#ask: ottoman history

[ottomanladies]

I believe that Suleiman did not have a daughter named Raziye. But why?

During my trip to Istanbul, I visited Sultan Selim Mosque.

There were five tombs in the mausoleum of the p

Șehzadeler, where Suleiman's young children are buried.

In addition to the tombs of Mahmud Murad and Abdullah, there were the tombs of two other children.

We know that Suleiman's two sons, Mahmud and Murad, died in 1521. The following year, Suleiman's eldest daughter died.

In 1522, Yahya Effendi was still very young. It is not clear whether he was even then a priest or not.

On the other hand, at this time, Yahya had not built a tomb for himself to bury the Sultan's daughter in. More strangely, all three young sons of the Sultan were buried in the royal tomb.

Why should the Sultan bury his young daughter in the tomb of a cleric? A tomb that had not yet been built.

I think the young girl is buried next to her brothers in Sultan Selim Khan Mosque.

On the other hand, there are five graves instead of three in the mausoleum of the princes. I don't know who the fifth tomb belongs to, maybe it is one of Suleiman's children, but surely one of those tombs belongs to the Sultan's little daughter.

But as for Raziye Sultan, I think she was the daughter of Şehzade Mustafa.

Husamodin Husayn, the 19th century historian, mentions in the history of Amasya that Şehzade Mustafa had four children: Suleiman, Mehmed, Fatma and Raziye. In his book, he mentions that the girl who married Ahmad Pasha was Fatma Sultan. If I am not mistaken, his source for this statement is the writing of one of the Venetian ambassadors.

On the other hand, we know that Yahya Effendi supported Mustafa's family after his execution. It is not strange that one of his daughters is buried in this man's grave.

From time to time this topic comes up, Polybius would say that’s because history is cyclical lol.

I know the tombs do not correspond to Süleyman I’s known children but that Raziye was the sultan’s daughter was proved by Şehsuvaroğlu, who found that the sarcophagus in Yahya Efendi’s mausoleum had an inscription that said: “Kanuni Süleyman’s daughter and Yahya Efendi’s spiritual daughter the carefree Raziye Sultan”

Yahya Efendi is mentioned as her spiritual father because he and the sultan were milk brothers.

I think Raziye may have been re-buried there, though we don’t know why. It’s not even certain that Süleyman himself re-buried her, maybe something had happened to where she was buried and therefore her sarcophagus was moved.

[ottomanladies]

No problem, it’s actually more comfortable to talk like this :)

What you say seems to make sense because Giustinian talks about Mustafa in past tense:

“Per ultimi sedevan nel Divano doi altri cognati del re, l’uno Chinan, l’altro Mustaffà. […] Mustaffà, fatto in Asia le medesime et peggiori estorsioni, ma convertite per la maggior parte in sé medesimo, provò con la perdita della testa il sdegno di Sua Maestà.”

He says that Mustafa was in the Divan but was sent to Anatolia, where he apparently extorted money from other people, kept it for himself, and “experienced His Majesty’s disdain with the loss of his head”.

This seems to confirm that he was a Damad until he was recently executed. Oztuna says he was executed in December 1628 but if von Hammer says there’s a dispatch dated December 1627, then… Also, Sicill-i Osmani (which is not a contemporary source, we must remember, but still…) says that Fatma married Kara Mustafa Pasha in 1625/26 and he was executed in 1626/27

I think Peirce mistook Kara Mustafa Pasha with Çanbuladzâde Mustafa Pasha, who was Fatma’s husband after Çatalcalı Hasan Pasha. Unfortunately, they were both called Mustafa lol.

About Çatalcalı Hasan Pasha, Sicill-i Osmani confirms the story that he was a servant of Haci Mustafa Ağa and that from 1615 to 1621 was kapıcıbaşı, that is the chief of palace gatekeepers. I guess that in this capacity he was able to find out that Osman II wanted to execute Mehmed.

About Kenan Pasha. Giustinian says he was sent to Greece (recently, I imagine) so maybe only the betrothal was formalised at the time (or some sort of proxy wedding)? I got the inspiration from Uluçay, who says that Ayşe binti Ahmed I was betrothed to Murtaza Pasha a month after Hafiz Ahmed Pasha’s death but he went to Istanbul for the wedding only three years later.

I think you’re right when you said Beyhan and Gevherhan were the only ones alive in 1672 because Fatma was most probably dead by then.

About Babadag, I would like to add (though it’s off-topic lol) that a daughter was born there to Mehmed IV and Gülbeyaz. Querini calls her Hatice and I called her Ayşe because I think he switched the princesses (Kuloğlu Musahip Mustafa Pasha married Hatice Sultan in 1675 and Kara Mustafa Pasha never became a Damad). I said, years ago, that Ayşe was Emetullah Rabia Gülnüş’ daughter but she clearly wasn’t because Querini clearly states that her mother is “Tulbeias” which, I realised only when I wrote my dissertation, was Gülbeyaz. So it’s true that Gülbeyaz was the mother of a princess, like Alderson said.

Unfortunately Turkish/Ottoman sources never mention an Ayşe Sultan binti Mehmed IV but Ragusian diplomats kept calling her “the Musahip’s wife” which is… strange… because (Kuloğlu) Musahip Mustafa Pasha was Hatice’s husband. Moreover, they never mention a Hatice Sultan, not even once. Did she have more names? What do you think? Is it just a simple mistake by foreigners who didn’t quite catch the difference between Ayşe and Hatice (keeping in mind a little Ayşe indeed existed and most probably died in childhood)? I would like to hear your opinion :D

Hi! Previously in Ottomanladies you answered an ask about marriages of Burnaz Atike, Gevherhan and little Atike. So, some historians confused Burnaz Atike with one of Ibrahim's daughters when they claim she married Musahib Cafer Pasha (d.1647) in 1630, as according to Giorgio Giustinian in 1627, Koca Kenan (d. 1652) was already married to Murad IV's sister (Pedani, p.596). And some historians say Gevherhan was the one who married Cafer in November 1646, like Sakaoglu.

And according to Joseph von Hammer, the youngest daughter of Ibrahim betrothed to Cafer was married to the other Kenan, Sari Kenan (d. 1659). But some historians separate the wives of these pashas as Gevherhan marrying Cafer and her sister Atike marrying Sari Kenan, with Atike going on to marry Ismail Pasha.

However, in "Dubrovacka akta i povelje", a report of 1650s refers to "Ghiusciahato sultana moglie di Chieman passa", so it seems to me she married Sari Kenan after Cafer died. And the "Mémoires du Sieur de la Croix" in 1670s, pages 368, 369, 370 and 371 says: "Les soeurs du Grand Seigneur (...) la premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & eftoit à dix avec fon second mary Affaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur dAlep, il fuit étranglé fous pretexte de fauffe monnoye, & elle fe maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, dAlep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire la épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée auffi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause dun défaut de nature (...) Je ne fcay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme eftoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l ayant choifi pour und es Lieutenans generaux de l armée dHongrie (...) Le cinquiéme sappelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession"

The quote says Mehmed IV had 2 sisters in 1670s. The 1st married Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed Pasha, then Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha and then a Canpulatoglu (son of Kosems Fatma?). The other, younger than the first, was married to "Sinan" who was Kaptaniderya, so it should be Sari Kenan. After him she married Ismail Pasha and then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and also had 2 husbands before the first.

(All in all, I believe the first sister who married Haseki Cavuszade could be Beyhan instead, as in 1653, according to "Dubrovacka akta i povelje" she is called "Behar sultana, moglie di passa di Cairo", and in 1563 this was Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed; but interestingly historians believe he was Gevherhans second husband instead...)

In "Per favore della Soltana", several lists give us marriages of Gevherhan. In 1648, she is called widow of Cafer, in 1662 she is wife of Ismail Pasha, and in 1670 she is called wife of Casciu Pascia who is probably Cerrah Kasim Pasha. And in 1676 and 1680, she is called wife of a Canpolatoglu and not another Sultana as Croix claimed.

Paul Rycaut in "The Present State of the Ottoman Empire" also says Gevherhan married Ismail Pasha (and then remarried to Gurcu Mehmed Pasha): "At this tenderness of age, Sultan Ibrahim, father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his daughters, one of which was called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five husbands, and yet as is reported by the world, remains a virgin; the last husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Guirgi Mehemet Pasha of Buda".

So it seems to me that Gevherhan married the following: Musahib Cafer in 1646, Sari Kenan in 1647, Ismail Pasha after him, then Gurcu Mehmed, then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and then maybe a Canpulatoglu (unless that was the other sister like Croix claimed, maybe Beyhan?), before finally marrying Palabiyik Yusuf later in life.

But after all this, I want to ask whether its possible that this sister of Mehmed IV called Atike existed at all? Because it seems quite certain that Gevherhan married Kenan Pasha and Ismail Pasha, not one named Atike, and historians did make a confusion with Burnaz Atikes marriages. And if little Atike didnt exist, was Gevherhan the full-sister of Mehmed IV instead? I know Gevherhan is believed to be born in 1642, and with Mehmed and Fatma it gets too much for Turhan, but Hammer describes her as the youngest daughter in 1647, and if the sister who married Haseki Mehmed was Beyhan, and she was reportedly married for the first time to another at the age of 3 as Croix claims, and the sister who married Sari Kenan and the others was younger than her, then Beyhan could still be born in 1645 as she married Hezarpare in 1648, and Gevherhan was born after her...

