where-dreams-dwell

[where-dreams-dwell]

MI7: the big bad is an all powerful omnipotent AI we will refer to as The Entity. We will do this with a straight face and no indication that we know how stupid it sounds.

MI7: no one could come up with a worse villian name than us

TOG2:….

TOG2: hold my beer

[where-dreams-dwell]

This! I wish this had been addressed as part of the original Quynh-as-the-villain narrative.

Like a speech from Andy about how the Church also imprisoned her so she didn’t know where they took Quynh (how did she escape btw?): maybe they buried her alive behind a church then Yusef and Nicky found her 5 years later when she didn’t show at their agreed meeting point.

And by that time most of Quynh’s ships crew were dead, they found the captains log was destroyed by the church to protect the world from ‘The Witch’, and actually 3 dummy ships were also sent out so no one could track them. So in actuality Quynh could be anywhere within a weeks sail of the British coast but no one knows for sure.

And Andy funds a marine exploration vessel that’s mapping the sea floor off of the English coast: she’s been financing it since the 90s and they’ve only mapped maybe 10% but she won’t give up.

It’s such an initially tragic story but the more I think on it the more I am like ‘yeah Quynh fuck her up a bit she did give up on you and then She never revisited her options’

Is anyone ever going to explain to me why Andromache stopped looking for Quynh????

Had all the time in the world. In a known general area of Ocean (narrowed down at a minimum) Had the resources, connections and money. But gives up looking for her immortal love? Meanwhile for 500 years Quynh kept hope, not just to be found but to escape and save Andromache from the same faith. Idk it's just giving lopsided.

[where-dreams-dwell]

I completely agree that Bookers actions are in character and make total sense for him as a character, but I agree with OP that it shows that wariness and suspicion around him as a team member was warranted post TOG1.

The overarching threat of TOG2 was huge but all of Booker’s focus was on how he could loose his immortality. If all it took was Nile cutting him then this could be tested after they won and millions of lives weren’t at stake: he could have years to enjoy his mortal life knowing there was an end and surrounded by his family. As soon as Tuah showed him the option to loose his immortality Booker should have been (partially) content: this was what he wanted Merrit to do, just find a way that it *could* end.

The fact that he couldn’t see that and was so desperate to jump on the possibility right then and there (despite it being a bad tactical decision, removing another unkillable fighter from their side) shows how unstable Booker still was. It shows that if they had kept him as a team member and trusted him on opps he would have still taken any opportunity to get what he was desperate for, even if it left the team exposed and vulnerable. They couldn’t trust him to cover their backs because now Booker has his own agenda and has shown he would put it above the team’s goals and safety.

As a family I agree, leaving Booker alone was the worse choice for his mental health and gave him fewer connections to the world and people who cared for him. But as a team, as a fighting force, he couldn’t be trusted operationally and in the field.

His death didn’t even help Andy in that fight as they could have easily let the door close behind them and rushed off to help out the others; giving his life to take a bullet for Andy or give them an opening to grab the others would have at least accomplished what he wanted while also helping the team. But Booker wanted to die so badly he took the first opportunity in that fight to *seek* his death.

If Andy hadn’t been delayed watching Booker sacrifice himself she might have been in time to grab at least Nile before she was taken to a chopper. Once again the team is captured because of Bookers actions and his focus on what he personally wants.

Joe can be as sad as he wants (I have big brown eyes myself, they don't work on me), but the events of TOG2 prove that the exile was the right thing to do.

Regardless of how anyone felt about him personally, they were not safe around him. The moment he had an opportunity to get what he wanted, he abandoned a mission in which ten million lives were at stake and left the team vulnerable to capture (again). His death scene was filmed as though it had weight, but it accomplished nothing and had zero strategic value. He just bailed.

They were right not to trust him. They were right not to keep him around. He was dangerous to them, he was a liability. True, they could have stayed in touch with him while still keeping him off the team, and that's basically what Joe did (making no difference whatsoever), but it's also fair and reasonable to want to take more than six months away from someone who has hurt and betrayed you. "How can we trust you not to sell us out again?" You can't. He did.

[where-dreams-dwell]

Old Guard fam, I know this is going to make me sound like I hate fun, but the moment Joe and Nicky were giggling about Booker getting his head blown off by a cannon was the moment I knew TOG2 was off the rails.

Like it's one thing for us, fans on tungler dot com who exist outside the narrative, to crack jokes about all the stupid ways they must have died and injured themselves over the years. And the first film definitely had a thread of gallows humor in it. But it worked precisely because both the story and the characters always took violence completely seriously.

They were never cavalier about getting injured or killed, because the whole point was that every time could be the last. We saw that getting hurt still hurt ("Just because we keep living doesn't mean we stop hurting"), dying still sucked, and getting seriously wounded could slow a character down enough to put them in danger even if it didn't kill them.

Violence--both doing it and surviving it--was never something to be taken lightly. In fact, characters being overly casual about risk to themselves (ie. Andy's "we don't need a pilot; we can jump and survive") was generally a warning sign that they were not okay.

The action in the first movie always felt like it had real consequences and stakes, even though the protagonists were immortal. When they were on a mission they were dead serious about it, and usually silent, and this clued the audience in to the idea that they were facing real risks. So to hear them chit-chatting over the comms while they were on the job on what seemed to be an assassination mission (more about that later), joking about something that wouldn't have been a joke in the first movie, felt like such a jarring tone mismatch right out of the gate.

And more generally, it made me think about how that style of undercutting action tension with quips and jokes is so often a misunderstanding of how tone works. I think some of it can be chalked up to the general allergy to earnestness that suffuses a lot of pop culture, but there is also an element of trying to lessen the heavyness of certain moments by blending tones, instead of by offering contradictions.

