ven0moir

[ven0moir]

i wonder if bychance people are the in-betweens

the fact that most milevens are GA members and most bylers are obsessive analyzers should quite literally tell us everything we need to know

[ven0moir]

my dream is to one day play on a DnD campaign made by the Duffer brothers or smth bc wow if Byler's actually endgame, AND Bychance happens on top of that, these dudes are creative AF

[ven0moir]

in anons defense, this is very old ( my bad, i should've mentioned that ) & they did say their comment abt the bychance community was off-topic, but ....

Also, the bychance “fandom” being “mean & nasty” made me cackle. 😭

NO FR. there was ONE person who you could argue was aggressive, ( but this person was like 'idc about bychance'--meaning they were defending theorizing in and of itself, not bychance bc "they ship it"

and there was ONE death threat that was not okay, but we can't confirm was a bychance shipper. granted, it could've been, but we just don't know.

literally any other post of bychance "shippers" were just defending themselves from bylers saying stuff like "people who actually think bychance is going to happen make us bylers look bad, bychance people are delusional, sorry" etc

i didn't say anything then bc i understood there WAS some misunderstanding ( like bylers thinking what was being said was that bychance was endgame for some reason ), but ...

If there are bychance shipper posts attacking Bylers I have seen a whooping total of ZERO of them ( so if anyone has screenshots please do send them to me ) but as far as I know,

this "nasty bychance fandom" ✨doesn't exist✨

and it NEVER did.

Found ur post asking why we personally don't like bychance, here's my view on it, I talk a lot

I really, really don't think bychance is happening, and if it does, it's really bad writing

First thing first, last season will be packed with stuff, byler, as much as I love it, won't be exactly front and center compared to the supernatural stuff. There will be a lot happening, and a lot of groups getting together

I highly doubt there's time for a love triangle (square, technically, if Mike and El still didn't break up), it would take away from Mike and Will developing as a couple, but also other important characters

Second thing second, we don't need Chance to see Byler love each other, that has been clear since s1. Mike has been theorized as gay since the first episode, and in S4 it only canonized how many feelings they have for each other, the season is full of hints and parallels. Most Bylers don't need to make theories to what will happen in s5 to prove they could be real, just track what happened in former seasons to convince others

This obstacle y'all are looking for is Eleven, Eleven is already the love triangle, she's already part of the jealously plot

Third, I personally don't need to see Mike jealous over Will to see that he's in love, that has been clear since always

Fourth, Will gaining a love interest would leave a bad taste in my mouth, and in many others too. He's been in love since he was a kid, and now suddenly, he's falling for another guy? That we don't even know? Will is obsessed with Mike, people are already really weird about Byler, we shouldn't give more reasons for them to be homophobic towards them. It wouldn't help drive the plot as much as y'all think it would, it would make people say "Why should Will be with Mike?!?!?! He had Chance!!! Mileven should have stayed together!!!!!!"

Fifth, I'll compare crushes and relationships since the start

Nancy was dating Steve > Had chemistry with Jonathan > Started dating Jonathan > Starting having chemistry with Steve again

Mike had feelings for El > Started dating El

Lucas had feelings for Max > Started dating Max

Dustin had feelings for Max > Got over them the same season > Started dating Suzy > Suzy appeared more times because there still had seasons ahead of S3, making her look less spendable

Joyce and Hopper had chemistry > Couldn't work because of Hoppers baggage > Joyce got with Bob > Bob died > Joyce and Hopper had chemistry > Started dating (I think the Bob plot and romance only worked well because he wasn't a tool to make Jopper get closer, but a tool to move the supernatural plot forward with Will)

Will has feelings for Mike > Chance appears for jealousy reason > Byler gets together ??

???????????

Sixth, the series is ending, we will never see Chance again, they shouldn't be introducing new characters for personal arcs, only for the main plot. Suzy worked because she was in S4, and will probably be again in s5. Will Chance get a chance to be a character (hehe)? To drive anything forward that couldn't be done in other ways? Chance is just.. some guy that appeared, he has as much character as Mikhail, and the Mikhail plot would still be funnier because it sounds like Michael a bit

Seventh, I don't know how to count in English actually because it's not my mother language, like I said El is there to be the love triangle and the jealous stuff going on with Will (although, I personally believe that Will is jealous of her PERIOD, because of the powers, because of Mike, because of how strong she is emotionally, because she took his place while he was in the UD, etc etc), Mike is already a jealous possessive bastard

Season 1, Mike gets jealous over the notion of Lucas being Wills best friend. He also fights much harder than everyone else to find him

Season 2, Mike gets jealous and possessive of the boys trying to help Will in his panic attack. He also looked jealous in the winter ball

Season 3, I don't personally remember any jealousy, but he would rather ride in the rain to say sorry to Will than to his girlfriend so, yk

Season 4, he's jealous of this... IMAGINARY!!! girl that El talked about in her letters, that Will could MAYBE have a crush on, gets super awkward about it and makes things worse

Mike is jealous of everyone and everything with Will, I think it would be easier to see Will getting closer to the rest of the party because lord knows he needs it (and the series needs it too, Will is only ever with Mike or Jonathan, it gets boring, I want to see more facets of him with his friends of years), and then Mike going crazy over it. Than to introduce a new guy, do a jealousy plot, discard him, and just make the cast bigger for no reason

Last, I'm sorry

It just sounds like fanfiction

This fandom has a lot of theories, a lot of them sound like canon, a lot of them sound like *good* fanfiction that I would love to see written, and this one sounds like bad fanfiction. Wattpad/TikTok fanfiction made by a 14yo, I'm sorry to be mean about it, I think it's fun to make comics and jokes but it's not enough for me to take it seriously

When Stranger Things do things like fanfiction would, it's BAD, really bad. Season 3 SUCKS, it's fun at times, but when it comes to plot and some relationships (Manly Jopper and a bit of Jancy), it SUCKS ASS. They admitted S3 was just a means to an end, a sandbox for the writers to play with, and it's going down in history as the worst and less fitting season of the bunch. It has colors to keep your eyes on it, but almost no substance

I don't want S5 to be that, specially something dear to me like Byler

That's alll, I think I can think of more but my hands hurt, it's cold and I have fibromyalgia. I'm very sorry if anything here sounds mean, I just really like to give my opinion on things

Bahbye 🐝

Out of topic: I also don't like it because most of the fandom is mean and nasty, this is my first time seeing people take bychance seriously in months, I only noticed it because an old post of mine started getting likes, I go in the tags and there's people getting death threats, bychancers calling others stupid and blind and acting like they are god and can see into the future

hi anon! the question wasn't why you guys didn't like bychance, it was why you didn't think it would happen in the show. But we can still work with this!

please stand by, I'm currently cooking <3 TY FOR YOUR OPINION THO

[ven0moir]

For Science, which of these Bychance posts would you like to see next?

#1. Tackling anti-bychance arguments.

