wondersofspite

[wondersofspite]

More and more the show declines into feeling like satirized fanfiction of itself, because it is written like a satirized fanfiction.

Build-up is the backbone of nearly every climax. If you want the payoff to be good as it gets, you gotta get us to care first. That’s one of the standing differences between fanfiction and media. One field of work has to build everything up from the ground - characters, plotlines, themes - but the other? Already geared up from the beginning line. The biggest issue you have to worry about is typos, prudish/diehard commenters, how much nights your gonna waste on the writing and potentially mischaracterizing a character. You get what I mean? Fanfiction is the fun sand ground you could make any castles, house and statues out of your whims, compared to the more inflexible, logical, time demanding, money draining subject like serialized media. In fanfiction, you can get away with a lot of stuff you won’t in the star business.

One of those big factors are already having pre-established characters. Which is also one of Helluva Boss’s biggest problem.

I would state again this is very much my own opinion, but any relationship and conflict that exists in Helluva feels like one-shot fanfics running on 2000 word count limit. Everything happens and ends in the same episode. 2 season in, and there is no connections made with anything that happened in past episodes. New shit upon new shit. How can I care about any of these character and their issues, when the series is constantly on it’s toes, trying to found the next cool thing to dangle in front of me as if trying to distract me like some child? This is comparable to an AU fic where the author is just tossing everything they found interesting in it rather then telling something with it. Why can’t the pace just relax for once? Where’s the comedic, Office-like, dysfunctional found family we’ve been promised? (The last one is more me bitching but. You feel me?)

It feels almost desperate how progressively, the show gets worse and worse with it’s balance of reality and fanfictioness (Stolas going from Medusa to begin beaten by an imp, Millie’s unlredictable strength scale etc. The tongue in cheek “damsel tied to train rails” point out felt more like insecure writers trying to cover their asses than anything worth a laugh). It breaks it’s own rule every day just for fan service: The character doesn’t live inside the world, the world lives for the characters. And unless you’re Blitzo or Moxxie, your not going to get any agency independent from those two for a long time. Everything you do is either a joke or to forward the plot.

The show treats all it’s characters and relatonships like something you should have had an pre-existing knowledge of, then promptly mold and twisted it every new episode. The pace felt like the writers were held at gunpoint to churn in as much as intrigue possible in 10 minutes. Action upon action: When’s it simply gonna sit and tell story instead of constantly throwing plot points at the audiences? Your show won’t instantly get smitten by gods and die if it doesn’t have drama in it everytime, Viv.

All of these issues reek of fanfic. Not even the good kind. It’s just a chaotic, unplanned spectacle caught in live

[wondersofspite]

Hello! A lot of you had positive responses to my last post, so here I’ll be writing my personal rewrites of the I.M.P. Crew (Sorry this took so long, I got side-tracked this weekend <:]). For a reminder of what my redesigns looked like, you can find them Here. I’m gonna go from left to right and start with the first crew member:

Mildred (or Millie)

I did a lot of reworking around Mildred since a majority of her characterization is basically nonexistent, so I gave her a personality with a lot of potential and complexity that’s on par with her male crew members.

Mildred comes from a very low-income, Southern family in the Wrath Ring. She grew up on a barn with her parents and several other siblings, making her essentially a middle child. She worked on their farm for most of her life as a hand and delivery girl to send fresh produce to buyers and the local market. It was like this for some time until the family business had gone dry due to some messy ties with the upper-class that resulted in them going into poverty. Wanting to help her family and support them financially Mildred left to go find work elsewhere, in which she meets Blitzo and is hired onto the I.M.P. team.

She’s very hard-working, a bit brutish but has a heart of gold, and is blunt and out-spoken. She’s not very sophisticated but has a lot of Wisdom to her and gives some great advice to Loona as the only other woman in the workplace, and someone for Loona to look up to in times of need. She gets along great with everyone except Moxxie, who she butts heads with constantly due to their conflicting personalities and backgrounds. Speaking of Moxxie, he’s next on the list.