TOG1 had blood-soaked action sequences and it also had long-running baklava bets and unapologetic soliloquies about queer love and a young woman helping a stranger in the back room of a pharmacy and casually offering the humanist thesis statement of the film. It dealt with a lot of heavy thematic questions like "how do you create meaning for yourself in a world that feels full of endless horror?" and it had a sense of existential weariness and melancholy that hit the 2020 zeitgeist with a sledgehammer. But it never slid into the kind of performative grimdark misanthropy that it could have, because of its emphasis on human connection and continuing to try to help people even if easy moral certainty was hard to come by. "You reminded me there are people still worth fighting for." "We don't have all the answers, but we have purpose." "We're not meant to be alone."

They never tried to dilute the intensity or seriousness of the violence; they just balanced it with other emotional tones in other scenes and they fucking committed to whatever that scene was doing. And that's how you make a good movie.

[where-dreams-dwell]

Okay so now I can't stop thinking about this post and so I plotted out my ideal version of The Old Guard 2. It's long and insane, but so much better (tell me I'm wrong):

The scene begins with the words "Six months earlier" on the screen. Quynh is slamming against the inside of the iron maiden with her few minutes of consciousness. This time, the Iron Maiden breaks (it's rusted over the years under the water, and that's how it breaks). Quynh resurfaces, gasping, in the middle of the ocean. Nearby boaters spot her and rescue her. Through a series of short scenes, we see her ditch the boaters at the first opportunity, walk around wherever she is - we see her witness how much has changed in the way of technology, and clothing, and an idea of how she feels about all that - and find food and fresh water, steal clothing, and start trying to communicate with people - wherever she's resurfaced, she speaks the language (no dealing with the plot hole of how she can speak modern English so perfectly, since the first movie didn't tackle that either). We see her dream of Booker, and see her figure out where he is, and the scene ends with the implication that she's leaving to find him.

Cut to the rest of The Guard in the present, doing a mission. This is just an ordinary mission that they successfully finish (I would like to see them doing the shit they supposedly do for once). Could go basically the same way the movie does, but without finding out that the guy they got wasn't the guy and actually they're after some woman Nile's dreamed about. Nope. Not happening in this movie. Quynh's the only big bad in this movie.

The Guard is celebrating a successful mission. The drinking scene can stay mostly the same. We get Andy saying she's really happy. We get Joe texting, and Nicky wondering what's up.

Next scene keeps more or less in line with the movie, and we get Joe asking for "alone time," Nicky and Nile following, the fight, and the realization Booker isn't there. However, one crucial change is that Joe would give a more convincing reason for his change of heart than “We abandoned him.” I personally like the reasons I suggested in this post. I would also like Joe or Nicky to say something that confirms my headcanon (written in the same post), which is that before Joe resorted to lying, he did try to talk about this with Nicky several times but couldn’t come to a resolution.

Cut to where Booker actually is – kidnapped by Quynh, who is now asking about Andy, just like she did in the movie, and the realization Andy left her behind and that Booker is exiled. Booker doesn't tell her about Andy losing her immortality, just like he didn't in the movie (which you can attribute to him knowing Andy wouldn't want him to, or to him being kind of thoughtless and dumb, either works). Booker tells her he doesn't know where the guard is because he's exiled, but that he might be able to meet Joe.

Back at whatever house the Guard were in in this movie, Joe and Nicky are still arguing. We see more of their argument. Learn more about both of their sides of the argument, and any info about previous arguments or how Joe came to decide to meet Booker, or how many times he’d seen him, etc. They're interrupted by Booker contacting Joe persistently enough that even Nicky is kind of like "What's going on?" At this same moment Nile steps out of another room and says she just had a dream about Quynh - on land.

They meet Booker at the bench just like in the movie, bring him back to the house, and he gives Andy the same scroll she gets from Quynh in the actual movie. We also get Booker facing Joe and Nicky for the first time, and probably having basically the same, "Are you still doing the silent treatment thing?" conversation lmao. But we see Booker and Nile too and get an idea of how Nile feels about his return, and the news that Quynh is back.

Andy leaves to meet Quynh. She doesn't allow Nile to come. Firstly, because Nile won't be needed for plot reasons now that Discord isn't a thing, but secondly because this version isn't going to contradict Andy's character development in the first - if it's her time, it's her time. I think I would like some acknowledgment from Andy here that if anyone has the right to kill her, it's Quynh, or if she's going to let anyone kill her, it's Quynh, or something like that.

Andy arrives where she can find Quynh but hesitates just before turning the corner where Quynh will come into view. Here, she reminisces on her relationship with Quynh, and we get a flashback from before Quynh was taken, but this time, it's a flashback of seeing her and Quynh happily in love. Maybe we even get a sequence of short scenes showing them across time, happy and facing hard times together and in love in love in love.

Back at the house, Nile asks about Andy and Quynh again. She wants to know more than "For a long time it was just them," or whatever. She wants to know if Quynh might actually hurt Andy too, and Nicky and Joe describe what Andy and Quynh meant to each other, and share thoughts on Quynh's return, including what Quynh might do now that she knows they abandoned her. There is a consensus that they wouldn't be surprised, or something along those lines (Especially since in the first movie Joe called her a "pit viper" and Nicky said something like "500 hundred years under water would drive anyone insane."). Maybe Booker is even part of this conversation, because Nile would probably ask him if Quynh said anything to him, or what his impression of her was. I also think I would like Booker saying that he stopped telling Andy decades ago whenever he dream about Quynh because of how it affected Andy. this would confirm that Booker dreamed about her in the first movie too, but unlike Nile at that time, new better than to mention it.

Back to Andy, we see her and Quynh talking, just like in the movie. They fight, just like in the movie. Quynh curses Andy, just like in the movie.

