that-left-turn - Tumblr blog

[that-left-turn]

I really want to like your blog. You have these long posts that appear thoughtful. But what I also notice is your unwillingness to call the caryl stuff what it is. The fandom , which I’m apart of, is dying. Not because of amc or people who love that other ship. It’s because we believed in actors and chemistry that doesn’t have legs. The actual actors do not support us. The actual show runners and writers do not support us. We are grasping at straws to support something that doesn’t really exist. Whining and acting like toddlers instead of staying in our area and enjoying what we have. When they had Carol marry Ezekiel I had to call bs and let it go. This is not Valhalla or amc or richonne, it’s us not being willing to admit we saw something that will never be canon. Why can’t we be happy with what we have? You seem smart and I started following you recently because of that but we need to have some reality about us now because we are fighting ghosts and we look stupid. Carol could have married Daryl instead of Ezekiel or sleeping with Tobin 🤮 Daryl could have stayed to watch over the kids with Carol. We need to stop letting twd make us look stupid for trailing us along. And we keep letting them do it.

My perspective on Caryl is rooted in how these things are handled by studios and the productions. There are a lot of instances that want a say regarding what couple goes canon and when, and more than one factor as to why. I agree with you that the fandom is dying and that the "people who love that other ship" isn't the cause, but it's not because Caryl's chemistry wasn't there.

I'll run down the main points of my reasoning:

The industry has changed a lot since the start of TWD. AMC is a basic cable network, which means their traditional means of revenue are ad sales and syndication. Certain rules were observed regarding the main/big ships of the shows that existed in that market space and Caryl is a product of those parameters. The relationships from this programming era were teased endlessly to have people tune in from week to week and the general assumption was that the audience would lose interest once the couple went canon. Also, because episodes aired out of order in syndication, it was normal to try and preserve the status quo from episode to episode.

Daryl is an original character for the TV show, so AMC outright owns the rights to him. That's why he is the most marketed/promoted character—because they stood to profit the most from him. Male (romantic) leads are not written the same way anymore that was true for the early seasons of TWD. They were supposed to be unattainable and most often emotionally unavailable for one reason or another, so the show could maintain what was seen as the core story engine.

AMC is deeply steeped in a white male business culture. (The Dolans are essentially the Roy family from Succession.) As we've seen on TWD, the female characters are by and large irrelevant, interchangeable and something to be pitted against each other unlike their male counterparts. The execs thought they'd draw female viewers by promoting Daryl as the Bachelor of the Apocalypse, especially as he couldn't be paired up with the end-game ship.

Scott M. Gimple is a petty vicious little man.

"The writers" are innocent in all this. They can and often do have their own opinions, but they're not in charge of what happens to a ship. That's a negotiation between the showrunner and the studio. Changes in showrunner changes the vision of the show. Most often because the studio wants that change but sometimes because the showrunner touched someone in ways that are inappropriate. The writers are the Greek chorus: they're not individuals per se, they mimic the voice of the showrunner.

Unless the actors have gone on record somewhere (against the terms of their NDAs) on whether they support a ship or not, assumptions on the topic are subjective. One way or the other.

Ezekiel and Tobin were part of Carol's character arc. Tobin had the same body type that Ed did, so he was a step in Carol reclaiming her sexuality and like Ezekiel, it goes to show the level of control she needs over her intimate partnerships. However, there were also BTS reasons for those choices, which had to do with Gimple's vision for the show. And, Daryl couldn't stay to watch over the kids with Carol because he was headed for the spinoff.

The original Carol and Daryl spinoff was pitched by Josh Sapan who was the AMC Networks CEO (the big boss) at the time. He was aware that there was money to be made by marketing a show about these two characters, otherwise he wouldn't have pushed for it. The intention was for canon Caryl in the spinoff, but due to backstage maneuverings, the showrunner got fired, the concept was revised and "the other lead" was forced out.

Any fan who's happy and enjoying what they have, should continue to do so. I'm not arguing with anyone's feelings on the matter. Just like I think fans who aren't happy have the right to tell AMC what they will pay for; it's a negotiation of a business transaction. I have zero faith in Zabel and Nicotero was the point person for most of TBOC due to the WGA strike, so viewers should go into the situation with their eyes open regardless of their personal preferences.

Personally, I want canon because that's the payoff for how both Carol and Daryl's character arcs have been written—they mirror each other and their joint emotional arc has been romantically coded since the start. Promotion hasn't kicked off yet and I need to hear what TPTB say and, more importantly, what they don't to make an informed decision on what I think.

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Norman did have a lot of control for s1 of DD, he was the one who wanted to cast Clemence, he told tptb he wanted a new showrunner and writers and that's why Kang was fired. I don't know why people keep underestimating his power

This is the first time I've heard that Norman wanted to cast Clémence. I know he hardly talked to her on set and she didn't particularly take to him either.

However, I'm well aware that Kang got fired because Norman didn't deal well with some of what she wrote for his character and some of what she didn't write 🙄 I'm not underestimating Norman's power, but I also know his wishes coincided with what other people in the production/franchise wanted.

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Danai wasn't apart of the writers'room, like she said the episode she wrote was only seen by Gimple, Andy, Denise and the network beforehand. Her and Andy did interact with the writers to implement different ideas for some episodes, but since the 3 creators already broke down the main storyline before the writers started their work the process was easier. AMC wanted Rick and Michonne to reunite in episode 5 and they ended up telling Danai that they made the right choice at the LA premiere, so i don't think the network has a good grasp of what their audience wants.

All right, it sounds like Danai and Andy did script notes, and the show creator always breaks down the season (they write what's called a “treatment”) before the writers’ room is assembled.

You’re 💯 right that AMC has trouble understanding their audience. The studio has a reputation as a bad place to be a writer and it’s hard to predict their production choices because they don’t seem to do proper market research. “Shit stirring” is not a viable marketing technique to ensure long-term audience engagement, i.e. not all likes are good likes.

Showrunners keep an eye on their fandoms to know what hits the right beat and what doesn't. It’s part of the job to understand your audience, so Zabel should be aware of what fans say. To judge from the promotion he’s done so far, he doesn’t seem to have taken any of it under consideration, but we’ll have better and more current info once the promo circuit begins.

It looks like TBOC will have Caryl reunited in the last block. They might see each other in 204 and 205 picks up from the tag. I hope it’ll be a great reunion.

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When it comes to the EP , why did AMC give Danai and Andy so much creative control, casting actors, approving scripts and even in what episode the characters meet up. Wouldn't Norman and Mel have that same level of control?

The “Rick movies” were stuck in development hell for years with Gimple unable to write something AMC wanted to produce. Andy and Danai were brought on because nobody had confidence in Gimple. They both have co-creator credit, which gave them greater influence over the direction of the show than an EP title.

If Danai was Gimple’s “number two” (the boss in the writers’ room when the showrunner isn’t present), it gave her script approval.

When the showrunner’s too busy, a senior EP can attend casting. The casting director already knows what the showrunner wants, so it’s more of an emissary mission.

