#viktor gets half of a pass because he's still trying to figure out his gender but. come on. could've given his leather jacket back at LEAST

[momokodaisy]

The costume designers had to be fired because jfc what is this.

These are the people pulled right off the street. These are coworkers at a bar. These are actors at a press junket.

Hey remember the season one cast shots? Where you knew exactly what kind of life and personality everyone had just by a quick glance at their clothes? And everyone had a distinct style and vibe and you could identify them immediately from their silhouette?

Yeah no more of that.

Luther is now a Winchester brother, Klaus is auditioning for a CSI show, Diego is about to crack open a beer and watch a football game in his recliner, Lila is unrecognizable, Allison and Ben have lost all of their fashion senses, and Five has been recast as Timothee Chalamet.

Season 4 is looking down, fam.

[caddy-whump-us]

Some questions/food for thought: Why can Lucian never be a Black Swan? Has he done something to discount him from that entirely? Does he ever beg to be treated like one (and get suitably punished for his insolence)?

Oh anon~ This is about to be a Deep Dive into the Lore and Backstory. Spoilers ahead for some of the unwritten bits of the vampire series. And this is seriously long, okay? And, more importantly:

CAUTION/TW for referenced non-con, sex work, and forced/non-con sex work, and physical violence. Nothing is described outright; all mentions are only oblique references. Still, please proceed with caution!

Okay. Lucien. This snide little asshole. Let’s talk about him!!!

Lucien could be a black swan–in theory. But he’s been passed over because he’s actually not entirely human. O wat? O yes.

So the “red light district” of this city (which needs a name; I generally picture something like Yharnam from Bloodborne but with fewer monsters and more of a functional city) is called Smoketown. And it’s off to the southeast corner of the city, on the other side of the river. And this is the part of town where the drugs, gambling, dance halls, and sex workers are found. To use the local slang, there’s grindhouses and ponyboy stables, and dollboys around Smoketown. 

There’s a bit of a hierarchy, I guess, in all this, with the “dolls” and “dollboys” being the top tier (charging the most), down to the ponyboy/ponygirl stables (middle tier), down to the grindhouse boys/girls (lower tier), on down to the “crib hoors” and “street hoors” (generally regarded as awful and only suitable for the most broke and desperate). This is a real simplification, but I guess that explains the basics? 

Lucien was, some time ago, a dollboy (so was Maggie Magpie, actually). They’re regarded as the prettiest and most expensive–if you want to be fancy you could almost call them courtesans. And, ideally, they’ll get themselves a particular patron and be a sort of love affair for pay.

An aside: so this imagined world has different views on sexuality (and to some extent gender? but not quite so much). Basically, when one is young, go ahead and fool around. You’re young, what you do now is less important than what you do later. But because this culture still very much holds to primogeniture, you had better be married to someone with whom you can have a biological child. That’s the ideal. But while you’re young, a teenager, a 20-something, go ahead and fool around–ideally not in Smoketown, but if you’re a boy and you find yourself drawn to a boy classmate, well, that’s just how it is when you’re young. And if you’re a girl, and you find yourself drawn to a girl classmate, well, go on ahead, because young love is passionate but rarely lasts. You can like whoever during this period of particular romantic and sexual freedom.

Once one gets a little older, it’s considered mature and responsible to “grow out” of this phase of experimentation and rampaging passion. You settle down, you marry someone with whom you can have biological children, and your firstborn will inherit your estate, &c &c. But, of course, some people just…won’t. Because this is how they are. In some cases, like Nikolai and Jonathan, they go on with their relationship and don’t grow out of it but rather into each other (this is why N&J staged a secret wedding between themselves, with rings and all; they can’t marry in the eyes of the law, but they consider themselves married). And, yes, this is not considered mature or wholly acceptable, so they keep these (quite committed) relationships as secret as possible.

In other cases, especially among the titled, the gentry, the upper-class, who all marry each other as one does, if you must indulge in this misplaced youthful exuberance, there’s Smoketown. And if must go to Smoketown, at least pay for the services of one of the sex workers of equally high status. (Does that always happen? No. But you get the idea.)

So you have this set of “houses” of highly-paid, highly-regarded “dollboys.” And these houses are both in competition with one another but not a strenuous competition. Any competition mostly plays out in trying to find or recruit new workers (Maggie, as an example, was born to a sex worker and, presumably, a client and was kept as a kind of a household servant in that same “house” until the proprietor of the Aviary encountered him and essentially bought him and kept on using him as a household servant until he was of age to actual start work; he’s in debt at this point). 

And, of course, the different houses have different aesthetics. The Aviary tends to have boyish workers that play to that nostalgic “school romance” or “university romance” aesthetic, Lucien’s house (no name yet) tends to play more with gender especially re: clothing and makeup. Lucien likes feathers and leathers and silk and lace and painting his eyes. He knows he can kind of saunter along and blur that line. And it works well for him.

So that’s Smoketown. Now. Off north of the river and outside the city (northwest of it, I think?) is a district called “The Five Churches.” And there are, indeed, five churches, that all share a large plaza or square onto which their doors open (p.s.: weddings are conducted on the porch of the church; just a fun fact there). The sixth side of the plaza is open to the city. Beyond and behind the churches is a massive, massive cemetery–it is absolutely the cemetery for the entire city (please picture Highgate Cemetery or the Glasgow Necropolis).

And somewhere out in or beyond or (actually) under the cemetery is a secret, hidden, exclusive…club, I guess. It’s not a cult, but it’s extremely secretive. A secret society, is I guess the best way to put it. And it is called The Red Circle.

The truth is, the Red Circle is really just a giant whump party. The rich and powerful (men, almost exclusively) have at their disposal a selection of whumpees to use as they see fit, to release the tensions of the lives or to satisfy urges that otherwise cannot be soothed or just because. 

