#helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

Viv was included in a podcast talking about Bojack and Hazbin ect, dropping this in case anyone wants to cover it lol.

[thats-ill-eagle]

Just got this recommended to me on my brand new twitter account.

Nature is healing 💜

[somebodytolove31]

Screaming and crying and throwing up (of laughter)

[gartenofbanny]

So now that Asmodeus believes that Lust can't be forced despite being the Sin of Lust, can we all stop using the fucking "It's Hell" excuse??

It's gotten to a point where one of the SEVEN PRINCES OF HELL has better morality than Valentino, yet people are still using the excuse "They're demons in Hell they're supposed to be mean and dirty". Some bullshit right there.

[zoologicalcartoonvampire]

Just a thing i noticed idk..

[sampsonstorm-critical]

Me with Vivian Medrano HH HB

[skyeblue8]

Ɗᥙҽ 𝜏σ ᙏყ Ɲҽɯ⨍σᥙɳԃ Ƒιχα𝜏ισɳ... ♚

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Specifically with the Gluttonous Sin of Beelzebub being my favorite Sin of the group (not necessarily in Helluva Boss, but just in general), I wanted to make a ranking list of my favorite Queen Bee redesigns and their creators for really no other reason than I just feel like it. Now, this is all personal opinions and should not be taken to heart by any means, it's just for fun:

#1. "Beelzebub & Bibi" by @gravcore

♡ In terms of an actual redesign of the original, I love how this artist made "Bibi" because, for one thing, they made sense of the originals hair by giving her a ponytail since way too many characters have a mohawk style (Loona included); two, I cannot explain just how much I adore the clothes they gave her. The top is actually insect based and gorgeous, and not some recolor version of Loona's outfit; and third, they made canon Bee her own character rather than a royal because nothing about the OG read "Ancient Sin" to anybody.

♡ Now, in terms of the actual Beelzebub, here, she's legitimately stunning. Rather than a redesign, I can tell this was the original long before the Queen Bee episode came out, and I love how it reads both "70's party girl" and "regal ruler" all in one. That, and the actual bug design aspect and the color scheme. Above all else, I love how they incorporated the lava stomach in her design, too.

#2. "Beelzebub" by @s3tok41b4

♡ This design can best be described as a literal re-imagine of the canon Beelzebub as it shares almost all her similarities with the actual bug aspect to it that it desperately needed. It's legitimately simplistic but still appealing to the eye, futher showing us that Viv was perfectly capable of making something so simple, but actively chose to make it more confusing than it had to be.

#3. "Beelzebub" by @ruinxl0ve

♡ Similar to the first two, this shares both a regal and party girl bug aesthetic with the added bonus of actually being beautifully emotive despite not even having a mouth. I feel this beautifully differentiates the design from the original while also making it recognizable and I feel that it kinda feeds into the original concept that Queen Bee could literally "feel the vibe", hinting to her being an empath in some manner.

#4. "The Three Bees" by @onehelluvatime

♡ Long story short, these are three individual versions of the Queen Bee and her new placing within the Hellaverse outside of the canon one. For more in-depth explanation of these interpretations, it's best to check the blog yourself. Truly, I love these designs not only because of the visual redesigns themselves, but also the well-crafted and creative explanations and backgrounds regarding these characters. I especially like the idea that the hellhounds within society are half-undead with skull-like appendages and facial aspects.

#5. "Spontaneous Beelzebub" by @redd-byrd

♡ I know it's essentially the same as the canon design, but with the small tweaks that were made to this one (the giant "Bee Butt", the added black lines, the actual bug-like wings, the blue-thin eyes), all of them give a more clear indication (at least to me) that this Bee is more higher up than her fellow hellhounds, meaning she looks a lot more like a hybrid thus making her more grand. It's nice how they added these small details for improvement while still essentially leaving the design like its original.

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Anyway, thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. Have a nice day!