At the house, we see Joe and Nicky continuing their argument and maybe they're getting closer to a resolution or understanding. I think I'd also like a one-on-one scene with Booker and Nile again. Booker can share with her what he's been doing the last six months. Nile can do the same. I think I'd like it if it's Booker's assumption that Nile must be really struggling with her newfound immortality, and him being surprised to learn she's not. I think I would like to see her say something that imparts some wisdom on Booker and makes him think. That could be many things, but I think her saying something about how she thought about what he said, about how she's "going to lose everyone she's ever loved" and her saying something along the lines of "You lose everyone you ever loved anyway" (you know, because of her dad. She lost him before she was immortal. It's not like being mortal saves you from losing people) and maybe her saying "the only difference is you end up loving a lot more people." Or maybe she says she's not going to lose any more people she loves than she would have, because who she loves/is going to spend her life with is the Guard, and they're not going to permanently die every hundred odd years like mortal loved ones. Anyway, whatever it is, it gives him something to think about.

Andy tries to follow Quynh, but just like in the movie, she escapes, and so Andy has to return to the house where the others are waiting for her and want to know what happened. I would like Andy to be a lot more visibly devastated by the whole thing, and for her to tell the others that Quynh isn't coming back.

A time skip. Maybe another six months. Maybe a year. The Guard actually has "never seen Andy like this before" and it's not Nile who makes this observation, since Nile hasn't known Andy long enough to have any idea what would constitute "like this." I want Andy to be getting crazy drunk during the days, going off on her own and being reckless the way she’s used to being, and the guard telling her she can’t do shit like that anymore now that she’s mortal, and her literally not caring because Quynh hates her and she hates herself. When she’s not being drunk and restless, I want her in bed, in the dark, barely remembering to eat. I want the members of the guard, individually or together, trying to pull her out of it, and not being able to. I think Booker could still be there with the excuse that he’s worried about Andy too, and wants to be there in the event something happens to her/wants to help watch after her, and Joe and Nicky not really having the energy or presence of mind to deal with caring one way about it or another. This would be another opportunity to see them together as a group, loving and caring about one another, despite their circumstances. Also an opportunity to see Nile belonging as part of this group now, and how she fits into it.

I think it would be necessary for someone, and would like Nile to be the one, to try to convince Andy to contact Quynh again. I think she would try to tell Andy firstly to tell Quynh she thought Quynh was dead, and secondly that she's immortal. I like Nile for this firstly because I want Nile to feel like a prominent character in this movie just like the first, but secondly because I think the others would know better than to try to tell Andy to do this, and thirdly, because Nile is kind of naïve. She’s optimistic, and thinks the best of people, and even in the first movie she wanted to let Booker off with an apology – I can see her being like, "You thought she was dead, that's not your fault," and Andy saying that she still stopped searching before she ever thought that. Then I can see Nile pivoting to, “Well, why don’t you just tell her you lost your immortality? If she knew that, maybe she’d talk to you again, and maybe you guys could make up.” Then I want Andy saying that she doesn’t want to tell this to Quynh because Quynh has a right to her rage and telling her that she’s lost her immortality would take that from her and she thinks Quynh has a right to want to punish her for what she did.

Copley is also there, putting some pressure on them or is at least there to remind them, like, hey, you guys are supposed to be doing jobs, and while this is happening bad shit is happening elsewhere. I think he could even be used to foreshadow what Quynh is planning, but in a way that doesn’t reveal it’s Quynh’s doing.

Back to Quynh. We see her somewhere far off, putting a plan in motion. We don't know the details, but we see the means by which she's making it happen, and we know that she's readying to get her revenge on Joe, Nicky and especially Andy.

Finally – after some time (they've all still been at the house the whole time Andy has been being reckless and grieving Quynh leaving her - long enough that they're living semi-ordinary days at the house), Joe and Nicky go somewhere without Andy, Nile and Booker. It's an errand of some kind that needs to be run. Well, Quynh gets them. She takes Joe and Nicky hostage, and in some way or another ensures that Copley or the rest of the guard find out that she’s taken them hostage. She tells Andy that she intends to make them suffer the way Andy let her suffer.

This is enough to snap Andy out of it. She can’t let Joe and Nicky be tortured endlessly by Quynh, obviously. Nile is immediately game to go too. Booker decides to go as well because Andy is mortal and because he cares about Joe and Nicky obviously, and Andy isn’t as dedicated to making it clear to Booker she’s still mad at him – possibly at this point is beyond caring about anything else but Quynh to even be mad at him anymore – so she's fine with him going too. They all leave to save Joe and Nicky.

Cut to Joe and Nicky about to be locked up or tortured in some way. Quynh is talking to them, expressing her rage with them and Andy and we get to really see her be fucking enraged.

Booker, Nile and Andy arrive to save Joe and Nicky. Turns out that what Quynh has been doing the last six months/year/however long since she cursed Andy was gathering henchmen and setting up this torture situation. They kill bad guys cause it’s an action movie, you know how it goes. But Quynh is ready for them, this was all part of her plan when using Joe and Nicky as bait, and now she captures who she was really after: Andy. She captures Andy in some way that separates her from Booker and Nile.

Booker and Nile split up because now they have three people to rescue, and don’t know where any of them are. Booker goes to find Joe and Nicky and Nile goes to find Andy.