Hi! Please be patient with me because these asks take time to unwrap and I’m only doing this in my free time.

I think you’re talking about this ask. About the confusion, it’s something that Uluçay too believes:

Alderson confused the daughters of Ahmed I, Murad IV and Sultan Ibrahim, so he made mistakes.

Alderson confused the daughters of Ibrahim with the daughters of Ahmed I and Mehmed IV, and therefore made some mistakes.

and he’s right because the rapid successions plus the practice of marrying princesses as children created so much confusion.

(it’s so funny that he says that twice lmao)

Okay, so your theory is that Atike Sultan binti Ibrahim doesn’t exist and that some historians seem to have mistaken Burnaz Atike with a daughter of Ibrahim? I hope I understood well.

Everything under the read more (it's very... heavy, sorry lol)

I read Giustiniani’s relazione and the math is not really mathing because he says Murad IV put his four brothers-in-law at the highest posts of government but then mentions five brothers-in-law:

Çatalcalı Haşan Pasha: he’s Fatma’s husband

Hafiz Ahmed Pasha: he’s Ayşe’s husband

Bayram Pasha: he’s Hanzade’s husband

(Recep Pasha: he’s Gevherhan’s husband) > Giustiniani only mentions her as Osman II's elder sister

“Chinan” who, you believe, was Koca Sofu Kenan Pasha

“Mustaffà” ?? who is he??

Sicill-i Osmani says that Kenan Pasha married Burnaz Atike in 1633-34, but Giustinian’s last dispatch from Istanbul was dated 4 July 1627 so… did he foresee the future? Were there more Kenan Pashas?

(Also, who is that Mustafa??)

Now, onto Ibrahim's daughters.

So, I made this table to semplify things because I was going insane with all the information.

I think there is some confusion between Haseki Mehmed Pasha, who was strangled in Aleppo in June 1661 (like de la Croix says), and Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed Paşa, who lived until 1681. Sicill-i Osmani doesn’t call the latter “Haseki” but he’s identified as Gevherhan Sultan’s husband. Now, the princess who married Haseki Mehmed Pasha could have remarried after 1661, but the one who married Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed had to wait until 1681.

Beyhan is admittedly a mistery because she was married for less then a year to Hezâr-pâre Ahmed Pasha when she was little but afterwards didn’t have a husband for 11 years? It seems strange. If the Ragusian diplomats called her “wife of the pasha of Cairo” and if Haseki Mehmed Pasha was beylerbey of Egypt in 1653 (as Oztuna confirms in Devletler ve Hanedanlar), then Haseki Mehmed Pasha was married to Beyhan binti Ibrahim. Unfortunately my only Ragusian sources come from the essay Per Favore Della Soltana, and in it there’s a gap between a letter dated 1648 and one dated 1662.

About the Canpulatoğlu Pasha, I would like to add that Canbulad-zâde Mustafa Paşa had two sons with Fatma: Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa, who was governor of Budin and of Egypt, and Sultânzâde Süleymân Bey. Both lived to adulthood. Moreover, he had a daughter from his previous marriage: Ayşe Hâtûn. Maybe he had other sons too. It is interesting, though, that de la Croix says Canpulatoğlu is Governor of Egypt, because Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa was indeed governor of Egypt at some point.

About Atike binti Ibrahim:

(Uluçay doesn't believe she existed)

As we can see, Oztuna and Sakaoğlu use the same source. Oztuna, though, says that Atike binti Ibrahim was buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum, while Sakaoğlu says that her burial place is unknown. Curiously, Atike binti Ahmed I is buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum too.

Since Alderson gave his sources, I went to check. This is a passage from Histoire de l’Empire Ottoman, volume 12, pp. 49-50:

L'ainée, Aïsché, fiancée dès l'age de trois ans à Ipschir-Pascha, épousa à dix Mohammed-Pascha, gouverneur de Haleb; ce dernier ayant été décapité comme faux monnoyeur, elle devint la femme du defterdar Ibrahim, gouverneur du Kaire, puis de Haleb, et alors kapitan-pascha; à sa mort, elle fut mariée à Djanbouladzadé, ancien gouverneur d’Ofen, qui depuis remplit les mêmes fonctions au Kaire. La seconde, nommée Aatika, épousa d'abord le vizir Kenaan-Pascha, puis le vizir Yousouf-Pascha, et en troisième lieu le kapitan Sinan-Pascha, qui avait perdu la bataille des Dardanelles contre les Vénitiens; elle eut pour quatrième époux Ismail-Pascha, grand-inquisiteur en Asie, qui fut tué à la bataille de Saint-Gotthardt; enfin elle contracta une cinquième union avec KasimPascha, l'un des pages de la chambre intérieure, et chirurgien de profession, qui, lors de la circoncision du sultan Mohammed , sut arrêter, au moyen d'une poudre astringente, une hémorrhagie qui avait fait tomber le prince-en défaillance, service que ce dernier récompensa plus tard en donnant à Kasim le gouvernement de Temeswar. […] le Sultan, en reconnaissance du sang qu'il lui avait conservé, refusa de répandre le sien, et, pour le sauver, lui donna la main de sa sœur, qu’un vice de conformation avait empêchée d'appartenir à ses premiers maris, et qui, après dix-neuf ans de mariage, entra vierge dans le harem de Kasim. Celui-ci la délivra de son infirmité au moyen d'ine opération qu’il pratiqua pendant le sommeil d'Aatika, assoupie par un narcotique. Ce fut ainsi qu'il acquit des titres puissans aux bonnes grâces de la princesse, comme précédemment il avait mérité la faveur particulière de Mohammed IV.

Doesn’t it kind of sound like de la Croix (below)? I think Hammer’s source is him.

"La premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & estoit à dix avec son second mary Assaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur d’Alep, il fut étranglé sous pretexte de fausse monnoye, & elle se maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, d’Alep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire l’a épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée aussi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause d’un défaut de nature (...) Je ne sçay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme estoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l’ayant choisi pour un des Lieutenans generaux de l’armée d’Hongrie (...) Le cinquiéme s’appelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession”

Now, I think Hammer starts with a mistake because Ibsir Mustafa Pasha was one of Ayşe binti Ahmed I’s husbands. Also, it’s impossible to say where he found that Mehmed IV’s eldest sister was named Ayşe. After these mistakes, though, he repeats what de la Croix said: Haseki Mehmed Pasha, Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha, Canbuladzâde Pasha. The second sister is named Atike (so he says) and stayed a virgin until her last husband, Cerrah Kasim Pasha, operated on her to solve some kind of physical problem she had. This story is similar to the one reported by Rycaut, but he named her Gevherhan instead:

At this tenderness of Age, Sultan Ibrahim, Father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his Daughters; one of which called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five Husbands, and yet, as is reported by the World, remains a Virgin; the last Husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Gurgi Mahomet Pasha of Buda, a Man of 90 Years of Age, but rich and able to maintain the greatness of her Court, though not to comply with the youthfulness of her Bed, to which he is a stranger like the rest of her preceding Husbands. — p. 40.

It’s possible that Rycaut had already left the Ottoman Empire when this princess married Cerrah Kasim Pasha. He’s the only one talking about Gurci Mehmed Pasha, though… Interestingly, Sakaoğlu corrects Rycaut’s Gürcü into “(Çavuşzade, Haseki)” but, admittedly, his quote is quite different from Rycaut’s original. In Sakaoğlu’s it is said that the pasha is 30, while Rycaut says he’s 90. Moreover, as far as I know, Çavuşzade Mehmed Pasha was never governor of Buda.

In conclusion, I’m more confused than before lol

As for Mehmed IV’s full sister, I really have no opinion on this. Usually, it’s Beyhan who is given as Turhan Hatice’s daughter but with no hard evidence.

You (and other people) can send me asks on ottomanladies now, I have re-opened my ask box. As I have already said, please be patient with me because I don't have much free time and these things need to be analyzed properly :D

[gemsofgreece]

Hey, question: what are your thoughts on baklava? Is it turkish or greek?

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of facts and the lack of them. The answer to this is normally an one-liner but I would like to give some context because there are foreign people out there who don't understand these feuds.

The one-liner is that the origins of the baklava are unknown.

Now the context: It is funny that what you will constantly hear is the "turkish vs greek" discourse when in actuality baklava is a traditional pastry in at least a dozen more countries in the Balkans, the Middle East and South Caucasus. The reason the discourse always zooms in in these two countries is because of their historically tense relations, which makes nationalists from these places channel their frustrations even in the pettiest of topics. Another reason is that this is a region which has nurtured numerous multi-ethnic empires but Turkey and Greece are the countries which are typically the most connected to these imperial pasts.