The decision of when the characters meet up would’ve been made early in the process of breaking the story and probably as a measure to stop Gimple from having a messy and convoluted timeline.

Different actors on different shows working with different people in power under different circumstances have different contracts.

Norman isn’t a co-creator for Daryl Dixon. He and Melissa are not writing EPs, so they read the scripts and get to write what’s known as “notes,” which go to the showrunner (along with other EPs’ and studio notes) before the writer of the specific episode gets instructions for their next draft.

The showrunner has discretion of what to do with those notes. It’s not a democracy, so not everyone has to be happy and there’s a distinct hierarchy of command to a production. So the short answer is: no, Norman and Melissa don't have the same level of control.

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You’re spewing nonsense like that other account, there’s no proof that Zabel just watched the last few minutes of the the main show, and Norman is EP too, if he wasn’t happy with Ezekiel being mentioned he would’ve said.

Mel and Norm are EP’s, everything you don’t like this season remember they approved it, that includes the “nunbaiting”

That's not how a TV production works, though. Melissa and Norman are EPs, yes, but they don't have veto rights. The only instance that does is the studio. There seems to be a widespread misconception in the fandom about the power an executive producer has.

It's circumstantial evidence, I agree with that, but all signs point to that Zabel's only watched the last few minutes of the show, if at all. If he's seen all of TWD, he’s not a competent showrunner as he disregards canon backstories as he sees fit. Do enough of that and the audience loses faith, which will lead to the boss being very unhappy at the decline in ratings.

I doubt Norman cared one way or the other if Ezekiel was mentioned. Actor EPs worry about their own character’s arc, not the big picture or the minutiae of ensuring continuity—that's part of the script supervisor's and showrunner's duties. Norman could've mentioned that Zeke and Daryl aren't best friends in his notes, but it was ignored because it's a tiny detail. Or he didn't, because you pick your battles and that's not a hill any actor will die on. Like you said, there's no proof of what he said, thought or did. I don't claim to know what goes on in Norman's head.

What I do know is how far an executive producer's area of influence extends. The EPs of a show don't all have to approve of something for it to make its way onscreen. I'm not snatching this out of thin air, but I also won't insist that anyone believe me. Watch the show and see if you like it. If you do, none of the above matters because you got your enjoyment out of it.

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Sweet Summer Child

A continuation of Sweet Summer Child in honor of Mother's Day. This one is for all motherless daughters, whatever form that might take ❤️‍🩹 I wish today is kind to you.

There's a girl... woman marching across the parking lot. Long stride. Knee-high buckled boots. Her hair is up in a sleek ponytail that swishes as she walks. For a moment, Carol envies the straight length of it, the color not so far off from her own. Only lighter by degrees. Then she recognizes that it's an unchristian thought and checks it.

As she comes into closer view, Carol sees that she has a sheath with a knife strapped to her thigh. She looks lethal, with what appears to be a fancy compound hunting bow strapped to her back. She's tall and lean, and nothing like the girls from the area. Even the ones who have daddies to take them hunting.

As she comes inside the diner, she stops when she catches sight of Carol at the counter and smiles. "Hi," she says, with a little wave of the hand and in a few strides, she's sliding onto one of the stools at the front counter after stowing her bow against it. "I hope you don't mind," she says, "I don't have a car to leave it in."

Carol shakes her head, feeling the bun of wayward curls wobble on top of her head and she briefly wonders how the other woman even got there if she doesn’t have a car. "Coffee while you look at the menu?" Carol slides the laminated booklet across the counter.

"Yes, please," her customer smiles again and Carol is certain this is the prettiest girl she's ever seen. Hazel eyes and striking eyebrows, with high cheekbones and freckles. Oh so many freckles. More prominent than Carol's own, but they look good and she has such a happy, infectious smile that Carol can't help but to smile right back.

"All right," she turns to grab a cup and the coffee pot, happy it's a fresh brew and hasn't been sitting on the hot plate for hours.

"The survivalist special, Three Sisters ABC Soup, sounds good." Carol's new and mysterious guest looks a bit wistful, like she's lost down memory lane and can't decide if she just wants to turn around. "My dad used to tell the story of the three sisters, do you know it?"

Carol shakes her head. The three sisters are corn, squash and beans which Carol’s grandma learned from her grandma to always plant together because they grow and protect one another in a symbiotic relationship. The dish is Carol’s first contribution to the menu, an experiment aimed at the participants of the survivalist courses out on Route 12. She’s foraged wild onion and there's rabbit from the snares her grandma taught her how to set, so the ‘survivalist special’ is a little different from the usual comfort dishes on the menu, like biscuits and gravy or fried catfish. Carol's been nervous if diners will like it and now, she finds out that she doesn’t even know the story to go with it.

"In Cherokee lore, they were three women who helped each other stay fed, hydrated and strong on the Trail of Tears when the Cherokee people were forced off their lands. They had no other family than each other.” The other girl rearranges the salt and pepper shakers, and turns the handle of the syrup dispenser the other way around. “Selu was tall and lean, and she'd use her strength to help her sisters keep upright and moving when they got tired. Tuya was agile and alert, and she’d disappear into the thick brush around the trail to reappear with food to keep her sisters alive. And Iya was dependable and observant. She noticed things along the trail, like small springs of water, which would keep the sisters refreshed."

There's a sadness to her that Carol aches to relieve, she's not sure why. Maybe because it's the Christian thing to do and the other girl literally just told a story about cooperation and empathy. “It’s a beautiful story.” She busies herself with getting a bowl and scooping up a portion of the fragrant broth with the right ratio of vegetables and meat. Carol can't do much else to alleviate whatever sorrows the other girl carries, but she can feed her.

“My mom made soup with alphabet pasta when I didn’t feeling well as a kid,” the girl continues, plucking at the napkin wrapped silverware in front of her. “I’d leave my name in the bottom of the bowl when I’d finished.” She looks up and smiles at Carol, her eyes lingering.

“You’re close with your mom?” That must be nice. Carol’s memories of her mother are hazy for the most part. She remembers her mom teaching her how to lift wallets without getting caught and how to pick the right marks. She also remembers the police station in Atlanta where her grandmother picked her up late one night when Carol hadn’t been careful enough and her mom got arrested as a result.

The girl nods, taking the spoon in her left hand and stirs the soup before looking up. "My mom..." There's a pause, weighing in the air, as the girl looks at Carol. Really looks at her. "She's the whole package. A lot to live up to." She smiles and there's so much love in it that Carol could almost imagine what it's like having a bond like that with your mother.

After Mama got custody, Carol only saw her mom occasionally before postcards from faraway places replaced her physical presence. They’d randomly show up in the mail: Reno NV, Cheyenne WY, Santa Fe NM, El Paso TX... Eventually, they stopped coming too. So, she doesn’t have that connection to her own mother, but if Carol ever has children of her own, she wants to give them all the love her mom couldn’t give her.