Moxandicus (Moxxie)

Moxxie was an Imp born into the wealthier part of Imp society, basically making him the equivalent of your typical “uptight, sophisticated rich boy”. His family comes from a line of competitive businessmen, none of that mafia mumbo-jumbo, though they probably do have some loose ties to them in some way. Moxxie is the odd-one-out of his family, rather than taking an interest in the family business, instead finds his passion in Mortals History (this man is so infatuated with Humans culture its crazy). Because of this, his family looked at him more as a nuisance “wasting his time on silly hobbies”, and basically cut him off from his wealth until he “proved himself worthy” of being welcomed back into the family. Now broke and nowhere to go, Moxxie finds himself looking for work, where he meets Blitzo and joins I.M.P.

I imagine my Moxxie has a very similar personality to the one if the show, except he’s more educated, calculating, snooty and uptight, and less of.. I don’t know how to put this— coward? Butt of the joke? You get what I mean. He’s essentially the straight man and voice of reason for the group, and is the one who usually has to get them out of their pickles when working. He doesn’t have a lot of street smarts and is less willing to get his hands dirty compared to everyone else. Like I said earlier he clashes a lot with Millie and frequently questions Blitzo’s authority, but most of the time doesn’t argue back on the count of that’s his boss. He’s indifferent towards Loona, though questions why a teenager is working for them in the first place.

Blitz(o)

A lot of Blitz’s backstory and personality is mostly the same: Grew up in the circus in the Pride Ring, left after wanting to seek more in life prove to everyone someone from his social class can make it big in the world, yadayadayada. However I did rewrite some things that I believed wold make his character a lot better/more tolerable:

He’s still on good terms with his sister, they’re just really busy all the time so they don’t have a lot of time to talk or see each other (I’m so sick of this dude not having at LEAST one good relationship).

He and Verosika are still on bad terms due to their messy break-up, though I want to believe Blitzo regrets and sometimes even misses her and the actions that led to their falling out, though due to his pride refuses to admit it out loud.

None of that weird “sexually harassing my coworkers” shit. That was weird and gross.

I gave him a personality that’s more attuned to “if Weird Al was a bounty hunter who grew up in the circus”. He was always some silly little guy to me. The man grew up in a circus, I’d expect him to be a little clowned down if you get what I’m sayin’.

His relationship with Loona is typically the same. He adopted her when she was around 13-14 and has been raising her ever since as his teenage daughter (None of that weird “treating hellhounds like literal peta thing that was weird and confusing). He makes her work as their secretary and “social media manager” as a way to earn a weekly allowance and also “the kids are hip with it she’ll do wonders for us promotionally”. She does not, he just refuses to admit it.

Leona (Loona)

I’ve done a lot of reworking for Loona as well, same reasons as Millie. Istg they do not know how to wrote female characters.

Loona is a hellhound born from the Sloth Ring. She doesn’t know a lot of her background, but was raised in foster care for a small portion of her life until Blitzo took her in when she hit her teenage years. Before that however she took a liking towards astrology and magic and would constantly read about it in her formative years. When she began living with Blitz she began attending schooling to further learn about magic and how to translate older works, which is how she’s able to use Stolas’ book for the IMP team to use. She get’s teased on a lot in school for being one of the only Hellhounds there, which causes her to feel insecure about herself and shut in from people including Blitz.

Loona’s a very quiet, closed-off teenager (16-17), who’s very much in that “going through a phase” part of growing up. She’s very insecure about herself and is easily-impressionable, which is why she looks up to Millie so much, since she’s cool and is the only other girl in the office space to talk to. Loona’s relationship with Blitz is the same, except she actually acts like a teenager and not an abusive asshole. She wants to prove to herself that she’s not some “loser nobody” and can actually do magic and make friends with other teens her age.

And that’s it. Sorry it was so long I had a lot to say lol. If you have further questions, direct them to my ask box.

[wondersofspite]

Hey. Hi. Hello, guess who decided to do Helluva Boss redesigns for the I.M.P. cast. Some mutuals form a server encouraged me to do these and it was a fun design exercise, and I'm super happy with the outcome. I'm planning on doing the side characters/villains since I'm on break, so stick around for that.

