va-ux - Tumblr blog

va-ux · 2 years ago

Text

ok i’ve elected to just Make The Damn Post My Damn Self because i need something to link back to when i inevitably get into arguments about this because i have run-my-mouth disorder. so. slightly-more-generally-applicable companion piece to this post:

“but how can lesbians use he/him pronouns???!?1???”

1: pronouns =/= gender.

one of the arguments i see a lot with this topic is “pronouns = gender, & saying otherwise is transphobic.” i GET this, because pronouns are important & often correlate with gender, but saying pronouns = gender is oversimplified. pronouns are a method of gender presentation - same as clothing, name, & so on & so forth. society genders all of these things, but names & clothing do not prescribe gender. a man, cis or trans, who decides to wear a dress does not become a woman because of the dress; a woman, cis or trans, with a traditionally “masculine” name (ex. bailey, taylor, cameron), does not become a man because of the name. closeted trans people, if they must use names and wear clothing correlated with their agab, are still trans & are still the gender they are.

yes, most binary-gendered people choose clothing & names that “match” their gender, but some might not! think of butch lesbians – they are women, just deliberately gendernonconforming women. pronouns are the same way – the majority of men use “masculine” pronouns, & the majority of women use “feminine” pronouns, but this is because pronouns are a form of gender expression/presentation.

“pronouns =/= gender” does not equate to “i can misgender whoever i want.” pronouns should always be respected.

2: nonbinary people can use whatever pronouns they want.

this follows from #1. yeah, i’d say the majority of nonbinary people use they/them pronouns. but not all nonbinary people dress totally androgynously; some present more feminine or more masculine. the same is true for pronouns. nonbinary people may use she/her or he/him pronouns as part of their presentation - think of jonathan van ness (uses primarily he/him) or rebecca sugar (uses she/her along with they/them). this isn’t even getting into neopronouns; that’s a whole different post. the point is that restricting nonbinary people to they/them pronouns really misses the point of identifying as nonbinary: it’s not a third slot in the gender binary; it’s the general state of existing outside or partially outside of it.

(note: cis people can also use whatever pronouns they want. some cis lesbians use he/him; i’ll get to he/him lesbians a few slots down, but i just want to make it clear that sometimes cis people also use pronouns to express gender nonconformity & that’s their business & the same idea!)

3: lesbians can be nonbinary.

nonbinary =/= totally genderless. sometimes, for some people, it does mean that! but not for everyone. see #2 again, on trying to make nonbinary a strictly defined third gender.

(note: this doesn’t only apply to lesbians. this honestly applies to anyone. i’m just talking about lesbians because that’s My Lane.)

lesbians in particular often have complex relationships with gender, & have for literal decades. as womanhood is to a large degree constructed in contrast to & in relation to manhood, lesbian gender has kind of taken on its own thing since we just… are never in relationships with men, ever, which muddles the whole thing up. (also, womanhood is often a generally uncomfortable and muddled thing because of, you know, misogyny, so there’s that.) thus, a lot of lesbians feel disconnected from “womanhood” as an idea.

a lot of people like to protest nonbinary lesbians by saying “but a lesbian is a GIRL who likes GIRLS!!!1!!” yes. we… we know. the thing is, though, that if any nonbinary person identifies as a lesbian, they are probably close enough to womanhood to count as a wlw! the term “lesbian” automatically brings “women who love women” to people’s minds. if a nonbinary person is uncomfortable associating with womanhood at all, literally why would they use that term. it stands to reason that the people who DO use that term feel at least a tangential connection there.

a lot of lesbians define their gender solely as “lesbian.” in my own experience, the ONLY connection i feel toward womanhood is liking girls in a gay way. the attraction i feel toward women is gay attraction - i am attracted to women who like women. i do not want to date a straight woman who sees me as a man. if i didn’t like women, i wouldn’t have this connection & would probably identify otherwise - but i do like women & as it is that’s pretty much… what my gender is. (this is why people may say their gender is “butch” or “femme” – it’s the same idea of a gender defined by attraction & the way you relate to women!)

for some people, nonbinary does mean totally genderless. for others, it just means anything that isn’t strictly binary. hence why some lesbians may consider themselves nonbinary - not entirely woman, but woman enough to be a lesbian. an example in layman’s terms: you know how “berry” lacroix tastes like it maybe saw a berry, once, from a distance? my gender is lacroix and the flavor is woman.

4: lesbians can thus use whatever pronouns they want.

i think this one is like… a geometry proof. #2 (nonbinary people can use any pronouns) + #3 (lesbians can be nonbinary) makes this one pretty simple. while the rest of this post will be about he/him lesbians, because that’s what i see the most “discourse” about, lesbians can use she/her or they/them or he/him or it/its or xe/xem or Any Other Pronouns They Want. Any.

