#which they made into one of the cores of s2's emotional arc?? HELLO??

[technicalthinker]

Me in 2021 starting episode 1 off Loki: haha wouldnt it be funny if Loki got to kiss Owen Wilson??

Me now:

[kingofthewilderwest]

What do you think of Viggo´s supposed death? The noise he made when falling and the complete lack of dramatic element regarding it make me think he is as dead ad Dagur. It would not surprise me to watch Hiccup attending that Maces and Talons match only to find Viggo has already won and greets him with open arms and something in the line of "My dear Hiccup, it is such a pity you couldn´t arrive earlier. I truly was hoping to compete against you"against you"

Hello, hello! Thank you so much - I’m doing well! I’m moving into a new apartment and it’s slowly coming together. :)

[Quick note on the damselstrid (continued from this post) before I chat about Viggo: The way I usually see Damselstrid dialogue occur within the Hiccstrid community is that either the individual doesn’t mind or they are very frustrated with the portrayal (I see much more of the latter on my dashboard). So I understand what you mean, yeah! It’s frustrating for all of us. As you saw in my previous post, I agree that it’s something that should be addressed and corrected in later seasons. I also guess I’m glad I helped illuminate the sexism within RTTE? The sad thing is I could continue elaborating with many more points… but I hope that, at least with pointing out some of the things, people can be aware it’s there. As much as I love the show, and as much as I will continue to love the show, it’s always good to be aware of the areas in which the show could use improvement, especially in areas of representation.]

As far as Viggo is concerned, I personally actually really hope he’s dead. As much as I love the mind games that Viggo has, and as much as I think he is a unique villain within the HTTYD realm, I don’t think that bringing him “back from the dead” would be the best choice of narrative. Even though there is a point to be made that his death feels, in many ways, anticlimactic and lacking in drama, I also feel as though it would be a poor choice in other writing respects to bring him back. Here are my main reasons why:

1. Back-from-the-dead tropes get old fast.2. Viggo might have a disproportionate number of screen time otherwise.3. Still being alive would be unrealistic.4. Viggo’s ending is fitting to his flaws.5. RTTE S4 wraps up basically everything with the Viggo plot arc.

1. Back-from-the-dead tropes get old fast

Fake deaths are a common narrative device in fiction used to build tension and create audience surprise. When done correctly, it can evoke shock, excitement, or a host of other suddenly-jarred emotions. Correctly done faked deaths can really get the audiences excited. When done incorrectly, though, it can feel like a very worn-out plot device… especially since it is a common trope. 

It’s to note that repeating tropes within a single story - especially tropes with these sorts of high-drama elements - tend to wear out and annoy audiences. It’s not a good plot element to recycle and keep redoing; if ever done, it should be done once for optimal effect. Otherwise, you cheapen both the first faked death and the second, make the plot of the story predictable and repetitive, and rely too heavily on tropish plot devices to carry the narrative “forward.”

RTTE writers have already implemented the back-from-the-dead trope once. It’s what happened with Dagur in S3 to S4. We never saw Dagur’s body at the end of his “death scene” in S3′s Family on the Edge, and indeed, he comes back in the fourth season alive and well. Now, if Viggo came back from the dead, not only would we recycle the same overdramatic plot device… but we’d be pulling the same stunt with two characters in back-to-back seasons. At this point, it would feel much like a worn-out, recycled plot device… rather than giving us some new, more novel twists and turns.

I would MUCH more prefer that Viggo - and Ryker - stay dead for that narrative reason alone.

2. Viggo might have a disproportionate number of screen time otherwise.

I’ve always found it interesting how long a character stays an antagonist in the DreamWorks Dragons shows. The writers tend to have a set time frame in which the villain interacts with Hiccup before we move onto some new enemy. To recapitulate how long villains stayed in conflict with Hiccup:

Mildew: 1 season (ROB; 2 seasons, counting brief appearances in DOB)

Alvin: 2 seasons (ROB and DOB)

Dagur: 3 seasons (DOB, RTTE S1, RTTE S2).

Ryker: 3 seasons (RTTE S2-S4)

Viggo: 3 seasons (RTTE S2-S4)

Now, it is to note that RTTE seasons are half the length of ROB and DOB seasons, and that he only appears visually on screen at the end of RTTE S2… but we still get about the same amount of screen time per villain. At the moment, we have a pretty decent pattern in which the villains come, wreak havoc, but end their plot arcs before their presence gets worn out. We don’t drag out the villain plot arcs in the DreamWorks Dragons franchise.

Now, if we have Viggo return in Seasons 5 and 6, then he would disproportionately dominate much of the narrative throughout the HTTYD franchise. It might feel a little odd that this villain, whose presence has been keenly felt since RTTE S2, would be so prevalent, while the other antagonists would have a disproportionately lesser time being the bad guy.

So purely from a sake of balance, it’d be better for Viggo to be dead, too.

3. Still being alive would be unrealistic.

Race to the Edge is hardly accurate in how it portrays volcanoes. Oh goodness, it is very inaccurate in how it portrays volcanoes. That said, having a character seem to fall down into a volcano still seems like a sure way to perish. We could suggest Viggo grabs onto the side of the cliff or something like that, but regardless, chances of survival are extraordinarily, extraordinarily slim for him. It’s extremely likely he dies here.

Now, people could point out, “We don’t SEE him dead.” Yes, that is true. Nevertheless, would this show actually show a dead character on screen? Would they actually show the character getting impaled or hitting the lava or something else horrendous and graphic like that? Probably not. They’re going to show a character falling down into what should be a sure death without showing their actual death. Sort of like what just happened with Viggo.