[wondersofspite]

Ngl I'd love to see those characters considered "irredeemable" by the fandom and show to have those sympathetic backstories/general sympathetic parts to them without redemption arcs involved. Like, if Stella and Andrealphus had a normal, healthy brother-sister relationship or if Valentino was a loving father. The thing about abusers is that they're not like that to every person around them. Yes, there's some that are generally unpleasant to be around but that doesn't negate that abusive people can't have friends or loves ones. However, and most importantly, it's not some kind of proof that they're a good person that they're kind to these other people. As an abuse survivor, it's so wild to experience those normal interactions and moments and I think it should be a part of more stories involving abuse.

unfortunately like we said before, if the show made its abusive characters sympathetic, then there's no difference between them and the protagonists.

which of course, could open up some interesting ideas (something that Berserk and Dorohedoro does) but no lmao.

But you're completely right, which is why im kind of frustrated but also not surprised that despite being a survivor herself, vivzie allows no nuance with her more problematic characters. it's also why im not surprised a lot of fans who admit to be victims will eat this slop up and tear apart people who criticize this type of writing.

we can't look at abusers as irredeemable evil people who love violence and chaos and abusing vulnerable people. i think most abusers, or hell, i think ALL abusers don't have this level of 2-dimensional characteristics to them.

abusers are not randos who come into your life and make your life hell. abusers are your mom who makes your favorite breakfast. that guy in school your friends love to hang out with. that boss that loves their wife and kids. abusers are messy, complicated people. abusers are people that can feel shame, regret and guilt. abusers may suffer from trauma. abusers may love you. abusers may not even know they're being abusive.

a lot of victims, struggle with that. and as a victim myself i completely emphasize and understand. its so easy to look at abusers as people who are unempathetic monsters with no sense of kindness and remorse, because abuse is always an unjustified act of cruelty. this is why so many victims often struggle with recognizing their own abuse, because to grasp that abuse means you have to grasp that someone in your life, someone that you've loved and cared about, is hurting you.

the fact that we could have seen this messy, complicated exploration of how far people will go when there's no consequences and we're denied it is frustrating. vivziepop is writing the fantasy story victims tell themselves to cope with their own trauma. that your abusers hate you. that they're evil people. that they're irredeemable and incapable of becoming better people. we're not allowed to see the scary truth that abusers can be both earnestly kind, and earnestly cruel.

vivziepop claims her characters are messy and complicated but they're not. they're just people with flaws that you're supposed to defend and root for. its black and white storytelling pretending that its coated in grey.

[wondersofspite]

Yeah i can say i know some trans people like the idea angeldust was giving himself boobs alone, but as a nonbinary person myself its specifically the "so straight men will fuck him" implying he doesnt actually care for having boobs that makes me kinda disappointed because of how it leans into the stereotype of "trans people and crossdressers are actually just gay people trying to trick straights into sleeping with them!" which is a very real stereotype and it makes it not very cool.

Right. I honestly don’t think this was malice on Vivzie’s part, she’s just very weird to her feminine gay men

[wondersofspite]

(Based on another post.)

Ok… I was looking at the designs and-

Has anyone realized how weird the racial implications of Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss with the main characters) are?

I know someone else has already talked about this-

But Charlie Morningstar is clearly white coded. The “corrupt souls” she has to “save” are clearly poc coded or are directly poc. The “villains” of the show are MOSTLY poc with Velvet being confirmed as poc indirectly by Vivziepop not long ago and Valentino was confirmed to be hispanic too. It gets off “white savior” vibes along with the fact that 1. Theres a creole character who practices voodoo who’s stereotyped as a cann^bal 2. There being a hispanic poc (Valentino) who’s also shown to be highly aggressive, to a character thats Italian: a ethnicity thats considered as “white” in many places. Hell! Niffy is even Japanese, and she was drawn as yellow 100% of the time until just recently.

They also have this thing where theres something i’d like to call “Greywashing”: Where Vivziepop deliberately avoids using the color brown, and instead makes all of her poc (No, “Coco” doesnt count shes from another artist. This is only about the main designer.) a lighter shade of grey, giving the illusion of brown skin without actually making them brown. While Vivziepop gave Charlie a peach-like skin tone. So its clearly not because they’re demons but something else entirely.

