#yes when Jo asks if demons ever tell the truth Dean says yeah sometimes

[freakwiththeknifecollection]

It's kinda laughable to me when people bring up Meg telling Jo that Dean only saw her as a little sister as like, definitive proof that's how he felt. Like demons never lie just to fuck with people

[sarimaposthumous]

The High Priestess Chapter 2

The High Priestess Chapter 2

TITLE: The High Priestess CHAPTER NUMBER: 2/? AUTHOR: SarimaPosthumous GENRE: Supernatural FIC SUMMARY: Jenny is an OC set in the Supernatural universe. She has owned a bar called the High Priestess for nine years and has managed to carve out her own niche in the hunting world. Everything changes when the two notorious hunters show up in her life after she’s managed to avoid them. RATING: M (Violence) WARNINGS: Slight Season 14 Spoilers AUTHORS NOTES:  Flashbacks take place around Season 5, however, it mostly takes place in the present. There is collaboration between @spnjediavenger in our fics as our Original Characters cross paths from time to time. Please provide feedback!

Chapter 1

“Elliana!” I exclaimed as she ran passed Sam and Dean Winchester to give me a hug. “You’ve certainly changed,” I gently grabbed her arm and pulled her towards the back. She looked behind her and shook her head so Sam and Dean wouldn’t follow us. I pulled her into my office as they settled at the bar. “Look Elliana, I am glad you’re here, but I had asked you not to bring the Winchesters.”

Ellie closed her eyes and let out a sigh before responding. "I know, I’m sorry. But with everything that’s been happening the past couple years, they weren’t exactly taking 'no' for an answer!” she said with exasperation tracing her features. "I really do love them, but their protectiveness really gets annoying sometimes," she continued.

I too let out a sigh and motioned for her to sit down as I sat down next to her. “It’s okay, I’m not upset with you. They were bound to find out about this place one way or another.” I paused, “So what brings you guys here? Is it the whole Michael situation?”

A small smile tugged at her lips. "Yeah the Winchesters are a bit hard to avoid these days," she laughed lightly. "But yes. It seems like everything we do and everything we try, we come up with nothing. And we know you have a big hunter network."

I ran my fingers through my long hair. “Well, I haven’t heard anything about him through grapevine...at least not since he left Dean. All I know is that there are monsters gathering and waiting for him to return.” I paused to look at Elianna. I could tell that the mere mention of Michael and Dean had made her uneasy. It was evident that it was a rough time for her.

It had been around 9 years since I had last seen her, and she’s certainly matured since then. She was only 13 and had already been on a few hunts when we first officially met. A year prior to this she came across the High Priestess scrawny as ever before Shane had passed, but Shane could not convince her to stay. She only returned when she thought the Winchesters abandoned her. So, she set out and continued hunting until she came across the High Priestess where I informed her that Sam and Dean were looking for her. Elliana stayed for a few days to decide whether or not she would try to find them. I tried convincing her otherwise considering they had just gotten Ellen and Jo killed while hunting Lucifer, but she was stubborn and went to find them anyway.

Looking at her now, her tall figure became a bit more muscular from nearly a decade of hunting. She was anxiously fidgeting with the keychain she keeps hooked to her belt loop. I vaguely recalled her seeing her with it when we first met. Bags had formed under her eyes from the current struggles she and the Winchesters were dealing with, but her dark brown eyes still had that small spark in them. This made me hopeful that she was keeping the bright side in mind and hope that things will turn around. She still kept her dark brown hair cut short to frame her face. 

“Frankly, I’m surprised you’re still alive and made it this far with them,” I joked knowing full well she more than capable of taking care of herself.

Ellie smiled at this comment. “The Winchesters may get caught in some pretty crazy shit – I’ll give you that. But it’s only because they try to do what’s right,” she replied, glancing fondly towards the door. “But I don’t think I’d be alive if I didn’t go with them. I’m sure Shane must have told you I had some marks on my head too…” her last sentence hung in the air for a bit as she remembered the circumstances that had brought her into hunting all those years ago. She lowered her eyes for a moment before snapping her attention back to me. “They sure attract trouble sometimes, but damn do I love them. They, Cas, and Jack are my family,” she continued with a loving smile.