Now it’s time to introduce a new character. His name is Cyprian and he is a vampire. And he is also under the control of the Red Circle (for reasons I haven’t figured out yet). They’ve got something to use against him if he betrays them, IDK. 

Etienne has actually found evidence of Cyprian but doesn’t know it. There are tally marks in a book hidden in Viktor’s library that add up to about 3 years and change and at the end are the initials C. G. That’s Cyprian from back when he was Viktor’s black swan. And, yes, Viktor turned him into a vampire. And, no, Cyprian wasn’t happy. He should have been Viktor’s heir, but that didn’t work out. And now he’s under the command of the Red Circle. But why?

Well if you have a bunch of whumpees and you love whumping them, how do you keep whumping them without constantly killing them and then needing new ones? The answer came from some of Cyprian’s research (he started digging into the whole “black swan” custom among other things): it is possible to create a kind of ghoul, a kind of half-vampire by carrying out the procedure used to turn a human into a vampire but carrying that procedure out only partially.

Rather than draining the human of all (or almost all) of their blood and then feeding them blood from the vampire that drank their blood, a vampire can inject a human with a small amount of their blood (not taken from the human victim in question here) and you’ll end up with what’s been termed a ghoul.

Ghouls are worthless to vampires: their blood is disgusting, they smell like rust and iron to vampires. And they don’t get many of the benefits that full vampires have–they can’t move so fast, they don’t have the sharp teeth, &c. they do have better vision at night but their eyes are inclined to reflect light like a cat’s eyes will. 

Instead, ghouls are more like humans but still have the vampiric sensitivity to sunlight (neither ghouls nor vampires burn in the sun, btw) and are bound by what’s called the Obligation of Flesh. Where vampires can sustain themselves with blood only, ghouls have to eat raw meat with some regularity. This both keeps them essentially sane and (more importantly to the Red Circle) helps them to heal inordinately quickly. Deny them meat and they heal like typical humans. Feed them some raw liver or brains or raw chicken and raw eggs and they’ll start mending right before your eyes (no, it isn’t comfortable, thanks). Yes, they can die and much more easily than true vampires and some of the Red Circle’s ghouls have, in fact, died.

Now you’re probably way ahead of me by now: Lucien is, in fact, a ghoul. 

The Red Circle’s method goes like this: one or more of them identify someone they want to add to their collection. This decision is discussed and debated until consensus is reached–and they’re very careful about how often and who they add to their collection. At that point, lower-ranking members are sent to the target’s working house and pay for their services–whereupon they whump them up but badly. 

This happens sometimes, even in the best houses, even in the Aviary. The target is allowed to heal but this means less money for the house. As soon as the target is back at work, someone else comes in and repeats the process: payment, whumping. The proprietor is not likely to put a bruised boy out on the floor in a good house, so back he goes to heal and, again, money is lost. And this repeats as long as is needed until word gets out that the proprietor is getting a little fed up with this pattern but it’s not one obvious person or one obvious group doing it. At that point, a messenger from the Red Circle will arrive with an offer to buy the target outright at an extravagant cost, enough to make losing this one boy worth it, especially if it means an end to having an unworkable boy so often. It may take time, but the proprietor is eventually coerced into accepting the offer and the target is spirited away by members of the Red Circle (or aspiring members maybe? pledges, if you will?) and to their secret meetingplace. 

Everything about this sucks, including the part where Cyprian makes them into a ghoul, because that alone hurts like hell. And then they’re stuck there, getting whumped regularly, then patched up and/or fed raw meat. One of the higher-ranking members serves as a kind of proprietor there; Cyprian is as much a servant (or slave?) as any of the ghouls.

So that’s how Lucien ended up being completely undesirable to vampires. But how did he get out of the Red Circle? Mostly because he was a very bad element to add to the collection and there was an uprising against the members of the Red Circle and there may or may not have been some revenge whumping and even cannibalism (gotta meet that Obligation of Flesh somehow). 

At that point, after the Red Circle was broken, everyone in the collection kind of went their own ways. Even Cyprian was free. Lucien, though, kind of fascinated by Cyprian and the things he talked about, sought out Viktor and offered himself as a postulate. And, as we all know, Viktor accepted him. And Lucien set out to be the best and most devoted because that’s how you get rewarded in the world he comes from.

But the first time he offered his blood to Viktor, Viktor laughed and called him a monster and refused his blood. And here Lucien, having learned of the whole black swan tradition mostly from being in Viktor’s house, had been hoping for such a place of honor and now it seems like it’s been absolutely denied to him forever–because he’s a monster with blood Viktor can’t consume. And, yes, Lucien is unbelievably angry and bitter about the whole situation, especially when Etienne enters the picture (unexpectedly).

I hadn’t thought about him begging for the chance to be treated as a black swan and then being punished for daring to ask for such a thing but, damn, now I want to think about that. He probably would–albeit in private. There’s a lot of jockeying for position among the postulates and Lucien has worked his way up to the top, almost a class by himself, and he will not let that go easily. So to be seen begging for something could weaken his position and that won’t do. And yet…and yet…he does want it…

He might get what he wants someday. But it’s going to take some interesting circumstances.

So that’s a bit of a deep dive into the lore, worldbuilding, and backstory that’s running along and behind the vampire stories. If you made it this far, thanks for reading all this! Bits of this will come out as I get more of the stories sorted out and written. But there you have it~

[regular-lord-reckoner]

We Need to Talk About Kevin, I Mean Otayuri

Alright, so let’s talk about Otayuri, age of consent, pedophilia, and abusive relationships for a minute. (This is gonna get long, but please bear with me)

So, like most issues that exist, you’ve got people on at least two pretty distinct sides (and a bunch that fall somewhere in the middle).