Keep reading

[wondersofspite]

i think one of my main issues with hazbin is how lame it is. who says alastor cant have a taxidermied deer head in place of a human head and also sold his soul to an eldritch entity in exchange for power. why cant charlie be a goatlike monstrosity of a demon and use the hotel as an alternative afterlife as opposed to heaven or hell. why arent the imps more animallike, id kill for a eel blitzo or a goat millie. if viv wants edgy furries shes gotta go big or go home, cause hazbin is edgy but not in the fun way.

[wondersofspite]

The royalty comment is one epitome of why the show not explaining Stella’s backstory/character felt like a huge flaw. Like. Historically, upper class women were very susceptible to abuse, both in childhood and adulthood: Especially in cases of Arranged Marriage, where the husband typically has complete financial control over them.

There is so much vagueness and weird constantly shifting power imbalances and implications that altogether I never really get the political perspective upon their relationship since the show purely focuses on the emotional (and lack there of it, really). Divorce is apparently a big scandal, but I don’t feel the weight of consequences of this. Divorce in general is ostracized by society, but the upper society must react even more harshly at this, right? The show itself shoves it down your throat about oh! Oh how scandalous! How forbidden! But switch Stolas and Stella to an middle class status and there won’t be next to no big thematic changes.

I’m a bitch for good worldbuilding, and it physically hurts of how evasive the show is about it’s monarch system and boundaries. Unintentional or not, Stella’s a perfect pick to explore how things work in the royal side of things and illustrate just how grave/serious/silently agreed upon/etc things are in the HH universe and the owl family situation as a whole. Will the divorce affect Octavia’s future? How important is reputation? Is Stella overreactive or is status really that important? Will they actually face legal/financial/any physical punishment for it? (Begin disowned, marked as not interact at all cost in balls and business, etc), is there a goddamn another type of demon in Goetia that isn’t a bird?

I like how “it’s in hell” is an excuse that applies to every single character except stella. Suddenly a character being raised in an environment where violence and cruelty is encouraged is now an irredeemable act.

It’s almost as if making your characters child murderers (who literally justify killing innocent people) and then expecting people to see an abuser as irredeemable is kind of bad writing.

[wondersofspite]

I have to say also: it’s so weird how the shit Angel Dust’s has to do to survive is played for laughs right? Like it’s one thing to make him obsessed with sex, but to imply that he literally only does this so that his abusive rapist pimp doesn’t literally kill him is more distressing than humorous?

I’m not thinking “lol Angel dust is such a horny slut” I think “Jesus Christ Angel dust has to find clients non stop with barely any breaks or else his pimp will threaten him with literal murder”.

[wondersofspite]

I love how their redesigned version. Easier on the eyes and actually creative

These are alright. If you asked me if I liked these better than the OGs, the answer would be no though

[wondersofspite]

Hazbin's designs look terrible in general but what bothers me the most is the missed opportunity for them to use historically accurate fashion in the designs

It would've made the characters look unique and given us a visual glimpse of their background

[wondersofspite]

Gustave Dore

[wondersofspite]

It is good for the soul to microdose being a hater....so long as one remembers to always macrodose minding ones own business....

[wondersofspite]

If your Hazbin theory is true, do you think the show could go the direction that Charlie might be forced to learn more about her guests and how to properly manage the hotel?

I think it would vary a lot on how the idea would be executed.

What I spoke of was a simple theory: An concept, and an abstract one at that. While I do mention some sketchy ideas and narrative plots, these are the middle-ground sort of things. Legitimately writing, conceptualizing and fully detailing it is a whooole can of worms. I am but an amateur, most things I've written are largely one-shots, and even the simple idea of novella-length plotlines scares me, ha!

But for sake of the ask, I think it would be interesting if it did... and didn't

It depends on a lot of what themes and lessons the show want to convey. Charlie learning to be a better manager, becoming more understanding of others' struggles and keeping the band together won't necessarily mean a happy/optimistic ending. Nor is the idea of everybody disbanding and Charlie learning nothing. Next to the intent and purpose of the story, the tune is second in importance.

What is Hazbin trying to say? About no matter how much things you sacrifice/offer in an attempt to help, how really helpful is it, if it does no good for anybody in the end? Or that there are some people you just can't help, that place like Hell exists for a reason? What lesson, what purpose?