I nodded. “That’s a fair point, I’m just glad you’re still alive. Let’s go see what they’re up to.” I followed Elliana out of the office and we found the Winchesters playing pool. “Sam and Dean Winchester. I see you’ve finally found this place.” I signaled to Elise to bring two more beers for myself and Elliana.

Sam looked at me, his eyebrows furrowed quizzically. “I just don’t understand how we haven’t heard of this place yet.”

Raising a brow, I retorted “perhaps you’re not as smart as you think you are.” I had to keep myself from laughing at Dean’s incredulous expression. Waving my hand, I smiled. “I’m kidding! Honestly, I’ve gone out of my way to ensure this place stays off your radar.”

“What did we do to you?” Dean asked, slightly offended.

“Well, it’s because the Winchesters have a tendency to get any hunter who works with them killed. Hell, my predecessor Shane lived solely because he didn’t go on that hunting trip with your father and Bill Harvelle. So, I’ve asked any hunters or patrons in general to avoid talking about this place if they run into you.” Elise arrived with the beers and I handed one to Ellianna. “How much have you told them about this place, Ellianna?” I asked before taking a sip.

She politely refused the beer, so Dean took it from Elise. Ellie looked at me and said, “Thanks, but I don’t drink.”

“I still don’t know how we get along,” Dean joked, smirking at her and nudging her elbow causing her to roll my eyes and turned back to me. “Honestly, I haven’t told them too much. I knew you and Shane wanted to keep it under wraps so I was just vague up till now. When I mentioned how I came into the life, I didsay I got some help from the owner of a bar, but I didn’t specify anything else,” she shrugged.

“Wait,” Sam interjected. “That was thisplace?”

Ellie nodded, “Shane and Jenny helped me a lot in the beginning. Even though I didn’t stick around for long.”

“I know you don’t exactly have a high opinion of us,” Sam said as he turned to me. “But thank you for being there for Ellie. I’m grateful she had someone to trust in the beginning,” he finished, throwing a loving, brotherly smile towards Elliana.

I nodded at Sam and raised my beer before taking another sip.

“So, Jenny, how did you and Shane get into the hunting business?” Dean asked. “Same as anyone else,” I shrugged my shoulders. The trio looked at me expectantly. “...Tragedy.” They continued to stare. Sighing, I signaled for them to follow me to a table in the back corner. As we settled in, Elise brought Ellie some water.

Clearing my throat I explained how some demons targeted my family and Shane saved me, but one of them escaped. Then that same demon came and killed Shane. He left the business to me and I revamped it by turning the entire bar into a safe room. “Don’t let the rustic, wooden panels fool you, underneath it all is solid iron and salt. It’s also completely warded so that any supernatural creature that comes in here is powerless save for their physical strength.”

Dean whistled, and Sam looked impressed. “How did you afford all of this?” Dean asked. “I also trade and procure priceless artifacts...as long as no one gets hurt other than the buyer who knows and accepts all of the risks,” I said. “And of course, Bobby helped me plan this,” I mentioned.

This surprised Sam and Dean. “I’m still surprised we haven’t run into you or heard of you,” Sam said. I looked over at Ellie and she remained quiet. She and I both knew it wasn’t our place to discuss Shane’s misfortunes, so I changed the subject. “As for why you’re here, “I continued, “I haven’t heard anything new about Michael. Just that his monsters are waiting for him to return.” This unsettled the Winchesters. “Is that the only reason you’re in town or is there something else?”

"That was most of it," Ellie spoke up. "We were picking up a couple cases with Jack since we haven’t been able to do anything about Michael. But now we're gonna hang around Cleveland for a few days because I finally convinced everyone to take a break for once – especially Jack. He works too hard trying to prove himself. It’s about time he had some fun.”

Sam and Dean smirked at Ellie’s mention of Jack eliciting an annoyed huff from her before she continued. “Seriously, I swear you guys are 5 years old!” She replied exasperated as she rolled her eyes before taking a drink of the water that was set in front of her.

I laughed at Ellie’s increasingly red cheeks as she stared at her water. It was getting later in the night, and the patrons were dwindling. “Well if you’re going to stay in town you are welcome to stay here if not, you’re welcome anytime.”