There are those who feel like the shipping of these two is absolutely, completely wrong for a variety of reasons and those who feel like the shipping of these two is absolutely, completely a-okay for a variety of reasons.

So, let’s talk about some of those and I’ll share with you my perspective on the situation, shall we?

Obviously one of the biggest issues that comes up is the age of consent. When talking about these characters in particular it becomes a little tricky because they both come from different countries and the show itself is Japanese.

According to a little research, the age of consent for both Russia and Kazakhstan is 16. For Japan it’s 13 (which…yikes on bikes).

Now, this becomes important because there’s a lot of speculation about how to view the ages of both characters.

In terms of where the show itself has left off, where season one ended, Yuri was still 15. His birthday is at the beginning of March and so it’s assumed that unless the show decides to go back in time, if/when we get a season 2 he’ll be 16 (although if the show picks up literally where it left off he’s probably still 15 and I’d guess maybe two months out from 16? It’s hard to tell. Yuuri’s hair has gotten longer in the last shot, so we know at least some time has passed since December, but it’s unclear how much. Chances are, though, being that the show itself took place in essentially real time, by the time a second season is out we’ll have passed that point and hell, Yuri may even be 17 by the time we get another season, who knows.) 

Otabek’s age is a little more unclear. Several times in the show his age is listed as 18 until towards the end of the season where Celestino says he’s 19. Otabek’s birthday is at the end of October and although a great deal of time passes from the beginning of the season to the end (Yuuri mentions something along the lines of “I can’t believe it’s already been 8 months…”) during Viktor’s narration which takes place in December he says Otabek is 18, so we didn’t pick up another birthday for him, therefore I’m more inclined to think he’s actually 18 and that Celestino was just mistaken or perhaps it was an accident on behalf of one of the writers.

But so essentially we’re dealing with a 15/16 year old and an 18/possibly 19 year old.

Now, first off something I’ve noticed from the opposed side is that they tend to cite American laws of consent, but there is an issue there and that is that American laws of consent are not the same across the board, but rather determined by state.

In the US, consent is set anywhere from 16 to 18 years of age with the most common being 16 years of age. Obviously then this makes it hard trying to apply American law to this situation because neither character lives in America and therefore we can’t say, “Oh, well Otabek is from New York, so the age of consent for him would be 17!”

That being the case, I think it’s more appropriate to use their own countries as what we hold them to in legal terms, because different countries have different ideas and laws about other behaviors as well that are considered “for adults only” such as drinking, driving, voting, buying cigarettes, renting a car, etc., etc.

So, as it would stand right now, if we’re to take the view of Yuri still being 15 because that’s where the show left him, then yes, a relationship between he and Otabek would not be okay in either country as he is under the age of consent.

By the time the show comes back, though (and lord I hope it does) Yuri will likely be 16 and therefore legally able to consent.

Now listen…I don’t like the idea of a 16 year old having sex as much as the next guy. I think that’s too young, I think that age is too immature to really handle something like that, but I teach sex ed to middle and high schoolers and I know better. They’re doing it.

Fortunately, last I checked (and this is American statistics but still) only like 47% of high schoolers are sexually active, which is less than half. And if I’m not mistaken, I think it’s actually lower than that now, so that’s somewhat good news!

Also, teen pregnancy rates have been on the decline over the past few decades, although they’re still not great they are going down. Unfortunately, however, teen STD rates are going up.

Of the 20 million new STD cases reported each year, about half are from young people ages 15-24. 

So, whether we like it or not, these little fuckers are out here boning down on each other and they’re not being particularly careful about it either, which is discouraging, but part of why I do what I do.

Unfortunately, however, in the state in which I work there are very strict laws about sex education, specifically that we’re to promote abstinence emphatically and exclusively and that we cannot promote the use of contraceptives and birth control and may only give medically accurate information about such if a student asks a question about them in good faith (which means they don’t ask just to get a rise out of me or the class).

These laws are born, I think, out of this mindset that a lot of adults have that sex isn’t for teens and therefore they should only be given the bare minimum amount of information, lest you inadvertently encourage them to become sexually active. (This mindset, btw, is also what I believe drives adults to deny kids and teens the validity of their gender identity and sexual orientations, although the situations are not quite the same the underlying idea of a teenager being too young/too immature to be able to handle/know about certain things is of the same thread.) 

And again, like…in some part I agree. I teach these kids, I see how a lot of them still can’t handle having a mature conversation about puberty and am horrified every time one of says they think the “pull out method” is an effective way to prevent pregnancy (joke’s on you, kid, it’s actually the way most teens end up getting pregnant!)

If I had it my way, I’d give these kids some coloring books and juice boxes and sit their asses in front of cartoons all day long because the older you get, the more people younger than you look like infants. Hell, even by my senior year of high school I was looking at freshman thinking, “You’re just babies, what are you doing here??? Who let you out of daycare?!?!?”

I also had a 15 year old insist to me that her personality is going to stay the same for the rest of her life and that she’s pretty much already matured as much as she’s ever going to and I just…I hated to be “that adult” but I had to gently point out to her that while for the most part, yes, her personality may stay more or less the same that her brain hasn’t even finished growing.

You don’t reach full brain development until around your mid-twenties and one of the last things to fully develop is your prefrontal cortex area which is responsible for things like personality, decision-making, and impulse control. Y’know, things we tend to think of younger people struggling with.

That being said, I’m not one of these people that thinks teenagers are just sacks of jumbled hormones who can’t be trusted with any level of responsibility and who have no levels of maturity whatsoever. That’s certainly not true.

