#youngflappsychicpickle

[ottomanladies]

Hello, thank you for your good blog

Why was Prince Beyazid not buried in Bursa? I read somewhere that Suleiman ordered him to be taken to Istanbul but was suddenly buried in Sivas.

Peirce says that Bayezid and his sons were denied a burial place in Bursa, presumably by Süleyman himself:

Bayezid and his sons were interred outside the walls of Sivas, an eastern Anatolian provincial capital. The site was presumably chosen to avoid a train of coffins traveling across Anatolia that could rekindle partisan agitation. — Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire

I really doubt that Süleyman had asked for Bayezid's body to be taken back to Istanbul, as he had died a rebel.

Princes were usually buried in Bursa but Süleyman broke tradition only for his sons who had died of natural causes: Mehmed and Cihangir. Not only were they buried in Istanbul but mosques in their names were erected.

Mustafa — another rebel — was buried in Bursa as it was customary to do but without a mausoleum until Selim II paid for it.

Bayezid's situation was different from Mustafa's too in that he had sought refuge at the Shah of Persia's court. To get him back, Süleyman had had to pay the Shah:

The sultan was forced to pay the shah a steep price to recover his wayward prince: the fortress of Kars on the Ottoman-Armenian border and 1.2 million gold florins. — Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire

I don't think Süleyman was in the mood to ask for his body to be taken back to Istanbul, to be honest. I think his burial in Sivas was dictated also by irritation.

[ottomanladies]

I am an Iranian history student and specialize in Safavid history. I came across a subject in my studies. In October 1606, Safiye Sultan, Ahmad's grandmother, wrote a letter to Zeinab Begum, Shah Abbas's aunt, asking her to stop the Safavids from advancing on Ottoman soil. Safiye also introduces herself as Ahmad's advisor in this letter. This letter was written after the death of Handan Sultan. Could Safiye have helped Ahmed in the field of political diplomacy after Handan's death? A detailed description of this letter is given in the travelogue of Antonio de Gouvea

Hi, we're colleagues then!

It took me quite a while to find it but I finally did it LOL. Unfortunately, I don't speak Portuguese or Spanish or whatever that language is (there's some Latin in it too), so I had to ask for help. From what I was able to understand, though, the Soltanù that sends the letter identifies herself as the mother of the Sultan. De Gouvea says:

... Soltanù mãy do Turco, que hoje governa...

which means the Sultana the mother of the Turk, who rules nowadays. It can't be a typo because it is reiterated throughout the chapter that the Ottoman sultan is the sender's son.

Also, I'm not sure I would date the letter as having been written in October 1606. From what de Gouvea says, it seems to be a year earlier, when Handan was still alive.

I couldn't find anything more about the identity of the sender or her name in de Gouvea's work.

I've never heard of this actual event, though, so you may know something more.

[ottomanladies]

Was Şehzade Mahmud the son of Bulbul Hatun? She was the mother of Şehzade Ahmed. Did Bayezid II break the tradition of a wife and a son?

In my posts about Bayezid II’s family, I said that Bülbül was the mother of Ahmed and Hundi Sultan (or more daughters). 

As far as I know, we don’t know the identity of Şehzade Mahmud’s mother and I’m also pretty sure that he didn’t break the one mother - one son rule. If there are multiple sons ascribed to the same concubine, it may be that one of them died in infancy (or that it’s a mistake)

[ottomanladies]

thanks for the reply

Why did Fatma, Ahmed's daughter, get married later than her sisters? The year of Fatma's birth is 1606 and her first marriage took place in 1626, but the Hanzade, who was born in 1608, got married in 1623. Why did Fatma not marry in 1612 like her sisters Gevherhan and Ayse? I feel like she was kosem youngest daughter, even younger than the Hanzade

It's actually disputed that she first got married in 1626.

According to Uluçay and Sakaoğlu — but I imagine that they're each other's sources — she married her first husband, Admiral Çatalcalı Haşan Paşa, in 1624.

According to Öztuna, on the other hand, her first husband was Kara Mustafa Paşa, and they got married in 1626, but he admits that another theory is that Çatalcalı Haşan Paşa was her first husband and Kara Mustafa her second.

But it's not over: according to Peirce, Fatma's marriage to Çatalcalı Haşan Paşa was dissolved in 1628

In 1628 the sultan moved to sever the damad tie that linked Kösem to the admiral Çatalca Hasan Pasha. husband of her daughter Fatma. Angered by his mother's excessive patronage of Hasan Pasha, Murad had the marriage dissolved. Hasan Pasha had enjoyed the protection of the powerful chief black eunuch as well as that of the valide sultan. — Peirce. The Imperial Harem: Women and Sovereignty in the Ottoman Empire

The problem with this claim is that both Uluçay and Sakaoğlu maintain that Fatma's second marriage was celebrated in 1626 (to Kara Mustafa Paşa)... and that seems about right because he was executed by Murad IV in 1628.

Maybe Peirce's 1628 is just a typo 🤷🏻‍♀️

So, actually, if she got married in 1624, it actually makes sense as Murad IV succeeded Mustafa I in September 1623. Bayram Paşa, the Chief of the Janissaries, was awarded Hanzade's hand for the role he had had in his accession, and the two got married in 1623. Fatma got married in 1624 and Ayşe in 1625/6.

As for why Fatma did not get married during her father's reign. It seems to me that Ahmed I was trying to keep things balanced? One damad for Kösem (Ayşe's husband Nasuh Paşa and — after his execution — Şehid Karakaş Mehmed Paşa) and another for Osman II (Gevherhan's husband Kara Öküz Mehmed Paşa). If you notice, Ayşe is the only princess who re-marries during her father's reign: that's because her first husband had been executed— the factions had to be re-balanced out.

Obviously all of this works only if Gevherhan was truly Osman's full sister.

Also, as for her date of birth... basically everyone agrees that she was born in 1606, it's Ayşe's and Gevherhan's that are debatable. For example, Börekçi says that Gevherhan was Ahmed I's eldest daughter; other historians claim that Ayşe was born in 1608 instead.

[ottomanladies]

Didn't Suleiman want to have more girls? Did he use his nieces for political marriages? Explain a little about Osman Shah pasha.

LMAO I don't know if Süleyman I wanted to have more daughters.

I have already talked about his nieces and nephews.