We do not know who the cook who came up with the baklava in the Ottoman empire was or to which of the various ethnic communities of the empire they belonged. We know for a fact that baklava's name is Turkish because this was the official language of the empire. Some turkish nationalists treat the turkish name as proof but this is not a good enough reasoning in an imperial context because everything is almost always popularised via the first language of an empire. With the same reasoning, we could say that since the basis of the baklava is the phyllo (filo) dough which is a Greek word, then baklava is a turkish sweet that is half-Greek because it has a Greek basis? These things are unserious.

We also do not know whether that first cook in the Ottoman Empire created the pastry out of thin air or was heavily inspired or was copying a pastry that was already a known delicacy in these regions before the establishment of the Ottoman Empire. Actually, we know that there was a suspiciously way too similar pastry in the Byzantine Empire, named "koptoplakýs¨, a Greek name corresponding to the official language of the Byzantine Empire. We still don´t know if koptoplakys was purely a Greek recipe or it was first made by one of the other Byzantine ethnic groups or it was also inspired by something else prior to it. Several speculations place the origins of baklava and that of koptoplakys to a variety of regions, such as Ancient Greece, Armenia, the Assyrian Empire and more.

The point is that since all these regions of the Balkans, Anatolia and the Middle East were parts of empires, various ethnicities cohabitating in the same place, in the same ecosystem with the same produce, even if this coexistence was not exactly dreamy, it is natural that all these people pretty much ate similar or the same foods and such foods with "controversial" origins are genuinely part of their culinary heritage. There's no "stealing" when it comes to regular everyday things massively consumed by people living together. It's a pastry. It's not some sacred, religious or national symbol. It's a pastry, traditional and with historical presence throughout most of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Like Farya Faraji correctly says, if anything, the differences were regional and not national, since nation states are a very recent development in world history. Meaning, all these countries make the baklava but you may notice slight differentiations in each country / region's version. The standard Turkish baklava is made with pistachios. The standard Greek baklava is made with walnuts. A baklava I had in Montenegro had a lot of lemon zest in it, which definitely is not a thing in Greece. Spices can vary too.

Also, sometimes there is so much discourse about dishes with the same name when in fact the dishes are not even the same. For example, turkish and greek moussakas, another huge discourse, are literally two different dishes!

Turkish mussaka:

Greek mussaka:

(Needless to say various types of mussakas are present throughout the aforementioned regions as well, again.)

"Yes but the similarities" the similarities can be found in literally all neighbouring regions in the world, let alone in places where different ethnicities have been crammed upon each other in empires for centuries. It's inescapable and you sometimes merge so much you cannot tell who started what. (Unless in cases when we DO know thanks to documented history. Then it's a HUGE no-no to confuse or conflate different neighbouring cultures. This is often very important when it comes to actually serious things like languages, religions, historical incidents instead of... nuts and doughs.)

If you are concerned what you should define it as, simply say "I'm having an x style baklava", x being whichever nation you're getting the pastry or the recipe from. Hope that helped.

[ogniemimieczem]

The comments are everything you’d hope:

(Referencing this banger, of course)

[mayor-david-prentiss]

wow a sigistvan fic exists on ao3...

[margaretkart]

Which big events/ battles from ancient Greece (or Byzantine) would you like to get a movie adaptation?

If i say all then Greece would go more bankrupt so let's suggest a few i believe are underrated:

About Ancient Greece

The Peloponnese war the epic long war between Athenians and Spartans

The thirty tyrants after the defeat of the Athenians after the Peloponnese war

The golden age of Athens with Pericles, in general showing the life in ancient Athens and the political drama of that time but also what shaped the democracy.

Now about Byzantine i would love a movie about the Justinian dynasty and empress Theodora, showing in general the political schemes and decisions back then, and in a series level Game of thrones would be epic.

[jezzzebel]

Hey *hand on shoulder* you know that Greece, along with most of the balkan countries, has been under ottoman turkish rule for more than 400 years? You know that Greece today has many economic problems today, despite it's history being rich?

You know that Greece is very prone to forest fires and natural disasters?

Also, do you know that Greece, along with Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as Montenegro... They are all protesting against corruption, and no one talked about it.

You talk about wanting to have temples to worship in modern day, but you don't care about the land that those temples would be built on?

Greece may be an Orthodox Christian country. But trust me, the gods are still very much living there. Their spirit is still there. Poseidon is still ruling the waves, Zeus is still watching over in the sky, Demeter is taking care of the crops.

All i am asking is... Spread awareness. I am saying this on behalf of my greek friend, firstly, who has complained to me about their issues not being heard. LEARN HISTORY. STUDY CURRENT WORLD EVENTS. SEND LOVE TO THE LAND OF GREECE, WHO HAS ENDURED GREAT HARDSHIPS.

[a-very-tired-jew]

I do love seeing all the antisemites scream about pine trees in Israel whenever there's some sort of ecological issue or disaster going on or they want to use them as "proof" that Israel is a white European colonial project. Why? Because I've never seen them say what pine trees are the culprit. It's always some allusion to pine trees being non-native to the region and that they were planted to make the country "more European" or something like that. The articles are written in English for a Western audience that has pines in their backyard and are likely associated with the winter months in their culture. The implication here is "how could your Winter Xmas Pine Tree survive in the desert?!" which leads to the colonial assumptions and so on and so forth.

This entire schtick plays upon the general populace not understanding anything about ecology, range distributions, species, and other biological concepts. Most people see the term "pine tree" and assume it's the same pine trees they've seen their entire lives. The concept of different species all being colloquially referred to as "pine tree" is not a common conception.

So if you're reading any of those articles or posts that scream about colonialization because of "pine trees" then you need to stop and ask "what species?" Because the JNF has planted 3 particular pines - The Aleppo pine (Pinus halepensis), the Turkish Pine (Pinus brutia), and the Canary Pine (Pinus canariensis).

All three species are endemic to the Mediterranean region and are subtropical species. Meaning, all three have distributions that include Israel in their native range and have a biological history of being there. At one point or another many of them were cut down for some use (from what I understand, primarily for ship construction during the Ottoman Empire). In fact, the Aleppo was almost wiped out from its Middle Eastern distribution until it was brought back (and the three species are all closely related and adapted for the climate in the region).

Now, I've seen variations of the land shouldn't have been greened, they cut down native forests, they drained swamps, etc, etc... as criticisms. I even had the "they shouldn't have drained and greened the swamps" as an argument, barring the fact that the swamps only existed because the native forest was cut down for use by the Ottoman's and as such caused environmental degradation and change.

And the thing is, there's valid criticism for planting so much pine. It's a very dry tree species that catches fire easily. Especially when it becomes sick and/or damaged. There's also concern that it's planted in parts of Israel that are not suitable for said tree species. But at no point are they a foreign invasive species. They are native to the region.

However, what stands out the most to me is that never do one of these articles, blog posts, rants, or antisemitic screeds mention Eucalyptus.

That's right.

Eucalyptus, a genus (or Tribe) primarily endemic to Australia, was brought in to drain swamp, wetlands, and marshlands and make them habitable. And not just one! But multiple species were introduced for this purpose (Eucalyptus camaldulensis, Eucalyptus gomphocephala, and Eucalyptus torelliana).

Not a single writing has ever mentioned these trees, and that should be a big warning flag that what you're about to read is mired in half truths, falsities, and lies of omission besides outright ignorance. Solely focusing on pine trees is to elicit the response I mentioned above in Western audiences who only associate "pine tree" with their winter time and climate. It's a malicious technique to manipulate the reader and come to a false conclusion and assumption that will stoke their outrage at the "colonial" behavior of planting "colonial non-native" trees.

[unsolicited-opinions]

The Israel thing confuses the shit out of me, I've gotta say.

I consider myself left wing politically. Pretty darn left. (Or what I thought "left" meant.) I have voted for progressive parties/candidates in every election (local, national, EU-wide) since I was legally able to do so. I am a Pride-flag-waving lesbian, a feminist (I legally changed my surname to my mothers last name in solidarity when I was still a teenager!), a vegan, an environmentalist (I don't drive a car, I don't fly, my home is fossil fuel free, powered entirely by wind and solar generated electricity) and a union member. I'm very careful about everything I buy, always looking for the most ethical option. No "fast fashion". No Twitter since Musk took over. No Amazon Prime.

I try pretty hard, every day, to walk the walk, y'know? Not just talk the talk. I try to live my beliefs. Not just perform them. Even though it is often inconvenient. (Having to constantly look stuff up. See where my money would be going. Check for bad business practices. Who owns what. Who do they vote for. Who do they donate to. How and where is it made. Who made it. How are they treated. What's the carbon footprint. What's the energy efficiency rating. Etc, etc, etc.)

When the October 7th attacks on Israel happened, I immediately realised 'I don't know enough about this' and so started reading about the history (and present) of Israel and Palestine. There were things I felt I needed to know and understand before I threw my lot in with anyone.

One of the earliest things I learned was that Israel existed before Palestine (fact one. And it seemed important.) and Jewish people existed thousands of years before there were Muslims. I learned (fairly quickly and not in great depth) about the Hebrew Bible, the Bar Kokba revolt, the origins of Islam, the Arab conquest of the Levant, the Edict of Expulsion, the Alhambra decree, the 19th century pogroms and the Pale of Settlement, Theodor Herzl and the origins of Zionism, WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Holocaust, the first Arab/Israeli war, Black September, the Munich Olympics, the first and second intifada, Hamas and Fatah, culture and laws in modern Israel...

