wan1o

[wan1o]

Being A Fan Of Something Popular: Expectation vs Reality.

[wan1o]

[wan1o]

HELLO EVERYNYAN!

[wan1o]

ACTUALLY IM NOT ASHAMED TO SAY IT. IM DELUSIONAL ABOUT IVTI, BUT THIS SONG IS DEFINITELY AT LEAST IN SOME PART ABOUT IVAN LIKE COME ON NOW

why are ppl acting like they're such a "cray cray delulu ivti fan in denial" when they think his sub:song MIGHT maybe possibly be abt Ivan, as if there are multiple lines that could not possibly be abt Mizi

[wan1o]

[wan1o]

[wan1o]

I am as happy as everyone about the release of the newest Till song, but please remember to respect each others opinions, not because someone thinks differently than you does it mean they deserve to be belittled or insulted. Remember to engage in respectful discussions of the song

[wan1o]

mi vida loca is about ivan (duh). walk with me. why would till sing about not knowing this person's feelings of whether if they love him or hate him if it wasn't ivan? he already knows mizi's feelings towards him. of course there are some lines that feel more directed towards mizi. but why else would he be singing about feeling scared and widening the distance? because ivan doesn't outright show how he truly feels about till. we as the audience know he loves till, but from till's pov, all he sees is this guy who seemingly mocks him, beats him up and laughs at him, but also *does* like to spend time with him and keep him company when he draws. of course till isn't going to know how to take that. if this is him singing AFTER round 6, then there's the kiss and then choking right after. long story short i think till knows how he feels about ivan but latches onto the security of having a crush on mizi because it's safer to love someone who you can't have than to love someone who you don't know what their true feelings are. I LOVE IVANTILL!!!

[wan1o]

as i was reading the lyrics to Mi Vida Loca I thought, "Obviously this is about Ivantill, but I know there's gonna be a few stupid ppl who think this is about Mizi", and then I checked the comments and remembered which fandom i was in

[wan1o]

All evidence Till survives (4/4)

Narrative Criticisms:

1. Feels empty or that there's something missing

It could be said a series is defined by the emotions it invokes in its audience. Here are some ways fans described Round 7 and Till's death:

disappointing

dissatisfying

premature

incomplete

lacking

stale

repetitive

flat

stagnant

anticlimactic

wasteful

senseless

pointless

pessimistic

unjustified

a bad choice

all for nothing

Hardcore fans will later jump to defend the creators and story by looking for justifications, but the initial feelings and impression still matter. Casual fans will not look that deep.

2. Does not make sense narratively

@tillsfan explained Ivan has served as the narrator in the story of both himself and Till. Sua and Ivan's goals were fulfilled and impacted the other characters and story. Till's character didn't develop after Mizi's disappearance nor Ivan's death. He didn't have the opportunity to impact the story nor to be impacted. His character is wasted. He is deprived of his potential.

@cloverandstuff recognized that it dehumanizes him and removes his autonomy even within his own narrative.

Till dying in Round 7 ends his character arc mid-way, right after learning of Ivan's feelings. Only his abuse and his infatuation with Mizi were told from his perspective. We never learned how he felt about Ivan before Alien Stage and how he felt after Round 6 and Round 7. He didn't have time to process Ivan's death and neither did we as the viewers.

It's nonsensical to tell his story after he no longer has a role in the story. We can only learn about his past, because he has no future. Yet his character is shrouded in mystery with unanswered questions. @tillsfan described it: "the dots aren't connecting the same way as they have for previous deaths."

Round 7 itself served little purpose. @fandom-drake pointed out we learned nothing new about the characters nor their relationship. It was predictable and redundant. "First we replace a traumatized Mizi with Till. Now a traumatized Till with Mizi."

@yumetill noted Wiege brushed over his death and went straight to Hyuna and Luka's story.

3. Negates Ivan's character and Round 6

What did Ivan die for if Till doesn't have the chance to process it after his death? Was Till not meant to realize Ivan's feelings and reflect on his presence in his life? All Till ever did is suffer and turn a blind eye to his reality until it broke him completely. @rockwgooglyeyes expressed it as "[Ivan's] merely used as a bludgeon to whack over Till's head and put him into the grave."