Especially given as we see Hiccup watch Viggo fall, and Hiccup’s right there with his eyes glued on the volcano… it makes it a little hard to say that Viggo made it out alive. Look at Hiccup’s horrified expression. It seems he witnessed something directly.

Of course, this doesn’t have to mean that Viggo is dead, but the most they will ever show on screen I believe - for a children’s show like this - is an implied death with the camera focused on the individual (Hiccup) watching it.

4. Viggo’s ending is fitting to his flaws.

One of the things I have always been curious about was how Hiccup and Viggo’s intelligence match would progress. I suspected that, over time, Hiccup would learn how to outmanipulate the manipulator and beat Viggo at his own game - though in a way that demonstrated kindness and mercy rather than a drive for one’s own profit. I suspected that Hiccup would grow from being extremely frustrated about Viggo, feeling as though there’s no way he can beat the villain, to the person making Viggo unsettled and worried. There would be a turn of tides, with Hiccup eventually gaining the upper hand. That was my prediction.

Nevertheless, the fact that this is not what occurred still doesn’t mean it wasn’t an interesting and fitting way to end Viggo’s role as a villain. In fact, Viggo’s ending is fitting to his flaws in multiple respects - both in terms of Hiccup’s interactions, and in terms of Viggo’s character itself.

First, the fact that Viggo never becomes overwhelmingly bested by Hiccup means that Viggo will forever remain as the character who could outsmart Hiccup. Viggo retains his legacy forever, this way, which is actually sort of fitting. We don’t have an all-powerful protagonist who can magically outdo people at their own strengths. We have a villain who still gets defeated, but retains his legacy of his strengths. Viggo’s identity never unravels.

Hiccup still manages to outdo Viggo by throwing away the Dragon Eye, but it’s not an “outhinking”, so much. It shows Hiccup doesn’t have to become Viggo to best Viggo. Furthermore, it shows Hiccup’s growth from being obsessed about the Dragon Eye to the point he endangers his friends (Dragon Eye of the Beholder Part 2)… to being willing to sacrifice it because of the people he cares about - it’s not Hiccup becoming better than Viggo, but Hiccup becoming better at being Hiccup. Then, this event could help Hiccup grow into who he is by HTTYD 2, someone who doesn’t believe he can do everything (since he never got to outdo Viggo at his own game, in full).

Last, what happens is that Viggo’s core identity - that of a manipulator - is what leads to his own downfall. Viggo leads to Viggo’s own fall. It’s Shakespearian. It’s nice. It’s fitting to have him end in the way where his own strengths becomes his undermining weaknesses.

Viggo’s greatest strengths are his control over the dragon hunters, his manipulative abilities, and his desires for profits (which in turn fuels him to hunt dragons, seek the Dragon Eye, and thus clash with Hiccup so adamantly). These are what make him a villain to be contended with against Hiccup. All these things lead to his downfall in RTTE S4.

Viggo’s gripping control is what makes him a leader. But Viggo’s gripping control is what sours his relationship with his brother and turns Ryker against him (debatably - we’ll never know how much of that incident was staged trickery and how much was genuine rebellion). But more obviously, Viggo’s desire for profit and ability to manipulate is what led to his direct end. Viggo tried to manipulate Hiccup with Astrid. That backfired. It led to a situation where Hiccup had to throw away the Dragon Eye. Viggo wanted to get hold of the Dragon Eye - it was his pursuit from start to end of his role as villain - it’s how he could extend his profits as a dragon hunter. But his own drive for the Dragon Eye, the very reason that he was such a contender and dangerous enemy for Hiccup… is what led to him trying to grab the Dragon Eye… and thus falling to his death. 

Had Viggo not wanted the Dragon Eye, he wouldn’t have been an enemy to contend with. But had Viggo not wanted the Dragon Eye, then he wouldn’t have fallen as he did.

So Viggo’s ending is superbly fitting to his character. The reasons why he butted heads with villain and became a dangerous villain are what became his downfall. Viggo brought about Viggo’s own end there at the end of S4. And that’s very fitting.

Now, it’s true that it might have felt anticlimactic in its execution, and I agree, but the concept is really something I can get behind. REALLY something I can get behind.

5. RTTE S4 wraps up basically everything with the Viggo plot arc.

Viggo’s antagonist story doesn’t need to be continued. It is, in many ways, self-contained between seasons two through four. The main plot of Viggo bothering the youths through the dragon hunters and battling over the Dragon Eye is now done. The Dragon Eye is gone, after all. And even the problem of Hiccup needing to best Viggo to save the dragons is finished. Assuming Viggo and Ryker never come back, the dragon hunters won’t harm the dragons any more. The dragon riders have victory in all the areas that they need for the plot arc. They’re not going to be bothered by those dragon hunters again. Story closed.

So there’s no need to extend the plot arc with Viggo. We’ve gotten a full narrative arc with an ending that concludes just about everything that needs to be concluded.

Rather, I would prefer if we spent the next two seasons exploring the new plot device they’ve opened up with Krogan. If he becomes the main antagonist in the next two seasons, then that would make a lot of sense, have room for development, and make for a good lead-in to HTTYD 2 by the end of S6.

Now, the last thing I want to say is that, just because *I* think that it is better plot-wise on many fronts for Viggo to be dead… doesn’t mean he has to be dead. It doesn’t mean that this is the route the writers will take. My comments are not predictive, they’re just what I think would be best for the story were I writing it myself. It’s totally possible for Viggo to make a reappearance. I wouldn’t be all that astonished if it happened. But for me, personally, I want this to be the wraps on the Viggo story arc, for the reasons I outlined above! XD