I feel like I did my homework. And I concluded, given what I had read, that I was quite broadly on Israel's side. It seemed to me that the Jewish people have every right to be there. Israel has every right to exist. It's where the Jewish people originated. They purchased land there legally. They achieved polity and declared independence. They have fought and won wars over it. What more could anyone ask for? They're indigenous to the land, they have always been there (to a greater or lesser degree), the ones who left paid for the land when they returned, they fought wars for the land and won. What other ways can they prove or earn their right to be there? They have done more to "earn" their existence on that land than any other people on Earth.

I do not understand the "left"'s antipathy toward Israel, Israelis or Zionism. It makes no sense to me.

Yes, war is awful. Of course. Innocent people dying is awful. Of course. But that does not seem to be what is being protested. It is Israel's very existence that they object to. And I do NOT understand that. I have tried. I have read what I believe to be a fairly thorough account of the history of the land and its people. And I simply cannot get onboard with what my comrades (...) on the left are saying and doing. It just does not make sense to me. It doesn't fit.

And at the moment (since October 2023) it is in all left wing spaces. Feminist bookshops I once frequented. Environmental organizations I was once a member of. Pride parades I once marched in. All are now obsessed with the BDS movement and bashing Israel and Zionists. And it's not even a question. It's just a given. If you are a feminist or queer or an environmentalist you must also (obviously!) hate Israel. And I just cannot logically understand WHY.

Jews don't often encounter non-Jewish progressives these days who can be normal about Jews, rational about Israel, and see what we see...so I can't tell you how much I appreciate this and you, Anon.

Thank you for sharing these thoughts.

I have so much respect for the integrity required to tell oneself "I don't know enough to have an opinion, so I'm going to make an effort to learn more."

I can count the non-Jews I know who have done that on one hand.

The LGBTQ+ Jews I know (including family) all tell me that while they feel secure, safe, and included as LGBTQ+ persons in Jewish spaces, they don't feel at all safe as Jews in LGBTQ+ spaces, and that breaks my heart because I know how important that sense of community is to my LGBTQ+ family and friends and I understand how much that loss must hurt.

Like most of us, LGBTQ+ Jews are liberals who thought they shared values with other progressives until October 7th taught us that while we might have felt solidarity with them, they didn't feel solidarity with us...and jumped at the opportunity to feel righteous about being hateful.

Many (perhaps most) of us similarly lost communities because you're right that all the progressive spaces aren't just unthinkingly hostile and willfully ignorant, but actively hateful and parroting Jew-hatred tropes from the middle ages, the Czars, the Soviets, and a Fuhrer. In liberal spaces. While claiming to be progressives. While claiming to be AntiFa. While claiming to despise Nazis and bigotry. While allying themselves with Islamist movements which favor genital mutilation, child brides, and honor killings.

If you'd like to get in touch without the anonymity, I'd welcome that - because I'd like to see more of your writing.

Again, thank you. This made my day.

[ottomanladies]

I wish to give an opinion of daughters of Ibrahim. There is a great abyys in lack of prooves to demarcate daughters of Ibrahim, Atike and Gevherhan. At times, I have an opinion that Atike existed, and at another times that she didn’t exist. For now, I favour the other theory, but i will talk one day about that topic more detailed.

Archiv für Kulturgeschichte Band 77 on page 65, that at the very end of reign of Sultan Ibrahim, Valide Sultan received 125 okka per month, daughters of Murad III named Hümaşah and Hatice received 7 okka per month, daughter of Murad III Fahri(han) received 10 okka per month, Kaya Sultan 16 okka per month, daughters of Ibrahim Gevherhan and Beyhan 30 okka per month and daughter of Ibrahim Fatma 50 okka per month.

Why would Gevherhan and Beyhan receive less stipend than Fatma, as Fatma was adopted and raised by Turhan? Btw, Fatma survived her husband, read Sakaoglu (actually, Ulucay proved it first). Also, in Acta et Diplomata Ragusina, Fatma is mentioned in 1658 document as widow of Fazli Pasha, nothing else is said unfortunately…

Anyway, I would claim that Ayşe Sultan binti Ibrahim really existed. See this quote from work The rise of the Köprülü family (p. 129):

For instance, when Prince Mustafa, the first son of Mehmed IV, was born in Edirne Palace in 1664, Ayşe Sultan, Gevherhan Sultan and Beyhan Sultan, sisters of Mehmed IV, were called to Edirne Palace from Topkapı to join in the celebration for the new prince. This summons shows that some members of the sultan’s family still resided in Topkapı Palace after 1663.

I consider her being the own sister of Mehmed IV. Kütükoğlu was only one right, he was married to Ibrahim’s Ayşe. Ahmed’s Ayşe really died in 1656, in document Vakfiler su defteri there is one document mentioning Ayşe Sultan died before 1660 (if I recall). Her last husband was Ibsir Mustafa Pasha. Sadly, Ibrahim’s Ayşe was wrongly confused also as Ibsir’s wife. Her one and only marriage was with Suleiman Pasha Malatuk (Ermeni). Alderson confused her with Murad IV’s daughter.

In work Atik şikâyet defteri (7 numaralı H.1081-1083/ M.1671-1672) transkripsiyon, Mehmed IV wrote several letters in 1671/72 to his sisters Ayşe and Gevherhan, and their husbands. He doesn’t refer them as hemşirem, but it’s them.

Anyway, in work OSMANLI DEVLETİ’NİN 1660-1661 (HİCRİ 1070-1071) TARİHLİ SEFER BÜTÇESİ  (pp. 23-24), there were provided annual payments of some Ottoman princesses in 1661. This payment list does not refer to all of the Sultanas who were knowly alive in 1661, as Ahmed’s daughter Fatma Sultan for example. Only some of them.:

Hâshâ-i hazret-i Valide Sultan 12.000.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Ayşe Sultan 2.595.333

 Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Fatıma Sultan 2.005.000

 Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Rukiyye Sultan 1.235.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Safiye Sultan 1.005.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Beyhan Sultan 1.560.000 24

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Gevherhan Sultan 1.520.000

Hâshâ-i Ayşe sultan haseki-i merhum Gazi Sultan Murad Han aleyhi’r-rahmeti ve’l-gufran 100.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Ümmi Sultan 295.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Sâime Sultan 285.000

Hâshâ-i temlik-i merhum Kaya Sultan 1.250.000

See how Mehmed’s cousins (Murad IV’s daughters) and sisters (especially) received high payments, in difference to his aunt Ümmi Sultan and his great-great-aunt Saime Sultan. But, you would notice his sisters Ayşe and Fatma received the highest salaries; Ayşe the very highest as own sister, Fatma little lesser as adopted sister.

Sorry for the long wait, I have been incredibly busy these past few months.

About Ayşe binti Ibrahim, I would refer to this post, in which @rhaenahanzades found that the one married to Ermeni/Malatyalı Süleyman Pasha was Ayşe binti Ahmed I. I’ll paste the citation again, here:

“Soliman passa, Visir della Porta. Ritrouai anche alla Corte per Visir della Porta il Sr Soliman passa, stato un tempo Visir Supremo, dal quale fui all'udienza e lo presentai secondo le comissioni, il quale nell'honorarmi e trattarmi bene non uolse mostrarsi meno cortese degl'altri, offerendosi con molta humanità per ogni occorenza de publici seruitii. Questo Sr è assai noto all'EE. VV. per rellationi di diuersi loro ambassadori, onde a me non occorre tediarle in detto proposito. Dirò solo questo, che non le uol male e che sia personaggio da potterle fauorire, essendo ben uoluto da S. Mtà, col quale è ancor congiunto col uincolo di parentella, mentre la sua zia Aisce sultana tiene per moglie.” (“Dubrovačka akta i povelje” vol. 3, pages 661 and 662)

I believe Ayşe binti Ibrahim died pretty young and therefore never entered the Ragusian ambassadors’ lists of gifts.

As for Fatma binti Ibrahim, I must have missed when it was decided that she had been adopted by Turhan because I have never heard of this.

About the list of payments you’ve found, I’m not sure those princesses are identified correctly:

I have identified them based on seniority and the amount of money, which seems to me to be what their lands yield. I don’t think these are stipends.

Anyway, if we put the princesses in order of amount of money, I think it’d be easier to understand who is who:

Ayşe and Fatma stand at the top of the hierarchy because a) they’re older and b) they must have amassed a great amount of land during their lives. After them we have the sisters of the reigning sultan (Mehmed IV), so Beyhan and Gevherhan (possibly in order of birth??); then we have Murad IV’s daughters (Kaya is mentioned as deceased because she was at the time), and lastly we have two minor princesses: Saime, a daughter of Murad III and a non-haseki concubine, and Ümmi, either a daughter of Ahmed I or of Murad III as well. I say this because I think their small amount of land means they were not daughters of Haseki Sultans: if Ümmi is Ayşe and Fatma’s sister that’s the only reason she would possess less land than them.