@rockwgooglyeyes also noted that it validates Ivan's perception of himself as an unlovable monster. We only see their relationship through Ivan's perspective. His actions are used to hurt Till and that leads to Till's death. There is no other result.

@atrophiedemotion summarized Till and Ivan's stories are reduced to nothing but trauma for the viewer and for Mizi's character development. The motivation that defined Ivan's character amounts to nothing.

4. Nihilistic thematically

Alien Stage is said to be about hope and love. The only theme Till's death brings is hopelessness.

Here's some interpretations of the meaning of Till's death:

your efforts may be in vain by @geospiral

your life can be futile by @k9punkout

the insignificance of humanity by @theogony

cruelty of the world by @one-selective-bitch

not everyone gets to tell their own narrative by @cepheusgalaxy

not everyone gets to finish their own story by @cepheusgalaxy

your emotions will be invalidated by @rockwgooglyeyes

seeking happiness is pointless by @rockwgooglyeyes

hope can be crushed by @rockwgooglyeyes

life is unjust by @rockwgooglyeyes

you cannot always overcome the system by @rockwgooglyeyes

time will run out by @crustyfloor

it can be too late to be saved by @crustyfloor

there is always more to lose by @rockwgooglyeyes

Till and Ivan's characters amount to: there is nothing they can do against their oppressors. They are fated to die no matter who or how they love. This isn't what Alien Stage is about.

This is what the creators say the series is about...

In the very first work log:

What's the message that you want to get across to the viewers? <In the Alien Stage>, boys and girls on Earth will perform a survival performance in space. They love each other and fight, and that comes with sacrifice. It would be nice if the viewers could think about the form of "love" by watching the stories of each character.

In Behind The Scenes of Final Round:

I can imagine [Luka] smirking as he looks down on the new participants, who get swept away by their emotions. In truth, they are strong individuals who, in a space that seems inhumane, seek to connect by loving others.

In Behind the Scenes of ALNST 2nd Anniversary Pop-Up Store:

And at the Animate Alien Stage fan event:

While it's true it's a survival show, with dark themes and tragic sacrifices, at it's heart, ALNST is about humanity finding love in each other even in the darkest of places. And each character represents this in their own way.

I think it is necessary for Till to "die" in Round 7 to show just exactly how much of an effect Ivan's death had on Till - while also furthering Mizi's character development. But that he'll survive because without doing so his story (and his story with Ivan) is incomplete and thus the story of Alien Stage is incomplete.

Official Commentary

Till is a deuteragonist

This is written in the very first work log for Alien Stage available on the Patreon. This is almost certainly referring to Till, since his character sheet is posted at the top alongside Mizi and Sua. It was published during the production of episodes 1 and 2.

It makes sense. Till has been a main character in more episodes than most, second only behind Mizi. Accordingly, the amount of screentime he has is significantly greater than each of the other four characters'.

Dead characters impact on alive characters

There are three pairings each within one character witnessed the death of the other: Sua for Mizi, Ivan for Till, and Hyuna for Luka. @crustyfloor expressed that their deaths are painful and unforgettable, and yet those who witnessed it must live on. For Till to die here, @starrykorail stated, he (and Ivan) are then excluded from the purpose of the story. @verdantlights summarized Ivan's death is meant to haunt the narrative, and specifically, it's meant to haunt Till.

@starrykorail explained Till's death furthers Mizi's character development, but her narrative is already haunted by Sua. Mizi and Till were friends but they were not that close. @crustyfloor elaborated that the relationship between Mizi and Till lacks the intimate emotional connection that Ivan and Till had with each other. Ivan and Till are two halves of a whole. @crustyfloor concluded: Till is the only one who can complete their story.

Gatekeeping Till's POV

The creators have been tight-lipped and secretive about Till's character and his thoughts after Round 6 and Round 7. More than once fans have asked about it and did not receive an answer. That means the creators are waiting to reach a certain point in the story before revealing any more information about Till's perspective. He remains crucial to the story.

The entire team adores Till

Vivinos drew herself (blue) and QMENG (green) alongside Luka and Ivan.