A response to this anon with some counter-arguments

#2. BYCHANCE = WiseOne & Mileven ( My own anti-bychance argument )

A writing exercise inspired by these awesome posts:

Bychance & Vampire Temptation by @cypherheartnokey & @offsidetracked

Robin as the 'older person' Mike thinks Will is dating by @threemanoperation

Will at the center of a love triangle by @eeriesilkworm

Vampire coding = El/Henry & Will/Henry by anon

a fun pattern @diornies pointed out to me

I basically do my best to acknowledge BUT reinterpret the Bychance clues and hints we've found.

#3. More Bychance Math ( 1 + 4 = 5 )

Some more Weird Mathy patterns I noticed based off of that one post about how S5 was a combination of S1 and S4 on steroids. Very specific. Inspired by @anotherjlynn

#4. More potential evidence of 'BYCHANCE = MARKETING' I found

This one has to do with the Trojan War and it's ... a bit insane and probably a reach but ... its there ����

#5. More Bychance Hints ( PAYDAY )

Another potential Mike vs Chance hint that took me down a rabbit hole 💀

[ven0moir]

interview with the vampire most likely has some sort of inspo for henry/vecna and either el or will. I lean towards it being Will. Henry is clearly the dark presence and he’s queer coded, and also compared to a vampire (nosferatu) in an excellent analysis by another user on this app (I think heroesbyler did it? compared henry and will to a nosferatu film and it fits )

ty for this anon!! yeah I remember when I first saw interview with the vampire in the S4 inspo board that was my early assumption too!

[ven0moir]

Found ur post asking why we personally don't like bychance, here's my view on it, I talk a lot

I really, really don't think bychance is happening, and if it does, it's really bad writing

First thing first, last season will be packed with stuff, byler, as much as I love it, won't be exactly front and center compared to the supernatural stuff. There will be a lot happening, and a lot of groups getting together

I highly doubt there's time for a love triangle (square, technically, if Mike and El still didn't break up), it would take away from Mike and Will developing as a couple, but also other important characters

Second thing second, we don't need Chance to see Byler love each other, that has been clear since s1. Mike has been theorized as gay since the first episode, and in S4 it only canonized how many feelings they have for each other, the season is full of hints and parallels. Most Bylers don't need to make theories to what will happen in s5 to prove they could be real, just track what happened in former seasons to convince others

This obstacle y'all are looking for is Eleven, Eleven is already the love triangle, she's already part of the jealously plot

Third, I personally don't need to see Mike jealous over Will to see that he's in love, that has been clear since always

Fourth, Will gaining a love interest would leave a bad taste in my mouth, and in many others too. He's been in love since he was a kid, and now suddenly, he's falling for another guy? That we don't even know? Will is obsessed with Mike, people are already really weird about Byler, we shouldn't give more reasons for them to be homophobic towards them. It wouldn't help drive the plot as much as y'all think it would, it would make people say "Why should Will be with Mike?!?!?! He had Chance!!! Mileven should have stayed together!!!!!!"

Fifth, I'll compare crushes and relationships since the start

Nancy was dating Steve > Had chemistry with Jonathan > Started dating Jonathan > Starting having chemistry with Steve again

Mike had feelings for El > Started dating El

Lucas had feelings for Max > Started dating Max

Dustin had feelings for Max > Got over them the same season > Started dating Suzy > Suzy appeared more times because there still had seasons ahead of S3, making her look less spendable

Joyce and Hopper had chemistry > Couldn't work because of Hoppers baggage > Joyce got with Bob > Bob died > Joyce and Hopper had chemistry > Started dating (I think the Bob plot and romance only worked well because he wasn't a tool to make Jopper get closer, but a tool to move the supernatural plot forward with Will)

Will has feelings for Mike > Chance appears for jealousy reason > Byler gets together ??

???????????

Sixth, the series is ending, we will never see Chance again, they shouldn't be introducing new characters for personal arcs, only for the main plot. Suzy worked because she was in S4, and will probably be again in s5. Will Chance get a chance to be a character (hehe)? To drive anything forward that couldn't be done in other ways? Chance is just.. some guy that appeared, he has as much character as Mikhail, and the Mikhail plot would still be funnier because it sounds like Michael a bit

Seventh, I don't know how to count in English actually because it's not my mother language, like I said El is there to be the love triangle and the jealous stuff going on with Will (although, I personally believe that Will is jealous of her PERIOD, because of the powers, because of Mike, because of how strong she is emotionally, because she took his place while he was in the UD, etc etc), Mike is already a jealous possessive bastard

Season 1, Mike gets jealous over the notion of Lucas being Wills best friend. He also fights much harder than everyone else to find him

Season 2, Mike gets jealous and possessive of the boys trying to help Will in his panic attack. He also looked jealous in the winter ball

Season 3, I don't personally remember any jealousy, but he would rather ride in the rain to say sorry to Will than to his girlfriend so, yk

Season 4, he's jealous of this... IMAGINARY!!! girl that El talked about in her letters, that Will could MAYBE have a crush on, gets super awkward about it and makes things worse

Mike is jealous of everyone and everything with Will, I think it would be easier to see Will getting closer to the rest of the party because lord knows he needs it (and the series needs it too, Will is only ever with Mike or Jonathan, it gets boring, I want to see more facets of him with his friends of years), and then Mike going crazy over it. Than to introduce a new guy, do a jealousy plot, discard him, and just make the cast bigger for no reason

Last, I'm sorry

It just sounds like fanfiction

This fandom has a lot of theories, a lot of them sound like canon, a lot of them sound like *good* fanfiction that I would love to see written, and this one sounds like bad fanfiction. Wattpad/TikTok fanfiction made by a 14yo, I'm sorry to be mean about it, I think it's fun to make comics and jokes but it's not enough for me to take it seriously

When Stranger Things do things like fanfiction would, it's BAD, really bad. Season 3 SUCKS, it's fun at times, but when it comes to plot and some relationships (Manly Jopper and a bit of Jancy), it SUCKS ASS. They admitted S3 was just a means to an end, a sandbox for the writers to play with, and it's going down in history as the worst and less fitting season of the bunch. It has colors to keep your eyes on it, but almost no substance

I don't want S5 to be that, specially something dear to me like Byler

That's alll, I think I can think of more but my hands hurt, it's cold and I have fibromyalgia. I'm very sorry if anything here sounds mean, I just really like to give my opinion on things

Bahbye 🐝

Out of topic: I also don't like it because most of the fandom is mean and nasty, this is my first time seeing people take bychance seriously in months, I only noticed it because an old post of mine started getting likes, I go in the tags and there's people getting death threats, bychancers calling others stupid and blind and acting like they are god and can see into the future

hi anon! the question wasn't why you guys didn't like bychance, it was why you didn't think it would happen in the show. But we can still work with this!

please stand by, I'm currently cooking <3 TY FOR YOUR OPINION THO

[ven0moir]

omg could you share it here? I'd love to see their arguments

just came across a slideshow on TikTok that’s supposedly debunking different proofs Bylers use and i IMMEDIATELY scrolled past it rather than reading it because im so high on Byler confidence that i refuse to let any Mileven bring me down. i did, however, scroll back up and save it to a folder where, after ST ends and assuming Byler is endgame, i’ll go back and actually read what they “debunked” in order to feel great abt myself

[ven0moir]

There's a real possibility we get a Will Byers centric love triangle in ST5

We know the Duffers love a good love triangle.