[haticesultanas]

I am really glad that you have answered my analysis of Ümmügülsüm Sultan as daughter of Ahmed I.

I have investigated Sultanas for 3 years for now and I want to share my findings about daughters of Bayezid II that are kinda new ones... I want to hear your comments.

------------------------------------

In work Şehzade Korkud (ca. 1468-1513) and the Articulation of Early 16th Century Ottoman Religious Identity on page 60 (note 43), it is said that İlaldı Sultan was said to be own sister of Selim I. Additionally, in work The marriage of Ibrahim Pasha on page 25, it is said that Ferhad Pasha and Ahmed Pasha were pashas from Selim’s household; one married his daughter and another his sister. Ahmed Pasha was on strong positions even through reign of Selim I, so... But, I think that he was not the first husband of İlaldı; as she was Selim’s sister, she must had been older than him and probably she got married when he was sent to province (1487) if not earlier.

There are multiple suggestions and claims of Sofu Fatma Sultan’s marriages. Öztuna claims that her first marriage was in 1482 to Mirza Mehmed Pasha (d. August 1517, who was remarried in 1513 to Şahnisa Sultan); Alderson in his tables claim that she was married in 1489 to son of Koca Davud Pasha, Mustafa Pasha (d. 1524), which J. Dumas also confirmed at the end of the 2013 book at page 477. She was married to Güzelce Hasan Bey at sometime, but in work Şehzade Korkud (ca. 1468-1513) and the Articulation of Early 16th Century Ottoman Religious Identity on page 55 (note 23) it is stongly claimed that in late 1504 she was still married to Hasan Bey, but in June she was reffered as former wife of Hasan Bey.  In Dumas’s 2013 book, somewhere I have found that she says that she remarried after Hasan Bey to certain Ahmed Pasha, but I couldn’t find it now. If all these four marriages happened, if you ask me, at least in two cases marriage ended with a divorce.

In work Wolf on the Border: Yahyapaşaoğlu Bali Bey (?-1527) by Fodor, it is strongly claimed that gift records show Yahya Pasha was married in 1501/02 to Aynışah Sultan, and that Bali Pasha was her stepson who married her daughter in 1508. I strongly consider suggestion of historians that Aynışah was Şirin Hatun’s daughter FALSE. They consider her being buried beside her grandmother and father, although it is Şirin Hatun’s granddaughter Aynışah Sultan (who was buried there when she died in 1540). Aynışah Sultan was married in 1489 to her first cousin Ahmed Bey, who was 13 years old at the time. I consider Aynışah to be similar in age of her husband (thus being born in 1475/76), because if she was Abdullah’s own sister, she was born before 1464, which would mean she was twice as old as her husband, which is unimaginable to me.

Serbian historian Gliša Elezović claimed that Bayezid II’s daughter Hümaşah Sultan was remarried after death of her husband Bali Pasha to governor of Skopje Mustafa Pasha. Later, one of the historians made work about Çoban Mustafa Pasha, who was governor of Skopje during reign of Bayezid II and claims that he was Hümaşah’s second husband, and that after her death he remarried Selim I’s daughter Hafsa Sultan in 1517. With Hümaşah Sultan he had four daughters, see on second page: https://acikerisim.fsm.edu.tr/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11352/1785/%C4%B0brahimgil.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Additionally, beside four daughters with Mustafa Pasha, Hümaşah Sultan had a son Hüseyinşah Bey, who died in 1566 and was from Karlizade family. Elezović also confirmed this, but also in work Journal of Turkish Studies 39 (2013), on page 248 this information is confirmed. But his father must have been from Karlizade family, and there was one of Bayezid II’s damads named Karlizade Mehmed Bey who was governor and still alive in 1511. In this document about provincial governors and damads of Bayezid II, he is reffered as II. Bayezid'in damatlarından Mehmed Bey bin Karlı'dır. Obviously, she divorced one of them…

In Fisher’s book The foreign relations of Turkey 1481-1512 we have two interesting informations; in 1481 there were recorded four sons-in-law of prince Bayezid (p. 17; note 33):

Hersekli Ahmed Pasha (Hundi Sultan lol); Sinan Pasha (Ayşe Sultan lol), Kasim aga-aga of the jannisaries and Rüstem pasha-janissary pasha. Are you able to find out what were names of wifes of other two pashas?

On page 93 of the same book:

It was not usual custom in Turkey to give daughters of the sultan to foreign princes, but Bayezid disregarded this usage and married two daughters outside the empire. One he had given to Amed Mirza of Persia, and now he cemented the friendship between Turkey and Egypt by sending a daughter to Cairo. This was in 1501, and the next year ambassadors were exchanged to discuss the affairs of Persia and the Syrian frontier.

In book Struggle for Domination in the Middle East by Shai Har-El (p. 215):

In 1501 Bayezid sent his daughter to marry the newly-enthroned Mamluk Sultan Kansu al-Gawri, thus confirming a peaceful relation between the two states. The following year, in the late 1502 Bayezid agreed to peace with Venice in order to free himself to deal with new problems emerging the East.

But, if you read Alderson’s tables (last note in tables of Bayezid II), he cites some source I couldn’t understand from Ulucay and says that this Sultana who married Kansuh was later accused of adultery. Nothing shocking to me as Kansuh al-Gawri was 60 years old at the time, and this Sultana was young. But I am dying to know what was her name. Could you be able to find out?

----------------------------------------------------------------

You’re welcome, it was a very interesting read :D

I have to tell you in advance that it’s been a long time since I studied anything different from the Sultanate of Women so I may make mistakes or I may not know well what we’re talking about. Please, bear with me.

It's going to be very long, I'm sorry

If you don’t mind, I’m going to summarise what you said:

According to Nabil Al-Tikriti in Şehzade Korkud (ca. 1468-1513) and the Articulation of Early 16th Century Ottoman Religious Identity (p. 60, n. 43), İlaldı Sultan was “said to have been Selim’s full sister”

She married Ahmed Ağa (> Hâin Ahmed Paşa), who came from Selim I’s household and was one of his favourites (According to Öztuna, he was executed in Cairo)

According to Uluçay she must have died around 1518 because she doesn’t figure among the princesses who received a stipend from Selim I on that date

Sofu Fatma Sultan: she married Güzelce Hasan Bey (m. before late february 1504-june or before june 1506) and had a daughter with him. She married Ahmed Bey bin Ali Bey bin Mesih Paşa (Uluçay, p. 49). Her son Mehmed Çelebi later married Ayse Sultan daughter of Şehzade Alemşah.

According to Uluçay (via Sakaoglu), it’s not true that she had married Mustafa Bey, son of Grand Vizier Davud PashaYou may be right that she had a previous husband before Güzelce Hasan Bey because according to Uluçay she only had a daughter with him. He didn’t know her son Mehmed Çelebi’s father but that seems to mean she had another husband. Still, according to Uluçay, Sofu Fatma Sultan was also the wife of Ahmed Bey bin Ali Bey bin Mesih Paşa but both Sakaoglu and Oztuna maintain that he was the husband of her daughter instead.

Yes, so, about Dumas’ dissertation… Her family trees were not made by her, she simply reported what Alderson or Uluçay said in their books, so they’re not exactly sources. It can be seen in the fact that she never attempts to identify the princesses she finds in harem registers. For example, in her dissertation she says that “Gevherhan” was a daughter of Murad III with a concubine of non-haseki status (in reality that Gevherhan is Gevherhan binti Selim II, who had a long life) but she didn’t put her in the family trees at the end.

Aynışah Sultan: she first married Akkoyunlu Damad Göde Ahmed Bey in 1490, the marriage lasted until 1497 (when Ahmed Bey was killed during an uprising in Azerbaijan, where he had gone earlier that year to reclaim the throne of his grandfather, Akkoyunlu ruler Uzun Hasan). With Ahmed Bey, Aynışah had two daughters, Hanzade and an unnamed daughter who married her cousin Şehzade Alaeddin, son of Şehzade Ahmed. According to Öztuna, she also had a son: Sultân-zâde Zeynel Mîrzâ Bey. She secondly married Malkoçoğlu Dâmâd Yahyâ Pasha at the turn of the century (or 1501/1502). At the time, Yahya Pasha already had seven sons: Bali, Mahmud, Mehmed, Sinan, Ahmed, İskender, and Mustafa, who were all adults when their father married into the imperial family. In 1508, Yahya Pasha’s eldest son Bali Bey married one of Aynışah’s daughters from her previous marriage. The marriage was unhappy because the princess had several affairs, and did not produce any legitimate issue.

Akkoyunlu Damad Göde Ahmed Bey was the son of Gevherhan Sultan binti Mehmed II and Dâmâd Uğurlu Mehmed Mirza/Pasha. He was born in 1476 and was therefore 14 yo when he married Aynışah.

Hüma/Hümaşah Sultan: she firstly married Dâmâd Antalyalı Balı Paşa around 1482. After his death in 1494, she married Çoban Mustafa Paşa with whom she had four daughters: Huma, Hani, Şahzeman, and Ümmi Hatun (according to Mehmet Z. İbrahimgil in Makedonya'da Gazi Mustafa Paşa'nın Vakıf Malları). After Hümaşah Sultan’s death (1504??), Çoban Mustafa Pasha married Selim I’s daughter Hafsa.