“This is sooo good,” the other girl moans around a mouthful and Carol beams at the praise. Her eating and wiping her mouth with the back of her hand reminds Carol of Dixon and she smiles at the sight... and the thought of him.

She’s seen him twice since the picnic. Once, while he scarfed down his food so fast it looked like he was afraid that someone would take it from him and the other time had been awkward. Dixon had seemed lost in thought, staring out into the darkness, not really saying anything. Carol doesn’t know if he was uncomfortable with her after the picnic. If people had implied something to him. She also doesn’t know what she was thinking, dressing up like a slut and almost throwing herself at the man over a game of Cornhole. So embarrassing. It’s not wonder if Dixon is uncomfortable around her.

The sound of the door opening snatches Carol from her thoughts and there he is. He halfway raises his hand in greeting, but when the other girl turns around to face him, Dixon does a double take, like he’s not sure what he’s seeing.

“Hi Dad.”

He doesn’t reply. His whole body is still and Carol isn’t sure he’s even breathing. It looks like shock, like ‘hi dad’ is way too much to take in. Wait. What? This is Lydia? She isn’t at all what Carol pictured in her mind. She’d expected a nice Midwestern girl—wholesome and milkfed—not someone sophisticated and armed for bear.

Lydia gets up, walks over to him and after a moment of them staring at each other—Dixon looks like he’s seeing a ghost—she hugs him. Lydia’s tall, but skinny, so when he very tentatively raises his arms to embrace her, she vanishes within the span of his biceps. The moment expands... Then there’s a small sound coming from him, almost like a whimper and his arms tighten around the girl.

Carol tears up at the sight. It’s so heartfelt, almost like finding long lost family and she can see it so clearly now. Those cheekbones are her dad’s, just like the table manners.

When Dixon releases his daughter, his hand hover by her cheek, not quite touching her. “How are you here?” His voice is small and filled with wonder, but Lydia only covers his hand with hers, holds it against her cheek for a moment.

“I need to talk to you. Can we take a walk?” she says finally and Carol busies herself with wiping down the counter. Staring at imaginary stains. It’s a reunion—a family moment and she’s an intruder. Of course they want some privacy. “I need to get my bow and pay up.”

A couple of steps later, Lydia is once more in her field of vision, bending over to grab her fancy bow. Carol remembers Dixon saying his wife hunted with a bow, so she wonders if this is that bow. Lydia’s mom must have taught her how to use it and Carol swallows against the sudden lump in her throat. All she learned from her mom was to stick her hand into a pocket or purse without anyone noticing and help herself to its contents.

“How much do I owe you?”

Carol wills her tears to subside. It’s stupid to be jealous over a relationship Lydia doesn’t have anymore, just as stupid as being jealous of Dixon’s late wife. The irony of that being the same person isn’t lost on Carol, but she shouldn’t covet what other people have. Or had. Envy is a sin and Lydia deserves more consideration. She’s nice, like her dad and Carol’s mom might be lost, but she isn’t dead. Carol really has to work harder at being a better person.

“It’s on the house,” she says, forcing a smile, but she can feel her chin wobble. “For being the first to try it.”

Lydia looks at her, scans her face for something—Carol’s pretty sure that in the background Dixon studies her too, but she won’t raise her gaze to look at him. “Thank you,” the other girl says, “It was nice to meet you.” It’s a thing people say to be polite, but something about Lydia suggests that she actually means it.

“It’s nice meeting you too,” Carol attempts another smile. She wasn’t raised in a barn, she has some manners, but she makes the mistake of casting a glance over Lydia’s shoulder to acknowledge Dixon’s presence. He’s watching them like a hawk. Expression unreadable, but unblinking. Then Carol sees that he too has tears in his eyes. When Lydia clears her throat, she snaps back into reality.

“All right, Dad, let’s go.”

Dixon holds the door open for his daughter and Carol watches them for a moment through the window. They move in sync towards his bike. Dixon gestures to her bow and Lydia shrugs, showing him how it’s strapped to her back. It’s wholesome. A dad being concerned for his daughter’s safety on the back of the bike. Carol’s own dad is... not thoughtful like that.

She looks away. She should be working, not spying on the customers. With a sigh, Carol grabs the empty bowl to put it in the washer, but glancing down, the alphabet pasta letters left at the bottom don’t say LYDIA. It says NOTED. Like, she agrees with something? Carol frowns and then decides that she’s being stupid. Again. Lydia didn’t leave her a message. Why would she? They don’t know each other like that. Lydia’s last mouthful just got interrupted because her dad showed up. There’s even a piece of meat in there, so unless that’s part of the secret message, Carol’s imagining things. As usual.

Thank you for reading 🙏 I've had a lot of long tedious posts, so I hope this one was better/more enjoyable. Happy Mother's Day.

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Thank you. That was a really thorough answer. I wonder if a fall release for TBOC might be a good thing after all. Summer, June especially, is so busy in terms of good TV that I thought TBOC might get lost in all the noise. Here’s hoping for a good season!

A fall release is better than summer. Especially in June as promo should've been in full swing already and screeners would've been sent out to reviewers. And, I agree, let's hope for a good season 🤞

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Saw your post about advertising revenue going down. Subscriptions to AMC for Q1 went up while TOWL was airing. What are your hopes for TBOC drawing in new audiences for AMC? Do you think Caryl is a big enough draw and if not in its current state what needs to change?

Subscriptions going up while TOWL aired was good (for AMC). The question is if it's fans of that particular show dipping in and then dropping off? AMC can't appeal to the larger TWD fanbase for all the spinoffs. They've slimmed down, so they need to find ways to grow those individual audiences and they need to retain them for the longhaul.

The appeal of TBOC is in the lead characters and sadly, not the story. Zabel hasn't done his homework (which an incoming showrunner should do): he has either only watched the montage and final scene of the flagship show, or he's relying on what other EPs have told him about the characters and their arcs. That's why he thought Ezekiel was Daryl's friend, since he was there to see Daryl off in the series finale.

Contrary to what you'd believe from looking at the fandom and the loudest screaming individuals, Carol resonates with the general audience, so seeing her again will probably draw curious viewers, but will they stick around? It depends largely on how her character arc is handled and also, her relationship with Daryl. They have natural chemistry, which the show should capitalize on as it comes with a built-in audience.

Will it, though?

From what I know about TBOC, Carol and Daryl's individual arcs merge at the end of block 2/beginning of block 3, so 204-205-ish. That means half the season has them separated. That's not ideal for a show where the main appeal lies in the relationship between the leads (whether romantic or platonic). Their emotional drives appear uneven, from my limited view of the beats, which might also be a viewer deterrent.

I think AMC needs to go all-in on canon once the storylines intersect—especially as it looks like we're in for some heavy nunbaiting—to at least get some good word of mouth and maybe draw back parts of the audience who've given up on the show. There were people who stopped watching TWD in S7-8 who came back after the original Caryl spinoff was announced. Having a loyal core audience is vital, so the studio needs to insure that those viewers are invested and engaged.