So much so, they've given us one (or several) in every season of Stranger Things thus far—and I don’t think they’ll break that streak in Season 5.

One thing I’ve noticed is that while some love triangles stretch across multiple seasons (like Steve/Nancy/Jonathan), the writers also introduce at least one new triangle each season.

Here’s a quick breakdown:

S1: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan S2: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan + Joyce / Hopper / Bob + Lucas / Dustin / Max S3: Robin / Steve / Tammy + Joyce / Hopper / Alexei + Joyce / Hopper / Mr Clarke S4: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan + Mike / El / Will + Robin / Vickie / Vickie's ex-boyfriend S5: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan (likely resolved) + Mike / El / Will (will come to a head) + ???

Sometimes they’re played straight, but the writers also love to openly mock the love triangle trope, too—especially in Season 3:

For example, Hopper gets irrationally jealous over Joyce talking to Mr Clarke and even Alexei—prompting Joyce’s sarcastic line about how every man she talks to must be her boyfriend. And of course, there's Steve wrongly assuming Robin has a crush on him, then confessing to her, only to find out she actually liked Tammy Thompson.

Basically, there’s no one way the writers use this trope. They clearly enjoy it—but more importantly, they enjoy subverting it.

So, call me delusional but I think it's likely that we could be getting another Will Byers love triangle in Season 5:

He's the main character of the season and his arc will (partially), revolve around his "coming of age" and acceptance of his sexuality, after all.

Will has consistently been portrayed as someone who is considered attractive or desirable in-universe. In every season except Season 3, a girl shows interest in him despite his nerdiness and perceived queerness.

And now, it looks like the Duffer Brothers are visually rebranding him as a romantic lead:

His new hair and costume design feels both heroic and boyish. The flannel—once a staple of his wardrobe and a symbol of his innocence—is slowly being phased out, suggesting a gradual loss of that innocence. However, he’s still buttoned up. That tells me Will is stepping into his manhood (and by extension, his sexuality), but he's still holding something back. He's going to need to be pushed out of his comfort zone; both physically and emotionally.

Even narratively, there are established links which hint at a possible non-Mike love interest:

When we look back at Will’s comment about not falling in love, we often read it as foreshadowing his feelings for Mike—or hinting that he already is in love with him. But I also interpret it as something more: Will doesn’t believe he will ever inspire love (or romantic attraction). He sees himself as undesirable.

Think about the four original members of the Party. Yes, they’re all considered uncool nerds to some degree—yet three of them are affirmed through romantic connection: Lucas has Max. Dustin has Suzie. Mike has El. They each receive validation and the feeling of being wanted.

Will does not.

And yet, the writers have made a consistent effort to show us that Will is considered attractive—despite his belief that he isn’t, and despite the lack of romantic validation he receives. That creates a real disconnect. A kind of cognitive dissonance.

Having Will repeatedly receive attention from girls—only to reject them or appear disinterested—was an effective way to subtly hint at his queerness. But it’s happened so many times now, that there needs to be a payoff.

What is the long-term point of making the canonically gay kid, who already believes he’s undesirable, only receive interest from women?

Er, there isn’t one.

It makes sense, then, to give Will the opportunity to experience mutual same-sex attraction with someone who isn't Mike.

Because Will's arc about accepting his sexuality doesn't just have to culminate in the realization that Mike loves him too (as sweet as that is).

It should culminate with the knowledge that queerness is valid, that he is considered desirable and worthy of romantic interest, and that he isn't alone in experiencing queerness.

Additionally, as mentioned above, Will is already perceived as queer—he’s been bullied for it his entire life, despite never explicitly coming out. Hawkins is a small town where word travels fast. So if there is another young gay guy in town, chances are… they’ve already heard of “Zombie Boy” Will Byers.

He'd certainly be on their radar: he’s good-looking, he’s mysterious, and he’s still closeted, which means he’d likely be discreet.

And let’s not forget where Will was emotionally at the end of Season 4, especially regarding his feelings for Mike:

He’s starting from ground zero in Season 5. He has zero hope that Mike feels the same way, and he’s likely going to be making zero moves.

In fact, most Byler theorists agree—it makes sense that Mike will have to be the initiator in Season 5. Will is just too emotionally shut down to make the first move.

But… wait a minute.

If this season is supposed to be about Will coming into his own as a young gay man—about self-acceptance, confidence, and owning his identity—how does that make sense if Mike is the one initiating everything?!

Well… maybe Mike needs to make the first move when it comes to Byler. But that doesn’t mean Will has to stay passive the whole season.

It’s possible that Will could gain some much-needed confidence—maybe even a bit of romantic “practice”—by taking a more active role with someone else first.

Giving Will a (temporary) new love interest would also level-out the playing field between himself and Mike:

There's a real sense of karmic justice and ironic foreshadowing in Stranger Things.

Will's jealousy of Mike and El's relationship has been hinted at for two seasons now—and he even complained that Mike only called a couple times while El had a "book of letters" from him.

What’s interesting is that even after Mike takes accountability for their argument and they make up, that specific comment—about the phone calls and letters—is never addressed. It lingers.

That’s why I think we could see a similar conversation (or even a full-blown argument) between Mike and Will in Season 5. But this time, Will might be the one receiving phone calls or letters—from someone else.

And let’s not forget: it’s possible that the Byers are temporarily staying with the Wheelers in Season 5. If Will has a secret admirer, and he’s trying to keep it quiet, Mike is going to find out. (Excellent way to manufacture drama).

I also feel compelled to reiterate that the Duffers have shown time and time again: they can handle love triangles in many different ways.

They can play it for comedy. They can make it completely one-sided or delusional—like Mike projecting his own jealousy, much like Hopper did with Joyce in Season 3. A love triangle doesn’t have to be serious or long-lasting. It could span multiple episodes, or just one. It could involve a kiss—or zero physical contact at all.

And it doesn’t have to disrupt a Byler endgame—in fact, quite the opposite:

Seeing Will Byers receive romantic attention from another male character would serve as a reminder to the audience that Will is desirable and that he has options—this increases the stakes for Mike.

The GA will start wondering if this is really Will's endgame, and if he is truly ready to get over Mike. The GA, especially those who never shipped Byler before, may find themselves unexpectedly invested. They might even feel disappointed or sad at the thought of Will "moving on."

It also creates space for the writers to show us jealous Mike. Just as we've seen jealous, longing Will, a temporary love triangle allows us to explore Mike’s feelings through that same lens of romantic insecurity.

This brings the possibility of Byler to the forefront of the GA's subconscious. At the same time, it invites them to root for Mike, and therefore Byler.

[ven0moir]

okay, my anti-bychance argument is a bit meta, because I like the idea of it on the show, but doubt its happening.

The actor has not had any big role in his past work in TV, he's the lead in short films and theatre prods but has not really played a major character in TV or Film. I've seen a few of them, and I dont think that he's bad, but in the context of bychance, the arc has so much emotional weight and I doubt they're gonna entrust that to someone who isn't as experienced as the rest of the cast. Like Vickie's actress has an insane resume, everyone was excited to see her, and yet her character barely did anything in S4.