The marriages of Selim I’s daughters are a mess, to say the least, so I won’t get into it. Turan says “In 1517 Mustafa Pasha married the widow of Bostancıbaşı Iskender Pasha, whom Selim had executed in 1515”. Öztuna gives these husbands to Hafsa, though he didn’t identify the bostancıbaşı: “=1. Dâmâd Fülân Ağa, bostâncıbaşı, executed by Yavuz. =2. Dâmâd Gaazî Çoban Mustafa Paşa (executed 20.8.1523) b. İskender Paşa (ölm. 1506)” I could not find any of Elezović’s works so I don’t know which his sources were. Grygor Boykov in Karlizâde ‘Ali Bey: an Ottoman Dignitary’s Pious Endowment and the Emergence of the Town of Karlova in Central Bulgaria (which is the essay in the Journal of Turkish Studies you mentioned) gives this information:

Another relative, one Hüseyin Şah Bey, who is known to have been an offspring of the Ottoman princess Huma Şah Sultan and of a member of the Karlizâde family, built in 1553/1554 in the village of Saray (near Skopje) a mosque, medrese, and a bridge over the river Vardar. He was buried there in 1566/1567 in a highly monumental mausoleum that almost rivals in size the mosque.

without sources, unfortunately.

The essay you mentioned is İlhan Gök’s İnamat Defteri’ndeki Verilere Göre 16. Yüzyılın İlk Çeyreğinde Osmanlı Eyalet ve Sancak Yöneticileri, where he repeatedly says that Mehmed Bey bin Karlı was a damad of Bayezid II.

Do you think she married Mehmed Bey bin Karlı before Çoban Mustafa Pasha? This Mehmed Bey was governor of İlbasan from 23 July 1505 to 21 March 1507, governor of Alaiye from 9 March 1509 to 15 October 1509, and governor of Vulçıtrın from 6 July 1510 to 7 December 1511. If Hümaşah had only a son with him, Hüseyin Şah Bey, this marriage could have been a short one. On the other hand, the marriage with Çoban Mustafa Pasha must have been longer since they had 4 daughters.

About Fisher’s book:

Kasim, aga of the janissaries (DaLezze*,* p. 164*);* Rustem, janissary pasha (DaLezze, p. 179); Hersekoglu Ahmed, beylerbey of Rumelia (Spanduguino, p. 170; P. Giovio, "Informatione di Paulo Giovio vescovo di Nocera, a Carlo Quinto Imperatore Auguisto” in Dell’historia universale dell’origine et imperio de Turchi [Sansovino, ed], p. 218r); and Sinan, beylerbey of Anatolia (Hammer, III, 339) were all related to Bayezid by marriage.

“DaLezze” is the Historia Turchesca whose paternity is disputed, but Italian historians say it was not written by Donato Da Lezze. In any case, I don’t have it so I can’t read what he said about these men.

So, Mehmed II died in 1481, and this note refers to when Bayezid was trying to reach Istanbul before Cem so he could claim the throne for himself.

Oztuna, in Devletler ve Hanedanlar , lists the Janissaries commanders. Between 1451 and 1515 Mehmed II had abolished the commander of the Janissaries, leaving only the segbânbaşı, that is his deputy.

Hasan Ağa (1451-), 'Abdurrahmân Ağa, Balaban Ağa, Trabzonlu Mehmed Bey, Yâ'qûb Ağa (-1462), Ramazân Ağa, Karagöz Mehmed Ağa, Ibrâhîm Ağa (1485), a different Karagöz Ağa (1497), Yûnus Ağa (1502), Balyemez 'Osmân Ağa (-1515).

It’s Selim I (in 1515) who restored the commander of the Janissaries and gave him a seat in the Divan.

Anyway, if we believe Oztuna to be accurate, there are no Kasim or Rustem during these years. The first Rustem I encountered was “Güzelce Rüstem Ağa 1531-1533”, who was a damad according to Alderson (but his source is Fisher...).

I don’t know anything about a marriage between an Ottoman princess and Qansuh II al-Ghawri, but I’ve found that Cem’s daughter Gevhermelik married An-Nasir Muhammad ibn Qaitbay in 1495.

So, the sources Alderson mentions are articles Uluçay published in Yeni Tarih Dünyası, which is a magazine and not really a scientific journal but that’s how Ottoman history was first spread in the 1950s:

Popular history journals had been a part of a widespread genre in Turkey whose growing population of readers was committed to historical knowledge rooted in nationalist Kemalist ideology and it’s advancement of a particular version of historical discourse. Such journals were published from the beginning of the twentieth century both by political parties and private owners. However they began to proliferate in the 1950s, partly as a result of the relaxation of the political system that had an effect on intellectual life in Turkey. […] Unlike strictly academic historical research, reaching a much more limited readership, popular historical texts can serve the purpose of spreading nationalist ideology to wider populations, and fulfill the need for a “history of the people”. In Turkey during the 1950s and 60s, popular historical literature was produced in the framework of the new Ottoman-centered historical discourse, and managed to reach populations of Turkish readers less exposed to academic historical discourse and less influenced by Kemalist reforms, i.e. non-elite classes. — Ruth Barzilai-Lumbroso, Turkish Men and the History of Ottoman Women: Studying the History of the Ottoman Dynasty’s Private Sphere Through Women’s Writings.

As for your last question, I think the woman accused of adultery is not the same princess who married the Mamluk sultan:

they’re two different notes referring to two different women:

Even without this inter-dynastic marriage between an Ottoman princess and a Mamluk Sultan (which I couldn’t confirm, not even by reading Marino Sanuto’s Diarii), there is so much information about Bayezid II’s daughters.

It was very interesting to read and research, thank you :D

[gemsofgreece]

what is the traditional attire of greeks from istanbul/constantinople ?

The Constantinopolitan Greeks were amongst the most prosperous ethnic communities of the city and quite possibly the one which had developed the most tight connections with the West. As a result, they were probably the city´s first inhabitants and also perhaps the first Greeks to adopt the "frángika", the western fashion, or at least incorporate a lot of its elements to their clothing. This is why the Constantinopolitan Greek historical fashion has more of a western urban instead of an eastern folk feel.

Men were wearing suits basically.

The information we have corresponding to the period before the westernisation of Greek Constantinopolitan fashion is scant but here´s a drawing of Greeks of Constantinople from 1717.

[gremlingottoosilly]

loser! könig with bimbo reader who likes so indulge in his interests.. maybe she wants to ride him while watching/facing tv while he tells all the little facts in her ear?

Nothing gets this man harder than having his precious bimbo girlfriend bouncing on his cock while he is infodumping her about something that he likes. And he likes a lot of things! From war history - just ask this man about first World War or whatever Ottoman empire was doing in he region a couple hundreds years ago, and you will have your answer. He is like a child, sometimes, even in such perverted setting - your pussy is leaking on his pants as you ride him and he doesn't even falter as he stumbles across his words while saying some dates and names. He never had anyone to listen to him so intently - he could literally just recite a TV guide to you, and you'd still be your adorable, dazzled self, surprised at every word he is saying like it's the gospel. He knows you don't know a lot of things - dumb thing, you barely finished high school and slept your way through some mediocre college but it's okay, he is your prophet now. If you have a question, he has extensive knowledge to answer it. And if you want to listen about his hobbies or interests, he will gladly pull out his phone with tons of pictures and examples. Konig knows you're too fucked out of your mind every time his cock gently massages your cervix or slams on your gummy inner walls to actually listen to him, but he doesn't mind. Even when you forget everything he told you while he is playing with your clit, he isn't afraid of repeating it to you -- his precious girl deserve to be knowledgable, after all. Such a good, pretty girl, and just for him.

[dollishmehrayan]

# BATBOYS WITH A TURKISH!READER ── .✦ ( written already in the title ⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ )

dollish note ౨ৎ: this is requested by amazing @natsbloggg and enjoy you guys and please tell me if got anything wrong and also this is so funny because I’m going to to turkey in 2 months and then after my trip I need to move again if you didn’t know I just moved so yeah if I don’t post much that’s why my life is getting busy soon 🥲 tags: (batboys x Turkish!reader)

© dollishmehrayan — ( all rights reserved to me. These works cannot be reposted, translated, or modified. Thank you for understanding dollies! )

DICK GRAYSON ── .✦

Tries so hard to learn Turkish. His pronunciation is tragic at first, but he gets better.

“Günaydın, aşkım!” (sounds like: goon-eye-denn...ash-come?)

Absolutely obsessed with Turkish breakfast. He will wake you up just to set it up together.

“Wait, we get cheese AND olives AND honey? Every morning?? This is heaven.”

He wants to learn all the dances at weddings and ends up being the overly enthusiastic foreigner who somehow becomes the crowd favorite.

You catch him watching Turkish dramas and crying like it’s a sport.

JASON TODD ── .✦

Knows a few key words: “aşkım,” “hayır,” “çay,” and “ne?”