5: “but why would a lesbian ever want to use he/him pronouns?”

people who ask this are usually asking one of these more specific questions:

“but if you use he/him, aren’t you a man?” see #1.

“but why would lesbians want to use masculine pronouns when lesbianism is about women?” i don’t know. why do butch lesbians dress masculinely? why do they often use masculine names or nicknames? it’s about the deliberate gender nonconformity, something that has been central to lesbian communities for literal decades. pronouns are another form of presentation (see #1); using pronouns other than she/her is another form of nonconformity.

“masculine clothing and names i get – but why pronouns? that feels a little much.” i do get this! i used to feel the same way! but the criteria for being a lesbian is like… 1) not a man 2) a woman or at least sort of connected to being a woman (see #3) (yes, this includes trans lesbians, who are not men) 3) attracted to women and not men. that’s the criteria. that’s all.

& i would like to think that some of you have the best intentions. but i would really, really caution you away from trying to disqualify people from iding as lesbians because of the pronouns they use. saying “well, clearly lesbians can wear masculine clothes and have masculine names, but the pronouns are a step too far” doesn’t make any sense – where do you draw the line? at what point are you trying to define when someone is “too masculine to be a lesbian?” and why do you feel the need to do that?

this goes double for nonlesbians. i’ll repeat: really, honestly ask yourself why you feel the need to do that.

(note: butch lesbians aren’t the only lesbians who are gender nonconforming and they aren’t the only ones who use he/him pronouns! but i’ve found this is very common among butches, more so than other lesbians, + it’s another space where i can speak from personal experience.)

6: “wait but this feels kind of TERFy. are you saying trans men can be lesbians?”

oh no. oh god no. lesbians = not men. trans men = men. (& trans women = trans women, & TERFS can choke.)

i think there is a misconception among some trans men (especially transmedicalists) that he/him lesbians are trying to tell trans men they aren’t “real men” & thus undermining their identities. the idea is that we’re saying, “hey, look, lesbians can use whatever pronouns we want! thus, you don’t need to transition :) you can use he pronouns and still be a gay woman :)” to which the obvious response is “i’m not a woman and this is transphobic.”

but i… honestly truly have never seen a he/him lesbian say that. we aren’t the same! even if we use the same pronouns, even if we may take some of the same steps to feel gender euphoria (ex. wearing more masculine clothing, binding/going on T for afab lesbians), we are not the same! trans men = men. men cannot be lesbians. he/him lesbians = people who are not men, but have a complicated relationship to womanhood. thus:

he/him lesbians =/= trans men.

there is no correlation.

(note: i lied. there is one correlation. the correlation is friends and allies. trans men i’m on your team and i hope you’re having a good day. my right to exist is not mutually exclusive with yours; we’re fighting similar battles.)

7. “okay, i guess, but i still don’t really get it?”

that’s okay!! gender is confusing as shit (plus this was a long & slightly repetitive post, because i wanted to make sure i covered all my bases). here are some things you can do if you still don’t understand:

a) talk to more he/him lesbians! maybe my explanation doesn’t really do it for you, but someone else’s will! (if you’re interested in lesbian history, i can recommend stone butch blues, which can be downloaded as a PDF from leslie feinberg’s website. the main character’s relationship to gender isn’t quite the same as the one explained in this post – jess has to use he/him & pass as male to stay safe – but it’s still a good read that gets into the complexity of lesbian gender. the lesbian mc participates in butch/femme culture, gets top surgery, & later has a relationship with a trans woman – so, basically, corroborating what i’ve said about how lesbians can do all of these things & still be lesbians.)

b) if you don’t have the time/energy/desire to talk to more he/him lesbians, that’s fine! just respect us. respect our pronouns. don’t misgender us; don’t call us men or say we aren’t lesbians. you don’t have to get it to accept us.

c) here’s a secret. if you still don’t understand, but you are no longer seeking help understanding & you’ve decided to just vibe and respect us without totally Getting It - that is totally fine. you don’t need to tell us this :) saying “hey, i don’t really get it, could you help?” is one thing. saying “hey, i still don’t get it. not asking for help, just letting you know” is uh. is like. um. okay thanks for informing me?? i guess ??

i understand that not everyone will Get It. but if you’re using my pronouns & respecting my identity, i do not need to hear that you don’t actually get it because my gender is super complicated. it is a little, er, how you say, impolite. (again - not the same as asking for help! i’m totally open to answer any questions anyone has.)

_______________________________________________________________________

source: i am a he/him lesbian.

you are allowed & politely encouraged to reblog this post.

if anyone would like to add to this post – particularly other lesbians and/or trans women (as i’m tme and don’t want to overstep) – feel free!

if anyone would like to ask me to elaborate on something, feel free to ask in the reblogs, replies, or in my inbox/dms!

if anyone would like to clown on this post and say some lesbophobic or transphobic bullshit without reading what i wrote, please block me, log off, & go trip over something <3

799 notes · View notes