The show also needs a story engine. The escort mission in S1 had little urgency, beyond Daryl looking for a radio, and the actual meat and potatoes of the external plot was nondescript. Laurent was said (prophesied, really, by a Buddhist monk) to be the new Messiah who will "save humanity." It's very fuzzy on the details and not in a way that implies mystery. It screams of hand waving. The show has to draw in horror fans with a season arc that services the genre.

Caryl fans would watch for a good emotional arc and the GA should be treated to a well-conceived external plot. If you can cater to both of those demographics, you can grow the audience (because people tell others when they like a show) but it hinges on tight storytelling. You have to have an actual detailed plan and not a vague idea of where you're going—pantsing might work for a novelist, but never for a screenwriter. There's an A story, a B story and you may have a couple of runners, for the season as well as individual episodes, so a TV show requires organization. (And I'm getting off-topic here, so I'll leave the logistics at that.)

I'm not confident in TBOC based on what I know of Zabel's writing in general, his management of S1, his statements to the media and what I know about TBOC. I think the show needs a redirect into a different subgenre and some fresh ideas that showcase McReedus playing off each other and Caryl being thrust into the unfamiliar (both to the characters and the audience)—we need to see something new while the characters stay in-character to tether them to the character development already done on the flagship show. (And now I've written 'character' so many times that the word has lost all meaning 🙈)

Zabel played loose and fast with Daryl's backstory in S1. Fans are invested in those details and if it's made it to screen, the showrunner can't ignore them to shoehorn the already well-established protagonist into a plot involving new characters. He shouldn't love his own original creations more than the actual main character. All of these things give me pause as to Zabel's suitability as a showrunner for a show that already has a preexisting ecosystem.

That said, it looks like the show is getting delayed to a fall premiere, promo seems to be on a hold and the season finale may still be in post, which could be signs of AMC fixing problems and/or changing direction.

Sorry the answer was neither short nor succinct, but I hope it gave some clarity regarding my thought process. Obviously, like everybody else, I have ideas of what I'd do to increase ratings, but I'm not the person in the hot seat 🙃 I'm waiting for the panel at Tribeca to see what I can decipher from the inevitable sell speak.

It may be a long summer for us.

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I can't even remember how long AMC has offered "a downturn in linear ratings and a challenging ad market" as an explanation for their losses. Yes, traditional broadcast and cable are in decline, but they need higher quality shows.

The TWD franchise, which is the bulk of AMC's portfolio, is old. The shows within the 'universe' need to differentiate from each other—every premise can't be about a family member getting kidnapped, but most of all, they need to find renewed appeal to the audience. I assumed the fast variant and les brûlants were an attempt at a new hook, but getting bogged down in quasi-science won't attract much other than heckling.

AMC has committed to the horror space and they can diversify their TWDU offerings with different elements of the genre. The audience will never have that visceral reaction to walkers again that the first few seasons offered. The mutated walker in season 1 of Dead City was mainly interesting from an FX standpoint and a disinterested "that's gross"—there were no stakes because our heroes have plot armor and everyone else is a red shirt.

Horror should induce some kind of feeling of disquiet. There should be a sense of foreboding.

DC should capitalize on Maggie and Negan's antagonism, but the conceit isn't moving anywhere. There are a lot of hard stares which quickly feel irrelevant and some fans have turned it into a ship because the relationship has stagnated. The audience should have a palpable fear that they will eventually harm each other as the tension escalates. They are both trying to move on: him from being his worst self and her from the worst thing that happened to her. The emotional arc needs to center on that potential loss of their humanity. They are the protagonist in their own arc and the antagonist in in the other's—that framing would be different from what we've already seen on TWD.

I don't even know where to start with Caryl... Trying to find a boat that sails across the Atlantic isn't horror and neither is the debate on whether or not Laurent is a Messiah. (If it's to be religious horror, we need some sort of spiritual evil and the characters in season 1 are simply self-serving.) S1 of Daryl Dixon felt like it didn't have any interest in being a horror show beyond a half-hearted attempt at the bare minimum: the required walkers are thrown into the mix like an almost-afterthought.

Caryl are at the opposite end of the spectrum from Maggie and Negan. They work exceptionally well together and that's part of the draw for the audience, but add an element of the Uncanny, like in FROM:

In a nightmarish town in Middle America that traps those who enter, unwilling residents strive to stay alive and search for a way out, plagued by terrifying nocturnal creatures from the surrounding forest and secrets hidden in the town.

It would present Caryl with a new challenge. Something different. The GA would have a mystery to ponder and Caryl fans could enjoy watching Caryl work on a new sort of problem together. Something they haven't faced before and something that has them stumped. It would lend itself to an emotional arc where they can come to terms with their mutual feelings of inadequacy, because they can see how well they function together when everything else is a challenge.

The key to growing the audience for either of these shows is to transform the concept into something that's attractive in today's market, not a 15-year old formula. AMC needs to set the franchise apart from TLoU too because they suffer from the comparison.

We as an audience are desensitized to body horror—blood and guts have become gratuitous gimmicks that try to cover up that there isn't much of a story. Good horror relies on ambiance, much like S2 of TWD. Fear of the unknown. A creeping sense of dread. That's why viewers (and Norman!) loved the farm arc of the flagship show.

AMC is cash poor because they don't invest in the writing. Their business model (basic cable) is dying, but they're staring too hard at "new technologies." If the studio told good stories, people would subscribe to their streaming service. Distilling the audience into niches of TWD's viewership by focusing the spinoffs on a couple of characters requires AMC to find fresh angles so new viewers will discover these shows. The studio spends too much money on theatrics and not enough on the nuts and bolts of what makes a TV show good: its writing.

David Zabel has no experience writing horror and it's evident from viewing S1 that he clearly has no interest in it. His original characters are dollar store versions of the Roy family in Succession: manipulative and self-absorbed. For horror to be effective, the audience has to care and we don't. (We're mainly waiting for them to die, because that's the TWD brand: raze and burn with no one left alive in the wake of our heroes.) Zabel's an old school network writer who hasn't worked consistently in the last decade, which I assume means AMC got him at a bargain bin price.

I want to feel excitement at TBOC, but I mostly feel dread. That's the real horror show.

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AMC won't get good word of mouth from viewers who hate at least half of the main characters of the show, that should be evident even to the stooges who run the show. Based on the "friends" positioning, I'd venture to guess there will be hard shipbaiting, that the emotional arc will be uneven and it's unlikely we'll get canon. Yes, in the end Daryl will leave with Carol, but at that point Isabelle's already dead, so the question is, how are those beats shaded in the final cut?

I'd suggest that anyone who's on the fence about watching should take note of what Melissa says at the Tribeca panel and how she says it. She obviously can't be upfront about what she thinks and she has to promote the show regardless of how she feels, but she also wouldn't lie or gaslight her fans. If she too pushes the "friends" angle, you'll know what that means.

@my-mt-heart, which half of the EPs are not misogynistic, ageist assholes?

Why are they pushing the friend thing so hard?? Are they trying to send us a message? We know they're friends but all the official accounts do is emphasize that and shove it in our faces. I guess it's a good way of weeding out the Caryl shippers who are hoping for canon so they don't watch it?

