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crazytogether4l · 1 year

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"Will they?" "Won't They?" Don't Worry My Loves, They Will ;)

Scroll down to see an analysis of who the heck the duffers could be calling a "will they" "won't they" couple. The first section is basically just context with some of my thoughts so feel free to read that as well! <3

On November 5th, a day before Stranger Things Day, the official Stranger Things twitter posted a thread of tweets replacing Steve's iconic 'boobies' quote (I have no idea how else to describe it lol) with various fandom inside jokes and comments like that. Here is the order/content of the tweets!

Okay so, the ships/people mentioned in the previous tweets were Steve Harrington, Lumax (WE LOVE LUMAX, Lucas + Max), Erica, Will Byers, The Byers, JOPPER (WE LOOOVVVVEEEEE, Joyce + Hopper), Murray, Dustin (DUSTYBUUUUNNN), AN ANONYMOUS COUPLE WHICH I WILL TALK ABOUT, and then El.

I find it very interesting that they put the mystery couple directly before el, it's kind of like establishing Els independence for the upcoming season!

Now, what in the world is a "Will they" "Wont they" couple, and who could the duffers be describing?

So this is my understanding of the basic characteristics of a "will they" "wont they" couple;

Romantic chemistry shared by both people

Relationship is threatened by all of the following;

Uncertainty

External obstacles

Internal strife

Romantic tension that remains unbroken or unresolved

Now let's compare this list to different st couples the duffers could be referring to, I'll try and remember all of them but there are a lot so lmk if I miss any! To check the criteria I will name a couple or ship, say their status and go through the criteria as it relates to each! Each couple must meet all the requirements of a "will they" "won't they" ship to be considered as such.

Which ships will I be counting? I mean, the criteria are automatically biased based on my perception of the show, so I'm trying to use solid canon evidence that the couple either is romantically involved or at least one person in the ship is romantically interested in the other. Both characters also have to be a part of the main teams of s4 like either the California (mike will el Johnathan argyle), Hawkins (Dustin steve robin Lucas max nancy erica), or Russia crew (joyce hopper neil murray). (I'm excluding Eddie because he's... well... not a contender anymore). For example, Milkvan would count as a valid ship to consider because , they are dating, but a ship like Dustin and Lucas wouldn't count (only for what I'm trying to do here, ofc I think every ship is valid as long as its respectful, everyone has their own headcanons and I support all of your perceptions of the show ofc <3) because there is no canonical evidence to support this being a possible romantic pairing in the show. Anyway, let's get started, if you have any questions on how I determined if a ship could be considered or not please feel free to message me, I love talking to all of you! Oh also I should clarify as well that I'm only counting ships that have both parties alive (with the exception of max who we aren't sure is alive or not)

Couples I'm choosing not to include (but still meet criteria to be considered): Duzie, dustin and max, robin and vickie (because vickie isn't a part of the main groups and I don't think that their relationship has built up long enough to be considered a wtwtc, however, if you disagree id love to talk about it!)

Color code: True False Is a wtwtc is not a wtwtc

COUPLE Jancy (Johnathan Byers and Nancy Wheeler)

STATUS Dating; They have been dating since season 2 when they got together after an interrogation from Murray. In season 4 they struggled with maintaining the relationship due to the long distance, but when they reunited this was mostly resolved, still some stuff was left up in the air with stancy and all.

CRITERIA (1) Yes there is romantic chemistry (2.1) No, there is no uncertainty with the validity of their relationship. While they may be struggling to figure out how to maintain their relationship, there is no uncertainty about whether or not they are in a romantic relationship. (2.2) Yes, there were external obstacles such as stancy but those obstacles have been resolved and are no longer affecting the couple. For example, will going missing and steve and nancys relationship count, but both of those obstacles have been resolved (2.3) No, there was no notable internal conflict besides shared trauma and anxiety about approaching their feelings for each other. (3) While there is romantic tension between them, the tension was resolved by them getting together and becoming a couple officially

While there is romantic chemistry, the ship did not fulfill all requirements to be considered a "will they" "wont they" couple

COUPLE Stancy (Steve Harrington and Nancy Wheeler)

STATUS Ex's; In season one, Nancy and Steve were in a relationship. They broke up after Nancy called their love bull shit at a high school party. There is some romantic tension again in s4, though it doesn't really go anywhere, at least directly.

