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#why the rite of rite of ascension is bad regardless of who does it
csphire · 4 months
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Why you should not let Astarion ascend.
Okay keep in mind the following:
1. Mephistopheles the devil doesn't make a deal with Cazador to destroy 7k souls. They are NOT destined to be absorbed by Cazador or Astarion. It might look like that but why would a devil ever agree to let another being do that and turn over power for nothing?
2. The souls are clearly a part of a trade. All 7k souls are going to hell and probably getting minted into soul coins to fuel infernal machines. They will then be destroyed as they power those machines. Keep in mind that's a lot of fuel! A very sudden influx too. If not they'll become cannon fodder or labor for the blood war.
3. Even if you decide to keep Astarion a spawn and kill all 7k vamps some of those souls collected might end up in the hells if they were bad people or left unclaimed by a god or godness. Not as bad as all 7k but still do we want that much blood on Astarion's and the pc hands? To actually be a part of not just killing but destroying that many souls? Many of us would not.
4. True it sucks they'll kill some a lot of innocents but remember keeping them alive keeps them out of the hells. And again, keep in mind that by making Astarion into an Ascendant vampire the pc is pretty much helping Mephistopheles turn the tide of the blood war in the hells. The thing is that's a bad-really bad. The Bad (Devils) and Worse (Demons) need to keep fighting with each other so they don't turn their focus on Faerun.
This is one very pragmatic reason to not let him Ascend regardless of one's feelings towards Astarion. It's a shame the game doesn't spell this out more clearly.
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invokingbees · 7 years
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Bloodborne Lore Ramblings
Here we go again!
THE BIGGEST SPOILERS PLEASE PLAY BLOODBORNE BLIND
The blood, where does it come from? What does it do? Why does it do that? Why has no one copped on yet? These are questions no one in Pthumeru, Loran or Yharnam has ever even considered thinking about. Yes! The blood is old, very old, it's the Old Blood, and Yharnam was not the first civilization to encounter it or be destroyed by it. To learn about the Old Blood, we need to go back to who ruined everything for everyone in the beginning: the Pthumerians. This will be a rather extensive post, I fear. I don't plan these out.
The Pthumerians were an ancient race of prehumans, spooky, pale, tall, thin humanoids with sunken features. Creatures right out of a mediocre Internet creepypasta. They were the first to encounter the Eldritch Truth, the existence of the Great Ones, the Nightmare, eyes on the inside, all that. Pthumerian society seems to have become completely obsessed and centred around the Great Ones, rites such as Marriage only being available to Pthumerian royalty, when they presumably 'wed' a Great One, bearing its child, and also considering themselves as custodians of the Great Ones. The Old Lords of the boss names Keeper of the Old Lords and Watchdog of the Old Lords are most likely the Great Ones. The Labyrinths in which the Pthumerians dwelt hint towards more of their highly ritualized existence. Pits full of corpses, bloody pools, candles just absolutely everywhere, treasure and store rooms draped in cloth and statues, the Pthumerians lived for stuff. And died for it, and un-died for it. It would seem the Pthumerians had their own unique powers over undeath (for all the basic chalice dungeon enemies are emaciated, skeletal and rotting, the Merciless Watchers are covered in open sores and look slick) and, for some reason, fire. If it has fire, it comes from or is ultimately linked to Pthumeru (yes, Maria and by extension the Vilebloods have Pthumerian links).
Pthumeru's downfall is uncertain. Maybe they couldn't keep up with the pace or demands of their ritualized existence. Maybe the effects of the Eldritch Truth were too much for even them to bear. Maybe it was the blood turning everyone into beasts. Maybe it was all three. Pthumeru contains beasts like we know, but also their own unique variations, namely the Bloodlicker (those huge tick looking things) and the Lost Children of Antiquity (those gargoyles). And yes, you find both in Cainhurst. Simply put, Cainhurst wanted to take on the mantle of ancient Pthumerian royalty, didn't really work out so well.
The Old Blood itself is of alien origin. My personal belief is it comes from an Ebrietas, of which Pthumeru has one, in the city of Isz. Perhaps that is the first Daughter of the Cosmos, who knows. I believe this because we're told the source of the Healing Church's special blood is located in the grand cathedral, and who lives there? Ebrietas does. She's right goddamn behind Amelia's boss room. Just out of sight, out of knowledge, is like the whole source of the problem at the very beginning of the game! I don't know what you'd call that, but I think it's neat. Now, you might say, she's found in the Upper Cathedral Ward! Yeah, but that's only how you access that portion of the Grand Cathedral. When you go to pick up A Call Beyond, look over the railing. It's Amelia's boss room.
Anyway, blood, use it, turn into a beast. But this is complicated. First, the actual problem isn't even really the liquid itself, it's what it's IN that liquid – Vermin, the writhing centipedes seen and sought out by those beautiful bastards in the League. Vermin, the root of all man's impurity, seem to be what actually cause us to turn into beasts. It is, after all, a blood borne disease. Perhaps eggs or small, larval forms are carried through, which then grow and cause mutation, or, as it is hinted at in the Beast Roar tool description, it simply awakens something deep within the human form... You find vermin too in Silverbeasts when you kill them, one or two large silvery vermin burst out, and the headless version of the Bloodletting Beast (gotta talk about him too!) has an absolutely colossal one inside of it.
So, use blood, get vermin, become beast. Now you're a beast, what happens next? Well, that takes us to Loran, and land devoured by the sands.