“No, we should be getting back to the motel, I’m sure Jack misses Ellie. God forbid they stay apart too long,” Dean smirked. I couldn’t help but let out a laugh.

“Thank you for your hospitality,” Sam said as I exchanged numbers with the three of them.

“Also, let me know if you need help with a hunt. Either I can pitch in or I can send someone else,” I conceded.

“I’ll keep that in mind,” Dean winked at me as I rolled my eyes at his impish grin.

The trio headed out the door, but Sam paused before exiting. “Actually, as I’m sure you’ve heard, we’re missing Nick. You haven’t heard from him at all have you?” I paused before shaking my head. “Well if you hear from him can you give us a holler?” I nodded in response and watched them leave the bar.

Letting out a sigh, I walked back to my office as Padma yelled out the last call. The truth was I had seen Nick and knew what he was doing as I had been helping him. But he was adamant that I not disclose his whereabouts to the Winchesters, so I respected his wishes. Little did I know, he was on his way.

[mittensmorgul]

I think one of the things about SPN that is so interesting is... characters lie. All the time. And we aren't always given obvious reasons to suspect they're lying until later when they say something contradictory. I saw a post the other day about Rowena and how she'd mentioned Crowley was conceived during an orgy (something I'd forgotten) and it occurred to me with later information we had... that doesn't sound likely if she knew who the father was and was abandoned by him. (1/2)

This has a point that's relevant, sorry. What I was referring to is the post about Becky and how we don't know why she and Chuck broke up because there is conflicting info, so we have to make our best guess. In a weird way, "canon" isn't canon, because a surface text reading doesn't account for characters being disingenuous. We aren't told which is the lie and which is the truth every time, we kinda gotta figure it out for ourselves using what we make of the characters and additional context(2/2

Hi there! And if this isn’t a potentially loaded question, I don’t know what is. And it’s something that’s even been raised as a question in text on multiple occasions, which makes it a valid thing for us to question and carefully consider. You may have seen this old post I reblogged a little while ago with an addition about context:

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/162709800125/mittensmorgul-i-offer-this-up-as-a-metaphor-for

Congrats, you’re the anon I was referring to in the little blurb at the bottom of that post :D

I’ll start by saying that yes, we know the characters are capable of lying. In 6.03, Dean tells this to Ben in plain words:

Dean: Ben, I know you're lying... Because I lie professionally, that's how. Now tell your mom that you broke the damn thing and take it like a man. Okay? Okay.

He lies professionally. In 5.03, he explains why he lies to Cas, by lying about it:

Dean: Seriously? You're going to walk in there and tell him the truth?Castiel: Why not?Dean: Because we're humans. And when humans want something really, really bad, we lie.Castiel: Why?Dean: Because that's how you become President.

Dean’s explanation of why they were going to lie to the cops was also a lie. Walking into the police station and politely informing them the gas station explosion was caused by an archangel taking his vessel would’ve resulted in them being either laughed out of the police station or locked up on a 72 hour involuntary psychiatric hold. Yet Dean didn’t need to explain that to the audience, because we’re supposed to understand that fact. That’s where critical thinking skills come into play. We understand the humor of what he said to Cas anyway, without having to be led by the hand and told that Dean was joking there.

So I’d argue with your assertion that “Canon isn’t canon because characters lie sometimes.” It’s all still canon, because the characters DID say these things, but it’s up to us if we accept or reject the surface text reading as honestly intended dialogue, or sarcasm, or humor, or a misdirection, or a warning that there’s something deeper happening beneath the surface layer text. Sometimes the surface layer text sets off alarm bells because it directly contradicts other facts that have already been established, and in those moments we’re SUPPOSED to react by yelling out at the TV, questioning the character’s motives for saying something we already understand to be incorrect, you know?

It’s still incorrect to assume that EVERYTHING the characters say is a lie, or untrustworthy, or unreliable. Just because a character CAN be unreliable as a narrator doesn’t mean that they’re ALWAYS unreliable as a narrator.

It’s our jobs as viewers to apply critical thinking skills, combined with our previously established understanding of the characters, and the information we already have about the situation the characters are dealing with on screen, and then interpret the subtext and visual narrative cues the show has established over more than a decade of telling us this story, and not just make willy-nilly random assumptions about scenes, but incorporate ALL of that into an educated assessment of what’s most likely.