A lot of kids at that age slowly begin to take on responsibilities like learning how to drive, how to manage their own money, and maybe even have a part-time job, as well as already looking into higher education or which field of work they’d like to enter once they graduate.

Teenagers do possess a certain capacity for these things and so I’m not writing them off entirely, I’m just saying I can sympathize with those who look at them and think, “God, you’re so young, though, you shouldn’t be trusted with something so important…” because it’s hard not to look back at your own youth and think, “Wow, I really thought I had it all figured out then, but I didn’t know shit!”

(Then again, I still do assert that I was pretty mature for my age. While of course I wasn’t completely there, I was more mature than what you’d expect from a typical teenager, although perhaps I’m a little biased in saying so, who knows.)

So, okay, we’ve established that we understand why some people can’t fathom the thought of teens who are sexually active, I gotcha, I’m right there with ya. But again, I think we need to be realistic and come to terms with the fact that, like it or not, they are.

If at age 16 Yuri decides to become sexually active, I may not like it, but he will legally be able to consent and his behavior wouldn’t be some drastic deviation from the norm. If he were to live in America, he’d still be in that less than half percentage of those who are, but it’s still pretty close to half and therefore not really that unheard of.

From a legal standpoint, then, at age 16 there’s nothing technically wrong. He’s well within his rights at that point. At 15, no, but 16, yes.

Now, I see a lot of people from the in favor side who are very transparent about the fact that they wouldn’t ship Yuri and Otabek together until Yuri’s 16 anyway, some saying not even until he’s 18 or until they’re both in their twenties because they want these characters to have time to get to know one another as friends first and then perhaps something romantic will develop as time goes on. This is also in conjecture with the idea that just because two people are dating doesn’t automatically mean they’re having sex, and in fact, I’ve seen a lot of headcanons for both Yuri and Otabek that view them as being asexual, so there’s that as well.

One of the ways of thinking about their situation, therefore, is to put it in a realistic context and realize that age-wise, this is the equivalent of a sophomore and a senior in high school dating.

Another way of looking at it is that Otabek is eighteen. Teen. He’s still a teenager. He will remain a teenager until he’s twenty. Even though, at least in the US, he’d be allowed to vote and buy cigarettes, he’s still technically a teen, so we’re talking about two teenagers dating. And again, a 16 and 18 year old dating isn’t really that uncommon.

Now, here’s where I take issue with something. I see a lot of people on the opposed side calling Otabek a “grown ass man”. I…don’t know how many 18 year olds you know, but I would hardly classify them as “grown ass” individuals.

Here again, an 18 year old’s brain hasn’t even finished growing yet and although an 18 year old is likely to be a little more mature than a 16 year old, we’re not talking about drastic leaps and bounds in maturity the same way we would between someone who’s 12 and someone who’s 16.  

I think people use this terminology to support the idea that “Otayuri is pedophilia” in which by painting Otabek as a “grown ass man” and Yuri as “a literal child” it sounds a lot worse than what it really is which, again, if we don’t put these two together until Yuri’s 16 is a ~two year age gap. Hardly that scandalous and also not what pedophilia is, but I do on the other hand understand why it makes some people uncomfortable and that’s okay! (It’s not okay that you’re uncomfortable, but your feelings are valid, is what I’m saying)

I know a lot of people like to get real technical at this point in the argument and talk about pedophilia per definition, so let’s talk about that.

Merriam-Webster dictionary describes pedophilia as: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object; specifically: a psychological disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child.

Therefore, a lot of people argue that using the term pedophilia isn’t exactly accurate because Yuri’s not really prepubescent. Now, from where I sit, I know the onset of puberty can begin anywhere from 9 to 16 years old, it depends on the person and typically “boys” are later than “girls”.

Yuri describes during the show how he knows he has a short window before his body begins to change, which prompts some to think that perhaps he hasn’t begun puberty yet. This one’s difficult, because it’s not likely we’re going to get a solid answer on, “Hey, when will/did Yuri start puberty?”

He’s on the shorter side right now (5’4) and it’s hard to tell with an animated character how defined his features really are, although he does appear to have some muscle tonnage in spite of his skinny physique so that tells me he’s at least experiencing some puberty, also the fact that his voice is on the deeper side and he doesn’t appear to have any vocal cracking going on. (Although how far you can really throw that one considering the flashback of him at like…what, 10 or 12 has him with the same voice so…Idk)

Being that it’s somewhat murky then whether or not he’s started puberty, I can see where semantically you could use the definition of pedophilia to either condemn of excuse your stance.

In terms of age-wise, though, typically anyone under the age of 13 would be considered a child and an attraction to a teenager would be more along the lines of either hebephilia or ephebophilia.

However, I don’t really think we need to get into semantics to understand what a person is trying to say when they say, “I don’t support this ship because I think it’s pedophilia”. What they mean is that they’re uncomfortable with someone who’s a legal adult being with someone who isn’t quite there yet. And again, that’s understandable if that makes you uncomfortable and I’m not going to tell you to shut up or feel a different way.

I do, however, take issue with the fact that I feel like some of the discourse surrounding issues of pedophilia takes on a stance that essentially borders on the idea of: if two 17 year olds date they have to break up as soon as one of them turns 18 because that’s just wrong!!!!! That’s…kind of extreme, in my opinion and misses the point.

But we’ll talk more about pedophilia in just a second, I want to move on to my next point.

So, from the opposed side we have the argument of, “Even if Yuri is of legal age of consent by the time he starts dating Otabek, it would be an abusive relationship because of the power imbalance brought on by their age gap and therefore I cannot support it.”

So this one is…pretty messy, honestly.

I realize that a lot of this comes from people who, themselves, have been in abusive relationships in which an age gap similar to or greater than this one was present and therefore it’s hard for them to sign off on this relationship because it echoes too much of their own experience.