[heckarockstick1]

hey helluva boss critical community, here's a reccomendation for an actually good indie animated show that deserves ur support: humans-b-gone!

basically it takes place in a world were the roles of humans and bugs are swapped. humans are tiny (called "gubs" by the insects), and bugs are big. the main character is rose, a tarantula who takes up a job as the assistant for sophodora, a mantis who runs her own gub exterminating service in formicosa city. there's only six episodes so far but its pretty damn good. plus it's actually sticking to its plot! it also has some really cool worldbuilding, explained by a mysterious cockroach named gregorsa at the end of every episode. the worldbuilding is all bug themed and based in irl science, so thats another neat touch. overall i wholeheartedly recommend this show.

[helluva-daughter]

So let's talk about Vivziepop's designing skills!

The amount of sadness I feel when I see Vivziepop's designs of the demons in Helluva Boss is impossibly high

Simply comparing them from where she is pulling from feels like looking at a newborn compared to a grandma. Now let's go through them!

Lucifer

Viv's Lucifer, a popular depiction of Lucifer ("The Fallen Angel" by Alexandre Cabanel), and one with Jesus ("The Temptation of Christ" by Ary Scheffer)

You can see a big difference in a lot, as you can see Lucy (which will be Viv's version) has well. Clothing but we can give her a pass for that as I don't think Youtube would be fine with an animated dick on screen. Another thing is his lack of wings, bat-like or feathered along with blonde instead of red curled hair and yellow eyes instead of the blue Lucifer has in The Fallen Angel.

But what I see as the biggest thing is Lucy's lack of muscles! In both of these depictions I have chosen Lucifer appears muscular whilst Lucy has Viv's favorite smile and body shape.

Asmodeus

Here we have Viv's Asmodeus (Ozzie) and Asmodeus from Collin de Plancy's "Dictionnaire Infernal"

I will give Viv major props, I LOVE Ozzie's design. If we removed the feathers, made his head bigger, and some small things it would be AMAZING! But comparing it to Asmodeus it's... wooo.... very different.

First you can see is Asmodeus does not look conventionally attractive with his strange old man face, elf ears, bull head, ram head, serpent tail, and literal chicken legs. Ozzie does have the 2 heads on his shoulders (just very small) and a tail (not a serpent one) but other than that the similarities end. Though I do think taking Asmodeus the direction to being physically attractive to most people was a good way to go.

A personal nit pick is the clear lack of a BADASS DRAGON. Yes, Asmodeus has a BADASS DRAGON. On his little Dictionnaire Infernal image he's sitting on a BADASS DRAGON which he holds a banner as he rides. Viv you could have made Fizz a cool dragon demon! Make him look LESS like Blitz's twin brother and more like something that related to the Ars Goetia canon.

Beelzebub

Now this is Viv's Beelzebub and a fly-like Beelzebub (Beelzebul) (I've left out the more manly versions of Beelzebub to keep it fair as Beelzebub is a woman)

So a big thing we can see is Beelzebub is a furry whilst Beelzebul is a straight up fly, taking the term "Lord of the Flies" much more seriously. Now comparing these two is basically impossible minus their wings and extra arms. Now with them looking nothing alike I'll put some of my own personal critique's in.

One, Beelzebub's hair and tail makes me want to vomit. It's constantly moving thus every frame it must be moved which is HORRIBLE on an animation stand point. Two, Her clothes. A direct quote from the Helluva Boss wiki says "Beelzebub represents the animal tamer/animal shows" when her clothing looks like that it's hard to believe. If it was casual clothes? Okay I'd believe that but it being her debut episode wouldn't you want her in her normal clothes? And that's ignoring her magical disappearing bra... is that just an arm strap? Three, the ear thing. God the ear thing! Viv said they were supposed to appear like beehives... girl what beehives have you been seeing? Maybe she meant honeycomb? Still I see zero resemblance.

Mammon

Here we have Viv's Mammon, Mammon (Mam) from the painting "The Worship of Mammon" by Evelyn De Morgan, and Mammon (Mon) from Collin de Plancy's "Dictionnaire Infernal"

As we can see Mammon looks like the Teen Titans Go Robin mixed with a Christmas tree, the Christmas theming is quite clever I'll give Viv that. Christmas is a time of greedily taking all that is given to you through gifts. Now I could complain about how Mammon is poor rep for a fat character and simply is a widened version of her normal body type but I already made a post about that

But comparing him to Mam and Mon? Nothing similar. Mam we can see appears like a very large naked buff dark skinned man whilst Mon is a freakish old man with wide eyes and tattered clothes. Mammon shares zero similarities to either of them.