Unless that was intentional to remove suspicion, and they saw something in him during auditions?

It seems that the jocks are going to take a much larger role next season, at least, thats what it seems with Andy. And even though they took a chance with a cast of new faces in S1, since then, big recurring roles have big names attached. Jason is a significant outlier tho, but even then, he still has slightly better resume that Chance.

Let me know your counter point to this!

omg ty for bringing this one up, anon! bc yeah the whole casting thing is one of my "blind spots" ( i have 0 clue on how that all works )

so you might very well be right! in fact, i'll assume you are.

but in the off-chance we ARE right about them HINTING at bychance, id say you're actually on the money:

they decided to take a risk with hunter bc casting a well known actor to just be a background character ...? yeah, fans would've picked up on that on a larger scale / be more suspicious of bychance.

there was that rumor abt noah consulting an acting coach for a scene, so maybe hunter could have consulted one too for certain scenes? who knows! i think it all boils down to strategy and preparation

like you said, Jason's actor WAS also not so well known ( tho more than hunter ) and he played a very important role in s4--this could be indication of them taking risks on smaller / not so well known actors for important roles

but yeah!! tbh this is one of those things that could go either way so we have no way of knowing, which keeps that spicy doubt alive hoho

[ven0moir]

Oh my god is it possible they were hinting at the vecna plot since S1?!?!?!?!?!? ST not beating the "it was planned from the start" allegations

i am LIVING

Being “crazy”, pastors and preachers, Pennhurst, aunts, and powers.

(credits to @aemiron-main)

Let’s see what we have.

Becky has a “crazy” aunt.

Joyce has a “crazy” aunt. (Credits to @pinkeoni for finding it)

Becky’s aunt says the house is “haunted” (it’s not, it’s simply that Terry has powers)

Victor believes the house is inhabited by a demon (it’s not, it’s simply that Henry has powers)

Lonnie doesn’t believe Joyce, and mentions a preacher somehow helping her if she talks to him (because Joyce saw Will in the wall)

None of them known Terry/Henry has powers

Everyone thinks Joyce is crazy (crazy people go to Pennhurst)

Pennhurst has been mentioned before in s1 (so it’s important). It’s mentioned in relation to El, who has powers and isn’t crazy.

Victor is in Pennhurst because he’s “crazy”.

Lonnie tells Joyce to go talk to a pastor (which relates to Will. Joyce sees Will in the wall, which is “crazy”, so she should find someone to talk to, like a pastor)

The creels talked with a preacher and performed an exorcism (which relates to Henry, since he was the “demon” they wanted to get rid of with the preacher)

Joyce and Victor are paralleled and neither are believed nor taken seriously

Victor has a son with powers

Joyce has a…

[ven0moir]

Anti-Bychance arguments

working on this rn i cant wait to show you guys @offsidetracked @cypherheartnokey @anotherjlynn i'd actually LOVE your guys input aaa

also if there's anyone out there who has any anti-bychance arguments that doesn't include these, I'd LOVE to know btw:

There's no time for it

Will wouldn't do that / goes against everything the Duffers have planned for him

[ven0moir]

omg TY FOR MAKING THIS!!! I genuinely think you're onto something here! Here are some of my thoughts:

BYCHANCE CRITICISM #1: THERE'S NO TIME I would now like to take the time and address the most common criticisms of ByChance. 1. The show doesn't have the time. False. Easy solution. You write the others into the equation. Every season follows the same formula. They start in separate groups, and they finish in 1 big group. Flip it, imo they will start in 1 big group, and by the end, you will have 5 Heroes standing alone to save the world." Will lies about his whereabouts. For his and Chance's safety. The writers wrote Mileven in season 3 the same way. Wow, how very gay of Mike.

YES, THIS!!! And it's also how Jancy was introduced in S3 too: they were being sneaky/secretive, which is to be expected tbh.

fun fact: We saw Will first, then Jancy intro scene, then Will again--like Will sandwiched Jancy.

Do you think this could foreshadow how we'll be intro'ed to S5 Will? ... yikes.

The thing about Jancy and Mileven, though, is that they WERE built in the previous seasons, unlike Bychance who are complete strangers. What do you think?

BYCHANCE & VECNA { 22 + 1 amirite } Venca's advantage is Will being gay in an Homophobic world. Will is going to be villainize for probably, several episodes. Get on board. Is he evil? No, he is just gay and closeted.

YUP! And how will they depict this, likely? 'Vecna's advantage is Will having a BOYFRIEND in a homophobic world'

BYCHANCE AGE GAP 3. Chance is old. Do you know that? Me either. Here is an uncomfortable gay history lesson. Gay teenagers used to date older gay men all the time. It was about lack of opportunities to be with another man in a safe manner. These were usually not unhappy experiences. We have come so far. It is not easy but a part of history, but history is usually not easy to learn. However I don't think Chance will be older. Probably same year maybe senior?

This is so true and historically accurate--I remember cypher mentioned this to me in DMs. As far as I know, the only reason people think Chance is a senior is bc of what it says about him in the wiki, but the show never canonized it.

I do think if the show goes this route, they'll depict it with care and not for 'shock value', as some people seem to believe? I also mentioned before that there's precedent for this ...

Joyce + Lonnie and Billy + Karen, so it's not like the show hasn't done that uncomfortable age gap before, as much as we don't like it

CHANCE = MIKE'S SELF INSERT I think Chance is Mike. The idealized version of himself anyway. He is popular. He is a heart throb, and he may be King of Hawkins High when we jump into the season? Chance is athletic. Basically, everything Mike secretly desires and lies about now wanting. Let's look to a childhood crush of mine in how I think Mike could be Chance. Chance=Atreyu Mike=Bastian. Atreyu allows Bastian to live his dreams and fantasies while staying safe in the real world. Chance would allow Mike to be with Will while staying safe in the real world.

OHHH MY GODD YESSS!! Cypher and myself had a similar idea! re: Chance being a manifestation of Mike's subconscious or something like this, and this fits SO WELL with what we perceive to be a crucial part of Mike's arc.

I love the comparison to Atreyu and Bastian too, it's so good bc yeah I never even thought about Atreyu very well representing a part of Bastian's psyche that was more action-driven. "I WISH I was like him" kinda thing.

"You couldn't even dance with me, Mike. Sometimes, I wish I had never even met you."

oh my god! I've had similar thoughts to this, but bc of birthdaygate, and what happened during S1, I get the feeling it was MIKE who wished Will never existed at some point.

I see this as a possibility bc one of the movies in the inspiration board is Batman Begins, and we get this idea there ( which I think would've inspired the Duffers ) about how sometimes grief is so strong that you wished the person you loved hadn't ever existed.

So I think Mike, in his grief, WISHED Will didn't exist / he'd never met him when they found his body in the quarry and he thought for sure he was dead the whole night.

Imagine Vecna revealing that to Will ... without offering the full context ... and then Mike having to clarify .... oof ...

Anyway I'm looking forward to read your future posts!

ByChance let's talk, Babe.

How I think Will having a side piece is going to rewrite the universe.

Half theory half head cannon.