And so first off out the gate I want to say I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m sorry if you’re one of those people, you didn’t deserve the abuse your endured and I hate it for you that you had this god awful experience.

I would, however, encourage you to both realize that your experiences are not universal and to also be critical of how the age gap played a factor.

So, let’s talk about it.

First and foremost, like I said, this is not a universal experience. Although there are a lot of people who are in age gap relationships who end up being abused, there are just as many people who have been in age gap relationships that were healthy.

This is where I urge you to be critical of the age gap itself and realize that the age gap on its own doesn’t make for an abusive relationship.

This is where the defense side chimes in with the notion that if it were true that all age gaps are inherently abusive then wouldn’t Viktor and Yuuri’s relationship be abusive as they have a ~4 year age gap?

The obvious answer is no, it’s not unhealthy for them.

So part of the problem is specifically with the fact that Otabek is a legal adult whereas Yuri is not. Now there again, I see where you’re coming from and I have absolutely no problem if you can’t get behind it on those grounds alone.

However, again, I don’t think there’s really that drastic of a leap between 16 and 18 that would constitute this massive power imbalance that people seem to think would exist between the two.

The issue with older abusers is this: they’re still abusers no matter what age they date. If they dated someone their own age, guess what? They’d still be abusers. Their motivation in seeking someone younger than themselves may very well be because they think it would be easier to manipulate or influence them and sometimes that is the case, but here again, it’s not a feature that’s exclusive to all age gaps and not even ones wherein one person is a legal adult and the other is say 16 or 17.

We’ve all seen the warnings, especially to younger girls, about watching out for older guys who try to pick them up and I think that’s absolutely good advice and you should be wary as hell about that.

However, I’m not going to look at a 16 year old girl and an 18 year old guy and be like, “Mmm, abusive. He’s got power over her, he’s taking advantage.” That may be the case, but it may also not and I wouldn’t know just from looking at their age or the gap between them.

Now 15 and 18, yeah that gets pretty sketchy, I’m not comfortable with that. But 16 and 18? Call me naïve, but that seems somewhat negligible and really needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis because while that situation may prove to be a perfect storm for an abusive relationship, it doesn’t necessitate one on that basis alone.

As a side note, while we’re on the subject of power imbalances I am curious as to how those opposed feel about the power imbalance between Yuuri and Viktor with Viktor acting as Yuuri’s coach. I’m not saying there necessarily is one or that it’s damaging, especially not in the same way teacher/student, doctor/patient, or employer/employee is, but one could argue that their ship should immediately go in the trash because Viktor does have, albeit minimal, power over Yuuri. As their relationship plays out, I think they’ve actually struck a healthy balance between the two of them, but since we’re looking at his from a purely black and white standpoint in which X is always wrong, no matter the circumstances, then I think we need to apply that same logic to the ships we do love as well for the sake of fairness.

But back to the point, in terms of the age gap between them playing a factor into why these two shouldn’t be together, on the one hand I perfectly understand why it makes some people uncomfortable and why they can’t support it and you have my full support in avoiding what makes you uncomfortable. However, on the other hand, I don’t think it’s fair for someone to use their personal experience to try to generalize and make rules for what should and shouldn’t be allowed.

My parents have a 17 year age gap between them. They met when my mom was in her twenties, so nothing is illegal about their relationship, but my dad does have some years on her. However, in terms of their relationship they see and treat each other as equals (although if I’m honest I kinda think Mom more so “wears the pants”, so to speak but shhh).

I’m also witnessing a relative of mine who’s in her early twenties who’s dating a man who is…older than her own mother, so that’s…a thing. And although I don’t know all the ins and outs of their relationship, I am seeing a lot of stuff from her side in which she’s being abusive towards him. She constantly guilts him over certain behaviors, posting dozens of statuses each day that allude to her hurt feelings any time he doesn’t immediately text her back or drop everything to spend time with her. She also employs a lot of the rhetoric of “no one will ever love you as much as I do, so you can go out there and try to find something better, but you never will!” which is like…textbook abuser language.

But she’s younger! She shouldn’t be able to do that, right? Well, she is. She most certainly is and so here again I say, an age gap just on its face doesn’t automatically constitute for an abusive relationship in which the older person takes advantage of and abuses the younger person. While that does sometimes happen and while that may be the motivation of the abuser to find someone younger in order to more easily take advantage, it’s not fair to generalize that behavior to any and all age gap relationships, including those between legal adults and minors (provided that minor is at least at the age of consent because again, I too think it’s pretty ehhhhhhh when you get younger than that, also not to mention, y’know, ILLEGAL, so there’s that).

So, alright we’ve done a loooooot of talking about the hot button issues that come up in this heated debate and hopefully I was able to add a little more clarity to the situation? Perhaps not, but if nothing else this is my take on it and to be clear I’ll reiterate: As Yuri stands now, where canon left him, he is 15 years old and not legally able to consent to a relationship with Otabek who is 18 (possibly 19). Once the show picks back up, however, and Yuri is 16 then he will legally be able to consent to a relationship with Otabek. Whether or not that relationship will be sexual in nature is likely not going to be addressed in canon and left up to fan interpretation in which I know already a lot of people have already stated that even still they wouldn’t have these two start bumping uglies right out of the gate and that for some, they may never due to personal interpretations of their respective sexualities.

But so…here comes the next part and this is where we’re going to pick back up on pedophilia.

Regardless of whether or not these two end up actually getting together or not, regardless of whether or not you wait for Yuri to be 16…he’s still 16.

Now, if you yourself, as a fan, are also 16 then…I guess I can’t really stop you from thirsting over this character, but here is something I can toss your way: don’t create nsfw artwork or fan fiction involving this underage character.