Another thing is Mammon's monster form... I believe everybody has seen it and hochie momma it is HORRIBLE! From the screenshots I've seen we don't see all of it but he's clearly intended to be a spider of sorts which is great! Spiders can often be seen with 6 flies trapped on their web being hoarded for later but Viv seems to have taken the lazy route of extra legs and 2 extra set of eyes. Anthro spiders can be so so SO cool but I feel scammed. Stolen from. My life savings have been taken by this shitty design.

Paimon

Here we have Vivziepop's Paimon and Paimon (Paimonia) from Collin de Plancy's "Dictionnaire Infernal"

As we can see they appear nothing alike minus the crown and odd chicken legs though Paimon lacks the camel that Paimonia has. Paimonia also has a feminine face and a humanoid body, nothing like Paimon. Though I personally think Paimon's design is stunning what made Viv connect the two, is it because the Goetia family is intended to all be ripped from the Ars Goetia? I feel though that Paimon's design takes as much as it can from Paimonia while making him look related to Stolas but why does he need to be named Paimon?

Stolas

Here we have Vivzie's Stolas and Stolas (Stolos) from Collin de Plancy's "Dictionnaire Infernal"

So, I have a lot of issues with Stolas's design, it's ugly first of all but compared to Stolos's cute yet shocked wide eyes and charming little beak it's even more obvious how ugly it is.

First, Stolos is shown as an owl (but also is described as a Raven). which Viv got right along with keeping his crown and odd horn-like feathers. However, I believe making Stolas that skinny doesn't follow the model of most owls as they can be pretty fluffy and plump. Even Stolos has a round fluffy chest that trails into his comically long legs.

Second, that cape is very horrifying but not in a good way. Nobody wants to animate a cape with that many rips! Even if they don't have to be precise. Also, why do his buttons have no lineart when everything else around it has lineart? I have the same issue with Blitz's design and his random chest orbs.

Feel free to put in your own reblogs and replies with your opinions! You can also send in asks with designs from HH or HB that aren't linked to previously existing designs unlike these fellows and I'll throw in my personal thoughts.

-Mod Paimon

[mauesartetc]

Redesigning Helluva Beelzebub

Hoo boy, roll up the sleeves for this one.

The Original

In my review of Helluva Boss 108, I mentioned that Beelzebub's character design put me in mind of how some DeviantArt kid's fursona might look. And... Yeah I stand by that statement. The most likely reason I can figure Viv Medrano wanted her to be dog-like was to make a reference to her Die Young music video, which featured an anthro wolf singing a Kesha song (for context, Kesha herself voiced Beelzebub and co-wrote a song for this episode).

But for those who are unaware, Beelzebub's traditional depiction looks nothing like this.

Really the only visual similarities the Helluva version shares with the Infernal Dictionary version are the insect wings, six limbs, and the crown thingy over the head. (At least I think that's a crown-? Kinda hard to tell on both counts.)

Bee's eyes get somewhat more insectoid later in the episode, but that feels like a cop-out. Wow, her eyes and colors changed. Totally a bug demon, right?

They had the same problem in Hazbin Hotel with Katie Killjoy, who's allegedly supposed to be a praying mantis but barely resembles one, even after her transformation.

I understand the desire for fresh takes on old figures, and taking creative liberties so the new interpretation doesn't feel generic. But the changes should at least make sense. By now it's pretty clear Viv couldn't care less about representing Ars Goetia demons faithfully, as demonstrated with Paimon, Andrealphus, and now Beelzebub. You could slap completely different names on these characters and it wouldn't change a thing. I posted this meme a while back but it's never been more relevant:

On top of that, what reason could there possibly be for the design to be this damn complex? Why did she need so many markings on her face? Why did she need so many layers of hair? Why did she need flowing goo for her hair, tail, and body, each requiring dedicated effects animation?

When it comes to a hand-drawn production, less is more. Any superfluous details on a character just make unnecessary work for the animators.

Anyway, here's what Viv has to say about it.