[wondersofspite]

another long post

I think in a general sense people are losing a lot of media-literacy, and both sides of the hb defenders and the hb critics tend to misinterpret a lot of things. I’m not above misinterpretation, like ever, I just feel like there’s an overwhelming amount of people who take something as the complete wrong way without realizing it, even though I myself can still see what they mean because it’s an understandably easy slip up.

I’ve seen people bring up on both sides that Stolas’s writing for s2 e1 was inconsistent with him claiming he has an excellent memory and being able to recognize somebody he met once 25 years ago - the inconsistency they like to bring up is the writers not paying attention to their own dialogue by having Stolas being able to remember Blitzo, and then backpedal and say “I hardly even remember your name” and then turn back around and say “didn’t it have an ‘o’ at the end of it? Like a clown name?” and what I’ve seen people say is that it’s sloppy writing.

It’s actually not, and while I don’t like defending Stolas, I can’t just sit and agree with people who don’t know such a common trope as backpedaling. Like a perfect example of this would be Sam Sparks from cloudy with a chance of meatballs, or jesus christ, the fuckin angry mob from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Both of these instances we have characters claim something or do something, and then back away from it when they either are exposed for it, or are paranoid about a second party’s reaction to it. In Sam’s case, her continually pretending to be an airhead when she’s in fact very intelligent comes from a fear of neglect and ridicule she never could escape from unless she was an idiot and pretended to be as unpassionate as everyone else in the room. In the crowd in the Holy Grail’s defense, they dressed up a woman they claimed to be a witch, and when she called them on their bullshit, they admitted they had added onto her to make it more believable and an easier way to burn somebody they wanted burned. (I can’t believe I have to defend two silly movies to discuss literacy and the simple concept of backpedaling but I wouldn’t feel the need to if people just paid attention in their literature classes.)

With that context, Stolas being the one to instigate a sexual desire he’s (I guess) harbored in his 25+ years in a suffocating closet with his “only friend”, him being suddenly reciprocated and introduced to instead of a fantasy he can control, a reality in which he can’t control the opposite party, he panics. Once he’s lost what little control he had, he gets flustered and backpedals has hard as he can as he tries to A) process these feelings in real time, and B) handle the idea of consequences that could come from acting in real life, than acting in his head.

I will not argue that his doubts should not have been ignored in Blitzo’s case, but the writers were desperate to give Blitzo some blame where in reality he really shouldn’t have had any. The writing wasn’t sloppy because Stolas was panicking, the writing was sloppy because the writers wanted Stolas and Blitzo to meet as kids regardless if it worked or not, it was sloppy because they even bothered to rekindle a scene from the pilot for the sake of a silly gag even though it now does not work with what they’ve done with their own show, it was sloppy because god forbid they make Stolas into an antagonist and even bring up the fact that that stupid fucking owl is as privileged as they come and yet he’s the one we’re being practically begged to sympathize with.

I sympathize with him in the sense he’s comphet, or forced into a loveless young marriage for the direct and complete result he is to have a child whether he wants one or not. I sympathize that he was verbally and physically abused. I sympathize with him as much as I can. But I do not sympathize with an upper class demon who fetishizes the same species he’s supposedly been in love with for 25 years, I don’t sympathize with the fact in his “attempt” of giving his child a normal life, he just let them both sit and suffer for whatever fucking reason. What consequence would come from him and Stella divorcing exactly? Would the Goetia family take Via away? What exactly prevented him from doing it sooner? He’s more than well-off money wise, he’s a literal prince in a large family as the Goetia, what exactly could have scared him so much of divorcing Stella to put both him and Octavia through verbal and physical and mental abuse and humiliation? Stella hardly even cares for her own daughter by not even talking about Octavia in a respectful manner, she simply refers to Octavia as an egg she popped out. That’s all Via is to Stella. This is a tangent I don’t even want to go on because it’s just so fucking stupid and it makes me angry.