Dark. Sorry, it is the 80s.

Potential spoilers.

Definitely will edit this again in the future. I am missing parts.

How to begin. ST is hard to theorize because it is like water. A single decision from any 1 character causes a ripple effect. How far those ripples go, your guess is as good as mine. But I love guessing, so let's guess some ripples.

What do we know without having to guess at characters' motivations?

We know the UD is bleeding into Hawkins.

If I attach characters' motivations to that 1 fact, I can infer that will mean our favorite characters, regardless of who that is, are going to be acting upside down from how we the fans know them.

Which is so perfect for a coming of age story.

It also means the writers' room can stretch these characters in whatever way they see fit.

If you have read any theroy I have, you will see I believe almost every character will be either Homophobic or show how Homophobia can affect you even when you're an ally. I am still working on each character analysis and theory, like I said ripple effects.

I believe Will, having a serious relationship, he is hiding from everyone else, is just one way we could see that happen. So maybe not a side piece.

I watched a YouTube documentary recently. It was about the gay hate crime in 1973 New Orleans. I am convinced that the 4th season drew from the crime itself. I will link to it at the bottom of this theory if can find the exact one.

The narrator mentioned the amount of lying that goes into staying closeted. How the survivors had to go to work the next Monday because otherwise their coworkers would know they were queer. How you had to grieve completely alone and in silence.

This is why ST is so water down. Horror and gore will never be as terrifying as the evil we face in the real world.

So, how do hate crimes have anything to do with Will and Chance? Well, it has everything to do with them.

ByChance will be what divides the group because dating while in the closet will be what divides the group.

Homophobia is a bitch isn't it?

How do we get there?

I would now like to take the time and address the most common criticisms of ByChance.

1. The show doesn't have the time.

False. Easy solution. You write the others into the equation.

Every season follows the same formula. They start in separate groups, and they finish in 1 big group. Flip it, imo they will start in 1 big group, and by the end, you will have 5 Heros standing alone to save the world.

Will lies about his whereabouts. For his and Chance's safety. The writers wrote Mileven in season 3 the same way. Wow, how very gay of Mike.

The other characters grow suspicious.

The writers use his connection to Henry to Venca's advantage.

Do you see it? You quite literally don't need Chance and Will to have senses together. You just have to prove he is lying for unknown reasons.

Venca's advantage is Will being gay in an Homophobic world.

Will is going to be villainize for probably, several episodes. Get on board.

Is he evil? No, he is just gay and closeted.

2. Chance is a bully accusation.

Oooo this one is my favorite because what if he isn't?

What if Chance, this ridiculously pretty face, is actually awesome? What if the ByChance vs Byler war could replace Mileven vs. Byler war. We gays would love the drama, please. We deserve that. Will Byers deserves that.

As I established the UD it bleeding into Hawkins. We could see for the first time a swoon worthy jock character.

Steve is not swoon worthy. He yells at Erica, a 10 year old child, when she is scared for her life. Opting to put her in harms way instead of being the adult in the room. Twice. Looking at you season 4!

Disqualified as swoon worthy.

(Sidenote Erica's analysis is proving to be the single hardest thing I have to write, the amount of tears I have cried over her omg. Just know she is so important)

But Chance, oh, Chance, he could be great. He is loyal. Him standing by Jason's side proves it.

That is pretty much all we know right now.

Chance could make Mike do something he has never had to do in the show is so far, fight for Wills attention.

I did say Chance and Will need almost no scenes, but I will take them if they are going to give me them.

A note on Dustin.

I have thoughts on Dustin that I am still working out, but I ask you, are you 100% positive that he will start the fight at the cemetery? His main influence, Steve, is consistently violent every season, and Dustin will be wrapped in his own grief, an emotion, and feeling that makes you act upside-down.

2½ if the writers take Chance in the more traditional bully route. I will defend Will Byers with math.

Let's put 200 people at Hawkins High.

Divide Equally into 100 girls and 100 boys.

Well, there goes 100 options immediately.

That leaves us at 100 boys. Gay men are an minority, so cut that number all the way down to just Mike and Chance. Math in small towns is not pro gay. This is why so many young queer people move to big cities.

3. Chance is old.

Do you know that? Me either.

Here is an uncomfortable gay history lesson. Gay teenagers used to date older gay men all the time. It was about lack of opportunities to be with another man in a safe manner. These were usually not unhappy experiences. We have come so far. It is not easy but a part of history, but history is usually not easy to learn.

However I don't think Chance will be older. Probably same year maybe senior?

4. What about Byler? What about Mike?

By November 6, 1987, it will have been a year and a half of Mike Wheeler continuing to date El. Will does not need to bend every which way for Mike. That is all the thoughts I have for the current moment on that relationship.

I think Chance is Mike. The idealized version of himself anyway. He is popular. He is a heart throb, and he may be King of Hawkins High when we jump into the season? Chance is athletic. Basically, everything Mike secretly desires and lies about now wanting.

Let's look to a childhood crush of mine in how I think Mike could be Chance.

Chance=Atreyu

Mike=Bastian.

Atreyu allows Bastian to live his dreams and fantasies while staying safe in the real world.

Chance would allow Mike to be with Will while staying safe in the real world.

What other criticisms are there? I can not think of them right now.

On to breaking the world or Mike Wheeelers heart.

Head Cannon time.

Wish. The most powerful spell by casters in d&d. It rewrites the universe.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2619213-wish?srsltid=AfmBOopypZHVdhlnObLwR0P-qBX1M_pJbejf9BB3abRDcR1YHa2JpDc4

Ok, take the straight rules of romance. They kissed and lived happily ever after the end. Throw them away immediately.

Try they kissed and then hated themselves because the news covered the Aids epidemic that night on the news.

Or they kissed, and then Mike prayed at church for God to change him. Leaving Will to lose himself more to self-destructive behavior.

The list goes on and on driven by internalized homophobia, what a bitch.

They better kiss as many times as the straight couples do! Mirror imagery Duffers you wrote the rules I just analyze them.

Now I believe Will Byers will be locked inside the lab for the majority of ep8. I have my reasons for that. So, how does he get locked away? How would I write it?

Easy Prom.

Jock Andy switches the prom queen result card for one of the reads Will Byers. This is meant to be a cruel joke on the schools gay kid. This is meant to be Duffers Carrie moment. We shall be subverting.

Will being a brave soul , he steps onto that stage to collect his crown. He turns to face the crowd and locks eyes with Mike. Mike has two choices 1 be as brave as Will and come claim his man in front of everyone or run.

He is going to run. But not before he watches Chance step onto the stage and wrap his arms around Will.

Miscommunication in its finest. Honestly, Chance only wants Andy to see the real him. At this point in my hc, ByChance has broken up long before this scene

So later, after Chance and Will get done dancing. We get the writers version of the most iconic scene ever.

I wish I knew how to quit you.

Broke Back Mountain

It would be more,

You couldn't even dance with me, Mike. Sometimes, I wish I had never even met you.

Boom wish is now casted.

We turn back the clock into a world where Mike and Will never met.

End episode 7. Merry Christmas.