Alright, I'll admit: The lava lamp bit is a little clever. Basically it works as a regular stomach does, but on demonic steroids. But it wouldn't look so much like Viv's making this up as she goes if we'd seen Bee's stomach performing its intended function in the episode. Let her chow down on a giant piece of food (maybe that cotton candy she's been handing out-?) and swallow it, and let Loona (and the audience) see it dissolving in her transparent belly. As a general rule, if it's not shown or explained in the work itself, it's not canon. Like I've said before, Viv: Elaborate on the nuances in the story you're telling, not on social media.

Also, "Her ears are designed after beehives"? Wh...Wha? Ma'am have you ever seen a beehive.

(Hell, even if you told me the ears were inspired by the generic cartoon beehive we're all familiar with, I wouldn't have guessed. There's a difference between being subtle and being vague.)

I can kinda see it in the overall shape, but that's a very specific design inspiration that wasn't clear at all in the design itself. Same with the "animal trainer" thing: I never would have picked up on that if Viv hadn't pointed it out. If a character design doesn't visually convey all the necessary information, it's not a successful design. Show, don't tell. There's a communication breakdown between what Viv's telling us and what Bee's design shows us.

(It's possible she actually meant "Her ears are designed after honeycombs", but even then, each compartment has a specific pentagonal shape that's not coming across at all here.)

I also find it interesting that Bee and Loona have almost the exact same body type. Of course Viv's pretty infamous for samebody syndrome, but it's actually unnerving how similar these two are.

Might this be a reference to Vortex's "type"? Is this foreshadowing a relationship with Loona? Am I overthinking this? Yeah, probably. Viv's demonstrated a clear preference for tall, skinny body types over the years, so it's safer to assume that's the explanation. It's all aesthetics. It ain't that deep. Occam's Razor and all that.

Finally, Bee how the hell does your shirt work.

The Concept

So at this point it seems most logical to lean into the "bee" thing for the redesign, and scrap all the canine elements. As for the blobby hair and tail... yeeeah let's nix those too. We're going for a streamlined version that's easier to animate. And because I ignored the ringmaster look for my redesign of Asmodeus, it only makes sense to do the same for Bee's animal trainer vibe (what little there is) for the sake of consistency. I know this version of Hell has a circus theme with its highest-ranking demons, but there's never been an in-universe explanation for why that is.

Let's look at actual bees, then. A quick peek at Google has informed me that certain insect species have smaller, "simple" eyes (also known as ocelli), in addition to their compound eyes. In bees, this manifests as a triangular grouping of three beady eyes on top of the head.

In her Helluva Boss episode, Bee's full demon form has three eyes, which could be a reference to this triangular arrangement, plus her regular form has two spots on her forehead in addition to the third eye. So it's possible Viv actually did research for something. Pleasantly surprised on that front.

Next, the body. I've noticed that some folks find Bee's skinny body type refreshing, as the sin of gluttony is too often personified with fatness. And that's fair. That's valid. But consider this:

Imagine any Vivziepop character saying that about a chubby person. Imagine the series sending the message that fat people can be sexy too, and that they have worth outside of their appearance, enough for at least one character to consider them girlfriend material. That they're valued and appreciated regardless of this culture's beauty standards (which we know nothing about since the worldbuilding is as thin and flimsy as tissue paper, but whatever). Imagine if this show finally had a fat female character who wasn't relegated to the background. Don't know about y'all, but that would be refreshing to me. And when you take into account all the fat-shaming of a character who isn't even fat, portraying a fat character as attractive would be a nice change of pace for this show.

Now let's talk about clothing. In the episode, Bee's clothes show off a lot of her body, with a cutout crop top and short shorts. We can take a similar approach for the redesign (something that still shows off her chest, belly, and limbs, in keeping with the extroverted "party girl" persona), but that perhaps includes more queenly elements.

The Redesign

Because this is a redesign, many elements were already in place, but I still had to figure out how this character would look as a bee. Here's where the preliminary sketches came in. Lots of trial and error in this process.

Wrestling with this character's face got a lot easier once I realized I could mold it into a pentagonal shape akin to a honeycomb compartment. It took a few tries, but at last, I had a final sketch.

All that was left to do was test out some color combinations.

I tried a few different approaches, but in the end, this is the version I felt worked best.