CRITERIA (1) Yes, there is romantic tension. Especially in season 4, there are numerous moments of sexual tension. (2.1) Yes, there is uncertainty with the validity of the relationship. However Steve wants to have his "six little nuggets" with Nancy, but we as an audience can visually see how that future doesn't excite her. Steve still loves nancy but nancy does not love steve, no matter how much she hopes she does. (2.2) Yes, there is an external obstacle, Nancy and Johnathan are a couple so that is an obstacle that would get between them from being together. (2.3) No, there are not a ton of moments of internal conflict. Steve potentially likes Nancy again and Nancy doesn't feel the same IMO but even considering that, there is no internal conflict that is a barrier between a platonic or a romantic relationship. (3) No, there is no unresolved sexual tension, as they have already been in a relationship

Jancy does not qualify as a will they won't they couple, they have already been in a relationship, and the romantic tension was already broken so there's nothing new romantically to build up that hasn't already been done.

COUPLE Lumax (Lucas Sinclair and Max Mayfield)

STATUS Ex's, Romantic interests, kinda unclear lol; Max and Lucas got together at the end of season 2, when they kissed at the Snowball. They were dating throughout season 3, however, in the beginning of season 4, we see max isolating herself from the party, and therefore we as an audience understand that Lucas and Max were not together romantically anymore. It wasn't until we see them at billys grave and we also see Max and Lucas together at the Creel house (Lucas asking Max on a movie date) when we finally see them express romantic interest in each other again Not super related but this is a parallel to Jopper with Enzos and the fact that they couldn't go on their date because of multiple obstacles (like Joyce standing hop up to figure out why her magnets weren't working, and hop going to Russia causing everyone to think he was not alive anymore)

CRITERIA (1) Yes, there is romantic tension between Lucas and Max (2.1) While there is uncertainty with what Lumax's future will look like, there is no uncertainty with whether the romantic feelings they have are requited or if they have the potential to be in a romantic relationship because they already have been in a romantic relationship. (2.2) Yes, there is one big external obstacle which is max literally being in a coma lmaooo (2.3) Yes, there are internal obstacles Lucas and Max struggle with regarding their romantic feelings towards each other, especially Max. Max isolates herself after she experiences the trauma of witnessing what happened to billy and she experiences symptoms of vecna's curse, basically she's being vecna'd and that causes her to suffer mentally and therefore she isolates herself from the party, especially Lucas. (3) While there is unbroken romantic tension that came up in s4, Max and Lucas already dated so there is no new romantic tension that could be potentially broken here. "will they" or "won't they" couples are typically built up over numerous seasons, so the previous romantic history between them would disqualify them from being considered a "will they" "won't they" couple.

Lumax can not be considered a "will they" "won't they" couple because they do not fulfill all of the criteria to be considered a wtwtc, and even if they did I don't think that lumax would be the wtwtc they were talking about because they were already mentioned in Stranger Writers' thread as an official ship

COUPLE Mileven (Mike Wheeler and El Hopper)

We already know that Mileven is not a "will they" "wont they" couple because they are already in a romantic relationship, but I'm going to pretend like I don't already know that because its good practice for me to be able to be more open to other perspectives of the show and also I think its important in general to analyze the dynamics of their relationship anyway :)

STATUS Dating; (I am a passionate byler shipper so I will try and be as factual as I possibly can) Mike and El kissed towards the end of season one but didn't get together again until the end of season two when they finally went to the snowball together. El dumped his ass in season 3, Mike said "I love her and I can't lose her again" in a heated fight with the group, and they got back together at the end of the season when El said she loved him too and kissed him. In season 4 we see them struggle with managing the distance as well as discovering their own identities. Mike has trouble saying 'I love you' to el (he is discovering his sexuality simultaneously... regarding his feelings for will), and El is not receiving the type of love she wants and needs from mike. At the end of the season, we see mike and will stand together and El stands alone, which foreshadows an independent El for season 5.

CRITERIA (1) This is something that is super controversial in the fandom, and as a byler supporter I personally don't think that there is any romantic tension between mike and eleven, but I will try and look at it from multiple perspectives.