Quynh confronts Andy as she’s setting up a situation to torture Andy in some way forever. (I kind of like the idea of it still being at a nuclear facility because nuclear radiation is possibly the most extremely painful way to die there is - but it is also one that doesn't set in immediately. Someone can be exposed to even severe, lethal doses of radiation for up to an hour before it kills them. They'll suffer the whole time, but for plot reasons, it's good it's neither immediate nor reversable.) But if not that, it’s something. She’s set up something that Andy can’t escape from and that can torture her indefinitely. Anyway, Andy is not even trying to escape. She is too caught up in the fact that she is with Quynh again, and she can see the toll her betrayal has taken on Quynh, and she’s worried about Quynh and also hating herself. Quynh is expressing her rage to Andy now, and it is even more personal, and intimate and gut-wrenching than her rage was with Joe and Nicky. Andy is trying to talk to her, trying to apologize, trying to share the immensity of her regret – one thing she is not doing is telling Quynh that she is mortal or that she thought Quynh was dead. She is still determined not to use that to manipulate Quynh – and in any case, at this point, she thinks this is the fate she deserves. She thinks, really, this is the death she’s earned, the death that is right for her after what she did. All she cares about in this moment is conveying how sorry she is to Quynh, and how much she still, no matter what, loves Quynh, before she dies. She loves Quynh even as Quynh is readying to torture her for centuries. Quynh is only further hurt by this – how can she say that? How can Andy claim she loves Quynh when she did what she did? She initiates the torture machine, and we see Andy being exposed to the radiation/whatever the torture machine does, or maybe being put into a more inescapable position to be tortured if not being tortured yet.

Booker saves Joe and Nicky, which gives Nicky something to think about – it’s not enough for him to forgive Booker yet, but he and Booker have an exchange, a meaningful moment of some kind - the audience will be expected to connect that Booker is the one saving them this time, he still even after they intended to exile him, is there for them the moment they need him, something something - and it’s evident that something has shifted slightly in Nicky as they rush to help Nile save Andy.

Nile finds Quynh and Andy moments after the torture situation has started/been put in position to start. She tries to convince Quynh to stop in a bunch of different ways. We get both Nile and Quynh sharing their personal philosophies on forgiveness, and how that forgiveness relates to their immortality. Nile is as hopelessly idealistic and open-hearted as she normally is, and what she says expands on what she says to Booker earlier in the movie. Joe, Nicky and Booker all arrive just in time to hear this speech of Nile’s, and are listening/overhearing as they begin trying to figure out how to free Andy – maybe there’s a thing they gotta smash, a wire they gotta cut, a thing they gotta shut down, whatever. That’s what they’re doing – but they’re there to hear Nile. Nile realizes they’re there, but Quynh doesn’t, and part of the reason Nile makes her speech as long as she does is to buy time for Joe, Nicky and Booker, and to distract Quynh.

Quynh listens – and there’s a moment the viewer sees her considering, even is led to believe that maybe Nile got through to her, but Nile didn’t. Quynh is as determined as ever and does some thing or another to make the torture of Andy more final – presses a thing or maybe closes her in or something. Whatever would work for the setting. Just something to indicate that even after what Nile said, she’s still not backing down. The torture commences.

Finally, Nile uses her last resort, because Joe, Nicky and Booker are still struggling to stop the torture machine. She tells Quynh that Andy lost her immortality.

At first, Quynh doesn’t believe her. Says she’s lying. But then Joe, Nicky and Booker all decide to join Nile in trying to convince her, because what they were trying to do isn’t working. They all say their piece to convince Quynh that Andy lost her immortality – maybe they can even say something that will Make Quynh realize they’re right factually, not just that they’ll believe her. This would have to be something Quynh could visibly have noticed – a scar, maybe, that she got during the year she was being drunk and reckless, or maybe they can argue that surely, she must have noticed that the way Andy fought was different, or something. In any case, one way or another, Quynh believes them/realizes they’re right, and she is completely shellshocked by the horror of what she has done, and she immediately shuts it down, trying to save Andy. She releases Andy from the radiation chamber/torture thing of some kind.

But as Quynh holds Andy in her arms, she realizes it’s too late. Andy is going to die. She holds Andy, and cries, and begs Andy to hold on – then she brings up Andy’s promise. She makes it clear that she forgives Andy, or will forgive her if she lives, and that she just wants to be with Andy forever like they once planned to be.

Andy dies. We witness everyone's grief.

And then, for no reason that anyone can explain in that moment, Andy comes back. She’s regained her immortality. Now, and only now, has the narrative earned a kiss between Quynh and Andy. They kiss and the guard is overjoyed Andy is alive.

The guard are back at the house. We see Andy and Quynh together, happy, and being tender again in some way. Maybe Andy wakes up to see Quynh getting dressed in a room they're sharing, and we get the same moment of Quynh telling Andy there isn’t much she likes about the modern world, but that she likes the clothes.

In another room, or the yard, Joe and Nicky are talking. Nicky is coming around to Booker. It is clear that seeing Quynh forgive Andy, and forgive them too, that what Booker did was put in perspective for Nicky. He is maybe not entirely over it. He is not back to trusting Booker, but he is on the road to forgiveness. I think I would like Nicky to actually state out loud, and for it not just to be something the fandom is aware of and projects on Nicky (like I do in this post), that part of the reason it is so hard for him to forgive is because of who he used to be, way back in the crusades, when he was the one who was doing wrong, and hurting others, and needed penance/to learn his lesson. Through bringing this up, he can express his eternal gratitude for Joe, and how much he loves Joe, and how good Joe is, or how Joe inspires him to be better, or something, because not a day goes by without Nicky thinking about how Joe forgave him. Joe forgave him for doing the unthinkable, and not only forgave him, but fell in love with him. And then we see how this very confession makes Joe love him all the more, how emotional it makes him, and Joe expressing that, and of course then we see them press their foreheads together/kiss/whatever.