I used many of the colors from the original, but pushed the orange much harder since orange is the symbolic color of gluttony as a sin. And overall it gives Bee a nice honey-ish look rather than the generic black and yellow we already see on so many bees in cartoons. I thought the colored outlines on her clothing would add a soft, feminine touch, as well.

And just for kicks, here's a quick sketch of her giant form, inspired by the Infernal Dictionary drawing of Beelzebub.

Conclusion

The canon version of this character exists in the form she does for no reason than to stroke her creator's ego. "Hey guys, remember when I animated that Kesha fan video? Remember how cool that was? Wanna see me foist this unnecessarily-complex character design on other animators while I take a victory lap?" I wouldn't mind so much if Viv animated any of this herself, but she didn't. I could almost excuse this if she had no animation experience and didn't know how much work it requires, but she does. The self-aggrandizing entitlement is just off the charts. But a nonsensical design is leagues better than a stolen one, so... brownie points for that, I guess.

[showtoonzfan]

A recent article came out about the mistreatment and pay of Spindlehorse employees, please spread this around.

[starlight-bread-blog]

Stolitz if it was written well

[anglercrit]

One thing that really frustrates me about Viv's work is how she handles her villains. She has a love for wacky/Saturday morning cartoon villains, which, fair- I admit I like them too. But the issue is ALL of her villains are this- all of her villains are either goofy Saturday morning cartoons or complete idiots, neither of which end up posing an actual threat to the cast. Like, seriously- let me go through every villain in Hazbin/Helluva so far.

Stella: Treated as incompetent by the narrative

Robo-Fizz: Dead

Verosika: barely even a villain- if anything she's more just a rival

CHERUB: Kicked out of Heaven in their first appearance so they can't be a threat to IMP, and they haven't shown up since their first episode

DHORKS: Same as CHERUB- portrayed as incompetent and haven't shown up since Season 1

Striker: WAS an actual decent threat in Harvest Moon Festival....but then Western Energy ruined him and made him into another dick joke vehicle.

Fizzarolli: an actually decent rival to Blitzo in Ozzie's, but he needed WAY more episodes before hitting the big emotional arc in Oops and hasn't been portrayed as a villain since Ozzie's

Asmodeus: same as fizz- seemed intimidating at first, but he hasn't really....been portrayed as a bad guy since Ozzie's.

Chaz: Joke villain who's just a more annoying Blitzo and he's dead now so

Crimson: Had the POTENTIAL to maybe be a threat, but was already treated awfully in his debut episode, and was handled even worse in Oops

Andrealphus: Introduced out of NOWHERE and has barely done anything/we've had no time to absorb him as a threat

Barbie Wire: RIDICULOUSLY flat and oh yea is an Actual Predator for the sake of a bad joke

Glitz and Glam: ....why do they exist again?

Mammon: an ACTUAL THREAT AGAIN, but even THEN he's still portrayed as goofy/incompetent

As for Hazbin's villains...

Lucifer: Goofy Dad

Vox: Goofy Villain

Valentino: Goofy Villain Who's Also An Actual Rapist

Velvette: ....does she even count?

Adam: Annoying Dickhead Fratboy who's more irritating than intimidating

Lute: Honestly the most potential of anyone here but she's still pretty boring

The issue is Viv wants all her villains to be Team Rocket, but she forgets that Team Rocket was Never Taken Seriously. Minus the Unova anime, When it came time for a serious threat, there was always a new villain introduced for the movie! They knew they couldn't have proper stakes with them as the main baddies, so they weren't! Viv just doesn't understand that you can't have all your villains be Jessie and James if you're trying to go for a serious story like she is.

[gartenofbanny]

Whenever a Helluva Boss episode releases, there are a lot of tweets that, unfortunately, aren't very knowledgeable about Vivziepop's interpretation of Hell and frankly, I can't blame them.

These quote tweets just prove how poorly written the overall world building of Helluva Boss is. This scene is nice, but a lot of users are EXTREMELY confused, especially about the different types of demons and what really goes on in Hell.

Most of the information about Hellborns and the other Rings will have to be looked up on the Wiki page or through other YouTube videos. The viewers shouldn't have to do outside research to figure out what's going on within the show.