In 2nd Episode Production Review that Finished Drawing in 4 Days To Go To Kirby Pop-Up Store, the team cheered that Till's storyboard captured his characteristics. They predicted "ALNST would be popular" because of episode 2. The team is always enthusiastic and proud when it comes to Till's character - consistently having moments of "it works!" or "this is it!"

They also always talk about Till endearingly. In the Behind the Scenes of FINAL ROUND, one of the favorite scenes is "the final moment that captures Till's shy expressions." It's explained that "a lot of thought went into conveying Till's boyish infatuation and emotions." He's described as having a "pure nature" and that "he's just a boy experiencing the innocence of first love." And in ABOUT <ALIEN STAGE : Drowning Bloom>, this is what is written about him:

Honestly that they love Till so much is probably why they're hiding so much about him (and also why they put him through so much). It gives the sense they have something special planned for him.

Foreshadowing | Observations | Official Art & Symbolism

[wan1o]

I have to be honest with you all...

I have no clue if this song is about Mizi or Ivan .

But my running theory is that this is about Mizi on a surface level, and it's about Ivan on a depthful level.

And with the addition of the "Don't you hate me," line it seems likely that it's probably about Ivan.

You could argue that it could be Till overthinking stuff with Mizi and believing she should hate him for liking her while she likes someone else. But Mizi isn't the kind of person who he knows would do that.

Meanwhile, Ivan came back to a prison just because Till didn't run away with him, so Till can logically and emotionally think that this man would have every right to hate him.

Now I'm just gonna analyse, using this translation by @/whatafruit

I can't say a word,

I turn back around every day,

This could obviously mean how Till gets really shy around Mizi and stutters around her most of the time.

But he also more obviously does this with Ivan. He does not say a word when he notices ivan and often just turns away. The first clear instance of this being the most impactful.

Now the lyrics;

I'll probably get it across to you for sure

Close the distance between us

To be inside your heart...

Initially appear to be about Mizi. He's distant with her, he wants to be closer to her, and have a place in her heart.

But then we get to this;

I get scared again like an idiot

Widen the distance between us

Mi Vida Loca...

And its goes back to likely being about Ivan. He sees uneasy whenever Ivan shows affection, and gets scared from it. He actively widens the distance between them.

The lyrics give a peek into the general mindset of Till as well.

(Ooh!)

They say this is a beautiful song,

and they open their arms wide for me

But more than the countless spotlights I want you

My light is born from you

He says that he is able to create such good music because of the light born from his love for whoever the song is about (at this point, it probably both Mizi and Ivan to some extent (bisexual disaster)). He doesn't want the fame or the fans that come with writing his songs, he just wants the person he loves.

(Oh) Your smile that doesn't love me

(Even so) I'll also smile at me who doesn't love myself

This is the part which stumps me the most.

The second part is easy enough to understand. He will smile at himself, even though he does not love himself.

But the first lyric is easy to connect to Mizi due to her recent comics. She smiles all the time, but there were moments where she didn't truly mean it.

It's harder to connect it to Ivan, who smiles the most around Till. He fakes his emotions alot, so Till could have interpreted that as a smile that does not love him. It's also possible that the smiles Ivan gives Till have a sense of longing that is inherently tragic. Which, again, could have been misinterpreted by Till.

But yeah, this whole song is very clearly a love song, and I have no clue about who it is truly about.

[wan1o]