Especially, ESPECIALLY, if you are an actual “grown ass adult”.

Just…stop it. Get some help. That shouldn’t have to be said.

The amount of people thirsting over Yuri’s “Welcome to the Madness” performance who are adults is, frankly, super disturbing. I put some of that blame on the studio itself for having his performance be as provocative as it was, but the audience itself should be able to police themselves into behaving and not going, “Oh wow, so sexy, so hot, wow wow wow!!!”

Being that this skate took place after the GPF, guess what? He’s 15. HE’S 15. YOU’RE SALIVATING OVER A 15 YEAR OLD, CONGRATS! 

I don’t care how much “older” he looks with makeup and his outfit. I don’t care if he had taken all his damn clothes off right then and there, you need to stop with that shit, stop sexualizing this underage character!!!

I get it, he’s not “real”, he’s an animated character, but works featuring him, as a minor, engaging in sexual acts or the sexualization of him (fictional or not) still contributes to a harmful culture that preys on children and adolescents.

Which, to my understanding, is a pretty big problem in Japan and I mean…again, their age of consent is 13. That…really doesn’t sit right with me. I know different cultures have different attitudes about things, but just knowing what I do of psychology, I don’t think a 13 year old can really understand the repercussions or have the maturity level to engage in sexual behaviors, especially not with someone older.

It’s also been found that adults who prey on children will actually use things like cartoons and animations which depict the exploitation of children in sexual situations to convince children that what they’re doing is okay and perfectly acceptable. That’s…really fucked up.

I understand that a lot of people in fandom saying these things or posting these works don’t think they’re doing anything wrong or don’t realize how harmful their actions are, but I’m here to tell ya…newsflash, asshole, depicting minors in sexual situations has been wrong this entire goddamn time!!! Please stop doing that. Please, for the love of god. S T O P.

As far as “aging up” the characters I mean…that’s going to be a divisive issue in which again, I get both sides.

Being that he’s not a real character you can sort of shape him in different ways and part of that involves depicting him as an actual adult. As long as that’s actually conveyed in your work and is perfectly clear then I guess technically there’s not anything legally off about that, although it might not sit right with everyone who feels like that’s still sketchy behavior.

Personally, I’m more comfortable with the aging up thing in fan fiction because fan fiction in general tends to take a lot of liberties away from canon to begin with and so it’s not that hard to envision a Yuri who in a story would be in his twenties.

Then again, I may also be biased because these are my personal thoughts on the ship: As of right now, I don’t see them as anything but friends, perhaps even best friends. I’m happy for both of them that they have someone they feel like they can relate to and being that at least Yuri’s been something of a loner, I’m glad he has someone close to his age that he gets along with so well.

I feel like (and again, this is just me) that as they get older it’s perfectly possible that their relationship may develop into something more and I wouldn’t be opposed to that. I think that once they both have a chance to grow and mature, and again, get better acquainted with one another first as friends, that I could see them having a cute, happy, healthy relationship of which I’d be in support of.

As of right now, though, I don’t ship them romantically. It’s just sort of a parent looking at their kid and their good friend and thinking, “Hmmm, those two might get married some day years and years down the road…” and sort of smiling knowingly to yourself.

Now of course, it’s 100% possible that they don’t. That they remain friends (or perhaps even grow apart, who knows!) but never anything more than that or maybe even that when they’re a little older they try dating, but it doesn’t work out, they make better friends, and so they split. Mother doesn’t always know best and although I personally think of them as a future otp, there’s really no saying for sure until we get something in canon.

But so…these are all my thoughts. Feel free to disagree with me, I understand this is incredibly sensitive subject matter and people have a lot of thoughts and feelings about it, some of which are deeply personal and therefore make this an even more charged discussion.

I apologize if anything I’ve said has contributed to that harm, even if it was indirectly. I’ve tried, to the best of my ability, to look at this from both sides and to take each argument into careful consideration, although I’m just one person and like all people, I can be biased and misinformed, so my word is definitely not law and like I said multiple times, if you simply just can’t get behind the ship because it makes you even the slightest bit uncomfortable, for whatever reason, I encourage you to do what’s best for you and what’s best for your health.

For those in favor of, please don’t insist that anyone opposed “just get over it” or “shut up and let people ship what they want, gosh!!!” It’s really not quite as simple as that and you may be talking to someone who has a personal experience similar to the one this relationship would present that was traumatic for them and it therefore is hard for them to see you being dismissive of concerns that they try to bring to your attention.

That being said, I do realize as well that there are a lot of people who haven’t really sat down and given the situation any thought who are basically just looking for an excuse to yell at someone and so all they want to do is yell, “It’s pedophilia, it’s wrong, you should kill yourself!!!!” even at people who have said, “I’m actually a survivor of CSA and I don’t think this ship is that”.

I think there’s sort of a knee-jerk reaction re: pedophilia discourse to really go into high gear and start chucking things in the trash if it even vaguely looks like that’s what’s going on, but we’re not really doing that discourse any service if we have this sort of reaction instead of stepping back and looking at it from a truly critical and realistic point of view. 

The protection of children and minors is of the utmost importance and should come first before all things, but it needs to be from a rational standpoint otherwise we’re not really benefiting anyone but ourselves as we try to look the most morally upstanding of them all by using sweeping generalizations and condemning situations without really taking them into proper context and consideration. 

In addition to that line of thought, for those who defend the ship, bear in mind that your enjoyment of something doesn’t get to supersede the safety of others. 

As I’ve outlined, 15 year old Yuri and 18 year old Otabek would not be okay.