[ven0moir]

THIS POST IS SO GOOD holy cow I am GAGGED:

"Is Chance a literal narrative vehicle?"

Me @ Will: GO ON POOKIE, TAKE THAT CHANCE.

This sparked SO. MANY. THOUGHTS, though omg ... let me see if I can keep us somewhat organized here lmaooo. So, to start us off, I want to bring your attention to ...

The signature ...

The likelihood of us seeing this signature in the actual show are Very Low, so I'm inclined not to look Too Much into it. Instead, I like to focus on what's there In Plain Sight.

The legible letters I am making out are 'DC'.

With all of the talk of superheroes and whatnot in S4, Vecna's association to bats, my mind immediately goes to 'DC Comics'

source

Little Tangent:

We write from left to right, and from top to bottom, so the placement of those movies on the board make me feel like these were some of the first movies they watched.

( I could be wrong, though. They could've started from wherever. Like the center and then built up. )

My point is, if you zoom in, you'll notice a faint GRID that was smudged during the chaotic process that is brainstorming, hehe. Each square we ARE able to see, though, contains a set of movies.

So as chaotic as this board looks at first glance, it does seem to have started off somewhat organized. And I bring this up because they would've HAD to if we're right on our assumption that they ARE leaving clues for us they WANT us picking up on ... and weave together. Otherwise, why post this board at all?

And that GRID is something S4 and S5 have in common for sure. This is what the S5 one looks like at the START, according to the writers themselves:

source

I wonder what the final version looked like lmao. Maybe super chaotic, I'm obsessed.

That reeks of "Writer's Intent + Clues Pay Off" to me.

Now, back to the cars ...

And lets not forget that cars are one of Hollywood's oldest, most enduring, symbols of masculinity, tied to themes like freedom, rebellion, coming-of-age, escapism, danger, destiny... And sexuality.

This reminded me of ... Mike talking about SUPERMAN + FATE ( determinism ) DESTINY ( Free Will/Choice ) vs DUMB LUCK ( Chance ) + CAR = aka the VAN SCENE.

This is to say ... do you think it's worth looking into✨two of the most iconic superhero cars in the DC franchise? ✨

Wonder Woman's Invisible Plane and, of course .... The Batmobile?

I might watch those two movies again, in case anything pops up too ...

I have more to say about BYCHANCE and CARS. Buckle up buttercups 🌼

@cypherheartnokey and @ven0moir made a bunch of points about how cars tie into bychance: here, here, here, here and here.

Go check em out, it's how I got the brainworm 🧠🪱

When I first looked at the car sketch from the Jock #2 locker pic my first thought was:

"That kinda looks like a DeLorean."

So I did some digging to find the model and realized it's either a Conquest or a DeLorean.

I mean they look a lot alike (especially when all you have to go on is a sloppy sketch lol)

I'm positive though. The sketch is NOT a DeLorean:

▪️ the fuel lid is on the outside of the Conquest, as depicted in the sketch. On a DeLorean, you have to pop the hood to access it.

▪️ the hubcaps in the sketch, although messy, looks a lot more like the Conquest.

▪️ the silhouette in general, although similar, more closely resembles the Conquest.

Case closed.

But WAIT. The resemblance is still striking. For no apparent reason.

Why would they pick such a DeLorean-looking car? It's Will's letterman-looking jacket all over again.

Well... what do cars represent? In Back to the Future? In movies in general?

🕰️ In Back to the Future, the DeLorean is a time machine; a literal mode of transportation through spacetime.

It allows the protagonist Marty to, instead of just accepting things as they are, have the agency to change his future.

In his case TRANSPORTATION = TRANSFORMATION

The DeLorean gives him a choice, showing that he's the driver of his life, and ultimately, his destiny.

It's FREE WILL vs FATE

A theme heavily associated with Will. His lack of agency, constantly being victimized by the circumstances, has been a heavy plot point since S1. The UD, MF, Mileven, moving to California...

It's time for our boy to... take the wheel 😎

🚘 CARS in general are intimate, enclosed spaces.

Scenes in cars, like dinner table scenes, forces characters together, to interact. These scenes are private, personal and often serve as a catalyst for intimacy and relational drama. Car scenes also heighten the stakes (think car chases, getaway scenes, car accidents).

And lets not forget that cars are one of Hollywood's oldest, most enduring, symbols of masculinity, tied to themes like freedom, rebellion, coming-of-age, escapism, danger, destiny... And sexuality.

A cool car is hot. That's just a fact.

Hollywood loves their cars.

In movies roads, and by extension cars, are liminal spaces. They're neither here nor there, but somewhere in-between. It's a place of transition.

Liminal spaces are a little like...

... being caught between two slides in a View-Master. Or going through a gate between our world and the upside down.

I could go on and on, there's just sooooo much car symbolism we could unpack here.

But to keep it nice and breezy, cars are:

▪️ plot devices for transformation and transition

▪️established symbols of masculinity, sexuality, rebellion, coming-of-age, escapism, danger, freedom and destiny

▪️used in scenes that heighten the stakes (in the plot and/or between characters)

Now, I'm convinced the car in the sketch belongs to Chance, just like the locker.

Is Chance a literal narrative vehicle 😳 for Will's character growth? Is he, in some type of way, Will's DeLorean? Not the destination but a way to get there? Is he the detour Will has to take to get to Mike?

We already concluded that Will needs agency.

Overall, but especially in relation to Mike. It's one of the one major things he lacks throughout the narrative. I absolutely believe he'll get it. But it won't be all neat and tidy. This is horror. We gotta explore some dark themes to get there.

Will's gotta go to the upside down, literally and metaphorically, before he can turn things right side up. That includes the byler plotline.

And as have been said before; bychance is both the upside down version of byler and a great way to get there.

[ven0moir]

ohhhh .... my .... godddd ..... has any of you seen this movie? bc something tells me to watch it ...

I KNOW IM NOT INSANE RIGHT

ITS ON THE BOARD….

THERES QUEER MEDIA ON THE BOARD AND IT HASNT BEEN USED YET!!!

ITS PROBABLY BEING USED FOR WRITING BYLER AND ROVICKIE!!

[ven0moir]

I LOVE THESE CONNECTIONS! and I wanna add that there ARE elements of Bychance that don't quite make sense to me yet. & one of the main arguments I've seen against Bychance is that it doesn't "fit" within the story and that it's not "necessary" ... but the thing is, it wouldn't be the first time that the show pulls off a seemingly "detour" or "dead end", only to connect it back to the main story.

For example, the whole Viktor Creel story that Wayne told Nancy. I remember when I was watching that with my GA friend and when they had Nancy go to the library, she was like "ugh that's an OBVIOUS detour, WHY are they doing this?"

And by 'they' she meant the WRITERS. But lo and behold, there WAS a reason why they did it--and it was connected to the main storyline, it just didn't cross her mind. And ironically I remember thinking something similar too about it when I first saw that.

So if Bychance happens, my money is on it's been planned for some time now and it WILL make sense within the narrative. 🤷‍♀️ not everyone is going to like it, but that's just the thing about writing, isn't it? You can't please everyone.