I have some thoughts just about this one.. do I think this is mainly about Mizi? Yes I do. The reason why I think that is because of the “your smile doesn’t love me” lyric. In the latest comic Mizi reaffirmed her feelings saying she will never love Till and exclusively loves Sua. So basically that lyric could imply it’s about Mizi and deep down he knows her smile and her root of joy lies in the arms of Sua and not himself. However there’s still a chance this song could also be about Ivan. Till talks about feeling pathetic every time he stands in front of them (I say them because there’s no gender specific pronoun used in the song- if there was it would be a lot easier to determine if it’s about Mizi or Ivan) that he can’t say a word and so he turns back around. That sounds really familiar because In black sorrow we witness Ivan and Till running away only for Till to let go of Ivans hand and turn back. This could be about Till expressing his guilt towards that incident and ever since that moment there had been a distance out between them. In this song Till is asking the person not to hate him and questions if they love him still could be applied to Ivan with the distance Till put between them because of his nagging guilt- he could be wondering if Ivan hates him over that incident and other Ivan lyric’s confirmed Till had looked at him with a confused gaze therefore implying he was oblivious to Ivan’s feelings- which could also be why he is asking how they feel and potentially if they hold resentment or Hatred for him and asking them not to. The lyrics saying that I’ll also smile at the me who doesn’t love myself could suggest two things, one that Till is very insecure about himself and the way he loves, or if we apply this to Ivan then it could be talking once again about the guilt and it had built up so much that it begun to affect how he seen himself and as if he’s disappointing others. The lyric to be inside your heart is repeated a few times as well and if we are going with this Ivan theory he did have a similar lyric- my wish to live inside you like parasite.. and Till’s lyric could sorta be matching but that maybe a bit of a stretch. This is all speculation of course I do think the songs primary meaning is about Mizi but I also don’t wanna dismiss the fact he could be about Ivan- there is a reason they chose not to include the pronouns or any other main details about who he is singing about I think it’s meant to be intentionally ambiguous. However with that being said I think we should also look now why this song could be about Mizi in more depth.

We know Till at very least heavily admired Mizi and she in the alien stage universe was a popular crush with multiple people expressing interest in her (despite the fact she has affirmed multiple times she only loves Sua and when talked about having romantic relationships with a man she expressed distaste) Mizi was aware of Till’s feelings for her and asked her why he still loves her despite her not ever going to like him back and he states it’s because he thinks she’s pretty. Till could view himself as pathetic for loving someone he knows will never love him back and when he stands even close to Mizi he gets insanely flustered and nervous he freezes up- this could be what the lyric of he can’t say a word and he turns back around everyday he’s too anxious to approach her because of his feelings. When he’s asking if the person he’s singing to loves him it’s always himself singing back the I do part , and when he is saying don’t hate me it could be referring to Mizi confirming she doesn’t love him (so hes singing it to himself because he knows she won’t) , he understands she won’t love him but he doesn’t want her to hate him for his feelings. Another lyric pointing at Mizi is the one about his light being born from them, during one of the music videos we see Till composing music and Mizi is sketched into the page implying she inspired him at least to create which could also imply she was his light. (If this is about Mizi this is kinda sad for Ivan because Ivan says the exact same thing about till and his eyes only gained light upon till entering his life) he desperately wants Mizi to understand his feelings and hopes he has a chance to be inside her heart.. to even push Sua out of there- we can tell this is very unrealistic but Till despite being told no from Mizi could just not be able to push back his feelings and that could lead him to feeling a lot of guilt or maybe Mizi not reciprocating his feelings had made him insecure and left him to ponder why and only finds the issue within himself. Maybe he truly thinks that if Mizi understands his feelings she’ll return them or rather maybe it’s the fact that Till doesn’t understand what Mizi’s feelings for Sua really entail and that she is never returning his feelings because she loves Sua the way he loves her. If it is this way it definitely makes sense to see how Mizi could feel a lot of frustration with the men around her and feeling like they aren’t taking her feelings seriously and objectifying her- this is not just a Till based issue with her being lusted after by multiple guys in alien stage.

Anyway these are all just theories! It’s very possible that this song is mizi focused and then whatever part 2 will be could potentially be Ivan focused ! But this is just some loose speculation!

My theories are based off this English translation!

[wan1o]

Tumblr is super big on the "I didn't say it was good, I said I liked it" but really need to discover the value in its opposite of "I didn't say it was bad, I said I hated it".

You can acknowledge that something is good, great, a masterpiece even, and just straight-up not enjoy it.

[wan1o]

i don't get people who fight ship wars when their fav has more than one popular ship, I'm over here like yessss..... They get all the bitches.......

[wan1o]

I was thinking about re reading hunger games this year but with the current state of the world I feel like I'm straight up living in that series

[wan1o]

The oldest trick in the book. Don't fall for it. Credit: @ourrevolution

[wan1o]

Some of my favorites from the No Kings March