Well, half of the EPs are misogynistic, ageist assholes, so there's that. Seems like AMC is trying to get Richonne fans to watch based on the comments and for Caryl shippers to either "settle" in the spirit of "winning" the impossible war with the Richonne fandom or to just leave now because they need good word of mouth and they won't get that if Caryl fans are criticizing it.

At this point, there's absolutely no way I'm re-subscribing or paying them a dime to gaslight me. Alternative methods work just fine and I'll stay here until S2 is over to rip them apart for ruining Caryl's story and disrespecting Melissa. Abusing your core audience and then trying to build an audience from fans who can't stand Carol is going to fail miserably.

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Describing Michonne as “a black woman holding her own with the main cast” presents her as an outsider with her only trait being her race. You couldn’t even describe her as a mother who found a new life after losing everything because you don’t see her as human. Your fandom is disgusting and racist to it’s sickening core.

We can talk about racism, sure.

The quote is "a black woman holding her own as main cast" since the distinction between 'as' and 'with' changes the meaning of the sentence. She is main cast, she's not an appendage "with" them and it wasn't Michonne I described as a black woman holding her own, it was Danai. It wasn't to belittle her; it was to point out that with institutional racism at work and at a show with a very bad track record of how they treat their black characters/cast members, she's still there and she's a star of the franchise. Look at the lineup for those three spinoffs: it's five white people and Danai. She's the only representation for POC, so yes, she's more than holding her own as a trailblazer.

Hollywood still has a tendency to do tokenism. It was getting better, but with all the strikes last year, white men are closing ranks to assure that they keep the majority of work to themselves. (We're going to see more white men telling more stories by and for other white guys.) TWDU has all-male, all-white people in power of the franchise and I think that's why all the spinoffs are performing badly. They're not instep with their audience and to put it bluntly, TOWL would've done better if Danai had been put in charge instead of the white guy who hired a bunch of failed in-house showrunners to write the other five episodes. (Why wasn't Nana Nkweti given her own episode? She's a talented writer, unlike the rest of Gimple's cronies.)

When Danai was cast as Michonne, the industry was even more white; the power structures ensured that white talent took 90% of the pivotal parts on any show. TWD had Jacqui who was killed off early, without getting much characterization. T-Dog was fleshed out and interesting, but he never got a proper character arc on the show. He got a gruesome death to save a white woman and the inmates at the prison were a homogeneous group of thugs which presented as black—representative of what white people see when they think of prison inmates. Why were those parts all cast with POC save for Axel, which was the biggest role out of them? Sasha lived longer, but her positioning within the greater narrative was deeply problematic and Tyreese was characterized both as someone who didn't contribute to the group's survival: he couldn't kill walkers, and as the black brute who'd go on a rampage and murder a white woman because he couldn't control his temper. That positioning is very, very disturbing and then, he too was killed off before giving his arc any kind of conclusion.

That's the workplace I'm talking about, so yes, the fact that Danai's character survived and she went on to headline one of the spinoffs is a remarkable achievement on her part. She wasn't starting on a level playing field and while she isn't her skin color or her gender, we can't disregard it either because racism and misogyny is very much an active part of that work environment and the world we live in.

Michonne's characterization has been problematic as well because the writers' room for TWD was overwhelmingly one-note white. The concept for her was how white men see black women and she came on the show as a stereotypical "angry black woman," but Danai has imbued the role with so much more than that and elevated her beyond the racist conceits which were tossed her way along the run of the show. I wouldn't describe Michonne as 'a mother who'd lost everything,' because I think that too does the character a disservice. Just like she's more than her race, she's also more than her reproductive abilities, especially given the ugly history in the US of using and controlling black women's bodies.

I think Danai and Michonne are much more than one trait, but the wider system in which both of them exist is deeply racist. Danai doesn't pass the paper bag test (which is still a metric used in entertainment and colorism is a real problem too) unlike Sonequa who's also gone on to great success after leaving the franchise. TWD has had issues lighting their cast members with darker skin tones, which is another problem that we see in other areas, like facial recognition software. The black wigs were bad. TWD should've hired a theatrical master wigmaker who has the expertise to create good wigs for both Danai and Khary, but that comes at a premium they didn't want to spend on their black cast members. Hair and makeup are a challenge because a show needs stylists who know how to work with black hair and skin, and most productions are incredibly lazy about hiring qualified crew. Despite everything being set up (from centuries' worth of racism) to work against her and AMC being a cesspool of inequality, Danai has done amazing. By any metric.

As for fandom, I mostly hover in the periphery, so I can't speak on that with authority, but I have a post where I talk about racism, if you want to get a better sense of what my thinking is? There are a lot of people who say things that are problematic because the educational system doesn't teach "the unsavory bits" of US history, and who don't have much interaction with people of other social classes, races, belief systems, etc. because we still live in a segregated society with zoning districts for schools and housing that are designed to keep the Other out of our neighborhoods. That's not to say ignorance should be a free pass to hurt others, but we have to engage with each other in a non-weaponized manner to affect change and I hope this post can serve a purpose in providing some context to anyone who happens to read it.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to elaborate on my thoughts regarding the institutionalized problems of TWDU.

[that-left-turn]

But they did pull the ratings with towl l+3 ratings matching those of the series finale (3m) while having the biggest streaming numbers thus far. Considering how AMC is back to their Sunday's main show having 300k live viewers and how instead of directly having repeats of ep4 of towl like they're usually doing they put an episode of DD to surf on towl's success, that says a lot. I love both pair of characters so i don't understand this need of bashing or undermining towl (smelly boots really?), just sounds bitter tbh. Danai/Andy and Richonne have been all over sm during the whole run making people who never watched the show subscribe to see them so I'm pretty sure AMC is figuring out a way to keep them around. At the end of the day one show's success benefit the whole twdu, cause more people decided to watch the other spinoffs after towl

This ask is in response to a parenthetical on my post, but I suppose I could explain my logic. First, though, I want to point out that the driving force of my argument was that all the characters are important and there's room for everybody. I wasn't bashing anyone and I have utmost respect for Danai. I said that Rick's fans who turned up for what they expected to be a rollicking action adventure were disappointed.

Now, to the points in the ask. TOWL had relative success. AMC is doing poorly over all and TOWL performing the strongest out of a bad slate doesn't make for objectively good numbers. The spinoffs are part of the same franchise, on the same network and these are not cheap shows to produce, so the studio needs to see a ROI on all of them. AMC doesn't make money unless curious and casual viewers keep watching the shows and they're positioned differently, so the expected viewership doesn't overlap beyond hardcore TWD fans who watch all the shows. That's a very small group.

It's very common ahead of releasing an important show (to the studio/network's bottom line) to buy engagement. The buzz you see about a show is often staged to create the appearance of success. More people will tune in if they think others are watching it. This is industry standard and not specific to TOWL. If a studio is worried that the numbers won't be strong enough to recoup costs, they will spend quite a bit of money to make it look like something is doing well.