But also knows how to curse in Turkish and uses it with impressive accuracy.

Pretends to grumble when your family insists he eat more, but he secretly loves the home-cooked Turkish food.

He even tries to learn your grandma’s recipes. "Teach me how to make dolma or I’ll riot."

Super protective of you and lowkey fascinated by your history and culture he’ll stay up reading about the Ottoman Empire and then drop facts out of nowhere.

Brings Turkish delight ( is a proper gift there? ) as a gift when visiting your family, trying to win everyone over.

TIM DRAKE ── .✦

Has a whole Google Doc of Turkish phrases and cultural notes he’s compiled.

“So I shouldn’t use ‘tamam’ sarcastically, got it.”

He’s blown away by your language’s structure and will 100% ask you to explain agglutinative verbs.

(If your Muslim) Tries to fast with you during Ramadan even though he’s not built for it. He faints by iftar and you’re like, “Babe… it’s only day two.”

Gets deeply invested in Turkish poetry and tries to quote Rumi or Nazım Hikmet to impress you.

DAMIAN WAYNE ── .✦

Starts learning Turkish just to communicate better with your family, even if they speak English he sees it as a matter of respect.

When someone in the League insults your culture, he goes full wrath mode. “Say one more thing about Türkiye. I dare you.”

Secretly loves the music, especially traditional Turkish instruments like the bağlama don’t be surprised if he’s trying to learn it.

Stubbornly insists on doing things your cultural way during holidays.

“We are having Şeker Bayramı with the proper sweets, and that’s final.”

BRUCE WAYNE ── .✦

Fluent in Turkish within six months. You’re not even surprised.

Will absolutely fund Turkish cultural projects, books, or charities if it’s something you care about.

Quietly joins your family’s traditions with full respect and zero complaints.

“Of course, I brought lokum. And yes, I removed my shoes.”

If you’re homesick, he arranges Turkish radio/music playlists, gets Turkish groceries imported, and turns the manor into a little piece of home.

[gracie-eilish]

fall-ing… part two

pairings: up and coming singer!reader x billie

warnings: mention of ankle injury per part one

an: if billie flirted with me while dressed like this i’d genuinely drop dead right there😍

… this is the most fanfiction fanfic i’ve ever written😂😂

You’d been trying to avoid the press of bodies inside the Met for the better part of half an hour.

It was too hot, too loud. Your dress, for all its beauty, was beginning to itch. Your ankle pulsed dully, just enough to remind you that yes, you had dramatically fallen on the most prestigious red carpet in fashion history. At least you were no longer the center of every lens.

Now, you were perched out on one of the few less crowded balconies that overlooked the city. The air was blessedly cool, wrapping around your flushed skin as you leaned back on the high-top stool, ankle elevated on a cushioned ottoman some staffer had mercifully fetched for you.

Sabrina Carpenter sat beside you, one leg crossed elegantly over the other, sipping champagne from a slender glass and leaning into your space like you were telling her a secret. The two of you knew each other since you were both on the same record label. You thanked the stars when you saw the tiny blonde bouncing around earlier, happy to have a friend somewhere in the sea of industry strangers.

“Okay, okay, but you have to admit it,” she said between giggles. “You still looked damn good even when you faceplanted.”

You groaned, throwing your head back with a dramatic sigh. “Sabrina, please. I’m begging you. Let me fade quietly into obscurity.”

“Oh, sweetie,” she cooed, “after tonight? Obscurity left the chat. You’ve officially entered the cultural lexicon.”

You covered your face with your hands. “I want to die.”

She just laughed and nudged your shoulder. “You’re fine. Trust me, if I’d biffed it like that, I’d be sobbing in the bathroom. You got rescued by Billie fucking Eilish. In front of the whole damn world. That’s not humiliation, that’s like.. fanfic.”

You blinked at her. “I was trying not to think about that part.”

But before she could reply, her gaze shifted over your shoulder. Her brows lifted, mouth twitching into a knowing smirk.

“Speaking of fanfic,” she murmured. “Incoming.”

You followed her line of sight, and your heart promptly tripped over itself again.

Billie.

She was walking toward you like something out of a fever dream. Her dress moved like smoke, and even though her expression was cool and composed, her eyes found yours like a heat-seeking missile. She looked like she belonged to another world, but in that moment, it felt like she’d stepped out of it just for you.

You sat up straighter without meaning to.

“Billie!” Sabrina called out, lifting a hand.

Billie smiled softly and nodded. “Hey pretty girl!!”

Sabrina turned to you with a grin that said ‘I’m about to be annoying’ and leaned in to whisper, “Don’t say I never did anything for you,” before standing up.

“I’m gonna grab drinks. You guys talk,” she announced, already walking away.

You shot her a ‘don’t you dare’ look, but she just winked and vanished through the balcony doors.

Billie stepped up beside you, her hands tucked into the sheer gloves that reached her elbows.

“You okay?” she asked, tilting her head toward your ankle.

You nodded, adjusting your posture again, nervous all of a sudden. “Yeah, it’s… I mean, it still hurts like hell. But I’ve graduated from full-blown crisis to mildly inconvenienced.”

Her lips quirked. “You really went for it, huh?”

“Apparently the universe wanted me to arrive with a bang.”

“Worked,” she said softly.

You blinked at her. “What?”

Billie shrugged, but her eyes lingered on you a little too long. “You stole the night. Honestly, when you fell, I thought it was staged.”

You laughed. “I wish it was. But no. That was all me and a little too much satin.”

She smiled, her weight shifting subtly toward you. “Well… you handled it like a badass.”

“Is that what I looked like?” you teased. “Because inside I was spiraling.”

“I saw grace,” she said simply.

You looked at her then, really looked, and something tightened in your chest. That same warmth you felt earlier when she came to your rescue hadn’t left. If anything, it was stronger now. Here, without the press and the chaos. Just the two of you. Breathing the same soft night air.

“I’m Y/N by the way.. Don’t think I told you that earlier,” you said in between nervous giggles. Billie chuckled her signature little laugh before replying.

“Billie. And no, you didn’t. You kinda just flopped into my arms.”

You groaned for the nth time that night, making Billie laugh again as she stole Sabrina’s seat.

“So… where’s the boyfriend?” She wiggled her eyebrows trying to pretend to be supportive.

“Oh he’s um.. he’s…” You inhaled slowly. Your voice dropped. “Can I tell you something?”

Billie leaned closer, her curiosity piqued. “Course.”

You gave a little wave of your hand. “Not real. He’s just… PR.”

Her brows rose just slightly, but she didn’t interrupt.

“I’m a lesbian,” you continued quietly. “But, you know, I guess I’ve got this whole ‘girl next door’ image?? Management thought that if I wanted to really make it, I needed to… play the part. So I didn’t get much of a say. How fucked is that??”

For a beat, Billie didn’t say anything. Her expression stayed neutral.

Then she said, “Huh. Didn’t see that coming.”

You gave a small, awkward laugh. “Yeah, well. Welcome to the industry Y/N.”

She nodded once, then leaned in a little closer, her voice a whisper now. “Just so you know… I’m like screaming on the inside.”

Your heart thudded so hard you were sure she could hear it.

“You are?”

“So loud,” she said, eyes flicking briefly to your lips before meeting your gaze again. “Trying really hard to play it cool right now.”

You tilted your head, smirking despite yourself. “And how’s that going for you?”

“Terribly,” she murmured.

You laughed again, warmer this time. Billie mirrored it, her hand reaching out to rest lightly on the edge of your stool.

“I kept looking for you inside,” she said. “Was starting to think I imagined you.”

“I was hiding,” you admitted. “Too many people. Too many cameras.”

“Well,” she said, taking a step closer, “I’m glad you suck at hiding.”

She was close enough now that you could smell her perfume—something dark and clean and quietly expensive. Your knee brushed her leg when you shifted.

“I’d offer to take you dancing,” she murmured, “but I don’t think your ankle would forgive me.”

You grinned. “Rain check?”

“Absolutely.” She dipped her head, her voice going even softer. “But if you need help getting back to your hotel… I’m told I’m very good at lifting people.”

You blinked. “Are you hitting on me?”

She grinned. “Little bit.”

“And what if I said I liked it?”

Her voice dropped. “Then I’d say let me take you home right now.”

Your breath hitched.

For a moment, the sounds of the Gala behind the doors fell away, the laughter, the music, the clinking glasses, and all you could hear was your pulse pounding in your ears and the slow, deliberate sound of Billie breathing just inches away.

“You’re trouble,” you whispered, smirking.

She leaned in, her lips nearly brushing your ear. “Only if you say yes.”

Billie’s words still lingered in your ear, like a ghost of a kiss that hadn’t quite happened.

You were suspended in a bubble of heat and proximity, so close to her that you could feel the whisper of her breath along your jaw. Your reply was tangled on your tongue, dizzy with the sheer intensity of her. And then-

“Ok so I only have two hands so someone’s not getting a drink, I hope that’s okay.”

Sabrina’s voice cut clean through the moment, playful and dramatic, like someone popping a balloon with a fork.