As a byler supporter, what I see is a longing for romantic feelings, especially from mike. Mike wants to fit in and his role models are nancy and his parents, both of which have been in toxic relationships and fake love (stancy) and that is all mike knows about romantic feelings. In season one people continue to accuse mike of having romantic feelings for el. When Mike first meets el, he treats her kind of how he would treat any other peer, like showing her his toys and being nice and letting her sleep in his basement. The romantic implications of that don't even cross his mind until Lucas and Dustin point them out. There is a huge difference between the was Lucas and Dustin interact with el, and the way mike does. Lucas and Dustin think, oh this is a girl, omg a girl in mikes basement. But mike is focused on finding will, and El could lead him closer to finding him. Mike claims that he has always loved el, but he literally tried to get her to go back to where she came from in their first few moments together. Like we don't see Mike actually push for El to stay until she recognizes will in that photo. Lucas, dustin, even his older sister Nancy all ask him if he likes el romantically. I think this gets in his head a lot, which causes him to kiss her at the end of the season. In season two at the end of the season we see mike sulking at the snow ball. I think mainly this kind of had to do with the fact that will was out dancing with a girl and he felt jealous feelings but didn't understand why or what that meant. That is my perception because of the headcanons I have of byler but if I'm looking at it from a mileven perspective then it was because he assumed she wasn't coming. Personally, I don't think this is why because he knew she was back in town and she was okay and there must have been some communication about whether or not eleven was actually going to the snow ball but either way she showed up and we see his face change. Then right after we see El walk in and I think he uses the shame from his jealousy to motivate him to do romantic things with el, but that could just be my opinion because thats what I believe in my head lol. For el, she only really starts expressing romantic interest in mike after she starts watching soap operas. Mike kissed her in s1, and when she sees couples kissing on the tv in s2, she has a realization that maybe that was something couples do so that means that she likes mike... right? Or does she have this thought because she doesn't have any other exposure to what romance actually looks like? Its an interesting question to dive into, and I'll go in more detail in a future post if anyone would be interested in that. I think something that is very telling is the mileven breakup in s3. This scene has been analyzed over and over again, but in general, the way she says "i dump your ass" so easily and then laughs about it on the bus with max is very telling. Like idk about you but if I was supposedly in love with someone it wouldn't be that easy to just dump them and then giggle about it a few minutes later. In s4 we see el being very inauthentic, like for example she looks at the note on the flowers that says "from mike" and then puts on a fake smile. And over the season we kind of see this fake smile start to break down until she stops talking to mike altogether at the end of the season. At the end of the season El knows that Mike can't give her the love she needs. The fact that he says I love you, which is what El wanted to hear, but she still gives mike the silent treatment after his confession and we don't see them talk for the rest of the season? Like I love you is what she thought she needed but it didn't fix anything because she knew they were just empty words said in the heat of the moment, just like how he said "I love her" in the heat of the moment in season 3. There is soooooo much to talk about, especially in season 4 and season 3, so let me know if you want more of this because I have a lot to say but I should get back to the topic of this post <3

(2.1) No, there is no current uncertainty regarding the validity of their relationship. As an audience, no matter if there is a deeper meaning or not, we know that el has said I love you to mike and mike has said I love you to el. No matter if those words are true or not, we as an audience are expected to believe this as canon and therefore their romantic feelings for each other are not uncertain after Mike said I love you to el. (2.2) Yes there have been external obstacles, however, at the end of season 4 these are all resolved to our knowledge. El is back in hawkins with mike. The only other obstacle I can think of is will, but neither el nor mike are aware of his feelings for mike, so I would save this for a potential season 5 obstacle. (2.3) Yes, there are internal obstacles. Mike is having a hard time saying I love you to el because of internal hardships regarding his sexuality, and el is not receiving the love that she wants or deserves from mike. This is the opposite of a will they won't they couple, this is incompatibility and its obvious. (3) No, there is no unresolved tension. Mike and el have both said I love you, kissed, and had a relationship, there is no tension that needs resolving anymore, if anything their relationship is getting boring at this point IMO (no hate to milevens at all you all are totally allowed to love your ship <3)

No, Mileven is not a "will they" "wont they" couple because they have already broken the tension that is needed to be considered one and they are already in a relationship

COUPLE Jopper (Joyce Byers and Jim Hopper)

STATUS Dating; I think Jopper has always been a will they wont they couple. There has been romantic tension with them since the beginning. Joyce has always been comfortable just walking over to hopper, speaking her mind. We see them start to form an emotional bond over season one. Then throughout the seasons, they get closer which leads up to hopper asking Joyce out on a date and they plan to go to Enzo’s but the plan changes when hopper disappears to Russia at the end of season 3. Season 4 they reunite in Russia and release all the sexual tension by making out in the warehouse thing. It’s a lot more beautiful than that but I have a migraine and can’t think of a poetic way to write that lol.