A normal studio—AMC doesn't have the best track record for fiscally responsible decision making—doesn't try to find ways to keep expensive and reluctant actors on board a project that doesn't make money. Reluctant actors mean more money to make them sign. FX is always expensive, but genre shows in the scifi/fantasy space are more so. You have the whole spectrum from physical fabrication to digital effects on a TWDU show. It's a large crew, multiple units and it's a mobile production, i.e. one that shoots on location. Big cost. If live numbers can't get above 1M, the studio is definitely not seeing ROI.

That said, I'm happy Rick and Michonne's story arc got its long awaited closure and that Richonne fans enjoyed the show. (I'm not very romantic so the act of smelling someone's well-used footwear might be lost on me as an expression of love, but I do apologize if anyone with a shoe fetish felt disrespected by my turn of phrase. It was not my intention to offend anybody.) I don't feel bitter at all that fans got to watch a show they had anticipated or that they loved it. All TV shows should be satisfying to their audiences and I hope DC and TBOC provide the same level of joy to their fans.

Studios just have to make sure that the target audience is large enough for a healthy profit margin—that was the point I was getting at in my original post. AMC needs to capitalize on all their talent to grow their market share (which is ridiculously small). They can't afford to alienate potential customers by ignoring half their leads: casual viewers won't know who's in the shows and fans, who buy merchandise and are more inclined to open their wallets, will get offended by the snub of their personal favorite(s). That's bad for business and why there shouldn't be any "big 3" (or 4 or 5) posts made by official social media accounts.

All six lead characters are important for TWDU longevity and AMC's financial health. It's the one IP the studio actually owns, (everything else is under license or spaghetti thrown at the wall). The different characters appeal to their own segments of TWDU's potential audiences, so in any post that promotes the whole franchise, AMC and any relevant production companies can't create tiers or rankings if they want to optimize ROI. It looks unprofessional and it's discourteous to the talent, which shouldn't be the basis of any business relationship. After all, these people are the face of the operation, those who make the studio their money.

Thanks for the ask, anon 💝

[that-left-turn]

It’s not really about putting the needs of the fans ahead of their own, though, is it? Valhalla and AMC need us to tune in for TBOC, so they have to keep Caryl/Carol fans on the hook. The first season had nowhere near good enough ratings because they splintered the target demographic. (They did the same thing for TOWL by alienating the viewers who had anticipated Rick's more action oriented return in favor of an epic love story that didn't have enough of a core audience to provide the numbers AMC needed.) Next, they will placate Carylers by releasing some “exciting” photo/vid/leak/promo to string everybody along in the hopes of some elusive payoff.

I don’t understand the official accounts' insistence on rating characters or creating hierarchies in a franchise built on the concept of “found family.” It seems counter to the brand and to growing the audience. You want people to watch for whatever reason happens to resonate with them, right? If that’s domestic violence survivors flourishing in their new lives, great. If it’s a black woman holding her own as main cast, awesome. If someone enjoys Negan’s redemption arc or all the hand amputations, those are badass reasons too. Creating factions in fandom doesn’t produce the desired outcome: getting more viewers.

The tweet should’ve included all the spinoff leads, not just “the big three” or those chosen characters + Carol. Maggie and Negan are in a spinoff too. Let’s respect all the characters, even the ones we may not like and, for the love of smelly cowboy boots, let's have a unified promotional strategy between the official accounts which focuses on elevating the entire franchise. Maybe pay professionals with a background in marketing to run the social media accounts instead of the overworked intern?

The most baffling thing about their push-pull strategy is that, if the goal is to make money, why would anyone choose to turn away paying customers? AMC is making a product for as many someones as possible. These are not fan accounts, so they should service the business as a whole, not reflect the social media managers’ personal tastes.

Here we go again...

I'm going to echo what I said on Twitter about "The Big Three" post on my blog since this where I feel safe speaking up. I'm very sorry I had to direct it at Valhalla who have been Melissa/Carol/Caryl fans' biggest ally on social media up to this point, even using #TheBookofCarol tag to let us know they see her as the main protagonist that she is. I'm also very sorry that as of today, we've reached the two-year mark since the news of the original spinoff's cancelation and this fandom still has to fight for the respect that they and Melissa herself have more than earned. Again, this is why we need a new showrunner with the intuition and authority to change the messaging on the show and on SM, so that Caryl fans not only feel safe, but also eager to watch, pay for, and engage with new material.

I saw that Valhalla acknowledged Carylers' complaints on their post. I wasn't expecting that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any other official account has ever put the needs of the fans over their own need to save face, so I respect and appreciate that. The comments were filling up with voices from other parts of the fandom trying to give Valhalla an out, but it's easy for them to ignore or in some instances mock the issue because their favorite character is represented and they get the satisfaction of a character they hate being left out and her fans being upset about it. It's easy and probably fun for them to accuse us of throwing tantrums, invalidating a very real source of pain for many of us.

There is a long history of fandom bullying and ageism directed at Melissa/Carol/Caryl and their fans to the point of many people, including Melissa herself, having to leave SM. The other factions claim we're a minority, but in reality we're just less active in public spaces because we're made to feel like we don't belong. Caryl fans are very much like the characters in that way and unfortunately other fans and other official accounts take advantage of that.

What happened exactly two years ago has broken our trust and our spirits even more. A lot of us are teetering on the edge of leaving because we're tired of being gaslit and strung along. We're vulnerable and we have triggers. In order to keep engaging with TWD content, we have to feel like its worth it, which means we need to know that the show and everyone affiliated are meeting our needs: that Melissa and Carol are acknowledged for the HUGE impact they've had in the story since S1, not how much they are marketed, and that Caryl is treated like a valid ship.

We need strong leadership for that. Valhalla is a female-led account, so they have the authority to tackle the issues that the actresses and their female fanbases face. A female showrunner would help with that as well. TBOC is fast-approaching, The promotion should focus on hyping the core audience of that show, not alienating them further. We deserve so much better. Melissa deserves so much better. Caryl deserver so much better.

[that-left-turn]

Thank you, Laura and Shalaka, for an interesting episode. I like the somewhat broader discussion and hope you’ll eventually have a few episodes devoted to bigger topics and themes while still tying them to Caryl. Looking forward to your dissection of the Gimple era in the upcoming episodes 🙃

There’s a very long opinion piece on character (Carol and Daryl specifically) and writerly matters that were raised in the podcast episode, as well as my thoughts on the leadership of TBOC behind the cut.

The problem with white male showrunners is that they don’t tend to notice when things get predominantly white or androcentric. They tell the same kind of stories they grew up on. We see a return to that in the French spinoff with a focus on the exoticism of the setting, the cool FX with the new walkers, the POC characters are wallpaper in the background, the almost literal Madonna-Whore complex in how the primary female character is portrayed and our male hero as the lone ranger—attractive, unattainable and the savior of the poor natives incapable of sorting out their problems without intervention.

