#to contrast with how she snuck into atlas

[strqyr]

since amity is now a battleship, it's gotta fight something, right?

can i get uhhhh... the return of the kevin?

[itsclydebitches]

You know its interesting how not only do we not see any military evacuate to Vacuo, but no portals appear in both the command center and the jail cell where Ironwood and Jacques were, even though RWBY and co wanted portals for everyone in Atlas and Mantle. Obviously the writers needed Ironwood to confront Winter, but we should have seen one appear as the two qualify as "everyone".

Yeah, it’s not even clear during the wish scene who they wanted to receive portals. I think Yang uses the term “everyone” when first asking Ambrosius if he can do this, but then he comes back with his list of requirements which includes telling him where each portal goes. They get distracted by the whole funneling the people through one central location thing and then... Ambrosius just does it. But we never establish what’s up with the portals. So did they wish for “everyone” to get a portal and the story just forgot to include Jacques, Ironwood, Qrow, Robyn, etc. in all of that? Is the implication supposed to be that the group told Ambrosius where to put them, but the story forgot to show that? And the group is so foolish/uncaring that they didn’t ask for the army or their other allies to get portals? (I mean, I know the fandom doesn’t want to acknowledge this, but this absolutely tracks with the rest of the season. Ruby didn’t care that her uncle was missing, then didn’t care that he was arrested, and none of them care about the forces dying while they drink tea. Obviously, our heroes aren’t meant to be written as heartless in this manner, but that’s what the writing ends up implying.) Or, as we saw with Penny’s human body, did Ambrosius just... do his own thing, entirely unprompted? You kids amused me with your vault solution, so here, I’ll give portals to the people you thematically care the most about  — Mantle and Atlas refugees. Save both!  — even though I can’t read minds, don’t know what’s going on, and you never said anything like that in my presence. But I somehow knew you wanted Penny to be human now, so this isn’t any less messy than the previous wish...

It’s a terribly written scene any way you slice it. Cinder has that line about how the group managed to save “thousands,” but there’s absolutely more people in two huge cities than “thousands.” That line should mean, “They tried to save everyone, but I stopped them. Too bad they still managed to save some though,” but all the evacuees are through the Vacuo portal by the time Cinder leaves to make her wish. The pathways didn’t disappear with thousands of people still running for the exit, it was just Jaune and Winter. No one else was coming through the portals. We didn’t see anyone else trying, but then the portals disappear. The evacuation is done. Which implies that someone  — Team RWBY, Ambrosius, writers making incredibly strange decisions — said, “We’ll evacuate everyone in the crater, in the subway system, and screw everyone else who we know isn’t in those two locations because they were actually fighting the battle.” You can’t even (horribly) try to write that off with a “All military personnel/Atlesians are evil, so it’s fine” because we’ve spent volumes establishing that Atlas’ military and huntsmen academy are one in the same, including showing Flynt and Neon (with an added, “They’re just kids” line!). So someone really looked at the Atlas equivalent of the Fall of Beacon  —  all these teachers, students, licensed huntsmen, with added soldiers who we take the time to show are terrified and/or comparatively young — and just went, “Nah, they’re not important.” The students they trained with last volume? Who cares. Penny’s father who was on a falling Amity when she passed out? Don’t know him. The group’s resident grandma who is meant to be Ruby’s mentor? Whatever. All the people they snuck past in the military HQ? Not a priority. Her supposedly beloved uncle? Well, Ruby made it clear in Volume 6 that she’d leave him behind if she considered it necessary and... now I guess that time has come. The show’s inconsistencies don’t just make for stupid plot points, they really undermine the idea that this group actually cares about the people they keep loudly proclaiming they care about, to say nothing of how it messes with the larger themes. Ironwood’s decent is meant to start with the decision to leave Mantle behind... but we end with the heroes leaving huge chunks of the population behind too? Not because they failed, but because they presumably just didn’t care or remember that they exist? That’s really not the contrast between heroes and villains that RT seems to think it is. 

[loopy777]

You've (famously) done an entire fic where Mai riffs on various shippings, but I'd love to know what your *personal* thoughts on all the different ATLA ships are. Obviously, I know you like Maiko, Maikka, and Sokkla, but how about a bunch of other ships? Like Kataang, or Taang, or Sukka, or Tokka, or Jinko, or Yukka, or Toko, etc.? How about F/F or M/M ships?

“Mai’s Ramblings” is still famous? Huh. I still need to figure out how to get it on AO3.

Anyway, I’m afraid my answers can all probably be summarized as “It’s fine.” I like the ships I like pretty much because the involved characters are my favorites. But I’ll give it a go and see what I can say…

Kataang: These two fit well together, and I think the cartoon does a pretty good job of showing how they have complementary personalities and priorities. If anything, it does too good a job, because there isn’t really any reason to delay them getting together until the finale aside from genre convention. Katara’s “confused” feelings never get an explanation, just a range of possibilities, leaving the fans to try to fill in what seems to be a critical part of the subplot. But when they’re together, they build each other up nicely.

Taang: I like that they have similar heights, and the way they look when they’re Earthbending in unison. Very superficial, I know, but them’s the breaks. After their initial difficulties, I think the cartoon did a good job as showing them as friends, and that can be a good basis for a romance. But I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a single fanfic for this pairing that I liked, and that affects my feelings on the pairing.