Nancy's journalistic instinct was 100% on the money, she just needed Robin to help her find THE connection. this whole Bychance thing has triggered my own journalistic instinct too bc now im starting to suspect it IS connected to the supernatural in some way.

In fact, it might even HAVE to be

Bychance, Vecna, Nosferatu, Vampires & Temptation

—

This is a response to this post by @offsidetracked:

—

EXCELLENT POST, and also:

"A big theme in Will's S5 arc is ✨TEMPTATION✨ Resisting it, giving in to it. And finding out the consequences of both."

Huge theme in The Phantom of the Opera (1910), Dracula (1897), Labyrinth (1986) & especially Nosferatu (1922). And many other works I'm sure.

It's no coincidence that Vecna 🦇 embodies the characters' trauma & is played by Jamie Campbell Bower—who played vampire Caius Volturi in Twilight, "one of the three ancient leaders of the Volturi, who are based in Volterra, Italy [...] Caius [...] is the most ruthless of the three leaders." (Twilight Saga Wiki)

TROPE: The "innocent" damsel being seduced by an older, lustful, hypnotizing, usually rich/powerful man (often a vampire 🧛‍♀️). A relationship which ultimately has the power to corrupt & destroy her.

We know that Chance/Jedediah is older, probably lustful (lol), hypnotizingly beautiful, & likely drives a cool car, which symbolizes material status.

(last pic by @ven0moir)

We’re approaching Will’s ✨material gworl✨ era, hence the s3 Max-El-Starcourt 🛍 connection to Taco Bell (Chance).

Will is waiting & Mike won't make a move!

Max & El are representative of different facets of Will's femininity. Taco Bell 🌮 is a reference to Chance probably being of Mexican origin. (For more info on this, check this post & this post.)

—

Bychance was always RIGHT THERE. 😭😭😭 Anyone who thinks this theory is "baseless" or "unlikely" has just been deluding themselves from the start.

🗝⸮₎₎⁾⁾⸝⁺⋆｡ﾟ⋆⸜﹒⋯﹒

To see more of my Bychance posts, click here -> BYCHANCE MASTERPOST.

[ven0moir]

This post is just Chef's Kiss omg ...you're right on the money I would say.

It also sparked a thought ...

The GA: "Will is going to become evil and/or die" <- these two things technically already happened, with nuance of course ( S1 Will and S2 Will ). And whereas we Bylers adamantly disagree with this happening again, I do like to give the GA some credit bc I do believe they're picking up on some subconscious patterns based on the show's cyclical structure and how characters 'swap places' through the seasons.

My current guess is, we'll see these two concepts back through Bychance.

Will's villain arc + "dying" =

💀💀💀💀

I've seen some takes that BYCHANCE would be BAD WRITING.

And I respect it, I just don't agree.

Let's get into it.

I think we all agree that Stranger Things is deeply psychoanalytic. Horror in general is. One thing I come back to over and over again when analyzing horror is this quote from Freud:

"Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are buried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways."

This is true for both Mike and Will, just in different ways.

By the end of S4, Mike's character arc is much clearer than Will's is. It's brilliantly written, truly. His relationship with El is straight up (lol) a toxic coping mechanism for dealing with his shadow, i.e. everything he represses and denies about himself.

There's even a literal shadow behind him the first time El dresses up as "a girl" (fantastic catch by @dungeon-master-mike). While Finn stares into the camera. Subtle.

Mike's journey is, to a large extent, about coming to terms with, embracing and expressing his feelings for Will. He knows on some level, that they're there. He just violently flees from them at the moment.

What about Will? What does he repress and deny?

Not his feelings for Mike.

The whole point of the painting in S4 (besides the Chekhov's Gun aspect) is largely about admitting these feelings and expressing them (even if it's in a veiled way). So it's not that. And it won't do to just let him sit passively next season while Mike figures his shit out. That would be bad writing if anything.

So what about Will?

Well...

This was, as I guess you know, part of the large leak that happened on February 22. It seems legit, judging from the scope and the official looking graphics and illustrations.

And it made me more confident in something I've suspected for a while:

A big theme in Will's S5 arc is ✨TEMPTATION✨ Resisting it, giving in to it. And finding out the consequences of both.

I suspect it will culminate in a Garden of Gethsemane type situation with Vecna at some point. You know, when Jesus was tempted to flee from the path of the cross and let the world face judgement without him (the Bible got some quality drama🧃).

"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." —Matthew 26:41

☝️that's what bychance would be about in a nutshell:

Being tempted by "worldly desires" and creating a slippery slide into Will's more selfish and self-gratifying sides, sides that will bite him in the ass precisely because he refuses to reconcile with them.

They'll rise like zombies and wreck havoc in a bunch of brain dead ways.

Bychance would be the upside down version of byler.

It's needed (or something similar is) to make Vecna's final temptation believable. The audience has to doubt Will's character and the limits of his kindness, wisdom and valor juuuuust a little. It's his final trial. The stakes should be high and we should all feel slightly nervous, even us bylers.

But we need stepping stones to get there.

We've already seen what happens when Will suppresses these sides of himself. Eventually, he explodes 💥:

Look at him.

You're telling me he wouldn't take a little detour to the dark side?

Like most people who've suffered through childhood trauma, Will carries a great deal of repressed rage. The narrative has to deal with it. And this is the last stop to do so.

That's his arc this season.

BLOWING UP as a result of the trauma he's endured and BEING SUSCEPTIBLE TO TEMPTATION because of it.

And, I feel like a broken record saying this, bychance could be a great way to get the story there.

That's the main reason I'm onboard with the idea; it would be such an interesting journey for Will's character to go on while serving byler beautifully.

Sounds like damn fine writing to me.

[ven0moir]

MIKE & WILL are aware they like each other ... they just aren't sure it's mutual, or if they're just being delusional

This is a wip but, I was DYING to post it following this beautiful read by @cypherheartnokey and @offsidetracked , my bychance moots:

tl;dr

Mike and Will are both being more intentional in S4 than we have been giving them credit for. They were playing a little game. Why do I believe this? Because this is ✨ Television ✨

And I'm going to be as bold as pinpointing the EXACT MOMENT IN TIME when their GAME began. It was right here:

The Moment Hope Bloomed between them, because Will Spoke Up.

WILL ROLLED INITIATIVE ( "I did, I guess I did" )

✨& INSPIRED ✨

MIKE'S ACTION ( "He'll come crawling back to you in no time." / "Will, I'm sorry, man" ).

😈 ACTION INTERRUPTED BY THE WORLD ( aka the horrors came back )

GA BONUS: my GA friend, when we watched this together the first time, saw Mike biking and went "Oh yeah he's going to apologize to El like Max sa----" the AWKWARD SILENCE that followed had me HOWLING. He literally just shut up in that moment and didn't say anything else HELP ... 💀 SIDE NOTE And yeah sure at surface level it feels like Mike spent the whole season trying to make up with El--I don't want to get side-tracked trying to "explain how Mileven isn't romantic", so this is all I'll say about it:

MILEVEN = SANDWICHED BETWEEN TWO PLATONIC "I love you's" BYLER: SANDWICHED BETWEEN TWO ROMANTIC COUPLES.