CRITERIA (1) Yes, there is soooo much sexual and romantic tension between joyce and hopper!!! Literally in every single season, especially season 3 and the end of season 4! Theres no other explanation needed :) (2.1) No, there is no uncertenty with whether Joyce and Hopper like each other romantically or not. We know that both of them like each other and they both have expressed romantic interest in each other. (2.2) I mean besides bob in season 2, and basically the entire world ending, there arent too many outside obstacles currently at the end of s4. Hopper was like kinda gone in another continent for most of the last season though so that counts. (2.3) Yes, there are internal struggles. Hopper struggles with grief and for most of season one and two joyce was emotionally unavailable due to the trauma of losing her son and people telling her she was crazy. Both of these characters love each other, but they are both so scared of losing the ones they love that they love, they cant bare to give all of their love to each other just to have It ripped from them all over again.

This is off topic but this inspired me to talk about loss throughout the show, which is centered around loss. Thats what its all about. The first ten minutes show a a family, a friendgroup, even a whole town that is greatly affected by the loss of a boy. Especially in season 4, I think that the major theme throughout the show was the fear of loss, especially around the idea of love whether it be platonic love or something more. Max distanced herself from the group, partially because she was afraid of causing even more pain and loss than she felt she already had. El was so scared of losing mike, like we can see her desperately trying to be worthy of his love. She wrote to him like every day, she lied to seem cooler than she was, she faked smiles to make sure everything was perfect. Mike is probably the one most affected by the fear of loss in my opinion. His best friend went missing and he thought he was dead, then el went missing, then will almost died again in season 2, then el almost died in season 4, like the amount of times mike has had to deal with the idea of his friends leaving him is very sad. I think a lot of this stems from his childhood. Will is also scared of losing others, especially his sister and brother and mike

(3) No, the tension was broken when they kissed in season 4 lmao. Also when they kept talking about their date. This was a hard couple to debate on, especially since they were a will they wont they couple in the past, but I think because they already broke that tension, and its canon that they have romantic feelings for each other and they have done romantic things together, there is no uncertainty if they like each other more than platonically. I think that jopper is like the original "will they" "wont they" couple, and then that romantic tension was broken and now they're just a slow burn romance! Ugh I love them so much I could talk about them for hours :) If anyone wants to talk about them id love to!

This was a difficult one to determine but since there is no uncertainty with whether their romantic attraction is requited, and the romantic attraction has been acted on, I do not think that they can be considered a "will they" "wont they" because like, they already DID if that makes sense!

COUPLE BYLERRR! (Mike Wheeler and Will Byers)

STATUS Best friends, potential love intrests, gay as hell; Its currently canon that Will is in love with Mike (confirmed by noah schnapp), however it is not yet canon if mike is romantically interested in will (even though it couldn't be more obvious). There is sooooooooo much romantic tension between the two, not to mention the COUNTLESS parallels between them and other couples from the show. Not only just from stranger things, but actual canon gay couples from OTHER SHOWS! Like the duffers put a lot of thought into their parallels. Its truly beautiful, like they are the best slow burn gay romance in all of tv history. Its undeniable.

CRITERIA (1) YES OH MY GOD! There is soooooo much romantic chemistry between the two! Like especially from mike.

BEST FRIENDS DONT LOOK AT EACH OTHER LIKE THAT! tHEY JUST DONT! THEY ARE BLUSHING LIKE NO BODIES BUISSNESS AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT EACH OTHERS LIPS AND THIS INTIMATE MOMENT IS BROKEN SUDDENLY, JUST LIKE SO MANY INTIMATE MOMENTS IN THE SHOW!