It’s a classic tale of imperialism and the White Man’s Burden (albeit set in a Western country). We’re fed a hokey narrative about the Second Coming and pseudoscience on zombie physiology and the epidemiology of the virus, marrying faith and science in an uneasy union which brings to mind the eugenics movement as well as TV shows from the 60’s and 70’s. The stuff that shaped the boyhoods of the current PTB of both this spinoff and TWDU at large.

That said, I don’t think a good S3 showrunner has to be a woman. A man of color could bring a very interesting perspective, but I also think that since women have traditionally minded community ties while men provided for their immediate family, a female showrunner might be more aware of the wider implications of the narrative, certainly in the ways in which it relates to misogyny and (the threat of) sexual violence against women.

Personally, I’d like to see a solid external season arc that tells us something about society and our place in it (the way speculative fiction is supposed to) with character arcs which inform on that. Deepen the connection. Make it personal. Caryl have so much to learn about being a couple—being the person their other half deserves—that explicit canon would only add to the larger story being told. The psychological underpinning of dystopian stories is about keeping hope alive and retaining our humanity, but it’s primarily about our ability to love, despite the odds never being in our favor.

It would be nice if the person in charge of the show wasn’t afraid to dig into the emotional side and to let it enrich the external plot. We, the audience, connect with the characters’ predicament when we can see a reflection—be it literal, psychological or just associative—of our own experiences in their circumstances. Humans are empathetic and that’s what draws us to our favorite characters, when we can imagine what it’s like to be in their shoes. If there’s no internal struggle or emotional life, just cool walker orchestras and caustic zombies that burn your skin off, there’s no hook to reel viewers in and no reason for anyone to keep watching.

A more respectful, less jingoistic approach to the international setting would be deeply appreciated as well, wherever S3 happens to be set. I think Caryl canon would also serve a purpose in softening the subliminal(?) message of plonking down two intrepid American heroes (who'll save the day) in a foreign environment, if we can see them having to adapt to their surroundings, rather than having everybody around them bend over backwards to accommodate their status as special sparkly unicorns (aka Chosen Ones). The emotional bond between them would humanize Caryl and turn them into allies rather than saviors. Two additional people in the setting who also struggle against the obstacle that afflicts the native inhabitants, in addition to dealing with what's going on between the two of them.

Daryl’s emotional ambiguity (or the opacity of the text, depending on how you choose to interpret intent vs. visual representation) in S1 did nothing to develop him further as a character, quite the opposite. Nor did it provide any kind of psychological/emotional drive for the plot, one way or the other. Does he want to go home, or stay to fight alongside this new group of people? It’s left to interpretation, which weakens both the emotional impact of the story and the structure of the narrative. If the overarching objective of the protagonist doesn’t compel them to act, there’s no momentum in the plot.

That’s the very basic first tenet of storytelling. The hero has to have a clear goal which they’re striving towards. Their motivation has to be in plain view of the audience, otherwise you end up with a saggy middle and the audience lose interest because they can’t envision where the story is heading. Shipbaiting isn’t a means to retain viewers, or a substitute for character development. It’s just a crutch, when the writers¹ can’t construct a compelling plot with strong character arcs, to have viewers speculate on the protagonist’s ‘amorous intentions’ where there are none.

In the flagship show, we see this lack of care for plot integrity time and again when Carol’s artificially removed (i.e. by flimsy reasoning) from all the major plot points (or pivotal events, if you will) because her presence would inevitably alter the direction in which the fan blows the shit being shoveled at the characters. Case in point, Negan’s lineup would’ve had to play out completely differently if Carol had been on her knees in the dirt alongside the rest of them. Not only would her actions have reverberated throughout the plot arc but all the other characters would have had altered trajectories based on her presence, most notably Rick and Daryl. The former would’ve looked to her for guidance on how to handle the situation and the latter would simply have lost his mind.

If you have to sideline one of your main characters to tell the story, you need to take a long good look at your plot. Likewise, Daryl is a groundbreaking character—so different from the usual white male protagonists—that using him as a revisionist Gary Stu to live out boyhood fantasies, or for a vanity project, is heartbreaking from a fan’s perspective, thus alienating your core audience. We've waited so long for a character like this, to change perceptions of how a white man of lower socioeconomic status can/should be written. From a writer’s POV, it’s infuriating because it’s actively damaging, both to the craft and to progress being made in how we see ourselves and those around us. It's also ruining the story being told.

Based on the marketing strategies used, TBOC will be more of the same of what we saw in S1 with a strong focus on Norman/Daryl as the lead with all the key art and BTS footage emphasizing him, the omission of Melissa’s name in casting calls, the crackdown on any photos of her from set and the minuscule subtitle (which most often is entirely omitted). Yes, Carol will be featured and I’m sure she’ll commit to all the badass gimmicks the writers¹ could imagine (in lieu of plot development), but will the title credits officially reflect this imbalanced status by having Melissa credited in a different frame, after Norman, rather than on the same one, like the other spinoffs do with their leads?

Carol rises above expectations and defies her detractors—many of whom are misogynist and all too willing to box women into their ‘proper place,’ so I would love it if TPTB payed some attention to the importance of not contradicting the message that like Carol, you can overcome, by them treating the actor who plays the character as less-than. Carol is not Daryl’s Girl Friday anymore than he is her sidekick and I think that maybe a female showrunner would be more conscious of the optics... or care more about the impression the show creators choose to make as I think the current behavior is intentional.

What does that mean for S3, though? Will there still be an audience, even if there’s a change in leadership? Depending on whether TBOC further damages Caryl, either by delivering subpar canon or sticking to their guns with the loner hero and his asskicking appendage, there might be nothing left to salvage for a new showrunner. I suspect it would take a season—they’re so short!—to simply repair the damage of the first two and audiences are not patient. We have options. Especially if what sets Daryl and Carol apart from other characters and shows have been retconned out of existence.

I want to believe that Caryl “make the light” and that they “ain’t ashes.” I hope Gimple, Zabel and Nicotero along with Reedus, didn’t snuff out the flame and that Caryl fans get everything they deserve. Including a better showrunner who loves the characters individually and together, and who’ll write strong arcs for both. Someone (whether they’re female or not, white or POC) who can get the show back to its roots of telling resonant stories about the human condition. Excite fans again. Attract new viewers. I want a good, passionate writer in charge. Please, give me that.

_

¹ “The writers” is used here to signify the showrunner, other EPs (both writing and non-writing ones) and studio execs who have story input, not the actual writer(s) as credited onscreen or on the cover of the script. Unless, of course, they’re one and the same.

Nine Lives Two Mics (Caryl Podcast) | New Episode

🎙️Episode #18 - A Deep Dive into Season 3 of TWD (Part 4)🎙️

Join us as we dive into all the #Caryl scenes from 3x11 to 3x16 of #TWD S3.  

Spotify | Youtube

[that-left-turn]

Hedy Lamarr was also ridiculed later in life and made into a punchline as she aged, or rather, because she aged. And, she never got paid for the frequency hopping patent that served as a blueprint for the military in the late 50’s. Her work’s the basis of wifi, GPS and military satellite communications.

