as the subsequent power plays and manipulation that the two exert against one another. in this, roman is essentially not even acknowledging gerri’s presence, which suggests some power of her. however, he is seated, placing him in a position that is beneath gerri - in this view, gerri has the power. is roman not acknowledging her, or is he unable to see what she is doing ? the placement of gerri’s hand alludes to the romantic subplot, but also the calculated way it is perched also hints at the way she is able to use it to hold power over roman.

now, this one is an interesting pairing. connor and shiv are obviously the siblings that were very clearly outside of the company, but are both finding ways into establishing a place within waystar, as well as accruing power. shiv wants to lead the company, and connor wants a springboard for his presidential bid. other than that, the choice to put these two together is somewhat confusing. these two are siblings, yes, but they don’t necessarily have any major plots that are unique to the two of them. it also poses the bigger question: why isn’t shiv with tom ? well…

it’s because tom is with greg. of course tom is with greg.

think about which of the three prior posters this most emulates ? roman and gerri’s - the only poster that featured a pairing that is romantically involved. yes, it speaks to gerri holding power over roman, and of course there was a clear power dynamic between greg and tom going into season 3. tom as the boss, greg as his underling. this poster highlights that, but also hints at the changing dynamic across the season.

tom has his hands on greg’s shoulders, but it isn’t just this sign of manipulation. from what we know now about the events of season 3, it can be interpreted as a sign of support or even protection over greg. unlike, roman and gerri, it is not one hand perched; it is two hands holding. and it goes the other way too- tom could be seen as leaning on greg for support himself. i’ll use just two moments from season 3 as reference, where greg clearly acts as a source of support for tom.

the shiv/greg parallels in the lion in the meadow, particularly the question of “are you okay ?”. tom wants shiv to ask him this, and, when she doesn’t, who does tom go to ? greg. who asks the question ? greg. (for more on this, check this out)

when tom finds out that he is not going to jail, who does he go to ? sure, shiv is in the room, but they’ve been able to leave a situation to speak privately (see: using mondale as an excuse to leave dinner with the pierces). but he doesn’t want to see shiv. he wants to see greg, who is the only person who made a real attempt to support him during this time.

this poster is rife with not only hints about the events of season 3, but also (romantic…?) connotations about the changing dynamic between the two - from a very clear concentration of power with tom, to a more equal partnership. it is an absolutely perfect summation of how the tom/greg dynamic evolved across season 3.

can’t wait to see the season 4 posters. be prepared for another wordy analysis of those when they get released in 10 years lol

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tom’s first executive meeting, the one in lifeboats, where he’s just a total disaster,,, i adore him

running to the meeting, then realising the walls were glass and trying to play it off

trying and failing to open the door of said glass room

making incessant references to the dark side in star wars

getting introduced by kendall and then immediately cut off when trying to talk

clearly sitting way more forward than all of the other, more relaxed people in the meeting

taking dumb notes about kendall’s ravings,, like what is he writing ? ✨ lifeboats 💕 ???

finding kendall after the meeting, getting nervous, and subsequently making even more star wars references

his awful impression of c-3po

his awkward walk away from kendall

he’s such a mess and i adore him forever n ever

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ok ok ok so i need to talk about the parallels in ‘lion in the meadow’.

we can see that tom is clearly scared about the very real threat of going to prison, and he tries to share it with shiv. shiv very quickly shuts him down.

he literally tells her he’s “fucking terrified” and her response is “i don’t know what i can say to you”.

tom clearly wants to talk about what he’s feeling. he wants someone to ask him how he’s actually feeling about this life-altering prospect. he tried to bring it up to the person he’s meant to trust the most, but she can’t be what he needs. he just needs someone to ask him if he’s okay.

and what does greg ask him after the nero and sporus conversation ? “are you okay?”

why would greg’s response be the one thing tom wanted shiv, his wife, to ask him ? why would they have greg fulfil that role instead ? being that person that tom needs but, at that moment in time, not the person tom necessarily wants - why is greg the one who actually knows what to say to tom ?

and tom’s lack of direct reaction, instead choosing to make a joke and ask greg to “fight like chickens” shows both the shifting dynamic between tom and greg (that they’re becoming more like equals as opposed to an inferior/superior), and tom’s belief that shiv is the one who is supposed to be fulfilling that role. yet, it’s greg who ends up doing just that (surely this is just another piece of foreshadowing for tom and greg in season 4… fingers crossed)

by having greg say “i don’t want to!”, and tom mocking him and replying “neither do i, greg! it was a joke, you idiot”, both tom and greg actually being more honest than they think.

1) the conversation is really about tom’s inner conflict about his active choice to offer himself up as a sacrifice to logan. at the time he said it, it felt less real (more like “a joke”). it was a hypothetical, and it meant he would have a better standing in the eyes of logan. now that it may become real, tom is absolutely terrified.

2) the conversation is also about the whole ‘tom sundae with greg sprinkles’ thing. despite tom’s offer to logan, greg is also at risk, as we know. greg saying “i don’t want to!” also leads very well into the diner scene, where tom agrees to hang greg’s bauble of corporate wrongdoing on the christmas tree.

and by that point, tom has essentially accepted that he’s going to prison, and his concern becomes keeping greg safe, which is why he so readily accepted it. because it’s greg, you know greg - his sporus, who is the only person who, at any point in time, actually gave a damn about how tom was feeling, even if tom didn’t let him in.

so yeah,,, they’re such good scenes,,, i love parallels <3

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oh my god okay so i’m rewatching ‘return’, and i just noticed something about the scene where tom tells greg that he’s staying over.

so in between the weird (flirting) joking about greg networking, and the copious threats about greg keeping the papers, tom says a very particular line:

“yeah, but you don’t need an insurance policy”

in the context of the episode, tom is trying to tell greg give up the papers in order to completely erase the paper trail of the misconduct at cruises.

however, considering it now, it actually perfectly describes how tom treats greg in season 3.

tom tells greg that he doesn’t need an insurance policy, then, in the following season, tom becomes greg’s insurance policy. when his neck is on the line, he does everything he can to keep greg safe.

i obviously don’t know if this was fully intentional (it’s possible bc it’s succession), but it’s insane that tom says a line which predicts how the events of the third season unfolds.

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admin post <3

hello - i’m kaz, and this is my succession blog !

i follow accounts from my main blog @itslittlealexhorne, so if you see a follow/reply from that account, it’s me !

send me an ask here ! i am genuinely always thrilled to talk about succession. 

i will also happily provide headcanons or analyses if you want them - all you gotta do is ask ! :D

my original content can be found at ‘#tnwg’, and my writing tag is ‘#tnwg writes’

i also spend too much time thinking about this show, and my posts about that can be found at ‘#tnwg overanalyses’

‼️ THIS BLOG CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR SUCCESSION SEASON 4 ‼️

every post with potential spoilers will be tagged: “succession spoilers”, “succession season 4 spoilers”, “succession season 4”

follow along with my thoughts about each episode using these tags:

4x01 the munsters

4x02 rehearsal

4x03 connor’s wedding

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me, sliding the loose change from my bag to nicholas britell: hey, please leak the season 3 soundtrack