We see Nile and Booker together again. Booker overheard Nile’s speech to Quynh, and he’s also been thinking about what she said at the beginning of the movie. They talk about what Booker’s going to do now that everything with Quynh has been handled, and Andy isn’t a flight risk anymore. Booker says something like, “I think I’m going to stick around.” Then I would like it if Booker expresses some of his thoughts relating to what Nile has said, and admitting that it’s changed his point of view, or at least expanded it. Not to such an extreme that he’s happy to live forever, or whatever, but he does say something in the way of making it clear that he was being selfish, but he was also tunneling on his misery, and not seeing everything there is to be thankful for, and to look forward to, and to love about this life – that there’s as much good as bad, and that as long as he has the guard, he won’t be lonely, and so maybe, it’s not so bad if he sticks around a little longer. I think I would like him to point out that he only thought he was lonely before his exile, but once he was exiled he knew actual loneliness, and he's not going to take the guard for granted ever again. Nile will find this all kind of amusing - it's all very no duh to her - but express a sort of “glad to have you” sentiment and probably warn him that he better not ever fuck up again.

The guard are eating together. The question of how Andy’s immortality came back is brought up. Everyone is as confused by it as they are by everything relating to their immortality, but they exchange various thoughts on it. But it’s Copley who proposes a theory (that I headcanon in this post) – The Guard are immortal because of their capacity for good, and their immense will to live and help humanity. This is their purpose, and their immortality exists to help them fulfill it. He defends his argument by pointing out that Andy was losing her faith in humanity, her faith that they were able to do anything to help the world – and then she learned that Quynh was still alive (because Nile had her dream. Since Booker had not been telling her about his dreams of Quynh, she had thought Quynh had died at some point, and Nile's dream had made her realize that actually, Quynh had been alive that whole time.), and finally, that was enough to make her lose her purpose completely. Then Copley would say it was Quynh’s willingness to forgive Andy and be with her again that restored Andy’s purpose, and will to fulfill that purpose – so, Andy regained it. All of them could share their thoughts on it – Nicky would like it, since he believes in destiny, Joe would like it, because he’s a romantic, Nile would like it, because she’s an optimist and she’s “seen it.” Booker would be the doubter – he, after all, has wanted to die and has been a piece of shit who lost his purpose. Maybe Nile would say here that maybe deep down, he never did lose his purpose. Quynh and Andy, I don’t think either of them would agree one way or another, but I think they might exchange a look, leaving something unspoken, maybe some indication that though they aren’t sure they buy it – they can’t really discount it either. Andy had never wanted to live more than when Quynh forgave her, after all, and how else could Quynh have endured 500 hundred years underwater if not because she needed to get back to (or save, so she thought) Andy so they could both keep their promise to each other.

The end! <33333

[where-dreams-dwell]

okay, also? I think Tuah should be bad at fighting. if his whole thing is that he's been off on the fringes keeping out of Andy's little war band & collecting history for millenia, then I think he should fight like your average librarian who hasn't made a point of learning martial arts. why would Tuah have needed to learn to fight? he's literally unkillable, he doesn't *need* to be able to protect himself better than your average (not yusuf) joe

and while we're on the subject? I think Nicky and Joe and Booker should have the space and chance to process that Tuah *isn't* a warrior. that Andy recruited them to be eternal warriors under her command, and even though they're good at it, and even though they believe in the cause (mostly), *they didn't know there was another way all along*. Tuah got to be peaceful, and Andy accepted him & kept his secret. they've had centuries and millenia where over and over again of all the people they could choose to become they've chosen to be Andy's warriors, but Tuah walks in as definitive proof that they didn't *have* to be. what does that do to them? how does that impact the dynamic of the old guard?

[where-dreams-dwell]

final TOG 2 thoughts: there is a much better movie in there somewhere that strips the first immortal / last immortal concept out entirely and allows Quynh to be the big bad. Quynh wanting her immortality to end after centuries of repeated awful dying contrasting w/ Booker (who she's kidnapped and does not immediately release) slowly coming to the realization that he *does* have family to live for and that there's good shit out there in the world if he's willing to look for it. Quynh being convinced that Nile has the power to end her immortality bc she thinks Nile took away Andy's. Quynh trying to box Nile into a corner to do what Quynh wants by threatening Nile's mortal family. Nile having to face her mortal family after letting them believe she's dead, having to let the life & family she's left behind and the life & family she's chosen come together.

and then on the final showdown, Nile and Andy facing off against Quynh together. Quynh deals Andy a mortal wound; Nile deals Quynh one. Quynh still heals. it turns out her obsession with Nile was always wrong; Andy lost her immortality because she stopped *believing* in the life she was living. Quynh in angry hateful tears begging a dying Andy to come back, it's Quynh who's supposed to be dying. Andy quipping, "I always go first" and then dying

and then if you want a happy ending: Andy coming back after. Andy regaining her immortality *because* she cherishes her life and believes in what she does and isn't ready to end yet. Andy and Nile bringing Quynh back into the fold. Andy and Nile and Quynh and Booker and Nicky and Joe *healing* together

do you see my vision

[where-dreams-dwell]

Been thinking about this all day, and I think the main thing this movie failed to understand about itself is this: the immortality was supposed to be the premise, not the plot.

Like, the immortality piece fuels the villains in the first film, but the unknowability of it is part of the point. It’s a dreadful curse, to outlive all your loved ones. Or, it’s a powerful gift, to grow and nurture a relationship for centuries on end. Or, it’s a complicated responsibility, a way you are uniquely positioned to help make the world a better place, and how much of that mantle should you take on? It’s the premise, the vessel through which the themes and characters can be explored.

The point was never to find out the “rules” and drop a bunch of lore about it. This movie took the premise and made it the plot, and that I think was its cardinal mistake.

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You know what I've thought about it more and I would have also been happy if Materialists had gone the LaLa Land route of 'people who just weren't right for one another but had huge impacts on each others lives'.

Lucy runs into John when new love might be happening (Harry) and is forced to realise how she treated John in their 20's has deeply impacted both of them. Deep conversations between the two (like in Past Lives, Celine Song, I sobbed like a baby) make Lucy realise how much self loathing and shame she's been carrying since leaving John. She never thought she'd be the person who cared about money but rejecting his proposal because she was scared they couldn't afford a life together changed her and she has become cynical and pragmatic as a defence mechanism; if I am the kind of person who could leave someone like that then I might as well embody that attitude.