Melissa has the eyes of a silver screen siren for sure, but there’s more to her too than meets the eye. All her costars rave about her acting talent and everyone on set mentions how kind and sweet she is. Any interview reveals the care she puts into crafting Carol’s journey and the depth at which she’ll probe the character’s emotional arc, no matter the material she’s given.

AMC has predominantly male and almost exclusively white leadership for all the shows they produce, but I hope Melissa’s voice is heard as an EP for the Book of Carol and that she has real creative power.

Compare pictures of Hedy Lamarr and Melissa when they were in their 20's and 30's:

Hedy Lamarr was an actress in the late 1930's and 40's, during the grueling studio system (which was particularly unkind to the female talent). She was considered to be the most gorgeous woman in the world at that time, people's eyes were just drawn to her. But she was also very intelligent (an inventor) and she tried producing her own movies (again, during the big studio monopoly) who was never recognized for anything beyond her pretty face.

[that-left-turn]

I love this ❤️

You’ve kept everyone in character even though you’re working with quite a different trope; doing “enemies to lovers” and starting with S1 Carol is quite difficult, but I like what you’ve done here. We can see latter season Carol in her but she’s nowhere near the surface. Yet. Merle is both a menacing antagonist and the comic relief, which works so, so well for the tone of your script. I snorted at him wondering if he’d been passed out for about a decade when Merle first saw Daryl return to camp with Carol and Sophia, and the “Daryl, Carol and Sheryl circus act” is the best line 🤗

It’s a great choice to have Carol immediately absolve him when Sophia asks Daryl about all the stuff he has. He'd worry about his supposed lack of honor (and scaring little girls with how uncouth he is) and Carol sees both him and the world for what it is. You’ve used and reworked all the important bits from the quarry, so we’re still getting proper character introductions and you’re not relying on the reader being familiar with the source material. This could stand on its own for someone who’s never seen TWD.

I also like that Sophia didn’t run away and instead hit Daryl with the shotgun at their first meeting. They finally got rid of Ed, she’s still scared but she's not going to let some other man hurt her mom. Sophia was glaring at Daryl after they left the Vatos camp at the start of 201, so that instinct is definitely already in her and you can see the character trajectory of who Sophia will become take slow form here.

It’ll be interesting to see Carol and Merle navigate around each other. The softening of canon Merle was very gradual and Carol is fresh off Ed here, so it'll be an interesting dynamic to explore. I like the pacing, you're letting the arc develop organically and nothing is on the nose—beautifully done.

It’s also very visual. It’s easy to see the master shots and envision what the Dixon camp looks like (or the Ed mound at the side of the Peletier camp). And, also, what would probably be a very tight shot of Merle waking up in his truck is wonderful. The focus on the physical fragility of Sophia, which I assume is foreshadowing something, is tugging on my heartstrings. Love all of that ❤️

I'm very much looking forward to seeing where this goes. Will the group expand to include others? Will Merle disappear for a while like in canon? Will Carol find a red shirt in Daryl’s stash of clothes and when will Merle’s stash of pharmaceuticals reappear (and come in handy)?

It's a great start to the new year to see you posting minisodes again and it's easy to see why your friend loved this. Thanks for sharing it with all of us 🤗😊

Kicking off 2024 with something fun(?) for a change. If you remember my minisode days, you may or may not remember one where I wrote Caryl beginning their relationship as enemies. One dear friend really loved it—why, I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♀️— but a year later, I wrote some additional scenes for her as gifts. She encouraged me to post them publicly, so now here I am doing that. Enjoy the links below along with a sneak peek 🫣

Stupid Bitch Part 1

Stupid Bitch Part 2

Stupid Bitch Part 3

[that-left-turn]

I break a plot while I write a different story, so this teaser snippet is something I’m considering turning into a fic. (Not before Stick Figures is done.)

···

He eyes her speculatively while she's still hunched over the filthy tub. He’s pretty sure it’s not food poisoning, or the flu. Carol doesn’t get sick. In the couple of years that he’s known her, Rick hasn’t seen her catch as much as a sniffle. But, she’s been strange for a while and he doesn’t like where his conclusion leads.

“You okay?” he asks as she wipes the corner of her mouth with the back of her hand.

“Yeah,” she says, straightening up. “It just smells funny here.”

His brow furrows. “Uh-huh.”

The stench of the dead or a fresh kill has never bothered Carol before, but this is the second time Rick’s witnessed her tossing her proverbial cookies in the last few weeks. She looks pale, her skin almost translucent apart from the the bloom of pink on her cheeks, the same color as the roses on her 1980’s mom sweater.

Their secret meetings by the decrepit cabin outside the community are a necessity, but it’s hard for all three of them to get away without drawing attention from either the Alexandrians or their own group and now it looks like their arrangement will get even more complicated. Carol won’t be invisible—she’ll turn into town gossip in a world without soap opera or reality TV.

He wonders how long it will take for Daryl to work out what’s going on and if the other man will kill him when he does. Daryl’s been protective of Carol, at least since the highway en route to wherever they thought they were going, if not before then. That was why Rick waited until Daryl left for his scavenging mission before he exiled Carol from the prison. He would’ve lost the muscle, survival know-how and all the wild game the hunter provided for the community if he hadn’t, because Daryl would’ve left with Carol.

Because Daryl knows right from wrong. Knows you don’t send a woman out on her own in this world, even if you give her some provisions and a couple of gas canisters to make yourself feel like you’re a good guy, that you’re in the right. Bad things happen out there. Especially to women, and Carol’s already been through enough bad shit to last a lifetime. She doesn’t deserve...

“I’m pretty good with babies.” The words are out of his mouth before his brain catches up to what he’s saying. Carol looks startled for about half a second, opening her mouth as if to say something but then just... doesn’t.

Daryl comes into view, approaching from the woods and Rick sighs. Time to focus on the most pressing concern, how to get into the armory. He’ll think about what to do about Carol and how to avoid Daryl’s ire later.

···

So, late S5 dark(ish) babyfic AU...? This is the canon arc where we see Carol lose faith in her own humanity and Daryl reverts back into an outsider—the Gimple era of Caryl estrangement. The dark elements in my fic would come from the emotional arc, not external physical foes.

Rick would be a main character alongside Carol and Daryl because there are so many juicy things from his arc which would have an impact: his guilt over Sophia, his treatment of Lori during her unexpected and unwanted pregnancy, as well as Carol’s banishment and the verbal cruelty Rick heaped on her before sending her off while Carol still saved both his children, at her own cost.

I just don’t think that I’ve earned enough reader trust (yet) for Caryl fans to choose to read this story. A friend suggested that I add a poll because people feel less exposed when it’s anon and I can see her point, so I will despite feeling stupid about “soliciting.” Consider yourselves my focus group? 🙃

Thanks for reading the snippet, whether you choose to engage or not. I appreciate it (hope you enjoyed!) and your potential help in deciding if to plot this fic.