Blitzo is a victim - he’s a stupid fucking idiot and he treats his employees like utter trash and he invades their personal lives and it’s played for laughs and it’s annoying - but in the situation with Stolas, that imp is a victim. He was bought by Stolas’s father and sold by his own so he could steal everything Stolas had (and like we see no consequence of that because Stolas still had money and power), we see Blitzo trying to avoid Stolas and try to get the book without any intention of actually interacting with Stolas (and the writers shoehorn him having the ‘choice’ of having sex with Stolas and he choose to fuck Stolas for the sake of pity and keeping that god-forsaken trainwreck of a ship alive and profitable), and then they give us an entire season - a whole 7 episodes of Blitzo not showing any sort of admiration for Stolas in any capacity because he’s being sexually used for something he needs more than Stolas does, and a situation Stolas could have made so much easier and better for Blitzo instead of hurt him for a canonical year for his own selfish desires. I’m so sick of people blaming Blitzo for shit that Stolas does. Blitzo is a god damn mess and he’s shit, but he’s a victim to Stolas, and the writers desperately doing everything they can to make it seem like he’s actually been in love the whole time is just shoddy craftsmanship and I’m so disappointed. It’s even more annoying to me because I am a huge fan of the trope of different social classes falling in love despite all the odds. I am so so so in love with knights in love with the one they’re sworn to protect, I love the social dynamics between people from two different places in society and yet this is one of the first times I’ve seen it just so hamfisted and messy that it’s just explicitly pandering at this point.

I wasn’t planning on venting more about this show outside of the media-illiteracy I’ve seen practically in every corner of this fandom, but jesus christ I’m so frustrated I’m so upset that this show had the strongest building blocks to make something spectacular but even the prettiest animation and composition and indie development can’t save it from shitty writing choices.

[wondersofspite]

I just realized that most of Helluva’s main cast are POC (Alastor is mixed race, Vaggie is Salvadoran, Nifty is half Japanese) + Nearly all the center characters are heavily implied to have had bad past/current life condition, and that Charlie, a rich white person, is painted as the ones to help them/”redeem” them. (Not exactly biologically “white” per se, but look at me in the eyes and tell me she isn’t an walking talking white chick both in appearance and personality).

While that bit thought, popped up a possibly of “White Savior” sort of situation that was pretty darn uncomfortable, but at the same time, interesting. Like, if the writers fully twists the knife and actually delve into that concept. Charlie, a very privileged aristocrat who’s the least equipped to understand, deal or even have experienced any hardship, thinking her very simplistic, ignorant ideas of rehabilitation would be clue to all sinner’s problem. Like:

“Homeless? Here’s a hotel! Just ignore the horrors trauma you seen living on the street and be expected to completely obey every one of my orders! I am very friendly! Why would you paranoid of me? I in fact do no see the trouble with how folks like me (rich/upper class demons) who is the reason you got kicked out in the first place shall be untrustworthy and unreliable!”

And with that sort of attitude, let’s say, the hotel absolutely fails miserably. Because it’s both funny and slapstick and kinda reasonable. Patronization can only go so far till it turns off people. So, with that, let’s hop down to when the narrative hits it’s absolute lowest point. Thematically an era of the story where every character/narrative/protagonist are at their lowest point. Of addictions becoming worse due to the minimum supervision, grudges igniting out of bitter entitlement and poor communication, and people like Angel and Vaggie who are in possibility of begin attacked by outsiders/dragged back by abusive figures -

Except Charlie. She, at best, is stressed. There is no permanent physical or mental harm threatening her.

Now, say, the only redemy for this is for the hotel is to release all the occupants, for them to gain distant, to rinse itself and try again with other set of people. But, despite the character’s suffering, ironically, perhaps the hotel is in it’s peak popularity. People actually keep coming due to the lax law, for the free place, perhaps something even the main cast did attracts traffic. But the original occupants: The people most important and central to Charlie’s pitch is begin seriously hurt under her terrible management.

But Charlie, the old girl here, cannot truly comprehend the gravity of it cause she never faced those type of issues. Never ever had to.

So she keeps it going on, promising and swearing that things will get better, speaking of everything in rose-tinted glasses instead of facing the harsh truth. That what matters is the hotel is becoming mainstream, more people are coming: Unintentionally, prioritzing her hotel over her friends.

In an odd way, it would actually suit her premise as the child of Lucifer.

> Promising better future, only to actively benefit from other’s suffering.