16 year old Yuri and 18 year old Otabek, however, is legal and it doesn’t really do any good to throw American laws at the situation just because that’s where you’re from because again, these two aren’t from America and the age of consent varies by state, although the most common age is still 16 so really no matter how you slice it that’s what we’re left with.

And, of course, art and fan fiction depicting an underage Yuri in sexual situations is not okay, especially if you’re an adult.

So. This has been a lot of text, a lot of words, a lot of ideas, and a lot to take in, but it’s all important.

I don’t see this as an argument that’s going to go away any time soon, so I wanted to offer up my two cents which no one asked for, but I felt nevertheless compelled to share.

I think people on both sides need to take the time to listen, to try to understand, and to have some compassion. If you’re yelling at a 16 year old kid on the internet to go kill themselves because you think they’re doing something harmful, that’s not really any better than what you’re trying to defend and you need to take a step back. Because although there are plenty (re: too many) problematic adults in this fandom, a lot of fans are actually themselves minors. I promise and encourage you to make your point without having to jump to death threats or telling people to die. There is validity (to a certain degree) on both sides and I hope this ridiculously long post has provided at least a little bit of clarity on the situation.

I think it’s important that we don’t jump to conclusions or take certain ideas to their most extreme i.e. “all age gap relationships are inherently abusive!” and “a 16 year old is a helpless infant incapable of making decisions for themselves and has no business being sexually active!”

While you may be understandably uncomfortable with age gaps and sexually active teens, these are things that happen that aren’t always bad, it’s the context and the nature of the relationship that’s important and while like I said, I’m not wild about the idea of a 16 year old being sexually active (there are also a lot of grown ass adults I’m not wild about being sexually active either as they can be highly immature and irresponsible) I’m also realistic and can understand that there’s a fair chance they will be and that I don’t do that age group any favors by blanketly infantilizing them and trying to deny them that, especially if legally they’re within their rights. I do, however, as an adult have a responsibility both morally and legally to not contribute to the sexualization of said 16 year old.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and please be good to yourself and to each other.  

[katsukiskatsudon]

VICTUURI FICRECS

last updated: 2017-01-30

I’ve read a SHITTON so here we go,,, hope u like it

Will probably be updated semi-regularly as I continue to delve into the ao3 tag.

MULTI-CHAPTER

Maelstrom

by feelslikefire,  43682, time-loop!au

“Victor Nikiforov is poised to win gold in his fifth consecutive Grand Prix Final. He has the world at his feet, is unparalleled in the sport--right up until a snowstorm blows into Sochi, and he finds himself repeating the same day over and over and over. He stumbles over Yuuri Katsuki, and everything changes.”

I absolutely adore this one. There is a quiet and mature tone to it (even though it’s started off by a weird witch lecturing Victor). And the decriptions are so good it felt as though I was there with them. I read the first paragraph and I knew that this was going to be good.

Until My Feet Bleed and My Heart Aches 

by Reiya : wip, 126945 , rivals!au

“Hatred and love are two sides of the same coin and even though everything changes, some things are still meant to be.”

Already a fandom classic, this is a monster of a fic that really handles it’s characters with love. Nothing feels unmotivated and the descriptions are so good it’s crazy. The rivalry is handled beautifully and it exceeded my expectations by a large margin. Emotions done right and very engaging(!). Worth a long and rewarding read.

Constellations (Things You Left Unsaid)

by DasWarSchonKaputt : wip, 22346, role-reversal!au, college!au

“What is Katsuki Yuuri’s greatest asset when competing? If you ask the media, they’ll tell you it’s his flair for artistry, something that shines through in his earnest, winning performances. If you ask Yuuri, he’ll tell you that it’s his coach, Celestino, and the answer will sound as fake as it is.

The truth, though, is something that Yuuri has always known. He wouldn’t be half the skater he is without his prescription for anti-anxiety medication.”

Victor as a 18-year old soon-to-be senior debutant and a master of seduction is right up my lane. Add the long hair and the unwillingness to conform to gender norms and you have perfection. Loving the articles in this fic and use of chats and social media. Cozy college au.

Are you a library book? Because I can’t stop checking you out.

by AriWrote : wip, 8183, bookstore!au

“Yuuri works at his family’s bookstore. Viktor is his favorite author. Somehow he doesn’t realize the cute stranger making eyes at in him in the self-help book section is his idol. Yuri just really wants a break.”

Just as cute and light-hearted as it seems. Phichit is an absolute darling in this and I’ve fallen so hard for Yuuri as a bookworm. Reading this was like the fic equivalent to sipping a pina colada at the beach. Like taking a vacation. Truly lovely.

SkateSquad™ groupchat

by stxmph : wip, 47122 , au

“pikachit added katsukidon, vitya, RussianTiger, Leo♫, and (gay)uanghong to the chat.

pikachit renamed the conversation “ SkateSquad™ ” (groupchat log of the skate squad)”

This fic is (almost) entirely in the style of a groupchat. It’s messy, the author is overly self indulgent and it’s often kind of inconsistent but at times so brilliantly funny it makes the flaws pale in comparison. I’ve been up laughing late at night just because I couldn’t stop reading.

I’ll Give You My Heart

by Aliis : wip, 14009, soulmate!au

“In a world where people’s hearts are displayed on their chests, broadcasting to everyone if you’re looking for your other half or you’ve found them, Victor Nikiforov was a bit of a rock star– he’s twenty seven years old and his heart is still perfectly whole.” 

In a fragmented and poetic way this story is heartaching. Heartbreaking even. It follows the canon storyline somewhat (Victor is Yuuris coach etc) within this very interesting take on soulmates. One of the first fics I subscribed to on aou, which says something, doesn’t it? Over all wonderful and it’s definitely one of my favourites.

when the ice melts in the snow (that's when you'll love me)

by lilithiumwords : wip,  47179, demon!au

“Katsuki Yuuri is the worst incubus in the Underworld. Viktor Nikiforov is his human target.”