If the creator of a show is unable to effectively communicate what's going on within the world IN the show, then they've failed as a creator and a writer. Because only the die-hard fans or people who desperately seek answers are willing to find said answers, and then they have to explain it to the new fans because the show failed to do that.

[will-pilled]

Why is Angel's SA literally the only one taken "seriously" (if you can even call it that.) Every other one is either made into a joke or punchline (Pent or Mox) or completely ignored and they pretend it isn't happening (Blitz) Why is Angel's the only one that matters???

[kittenface40]

I.M.P is irrelevant to Helluva Boss

When Helluva Boss Pilot came out,I was really excited, to know more about these characters, their personalities, their relationships to each other and how they would develop. Additionally, I was also wondering on why each of these characters joined I.M.P and why did Blitz start his own business.

However, as the series went on, the show went on to become the Stolitz show along with dedicating episodes to fan-favourite characters that have nothing to do with I.M.P (Ozzie, Fizz and Stolas).

This is one of the (many) reasons why I'm disappointed with the current state of Helluva Boss, I.M.P's irrelevance to the main story, while I do enjoy the new episodes. There are a lot of story issues that I have with it, the fact that IMP is basically irrelevant to the Helluva Boss.

NO IMPACT ON THE OVER ARCHING STORY:

So far we only had five out of fifteen episodes (excluding the times where it's offscreen), of IMP doing it's job is the main plot of the episode, while five episode may seem fine for some it becomes a problem when their actions are basically inconsequential to the main story.

The only times where they are important is for one-off adventures like in Murder Family, Spring Broken, CHERUBS & Unhappy Campers. The problem is that their existence doesn't impact Stolas' story in anyway (aside from Blitz), like why are we focusing so much screentime on Stolas (a secondary character) who isn't even employed at IMP. And instead focus on Blitz, the titular character, protagonist and him being the boss of IMP. Understanding his goals and reasoning as to why he wanted to start IMP.

HELLUVA BOSS? WHAT BOSS:

Another problem I have with IMP, is the fact that we don't know why Blitz wanted to start a business on killing people, was it because of his tragic past and to distance himself from it, is it that he discovered he's really skilled at killing people and decided to make it big , is it because he wants love and new connections from his employees, is it to prove the higher class or his father that he can make it big and break class traditions. What is it? We only now why he wants love and respect from his employees due to his tragic past. But we don't know why he started his business.

Also we never get to see him develop into a caring boss that genuinely cares about his employees, with the show only showing the ending of the development in the same episode but none of the development.

In addition, we also never get the chance to see him as a leader of IMP, you think Blitz would be the leader and he needs to grow into being one for his employees. But the show never has Blitz develop into becoming a Helluva Boss.

NON EXISTENT SURFACE-LEVEL RELATIONSHIPS:

Another thing I really hate is that the relationships between employees at IMP, are never explored beyond the surface level. The only one I can say this doesn't apply to is Moxxie and Blitz.

We don't get to see the M&Ms relationship grow outside of loving each other, and when they do explore it, it's written poorly (Unhappy Campers).

We don't get to see Millie and Luna, relationship grow, they don't even talk to each other that much in the show. What is Blitz & Millie relationship, why do they get along with each other, why is she fine with Blitz behaviour. Luna and Moxxie relationship, why is Luna so mean to him, how does Moxxie feel about Luna bullying him, has she ever went too far, would Millie get angry at Luna for bullying.

(Side tangent; but why is Millie not standing up for her husband when Blitz and Luna bully Moxxie, they do it right in front of her. Wouldn't she get angry at them, edit: I checked and she did get angry at Luna for calling Moxxie fat, but not at Blitz for joking about this. But she needs to say something, put her foot down, not just make an angry expression)

EMPLOYEES LACK OF REASONING:

We don't know what the employees motivation was to join IMP. Why did Moxxie and Millie join IMP, was it to prove their parents wrong, to make it big, or is it for similar reasonings to Blitzo.

Why did Luna join IMP? Was it out of gratitude for Blitz saving her, was it because she couldn't get a job as a hell hound, was it to be with her father more.

-----

Anyway, that's my thought for a day, on Helluva Boss, let me know what you think about IMP. Do you agree? Disagree? Why? Let me know!