Because despite all of that ^^, and the fact that multiple interpretations are certainly possible, and character motivations and unverifiable statements (like Rowena’s story of how Crowley was conceived, or even Crowley’s story of having sold his soul for “an extra three inches below the belt” since that’s another character statement I’ve personally always doubted) are more open to potential interpretation than things like entire plotlines and situations that are directly contradicted by events we have seen or will see with our own eyes, not all interpretations of those larger events are equally probable.

It reminds me of the scene in 2.14, after Sam-possessed-by-Meg told a very one-sided and hurtful version of the story of how her father had died, having been shot in the head by John Winchester, leaving room for Jo to doubt whether it had been an accident that her father could potentially have survived if John had tried to save him instead of shooting him. Meg was deliberately trying to upset Jo, and it worked, to an extent:

JO: I know demons lie, but ... do they ever tell the truth too?DEAN: Uh, um, yeah, sometimes, I guess. Especially if they know it'll mess with your head. (Another swig.) Why do you ask?

Thing is, your very first assumption there, that the characters lie all the time, is equally untenable. Because just as often as they lie, they DO tell the truth. Not everything they say is equally open to interpretation or doubt. For a random fun-fact, like the situation in which Crowley was conceived, didn’t affect the larger narrative. It only provided characterization for Rowena. This was how she CHOSE to present herself when we were first introduced to her, but then we watched her character develop over the next few seasons. We began to understand her, her history, her motivations.

We saw her less as a carefree villain and more as a woman who’d been used, abused, wronged, and who’d reinvented herself multiple times as she amassed the power to not only take back control over her own life, but in search of revenge against those who’d wronged her. In 11.09 we learned the painfully harsh truth about why she may have originally been so flippant about Crowley’s father. And again in 12.11 we learned yet more reasons why she’d carefully crafted her cool facade, during her conversation with the witch who’d once thought of Rowena as little more than a disposable sex toy. So understanding Rowena’s history with the benefit of later canon and context, it not only helps us understand that her original self-narrative was a lie in the first place, but it gives us the ability to understand why she would’ve told that particular lie about herself. This is how you write complex, three-dimensional characters with depth.

Now with the Chuck and Becky situation, we have learned many things over the years about both of those characters, as well. Ultimately it doesn’t matter to the narrative why they broke up, nor does it matter whether Becky was telling the truth about why. The only thing a varied interpretation on whether she was lying there could potentially change is how we feel about her as a character. Do we sympathize with her? Do we have a greater insight into her as a “person” and what her motivations in life may be? Does a varied interpretation also affect the way we view Chuck as a character, especially when taken through the lens of late s11 Chuck episodes where it’s confirmed not only that he was God all along, but also in 11.20 we see through Metatron’s questioning of him, his motivations, his entire autobiography, that Chuck was sort of veracity-impaired as well? Being able to question the veracity of Becky’s statements all those years before lends us a greater understanding of Chuck as a character, too. Especially once we understand the depth of his denial over the original act that made all of creation possible in the first place.

Ultimately it doesn’t affect the larger story, other than to support our understanding of the characters, and offer a depth to explore the characters more fully.

That’s just good writing. It forces us to question things, forces us to really think about things, and hits us on an emotional and sympathetic level that colors our interpretations.

If the narrative just came straight out and told us all these things, it would be boring. The characters wouldn’t be three dimensional. We wouldn’t be able to think about them as if they were real people. They’d just be paper cutouts with words written on them telling us exactly who they were and what their motives and intentions were. There’d be nothing to actively engage us in the narrative.

That said, this is why looking at isolated incidents out of context of the rest of the things we already know and understand about the characters will often lead to wonky interpretations that don’t really work when viewed in context with the rest of the narrative.

I think this kinda-sorta addresses your question? I hope? This is such a difficult topic to discuss, because it does introduce subjectivity into the narrative. The thing is (and this is partly where the concept of “meta” differs from “headcanon” or “speculation”), at least the way I approach it, meta is grounded in postmodern literary critique, and not just random commentary on random things without a foundational understanding of how stories are told.

Not everything is as open to interpretation as everything else. There are rules to this gig, and actual meta will at least acknowledge that those rules exist. :P