Plus a conversation on how financial insecurity impacted their relationship before; we had so few moments of happiness because we were always waiting for the next cost to hit, we couldn't have an evening off because we couldn't afford it, etc. Everything was stacked against us and its not just our fault that it didn't work.

But now she's reminded how much she is capable of love and how disappointed her 20 yr old self (optimistic, hopeful) would be in who she's become, she's able to open up with Harry and admit she has gone too far and lost herself in the matchmaking pragmatism. And Harry (contrary to Lucy) genuinely cares about her despite her not fitting a typical checklist, has been trying to make that real connection but keeps being stonewalled by Lucy's cynical approach, and is ready to be venerable with her. Harry was terrified of not measuring up to this checklist Lucy has and of doing something accidentally that would make her leave, but now they can show their imperfections to one another.

That closing LALA scene of them both being proud of one another for achieving their dreams even if it happened without the other - yeah gimmie that with Lucy and John; her and Harry go to see Johns big break movie (that he was auditioning for when they reconnected) and we see that Lucy has decided to publish a book (or something else financially risky that the cynical her wouldn't have allowed herself to try), and they can be happy for one another despite life taking them on different paths.

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Why did Materialists go with that plot when a Persuasion modern retelling (a la Clueless/Emma) was right there....?!

Give me Lucy and John were madly in love in their 20's but Lucy was convinced to call it off because a life with John-the-struggling-actor would have no security. A decade later he's back and moderately successful, everyone is fawning over him, and he seems completely over their break up (no hard feelings, we were so young, look how well we both did on our own) and she is devastated but doesn't think she has the right to be upset as she is the one who left him.

As they keep bumping into one another around New York deep conversations between the two (Celine Songs speciality) make Lucy appreciate how cynical she's become since they were together and remember how strongly she once felt. The whole time she's always having to help out those around her and solve their relationship problems, making her realise she isn't doing anything for herself or prioritising her own happiness. With a new love sniffing around (Harry) she is debating choosing money once again but realises she couldn't live with herself if she made another choice based on pragmatism and security. Then at the 11th hour John desperately reveals that he never got over her and wants to try again.

Like the plot writes itself, please!

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F1 The Movie: Kate - Competence and Agency *spoilers*

The F1 Movie very subtly implies that Kate isn't good at her job and it is kind of pissing me off in hindsight.

She's said to be great in her role as Technical Director, the first woman in the role in the history of F1, and her motivation is stated as proving people who doubted her wrong, but they kind of do everything to show her work isn't valuable or relevant, she's uncommitted and easily swayed, and her few bold actions are at the bidding of others.

Firstly the scene when Sonny grabs her for a drink from the wind tunnel: she's gathering data on air flow and dynamics for the car but Sonny's pointed questions imply that this data gathering is inaccurate and not as useful as she is implying it to be. 'Can it replicate dirty air from a lead car' 'No'; 'Can it model air in a corner' 'No'; ' Can it track air in poor weather conditions' 'No'; 'So it can only track free air on a straight track?' 'That's right'. Implication; this tech and data gathering is not useful for real life F1 scenarios, and your contribution by extension is not as significant or powerful as your title may imply to the viewer. The fact he immediately asks her to leave the booth and come for a drink is the nail in the coffin - none of this is urgent or necessary but my questions are. And then the urgent question she left work for? 'Why did you join F1?'. Is that modelling continuing on while she's out or has it been left uncompleted while she had a pint?

What could have helped this set up? A line back from Kate to combat the relevant of Sonny's impressions, like 'the last time you drove one of these they were x times slower, x times heavier and couldn't corner for shit. Drivers are basically piloting rockets now so forgive me if your opinion on aerodynamics doesn't keep me up at night '. And when he asks her to step out for an urgent question? 'How urgent?' 'I can't say here' 'Well I'm off in an hour so it'll have to wait for then' 'You can't just step out now?' 'Not for you'. Giver her some professional integrity and pride in her work God Damn It!

Then the redesign itself. Sonny wants the floor of the car redesigned so it can benefit from the turbulent or 'dirty' air when you're behind another car. This isn't rocket science, dirty air has been a talking point in F1 for 3+ years now so please could we have a line to explain why the Technical Director hasn't already considered this? Why would someone who hasn't driven an F1 car in 30 years be able to suggest a beneficial upgrade to a modern F1 car which the Technical Director and team of engineer's who live and breath this have missed? The only way it works is if Sonny brings something in from his other racing that they wouldn't know, an out of the box experience that changes the game.

A couple of lines could have done it; 'Yes we considered that in 2021 but ---- meant it never got off the ground. The cost in the straights was too great.' 'Yeah the guys I raced for in Daytona had a similar issue, did you try ---?'' How did they compensate for ---?' ' I don't know but I can get them on the phone for you if you want'. Then Sonny's strange life experience is actually beneficial to the team, and Kate is shown to have missed this opportunity simply because no one in F1 would have known of a fix for this issue from another league.

Additionally Kate talks a big talk about not redesigning the car on Sonny's advice as he is so new to the team, throwing out the phrase 'until you've actually finished a race' before she will listen to his suggestions. She holds firm to his charm and charisma, showing she's not a pushover just going to jump when he asks and trust his word out the gate; this is great call for the only real female character in the entire movie. But lo and behold we see Sonny finish 1 race and Kate is shown working overtime into the night to completely redesign the car floor. In F1 you only get so much development allowed during the season, and with fixed budgets every change eats into your allowance; you get penalized if you go over in any way and yet here Kate is suggesting an overhaul on the say so of a new untested driver who's only race performance is currently being investigated for causing so many incidents. Like stick to your guns for a little bit longer please!