Sukka: Here’s another ship I like because I like the characters. Sokka is one of my favorites, I’m fond of Suki for her cool ninja abilities and the depth she could have, and I think they have complementary personalities. I like their storyline in the cartoon (it’s the romantic plotline with the most meat on its bones in the entire cartoon, IMO), with how it combines with both Sokka getting over his sexism and moving on after Yue’s death. It also had the best shippers, back in the glory days of ASN.

Tokka: I prefer this pairing as friends, simply because the romantic fanfics are all just variations on the “Sempai, please notice me!” theme, and I’ve never been into that. The non-romantic stuff for this pairing is all about them being buddies and getting into shenanigans and trolling the other characters and getting in over their heads and- well, all kinds of fun stuff. That said, friendship is a good basis for romance, so I think they could be good as a couple.

Jinko: I’m kind of cool on this one because I don’t think Zuko really had any attraction to Jin, and Jin herself is a fairly generic character. The fun of their date is mostly about seeing Zuko being a dork (making it a much more successful implementation of the same idea behind the Fire Teen antics in “The Beach,” especially with Azula’s subplot there), and I just don’t see Zuko getting that invested in a strange girl at that point in his life/story.

Yukka: I like it as a doomed romance, but I’m a bit biased on this one because the first episodes I watched of Avatar were ��Lake Laogai” and “The Earth King,” so I knew that the ‘Suki’ who Sokka is excited to see would win out over Yue. Yue’s death and role are cool, and her conflict between her duty and her feelings are compelling, but I’m more invested in her as a tragic figure than someone who really works for Sokka. She’s his fantasy of his perfect mate, and even if she lived, I think he’d have to eventually realize that he needs someone less reserved. Likewise, I think she appreciates Sokka’s goofy charm and his kindness, but I’m not sure she really likes him for the full range of his character, including his flaws.

Toko: I like the dynamic between Zuko and Toph, but this is another one where I like it without the romantic flavor. However, while it’s another “Notice me, Sempai!” attraction, I think it works a little better than with Sokka because Zuko is a much more oblivious personality. He can completely miss Toph’s attempts to throw herself at him, no matter how blatant, while Sokka would eventually figure things out. But, romantic or just friends, I think this dynamic has good thing going with the way Zuko and Toph have similar parent-issues, but enough contrasts in their issues and situations so that they don’t feel like repeats of each other. They can start with an understanding of each other, while still being able to learn from each other. And I think Toph would fare best if pulled into Zuko’s Fire Lord life, if just because she is good at walking away. Which leads me to…

Zutara: You didn’t ask about it, but I think it merits an opinion. It’s not my favorite Katara ship, but “The Southern Raiders” shows how they can egg each other on in the worst ways, and that can be very interesting. Zuko and Katara also play off each other in high-energy ways, so I can see why it fascinates. But my biggest problem with it is that it supposes that Katara gets subsumed into Royal Fire culture, becoming ‘Fire Lady’ and living her life in service to Zuko’s. Maybe if Zuko doesn’t become Fire Lord, it would be more interesting to me, but no fanfic wants to go that route. I don’t see Katara resisting assimilation in the way Toph would, if just because Katara would take it all seriously, while I can see Toph maintaining a wry detachment even while married to Zuko.

Katoph: Putting Zuko aside, I’m in love with the idea that Katara was nursing a little crush on Toph that helped fuel their rivalry, and her confusion about Aang was caused in part by also having an attraction to Toph that she didn’t realize. I don’t see the pairing working out, if just because Toph is canonically boy-crazy, but I think it would be amusing to see Toph try to let Katara down gently and Katara not having a clue what’s going on.

Kazula: I think these two could have an interesting dynamic, either romantically or not, but I’ve not seen enough to really get a feel for it, and I haven’t gotten around to any of my fic ideas for bouncing them off each other, so I can’t say much about it. But I think they have enough similarities that there’s something that could be done with them.

Ty Zula: I recently did a post on this.

MaiLee: I did a post on this as well.

Zukka: I struggle with this one. Zuko and Sokka have a solid friendship, and as I’ve said, friendship is a good basis for romance. I’ve even written a fic where Sokka is in a three-person marriage with Maiko, But I really do think there’s something more in their Bros friendship, as established by “The Boiling Rock,” than any romance could bring out. A little distance is necessary for the way they keep measuring themselves against the other, and I’d hate to lose that aspect.

Jetko: This is another one where I think the fandom over-estimates Zuko’s interest in the other party (the first being Jinko), but that’s what makes it hilariously fun. Jet as Zuko’s obsessed stalker who develops a kind of romantic fascination with him is practically canon, and Zuko dealing with that in a surly and exasperated way sounds delightful.

Zukaang: I mean, isn’t this one canon? Make Aang a girl, and I don’t think you’d have to alter a single line of dialogue in the cartoon to get the entire audience to see it. The pure hero bringing the angsty anti-villain over to side of the angels is the basis for countless romances, and “The Firebending Masters” shows wonderfully how these two would work as partners. And as the Avatar, Aang wouldn’t get subsumed into Zuko’s life as royalty. Honestly, it’s the second-best Zuko ship after Maiko, and that’s only because Maiko snuck in there with the Childhood Friends bit.