Yuuri is a demi-sexual sex demon and have never really felt desire until he gets assigned the human (or is he...) Viktor. (But don’t expect too much explicit sex. We’re seven chapters in and they still haven’t had sex yet). It works. Really well, actually. So well I stayed up way to late because I felt I needed more. My headcanon is that Yuuri is somewhere on the ace scale and I really enjoy when I find someone with the same idea? 

(offer me) that Deathless Death

by melonbug :  wip, 15580, curse!au

“It was the curse he and his family were fated to: Death would come for him the moment he turned eighteen, and he could only hope the flimsy wards passed down through the generations would protect him. But Death always won eventually, Death would snatch him up as he had all of his ancestors.

But somehow he wasn't what Yuuri had expected. He was a constant presence in his life, barely there. A vigilant spectator to his burgeoning skating career, a gray haired man with a soft expression who found him again and again, waiting for him to let his guard down, but becoming something more, over time.

"Don't be careless," his sister told him, but they were all careless, in the end.”

In which Yuuri learns to live with Death over his shoulder. I love the premise and its wonderfully executed. It feels ancient it feels real and the descriptions is sometimes so wellwritten its absolutely crazy. 

Strawberry Bubblegum

by rightofpostponement : wip,  20455, soulmate!au, (semi)canon compliant

“Smile, skate, win. Wash, rinse, repeat. It grew so mundane, after a while. Years and years of being at the top inevitably soured the view, no matter how beautiful. Victor was tired; tired of trying to surprise people, tired of living without love, and tired of making history without anyone to share it with. It takes one night, one dance, and 16 flutes of champagne for Victor's life to be flipped on its head.” 

Cuties! Lovelies! This is basically a collection of sweet, amazing, wonderful romcom cliches. They have a playful pillowfight (that grows intense u kno what i mean), Hiroko embarrases Yuuri with baby pictures. Heck, they even go go disney world! Toothrotting.

Looking for Courage

by icterine : 17035, soulmate!au, college!au

“Victor’s soul rejoices with their meeting. A fleeting attempt to steady a drunken stranger sets his heart afire. It’s all he’s ever dared to wish for. (Yuuri meets his soulmate and forgets.)”

Just as the author says, “there can never be too many soulmate aus…”. Especially if they’re all as well written as this one. The characterization in this is absolutely wonderful. The clueless Yuuri, the hopeless romantic Victor. The pacing is great and I love love love Chris (and Phichit) in this one! 

a great desire to love

by lily_winterwood,  21724, body swap!au

“For some strange, inexplicable, fantastic reason, Yuuri Katsuki and Viktor Nikiforov are trading places. 

Kimi no Na wa AU.” 

I went into this fic having no idea what kimi no na wa even was and boy am I glad I did. I finished this in record time. Intriguing, exciting, action-packed.

The Courtesan

by haganenoheichou : wip,  25,448, courtesan!au, dystopia!au

“Viktor is the most popular Courtesan in Hasetsu House. He is beautiful, he is graceful, he is everything Yuuri has always wanted to be. Except Yuuri is an Untouchable virgin at the age of twenty-three and a universe-class klutz. What happens when Viktor takes an interest?”

This authors worldbuilding is really freaking cool! Some influences from things like ‘Memoirs of a Geisha’ mixed with a dystopian future such as ‘the Hunger Games’ (the civilians clothing and luxiurious customs) with a sci-fi setting. If you, like me, are a sucker for stuff like this (starcrossed lovers with talk of galaxies) it’s pretty awesome.

ONE SHOTS

i have my body (and you have yours)

by astoryaboutwar : 8147, soulmate!au

“Yuuri overflows with the weight of things that have been said, trembles with what remains.Their shared zeroes flicker in time, the early morning light muting the red glow to faint numbers. In the amber dawn, an idol is only just a man.

(Or: the Soulmate Timers AU where things happen out of order, secrets are kept, revelations are had, and they arrive where they need to be in the end.)”

I remember being absolutely smitten when I first read this and I still see why I described it as “words strung together to create a fucking symphony”. It’s poetic, heartbreaking, beautiful. 

the lounge

by fan_nerd :13453, therapy!au

“Dr. Yuuri Katsuki is a psychiatric therapist in Detroit who specializes in alcoholism. The last person he expects to see in his chair is retired figure skater Victor Nikiforov, whom he used to idolize.

Victor is a very different man than the one who’d been subject to the constant flashes of cameras in the prime of his life. He is broken, and so terribly human.

But then, so is Yuuri.”

Strange concept maybe but executed skillfully. Cute story about two lost, middleaged, men who find eachother, Cameo by my favourite mom Yuuko as a sweet tea-drinking 40-year old.

cover story

by fan_nerd :   8210, roommates!au

“Yuuri stares down at the person standing in the doorway. The stranger hisses, “Who do you think you are, anyways?”

Quickly, before he can really think about it, Yuuri responds, “I’m Victor’s boyfriend.”

It’s a lie, but the words feel good in his mouth, and for some reason, he doesn’t want to take them back.”

Yuuri is a workaholic that needs a place to stay. Victor is the playboy looking for a roommate. The relationship is painfully gradual in this but when they do get together, oh, is it sweet. 

leave the banner there

by sixpences :  2904, canon compliant

“"Victor has a crush- a full-blown, goofy-daydreaming, struggling-to-sleep-at-night crush.“

Victor pines, entertains his rinkmates, and wonders what the heck to do with himself.”

Short and sweet read. Pining Victor and fun russian rinkmates. I think I really needed Victors pov post-banquet and this helped me fill the gaps.