Then one of Kates most key scenes and actions in the whole movie is when she tricks the two drivers into drinks and cards to bond with one another, trying to solve the team dynamics and get them on the same page ahead of a huge race. And its a mess.

Well, firstly she might as well have walked away to get a drink in this scene for all she contributed to it and I actually might have preferred if she had after the initial premise and card playing montage. It would have made the conversation between the two drivers feel more personal and private, a lowering of defences and meeting halfway for them both while no one is looking at them. Think of Roy and Jamie in Season 1 Ted Lasso for the perfect example of this; Ted (their manager) sets up a shared table at the charity dinner to get them to talk but they argue, then Ted quietly prompts Roy to be the bigger person and the two have a private, honest conversation about how they view one another and can try to work together for the good of the team. That is how its done.

Instead Kate is laser focused on them both from across the table, providing despairing looks and eye rolls to punctuate their quips. It makes their conversation feel performative and harder to believe that both characters (who have been shown as emotionally closed off prior to this) would open up this way not just with one another but also this colleague who neither know well.

Finally the scene is implied to have worked and made the two see eye to eye ahead of the race the next day, so success, well done and great idea Kate! But no, its then revealed that the whole thing was Rubens (the team owners) idea and Kate was just doing as he suggested.

Never mind that we see Kate witness the drivers argument and physical fight from the previous race and look concerned in the background. Never mind Kate has been the character shown to have been getting closer to Sonny, opening up about her backstory and openly caring about his. No all that set up and emotional work (i.e. this character cares about Sonny, is worried about him and her team, is trying to fix a problem and help out a possible love interest) lets just throw it out and say that Ruben, who hasn't been seen inside the garage for a good few scenes, has suggested this dinner to solve the issue. To return to Ted Lasso its as if Ted has revealed Rebecca (the team owner) had suggested the charity dinner shared table scheme when he was the one noticing friction between players.

Add this to the fact that the only other female character, the pit crew machinic, is also being written as struggling and making mistakes in their job and the overall picture isn't flattering. Plus it feels like they have been made less competent to allow Sonny to feel more; Jodie makes a mistake with a wheel gun so that Sonny can reassure her its okay, Kate misses a design opportunity so Sonny can suggest one.

Overall its just so frustrating that they did try and make this F1 team more inclusive which is the direction F1 as a sport is generally heading, albeit kicking and screaming, and did it so badly. In the last few years we have had the first female Race Engineers, Head Mechanics, Pit Crew members, Head Strategists and more. But if you have a character to (partially) give that exposure and then undermine their competency in their role throughout their story, is it worth their addition or should it have stayed as a male role all along?

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Okay I’m finally getting into The Buccaneers because NGL that season 2 trailer with the emotional Good Luck Babe soundtrack was poetry but…

Why oh why have they made the main girl sooo unlikable in her handling of these men and society? I’m 6 episodes in and argh…!

Okay so up until Nan accepts Theo’s second proposal (like Eps 1-3) I was so on board with everything and loved the issues they were setting up. The one man who Nan felt she could trust with a secret she didn’t think was a big deal (because she’s young and naive, and both scorns society while enjoying being part of it) who immediately reacted badly and now can hold this over her head is the best friend of her fiancé?! Incredible, love that for them.

The eligible Duke who hates being hunted for his title and wants to be known for who he is and not what, then deciding to propose to the American who treated him like a normal man and who no one else saw as eligible? Plus the duke is actually super sweet and wants Nan to truly chose this life with him despite it being A Lot and Not For Everyone? Fantastic, gimmie 10 more eps of them together (though I wish they’d managed a few more secret interactions before the reveal).

And finally Nan is kind of the usually overlooked less-interesting one of the group and now she is having to both ask herself if she would enjoy a life where she is a more central figure (and that it’s not wrong to want that) and that these other girls (a mainly Conchie and Gennie) are having to realise they assumed Nan would only play a supporting role in their new lives and now that may not be the case? Love a wall-flower becomes main girl moment, I was yelling at the screen when Nan went off at Conchie at Tintagel, but again I wanted her to also corner Gennie and give her an ‘okay fine you clearly don’t want to talk to me but I’m hurt you didn’t invite me to your wedding, I know you better than this and am worried about you, but I’ll always be your sister first so let’s move past this’ little speech.

But they fucked up too many plot points which could have been juicier.

They made the reveal of Guys fortune hunting both non-personal and miss-represented it. Okay he was in New York for a rich wife but that was pre-Nan and kind of understandable, in the same way the American Girls are in London looking for titles. The main concern Nan should have, which should have been revealed or Guy should have confessed to was that he was still planning to propose to her for her money right up until she told him she was illegitimate. He may have liked her in Ep1+2 but it was her money which was the main reason he would have proposed to her then. It’s why his father gave him the ring and supported the whole thing. If she is going to get hurt by anyone judging her for her birth then Guy decided not to propose to her because of it (because he was planning to use her and now that was a riskier choice) while Theo accepted it seconds after learning about it.

And yes the circumstances and context impact this: Theo is privileged enough to be able to say that it doesn’t matter to him while Guy is operating from a desperate position. But then that too could have been a ‘learning moment’ for Nan: convention and society can more easily be ignored from a position of privilege and power, otherwise the consequences are severe. So to expect someone to agree to one without the other is very naive.

Then Theo’s behaviour during the Bonfire Party is see as horrendous by Nan even though Guy isn’t being a shining beacon of equality. When they talk of chopping firewood or cooking Guy doesn’t say ‘of course the girls can do either if they want’. Or when they’re talking about Jean and Nan takes issue to her being described like a possession: Guy was just talking about her like that to Theo, asking about passing her off. Nan is unfair to Theo here and completely forgiving to Guy despite him also having preconceived ideas but the writers don’t give her chance to see these moments. It would have been far better for her to see both romantic interests have these ideas and rail against them, then complain to the girls about society and women (a la Joe March) before one of them (have to say my preference is Theo) came and apologise to Nan and vowed to be better afterwards. Because otherwise it just looks like Theo getting the raw end of the deal and bettering himself for the women he loves while she doesn’t hold her actual love to account.