Like, come on... theres just so much evidence that they are in love, not to mention all of the "intimate moments" and parallels to other couples. I could go on and on! (2.1) Yesssss there is uncertainty and loooaadddssss of it! The beautiful thing about byler is its up to interpretation. Neither of them just comes out and says out front they are in love, will uses el as a cover for his own feelings, and mike just is scared to be vulnerable about how he feels because of external and internal homophobia. Both of their romantic feelings for each other are shown not only through just words and physical communication, but also through symbols, set, lighting, music, etc. Their story is left up to interpretation because that's just accurate to the time. We are unsure if both of them love each other canonically, but we can feel it, that's the beauty of the show. We know that will is in love with mike. Thats canon. But mike, mike's story is so accurate to the struggle of growing up as a gay kid, and many adults who have grown up in the 80s have said that they identify themselves with mike and wills story! Like as a queer person who grew up with similar feelings to mike and will, its just beautiful to watch their love story unfold despite all of the obstacles they face. (2.2) EXTERNAL OBSTACLES! SO. MANY. EXTERNAL. OBSTACLES. I mean, this is a gay love story about two gay boys in the 1980's, a time when homophobia was experiencing a spike due to the HIV crisis and hate crimes and everything of that sort. And not to mention that mike is in a relationship with wills sister, so even if mike broke up with el, will getting together with his sisters ex boyfriend is kind of a betrayal to her so there's a sense of guilt or shame that's added on top of the feelings he is already having. And for mike, he has to navigate the fact that he cant say I love you to his girlfriend because he already loves will. Also he doesn't know will loves him so he assumes that he has no shot with him anyway. Not to mention all of the supernatural struggles that come with their feelings for each other. Like in season three and two, a lot of the times mike and will have an intimate moment he then feels vecna. Also the fact that will is literally being brainwashed by vecna for like half the season. Also the bullying in seasons one and two when the boys, especially will, have been called homophobic slurs their whole life. This causes shame and guilt for who they are, which makes them hesitant to acknowledge their feelings for each other.

(2.3) INTERNAL OBSTICLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! SOOOOO MANY! First of all internalized homophobia, which mike sufferers from a lot! Its shown throughout the show in so many ways. First of all, mikes relationship with el is kind of an avoidance tactic for mike, as well as a safety tactic. He uses his relationship with el to convince himself that he is in fact straight and he does everything he can to be perceived as straight, even by himself. For will, there is so much shame that has been thrown at him his whole life. Not only from his father but his peers. He has been bullied his entire life and so has mike, they have experienced homophobia their whole lives, which has caused them to believe that they themselves are the problem. And there's a whole other struggle that especially affects mike, which is heteronormativity. The minute he showed el any kindness at all, everyone started asking him if he liked el and were calling her his bf and stuff like that. Hes lived in this headspace that in order to be seen as 'normal', he has to be straight. Like he thinks that getting a girlfriend and giving up on the 'childish' things he enjoyed as a kid like dnd is all a part of growing up. There's just so many internal struggles with both of them, especially in regard to their romantic feelings for each other. (3) No, the romantic tension has not been broken yet! There is sooooo much tension and so many scenes where they seem like they are about to kiss or about to confess their feelings, but they are interrupted by a person, a noise, etc. They are so in love I love them so muchhhh! Like for example the bedroom scene when they're like "I didn't say that" and mike is like "you didn't have to". Like that scene is a direct parallel to another gay ship that KISS after they exchange their little "cool", "cool". But for byler that tension is interrupted by the van arriving, like there are so many examples of this throughout the show! I could go on and on about byler so let me know if you want me to discuss this more :)

Yes, Byler is a "will they" "wont they" couple! While many of the st couples have fit under the "will they" "wont they" umbrella at some point in the show, the unknown romantic aspect of their relationships have all been resolved except for byler! And even if jopper counted as a "will they" "'wont they" couple, the st twt still mentioned them in the thread before they mentioned the will they wont they couple, so it wouldn't make sense for jopper to be referred to twice in the same way.

So to kind of summarize all of those words, byler is the only "will they" "wont they" couple in present-day stranger things canon, which therefore is EVEN MORE evidence that byler will be end game. Especially because the way the line is used in the first place, like steve saying that Vickie obviously likes women, and then that being true in the end, it shows how byler is also true and it will happen! I hope all of this made sense! Sorry this is pretty delayed after the thread came out, I've been so busy and also trying to add to this post as much as I could over the past few weeks haha. If you have any fun things to add or stuff you want to discuss please do! I always love talking to you all. As always, much love to everyone <3

#will byers #byler canon #byler proof #byler edit #i love byler #byler is canon #byler exists #Duffers explain #Stranger things Twitter #Will they wont they #will they wont they trope #cinematography #stranger things 5 #byler

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