> Constantly lying, lightening the gravity of situation, making “tempting” offers and promises

> Feeding into other people’s bad habits and keeping them in harmful environments.

[wondersofspite]

 Due to some accidents involving scalding my left hand, I am currently bit high off of morphine, and apologize so if it degraded my cohesion a bit. But, after staring at the wall for 7 hours, I come to an realization that, Stoliz, in a way almost by accident, is vaguely resembling of Chaggie.

Like. So far, I’ve noted that:

- Blitzo and Vaggie are both people of marginalized group, both racial and societal (as an Imp and an Sinner/WOC)

- Due to that, they both likely have an rough past and are still troubled by it. While this is a bit debatable on Vaggie’s part, she seems to deal with it in a way that is (somewhat) less harmful/heinous/much more reserved. (After all, by looking at some of Vivzie’s art, it’s heavily implied she ended herself)

- They both likely suffered from poverty/money issues till they encountered a Royal.

- Both of them are in an socially imbalanced, financially dependent relationship with their Royals. While it’s very vague with Chaggie because not only are we limited to the current status of Vaggie, the couple itself isn’t even explored.

And while Charlie and Stolas share even fewer links, in between their archetypes as optimistic loving sweeties, their flawed tendency to infantilize and treat an issue smaller than it is/completely miss the point of it is an important note as well.

I don’t know what’s up with writer and their deal to make almost every relationship incredibly power structured but then treating them in story as if it won’t have impact. A whole season into Helluva, and not once did the show even highlight an conflict between Blitzo and Stolas’s different philosophies made of vastly different life styles. That possibly, as someone who lived in poverty, that Blitzo not only loathes, but could possibly envy how Stolas was born with a sliver spoon in his mouth. That not only his motivation of getting close to Stolas consists of the grimoire, but some equal want, a desperate want, to at least experience the life the wealthy lives.To show to some part, that Blitzo just wanna experience what it feels like to live well-fed and privileged.

While Chaggie on another hand, we only have pilot version of. But even with a 5 minute screen time, I think it’s a particularly agreed even in the fandom that the ship is rushed like something added at the last moment (Which, it really is). This would’ve have been alright with me, since, once again. Pilot runtime. While I admit some underwhelming disappointment to see how the episode barely spent more than 10 second in the relationship between the protagonist and one of her most intimate partner, I could’ve waited it out.

But with the development of Helluva and seeing how it writes it’s female cast, I am growing more apprehensive for the future of the only wlw relationship in the franchise that is actually main focus.

Like, with how complicated Stoliz’s dynamic and it’s messages is, I would actually cry if they made Chaggie the typical wholesome lesbian relationship. Not in any normally wholesome way that is simply cute, but a wholesome way that literally turns blind all to the complexity and issues both characters share. Like. A thinly veiled Flanderization. Making up some “common relationship drama” conflicts instead of an really serious ones like their class and power difference. That unlike Blitzo, Vaggie literally can’t walk away since not only does it seem like Charlie is one of her only connection and home (which, once again, debatable. We literally don’t know anything beyond her interpersonal life outside of Charlie), but that she’s also stuck with the very daughter of the king. Like, if you put it on paper, things take a really sinister turn if Vaggie ever want to leave, there’s a high chance she won’t. And personally, I think it would be even more interesting if Charlie acts just a bit selfish, just a tad possessive: Anything more than this perfectly clean moral puppy the fandom and the pilot makes her out to be. 

From all my brief pondering, from the main show to it’s spin oft, Stoliz and Chaggie foil and almost parallel each another.

That, say, if HB grows a pair of white eyes and takes Stolas and Blitzo’s power imbalances seriously and explore it, it can be an story that started with a clear distaste, unhealthy and malignant, starting ugly till it slowly wan into something more... for the lack of better word, tragic. Not romantic, certainly not romantic, but something more mutual . About two bad men whose connections to each other are just as bad, but beyond their classicism and gap in power, that at some point, they see each other - love each other - as equals.

But with Chaggie, of which it’s foundation started young and fuzzy, full of juvenile love and clumsy affection, actually start to decay and fall apart when at some point, the narrative nosedive into it’s darkest point. Of where Vaggie wants to leave, but Charlie doesn’t let her.

Foils.