GA BONUS: The first time we saw that last scene, myself AND my GA mother actually screamed when Hopper and Joyce held hands bc for One Second, ✨we BOTH thought it was Mike and Will. ✨ She's not a "Byler shipper" and has no stakes in this situation--my guess? That was INTENTIONAL visual language to make us, the audience, associate Mike and Will as a pairing that 'holds hands'. My conclusion, like cypher pointed out in her post, this confirms to me that Romantic Mileven is the real JOKE SHIP here & Will thinks so too.

Now, back to THE GAME

WILL'S ACTION ( "Not possible" ) 😈 ACTION INTERRUPTED BY THE WORLD( aka the current circumstnaces: byers moving away )

look at the way he looks at Mike after he smiles like that + that CHEEKY, CONFIDENT LITTLE SMIRK as he trots off. But sure, he's totally not picking up on Mike's Queercoding™

✨INSPIRED ✨

MIKE'S ACTION ( foreshadowed by Phone behind Will ). 😈 ACTION INTERRUPTED BY THE WORLD ( aka Joyce's new job )

But not before his action ...

✨INSPIRED ✨

WILL'S ACTION ( "Will's been painting a lot") 😈 ACTION INTERRUPTED BY THE WORLD ( Mike self-sabotaged & kept Will from giving him the painting )

WILL'S ACTION pt ii ( Seeing through Mike + "What about us?" ) 😈 ACTION INTERRUPTED BY THE WORLD ( Mike keeps self-sabotaging / doesn't finish the conversation ) Being true to his name Will, he isn't deterred by Mike's perceived rejection. Will The Wise also sees through Mike. This is to say, in levels of maturity, Will is more emotionally aware, BRAVER and READIER than Mike to confront his feelings.

He's AHEAD of him in S4, and unlike Mike, he's SINGLE. Available.

S4 Will was 'playing with advantage' because of that. My question is, what gives Will hope? And right now, I suspect Mike said something during those phone calls that he perceived as a "clue"--we'll see in S5!

Will only seems deterred when Mike said "well, maybe you should've reached out more" because phone calls were supposed to be Mike's Action, according to him. So now, he looks like he's Questioning His Entire Reality. Because maybe he was wrong ...

To quote Jason, is he questioning if he ✨started playing a game on his own and WARPED FANTASY with REALITY and now he can't tell what's real vs what's not ✨?

The GAME was PAUSED once The World Went To Shit For Real this time. until ...

WILL'S ACTION ( "It always is, isn't it?" / Making Mike Laugh ) Will started off being there for Mike, but he naturally threw that flirty "it always is, isn't it?" line, Which we can count as his action ...

✨because it INSPIRED ✨ ...

MIKE TO RESUME THE GAME ( Flirty Mode On + "Hawkins isn't the same without you" + "let's be a team" )

COMMERCIAL BREAK:

I need to crash out for a second bc SNEAKY LITTLE POS ( affectionately ) ISTG I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY ABOUT THIS SCENE BC I'M 100% SURE MIKE WHEELER WAS INTENTIONALLY SENDING A ROMANTIC MESSAGE HERE. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing--he also thought he was SINGLE here and even though I don't think he wanted to jump into a relationship with Will right away ( he wanted to BUILD UP TO IT NATURALLY ) he DID want and WAS HOPING Will would TAKE THE BAIT. And do what? Give him the painting. At a personal level, THAT is what he wanted most this season, imho. I mean, it's all over the symbolism in this scene which I'll make an adjacent post on ( that's why you see the little numbers ) but anyway like I genuinely SEE him in my Third Eye, this mfer rehearsing what to say to Will in the bathroom before going into his room. It's giving:

I'M COO COO BUT I AM FREE

Back to THE GAME

✨Mike's Action INSPIRED ✨ ...

WILL'S ACTION ( Taking the painting with the intention to give it to him when The Moment Felt Right )

Aaandddd ... then The World Went To Shit For Real Real. Ensue Miscommunication trope, Mike's responsibility towards El, etc etc and then ...

MIKE'S ACTION ( "i'm just some random nerd" / corrupted by Intrusive Thoughts + Self-Doubt )

💀 "INSPIRED" 💀 ...

WILL'S ACTION ( Giving him the painting ... but lying about it )

Which then 💀 "INSPIRED" 💀 ...

MIKE'S ACTION ( corrupted Love Confession ... to the Wrong Person )

They both LOSE THE GAME

VECNA WINS THIS ROUND.

Now, let's go back to this scene, because there is a LOT to unpack here:

of course an incoming CAR interrupts them 💀 but anyway, it is my personal belief that

IF The World hadn't interrupted MIKE'S ACTION here, THEN ...

Mike asks Will to be his teammate -> Will gives him the painting In This Same Scene + gives his whole "you're a leader, inspiring us" speech but NOT disguised behind El -> Mike is visibly Happy / Flattered and Makes a Direct Move™--we'll say it is a Cheek Kiss bc it would've paralleled S2 Jancy -> ( GIFT GIVING + CHEEK KISS )

BONUS: Will loves gifts too and Christmas is his favorite holiday likely bc he loves presents and in S4 they forgot about his birthday entirely I'm going to freaking cry scream throw up my sweet baby GIVE HIM A BELATED BDAY GIFT DUFFERS OR I SWEAR .....

alternatively, Will ends up being the one giving the kiss, which I think S4 Will and even S3 Will WOULD have done. S5 Will is another story. I'm of the belief that at the start of the season, he'd rather DIE than confess to Mike tbh.

But the reason why I think the cheek kiss ( or whatever the Duffers decided ) would've been initiated by Mike is because ...

S5 Chance will hijack whatever S4 Mike's Move would've been & thus S5 Bychance will start off somewhat similarly to how S5 Byler *would* have, if Mike and Will had Won The Game in S4.

Mike: too slow Chance: too fast

Let's explore why I believe this.

S1, S2 and S3 Chance exist strictly as a concept. S4 Chance though, exists as both a concept & a random bg character nobody expects anything from outside of his role as a follower/bully.

S5 Chance?

He is ...😭he was foreshadowed as Will's ... First #Something & Mike's Rival in AT LEAST S1EP1, S1EP4, S4EP1, S4EP4. The pattern made my brain go haywire because of the MIRROR numbers. So I googled the meaning of 14:41 and I got this:

Seeing 14:41 PM continuously on your clock has a very clear message that you can't miss: you must be careful, because the path you've taken might not be the best one.

This reversed hour is related to exploration, freedom, adventure, and independence, but all of them together have two sides. The first, positive, is what they clearly demonstrate. The second, somewhat more complex, is that of responsibility. And that's precisely what your guardian angel, the universe, or whoever else is telling you: be careful, because you're straying from the path. This message can apply to the world of finance, family, romance, or friendship. Either way, you need to be careful. The good news is that you still have time to correct your course. It's in your hands to turn around now and find a solution to all of this. Otherwise, you may miss something very important. source

Uh ... is that not what we've been saying about Bychance? I'm screaming. But there's ... so much more ...

so much more ....

✨ to be continued ✨

NEXT POST:

BYCHANCE HINTS ( The Trojan War )