And oh my god Nans secret! When it comes to Nans illegitimacy being revealed she ends Ep 6 claiming she will be without shame and accept her birth proudly, then her fiancé declares seconds later that he too accepts and loves her. She won’t loose *anything* from this huge revelation; she will still marry well, have all her friends, and now she isn’t lying to Theo or able to be blackmailed. The sword of Damocles thats been hanging over her since Ep 2 is gone and Nan has won; this is an unheard of success!

Instead the very next Ep opens with Nan disappointed that people are judging her for her birth (despite her sister and mother both warning her this would happen, and it being the main reason the Dowager was breaking the engagement), angry at Theo what she is only accepted because they are engaged and not for her own merit (when she has been in London less than 1 year and most of that time has been engaged to him plus we haven’t seen one scene of her making friends outside of the established group), and hurt that Theo is taking a moment to adjust to this new normal of people judging him (he stated that he would stand by her and endure this together not that there would be nothing for them to endure). The final disappointment is that she is once again ashamed of herself, just more openly now. What was the fucking point?!

It would have been far better to have her trying to be confident in the face of these whispers, trying to stand by Theo and work for acceptance now her secret is out, trying to make connections despite people shunning her and then have a revelation at the end of the episode that this is all so much harder than she ever thought it would be and she’s struggling. That she has been naive about how serious her birth was and that what Theo is doing by standing by her is actually a huge fucking deal. Because by making the secret something Nan views as ‘no big deal’ and a silly thing for people to get hung up on she also devalues the bravery and love for her in Theo’s actions by remaining engaged to her and facing backlash for their relationship.

Maybe it’s just been too long since I’ve had to watch ‘teen’ miscommunication love stories. But then again it’s still captivating and frustrating and enraging in all the best ways in other media so I’m mainly just disappointed because so much of this is Grade A daytime-drama is being wasted.

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‘Sometimes the little pleasures in life are load bearing’

Sometimes little pleasures in life are loadbearing. Whenever someone is like "If you'd just give up tea and coffee and sugar and--" im like I'll stop you right there. Because if you finish that sentence i am going to kill everyone in this building and then myself. If i have to face the horrors of the world without my little jar of caramel flavoured instant coffee i am going to go full American Psycho. Believe it or not, my main priority in life is not to have perfect teeth or be an Olympic athlete or look like a supermodel, but to actually enjoy living, because I spent far too long not doing that and it royally sucked. And boy, some people don't like hearing that. Particularly dentists

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Chaotic writing prompt: the Cinderella fairytale as a lavender marriage

Gay Prince Charming unable to marry his love, and a Cindy who has yet to meet her one true love but knows it won’t be a man. Cindy who just wants to escape her shitty life for one night, and the prince who’s looking to make the best of having to marry, while praying his wife will at least be bearable.

Cindy makes it clear to the prince while they’re dancing that she’s not here for him, meanwhile he’s stunned by her entrance, her glass shoes and what does she mean her coach is technically a pumpkin…? She runs at midnight and the prince’s lover is fascinated by her, really honey didn’t you ask her any questions when you were dancing, I need the tea, you have to find her

A prince who jumps at the PR opportunity looking for a star crossed love will bring, plus she is the only woman he enjoyed talking to. Cindy who happy agrees to play the beard, while having the power to improve the lives of her subjects and of course she wouldn’t dream of disliking the princes advisor and best friend, don’t be silly they’re like brothers..

Over the years their love story is told far and wide, someone’s even writing a play about it, and at home in the palace the King, the Queen and the King’s Lover lounge about their shared sitting room, with separate doors to their own bedrooms, and plan how they’re going to introduce ideas like workers rights and weekend’s to their council.

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The Elephant and the Chisel

For my whole life I've thought of myself as a statue, but I didn't know it until today. Until someone made a comment about a skinny girl inside who'll never arrive and I thought wait, I've thought that before.

I realized that is how I've been viewing myself and my body. That inside of me there is a more beautiful version of myself just waiting to be free, and if I can only chip away enough I can free her. If I can find the right creams and gels, the right clothes and poses, stop eating the wrong foods, if I can find the right exercises and do them for long enough, no longer, longer still...eventually this inner me, the beautiful woman who I'm waiting to be, will be revealed.

All I must do is chip away at the extraneous. Remove those parts society tells me I shouldn't have or don't need. That let me down or spoil the whole. My uneven skin tone. My heavy frame. My poor posture. My bad dress sense. My buck teeth. My frizzy hair.

Don't worry there's a cream for that. What's your skin care routine? You should add this one, once a month, it helps tighten your face. And this one, once a week to make it plump. And this one, everyday to smooth the tone.

And your hair. Have you tried this brush or that shampoo? No? But it can fix that issue, so and so swears by it, honestly look at the reviews.

Where do you work out? Do you work out? How do you work out? Oh you haven't tried this, you simply must, its essential to tone your arms. You should add that to your leg day, it really helps with you butt. Add this, stop that, change everything.

Have I chipped enough away yet? Can you see her, the beauty stuck within me? I know she's there. The world has told me she will come if I just do this right. If I do all the right things, in the right way, then eventually that striking, beautiful woman will be set free. Finally.

And that is what I've been told I should dedicate my life to, all of my precious and limited spare time, removing parts of myself. Chipping and cutting and picking and prying until finally someone will say 'voila! There she is. We always knew you could be beautiful!'

'There was always an elephant inside the rock, I just removed the parts that weren't'. How did those parts feel, to be torn from their whole? Told they were getting in the way. Told they spoilt the view?