She sauntered back onto the balcony, cradling two glasses of champagne, and handed one to you without missing a beat. Her gaze flicked back and forth between you and Billie with just enough exaggeration to make her point.

“What’s going on out here?? What did I miss?”

Billie leaned back a fraction, clearly unfazed. She raised a brow at Sabrina. “Just chatting”

You, on the other hand, took the champagne and sipped just to give yourself something to do. “Sabrina,” you murmured. “Subtlety.”

She grinned and perched on the stone railing beside you, her short dress catching the breeze like a flag for chaos.

“I saw nothing,” she lied sweetly, taking a sip. “Just two gals chatting. With, like, eyes full of heat. And zero personal space.” She said the last bit into her glass as she took a gulp.

You rolled your eyes, but you were smiling, too. Billie didn’t even bother denying it, she just kept glancing at you like you were the only person left at the Met.

“So,” Sabrina said, swinging her legs, “are we getting matching tattoos after this or…?”

But before you could shoot back a comeback, the balcony door creaked open again. And this time, it was your “boyfriend.”

He looked like a Dior ad come to life, all polished cheekbones and empty charm. You saw the way his eyes skipped over Billie and Sabrina, clearly not recognizing who he was standing in front of.

“There you are,” he said, slipping a practiced arm loosely around your shoulders. “Driver’s waiting. You’ve got to change for the after-party circuit.”

Billie’s jaw shifted ever so slightly.

She straightened, her voice casually cutting. “We’ll get her there.”

Your “boyfriend” blinked. “Uh—sorry?”

“She’ll be out soon,” Billie said coolly, her tone like velvet over a blade. “We’ll help her down. You go ahead.”

Something in her voice didn’t ask. It told.

Sabrina hummed into her glass. You stifled a laugh.

Your not-boyfriend raised a brow, clearly unsure of how to respond. But Billie just stared at him, utterly calm.

After a beat, he caved.

“Alright. Cool. I’ll… be downstairs.” He dropped a kiss onto the top of your head, a meaningless brush of lips, and disappeared back inside.

The door swung closed behind him.

The second he was gone, you burst into laughter.

“Oh my god, that was incredible,” you gasped. “You made him run away.”

Billie shrugged like it was no big deal. “He’s a really bad actor. You deserve at least someone who can pretend better.”

Sabrina snorted. “She deserves someone who actually wants to kiss her.”

That made Billie glance at you again, and suddenly the air crackled with silence.

You took another sip, your lips curling around the edge of the glass.

“So,” Billie started, leaning in a little, “what parties are you heading to?”

You tilted your head. “Why? Are you planning to stalk me?”

She didn’t flinch. “Absolutely.”

You raised a brow, intrigued. “You’re not even gonna play coy about it?”

“Nope. I want to see you again tonight. Preferably not with that boyfriend anywhere near.”

Sabrina let out a dramatic sigh. “And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I’m third-wheeling for life.”

You laughed, eyes locked with Billie’s. “I’m at the GQ after-party first. Then probably that private one at the Mercer. And I’m at The Bowery tonight, the room facing the park.”

Billie smiled slowly, her tongue poking into her cheek in a way that made your stomach twist. “Duly noted.”

You raised a brow. “You planning a late-night escape?”

“Depends,” she said softly. “You letting me in?”

Sabrina groaned theatrically, sliding off the railing. “Alright, lovers, let’s move. If we don’t get down there soon, someone’s gonna think you fell again.”

As the three of you made your way back through the elegant halls of the Met, Billie’s hand slid around your waist.

You didn’t protest.

Your ankle didn’t even really hurt anymore, but the warmth of her touch, the protective way she kept you close, the subtle pressure of her fingers resting just above your hip? You weren’t about to give that up.

Sabrina kept pace ahead of you, playing it cool, but every so often you caught her giving you a look over her shoulder that screamed “oh my god, girl.”

By the time you reached the grand marble staircase again, it was quieter—most guests had already filtered inside or out to their after-party plans.

Your driver texted again. Billie glanced at your phone, then at you.

“You’ll be okay with him?” she asked, though you both already knew the answer.

You nodded. “He won’t even ask where I’m going.”

“Good,” she said. “Because I’m hoping you’ll come find me instead.”

You smirked, stepping slowly down the steps, her arm still steady around you.

“I will,” you promised.

Billie’s fingers slid ever so slightly lower on your waist. “Can’t wait.”

You exchanged one last look, full of heat, possibility, and something far too charged to be fleeting, before the three of you stepped into the night, each headed to your own car… and maybe, just maybe, toward something else entirely.

[metamorphesque]

Monte Melqonyan/Մոնթե Մելքոնյան (1957-1993)

Honestly, I don't even know where to begin. He's one of those extraordinary individuals about whom countless books could be written and numerous movies could be made, yet still, so much would remain untold. You might wonder, "He's a National Armenian Hero—cool, but why should I know about him?" My answer is simple: if the world had more people like him, especially in today's times, it would be a much better place. He fought for justice, embodied culture and education, and radiated a deep love for his people and humanity as a whole. I believe everyone should aspire to have a little bit of Monte's spirit within them, regardless of their nationality.

Now, it's important to note that some things written about him in the Western press can be questionable and inaccurate. So, I would advise taking most of the information from those sources with a grain of salt.

Monte was born on November 25, 1957, into an Armenian family in Visalia, California, that had survived the Armenian Genocide. From 1969 to 1970, his family traveled through Western Armenia, the birthplace of his ancestors. During this journey, Monte, at the age of twelve, began to realize his Armenian identity. While taking Spanish language courses in Spain, his teacher had posed him the question of where he was from. Dissatisfied with Melkonian's answer of "California", the teacher rephrased the question by asking "where did your ancestors come from?" His brother Markar Melqonyan remarked that "her image of us was not at all like our image of ourselves. She did not view us as the Americans we had always assumed we were." From this moment on, for days and months to come, Markar continues, "Monte pondered [their teacher Señorita] Blanca's question Where are you from?"

In high school, he excelled academically and struggled to find new challenges. Instead of graduating early, as suggested by his principal, Monte found an alternative - a study abroad program in East Asia. The decision to go to Japan was not random. He had been attending karate clubs and was the champion of the under-14 category in California. He also studied Japanese culture, including taking Japanese language courses. After completing his studies at a school in Osaka, Japan, he went to South Korea, where he studied under a Buddhist monk. He later traveled to Vietnam, witnessing the war and taking numerous photographs of the conflict. Upon returning to America, he had become proficient in Japanese and karate.

Having graduated from high school, Monte entered the University of California, Berkeley, with a Regents Scholarship, majoring in ancient Asian history and archaeology. In 1978, he helped organize an exhibition of Armenian cultural artifacts at one of the university's libraries. A section of the exhibit dealing with the Armenian Genocide was removed by university authorities at the request of the Turkish consul general in San Francisco, but it was eventually reinstalled following a campus protest movement. Monte completed his undergraduate work in under three years. During his time at the university, he founded the "Armenian Students' Union" and organized an exhibition dedicated to the Armenian Genocide in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the Ottoman Empire and the Republic of Turkey.

Upon graduating, he was accepted into the archaeology graduate program at the University of Oxford. However, Monte chose to forgo this opportunity and instead began his lifelong struggle for the Armenian Cause.

In the fall of 1978, Monte went to Iran and participated in demonstrations against the Shah. Later that year, he traveled to Lebanon, where the civil war was at its peak. In Beirut, he participated in the defense of the Armenian community. Here, he learned Arabic and, by the age of 22, was fluent in Armenian, English, French, Spanish, Italian, Turkish, Persian, Japanese, and Kurdish.

From 1980, Monte joined the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA – I promise to tell you more about them later) and quickly became one of its leaders. In 1981, he participated in the planning of the famous Van operation. In 1981, he was arrested at Orly Airport in France for carrying a false passport and a pistol. During his trial, Monte declared, "All Armenians carry false passports—French, American—they will remain false as long as they are not Armenian." Over the following years, he perfected his military skills at an ASALA training camp, eventually becoming one of the group's principal instructors.

Monte with his wife Seda

After being released from a French prison (once again) in 1989, Monte arrived in Armenia in 1991, where armed clashes between Armenians and azerbaijanis had already begun. He founded the "Patriots" unit and spent seven months in Yerevan working at the Academy of Sciences, writing and publishing the book "Armenia and its Neighbors." In September of the same year, he went to the Republic of Artsakh to fight for his fatherland and its people. Due to his military expertise, he was appointed Chief of Staff of the Martuni defense district in 1992. His sincerity and purity quickly won the love and respect of the local population and the Armenian community as a whole.

Throughout his conscious life, Monte fought for the rights of Armenians, recognition of the Armenian Genocide, and the reclamation of Armenian homeland.

There are various versions of Monte Melqonyan's death circulating in both Armenian and azerbaijani media. According to official Armenian information, Monte was killed on June 12, 1993, by fire from an azerbaijani armored vehicle.

Monte remains a lasting testament to the incredible potential unleashed when the Armenian patriotic heart unites with sharp intellect.

In case you'd like to put a voice to the face and hear about the Artsakh struggle directly from Monte, here he is speaking about it in English.