Loran is interesting because it's here we encounter what appears to be beasthood's final phase – electricity. Loran itself has small electrical surges in the air caused by the endless sandstorms generating static electricity. Curiously, this is also present in some of its beasts. The Loran Silverbeasts generate an electrical explosion, as does its big, big brother, the undead Darkbeast, a creature seemingly held together by matted fur and animated by sparks and marrow. Another bolt-based beast is the Abhorrent Beast, who actually seems to have wind-based attacks, much like the winds eternally rushing through Loran. Are these beasts a unique product of their environment? Potentially. But we also find a Darkbeast far from home in Yahar'gul and an Abhorrent Beast in the Forbidden Woods (well a man, who turns into one at least). I think it's fairly safe to assume they're not unique to that place, but Loran definitely got them first.
There's also that pesky piece of description that says that the devouring sands had its roots in the beast scourge. So, maybe after all, bolt beasts and wind powers are a Loran original. But then there's also the idea that Yharnam will be next. Crazy, crazy theory here, but do beasts make wind? Sand? Do they alter an environment to block out Kinhood? If Loran fell like that, and Yharnam's now 99.9% beasts, there's a chance. We do see a lot of stuff floating in the Yharnam air in the evening light...
Beasthood is the anithesis is Insight. Did you know, in-game, the higher insight you have, the harder it is to build up the beasthood meter? The real icing on the cake is the bolt, though. Only one type of enemy the game as an inherent weakness to Bolt – Kin. Kin are people who have been changed by insight, or by experimentation in post-human creatures. It's a sliding scale, then. If Kinhood is the potential in a human for alien ascendancy, then Beasthood is the opposite, degeneration even further from humanity, and an active reaction against it, generating the electricity that Kin naturally fear. It should be noted that those not long off becoming beasts lose their eyes, as the pupils turns to mush, and we all know the more eyes the spookier you get. That's why so many hunters like Gascoigne and Djura, and so many Yharnamites have their eyes covered. It's been posited that Beasthood is like an immunity reaction to an alien element – to the Old Blood, or the alien Vermin. Although possible, I would wonder why Vermin seem to thrive inside degenerating bodies. But Beasthood does seem to be a reaction.
You've got to wonder, three civilizations fell to this stuff now, why did no one ever stop to think that clearly it's causing a huge, irreversible problem? Pthumeru was obviously obsessed, maybe even haughty. Loran, well, there's so little info that it's hard to say.  I get the feeling they were horribly overwhelmed by sickness, beasts and sand. Yharnam clearly was controlled by the theocratic Healing Church, and likely the knowledge was suppressed by those who sought to experiment with it for ascension. I love how Laurence just straight up lied to Willem, though. I will not forget our adage, eh? Yeah, won't forget it, but I will just completely ignore. Good job, Larry.
Lastly, there is again the problem of the Great Ones, specifically one of them – the nameless Moon Presence. It's quite heavily implied that the Moon Presence, or the Bloodmoon, or both (or one and the same) are responsible for this particular apocalyptic outbreak. Old Yharnam saw a Bloodmoon before, a message found near the Charred Hunter set states that a red moon hung low. Nights of the Hunt happen, and are regular occurrences if the casual nature of the NPC dialogue throughout Central Yharnam and the Cathedral Ward are to be taken as such, as well as the mention of 'old beast tales' in the Church Pick's description in the Old Hunter's DLC. They're just not city-ending events. At most a few people god bad, and the hunters deal with it. But tonight is different, tonight the School of Mensis is doing their big ritual to call down the moon with a nightmare newborn as bait.
So how does this work? If beasthood is a reaction against old blood/vermin/alien influence, then just what exactly IS the Bloodmoon doing as it gets closer? What about it causes such a horribly violent reaction in the infection/vermin that causes beasthood to go berserk? Maybe Vermin aren't even alien, maybe they're naturally found in humans and they go nuts when Old Blood is introduced, turning us into Beasts. It's all speculation, but they are regardless the root of man's impurity, and I think it's possible that maybe they really are man's after all. I think it's merely the nature of the Bloodmoon itself, as an alien thing. I think it's because the Moon Presence is a true, proper, alien Great One and as such must be immensely powerful or just immensely other, making the reaction go into overdrive. I don't think that's too far-fetched, because they are called Nights of the Hunt, not days, evenings or dawns, but Nights, when the moon is out, but it's normally so very far away.
There's the belief that the Old Blood might come from the Moon Presence. It's not impossible. Blood is bred through people like Blood Saints who have purer or more power strains. It's bred and doled out via Ebrietas, who I am mostly sure was once a person, or a Pthumerian, but not a Great One proper. It could explain the Moon Presence's connections beyond is just being the most alien creature mankind has encountered, why its presence causes beastpocalypses.
Actually maybe lastly, there's the Bloodletting Beast as a source of the Old Blood. I myself have really nothing to refute this or defend it. He's just too unimportant. He's got a big vermin in him, sure, and in Japanese his name is 'Host of the Beast Blood', which seems pretty damning. But what do his names mean? Perhaps he's the first beast, or the oldest beast. Micolash was the host of the Nightmare of Mensis, but he was just the manager running the show. Being found in Pthumeru, the oldest place we know would surely give the idea of him being one of if not the old beast an edge. Before the DLC people thought he was Laurence, actually. Some still do. I don't think so. We met that asshole.
Of course, beasts also hate fire. Then what in Kos' name are Beast-Possessed Souls and Loran Clerics?! Pthumerians have fire powers, do they keep them? Loran wasn't Pthumerian though! Can they even be counted as true beasts?!
Alas, I am now really truly rambling because we're at that very special point where there's basically no evidence to back a thing I say, but that's why I love Bloodborne. The endless, completely unverifiable lore theories.
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