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This blog has been a bit dead lately, so if it’s not too much trouble could you guys spread this around and all that jazz? It would be greatly appreciated. 

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sometimes i feel like my character is too included in canon, like they seem more like a main character when they should be a side character. i dont know if i should make them seem more like a background character or not

From what I’ve seen that seems to be a pretty common mindset within the fandom regarding original characters, and likely one many people with original character’s in other fandoms as well. I have to say, it is unfortunately a reasonable thing to feel uncertain about.

Some people who play canon muses do not like the idea of an original character potentially “overshadowing” their muses regardless of whether the character makes sense or not. Simply put, if your character has some sort of importance or can fight better than the average Joe, it’s generally frowned upon. It’s just another double standard that, unfortunately, likely stems from the unspoken stipulations and prejudice against original characters in general, which exists even in a fandom as open with original characters as One Piece is. (Those people are generally ones who don’t have original characters of their own, though.)

I personally don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. Since original characters are created to fit into the world, it’s inevitable some things that take place might involve them or have an effect on them. It’s a bit paradoxical to design a character for a specific world and not have them involved with it in some way or another, especially if they’re part of a group who is directly involved. It’s like creating, say, a Straw Hat character and just leaving them on the ship while the rest of the crew runs off and does what they need to do - every single time they go somewhere. It’s completely pointless and defeats the entire purpose of creating an original character in the first place.

It’s like a football player who spends the entire season on the bench: they may be part of the team, but they aren’t actually playing the game.

Many of the characters I’ve seen around the fandom, namely the older ones, have quit a bit in their character’s biographies that is heavily influenced by discussions and threads they’ve had with their partners. A lot of character’s are developed that way and therefore, as you’d expect, are inevitably included in “canon”.

I think the deciding factor in the matter would be to what degree they’re involved. There is nothing wrong with them having relevance or some minor importance, however; there is a certain line. If they’re heavily interfering with the course of canon, such as altering the entire story line or “replacing” a main character (such as someone defeating someone Luffy defeated), then it would be a wise decision to put them more towards the background. Original characters are meant to fit in with the world, not entirely replace existing characters - they can be just as strong and important without needing to be at the forefront of everything. People often forget that the side characters are just as important as the main characters.

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Hi! Can I ask on how to give your OC an accurate bounty? Before the new world, my OC has mainly stealth abilities while after new world she had both stealth and fighting capabilities? Thank you!

The easiest way to determine it would be to look at the crime or crimes that were committed. The worse the offense, the higher the bounty will likely be. Things such as widespread damage, large numbers of civilian casualties, and the likes usually attribute to high bounties while smaller offense warrant lower ones, and in many cases, not at all.

For the sake of not sounding like a broken record, most of what goes into making a bounty can be found here and here.

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ive been considering making a character who was abused in the past, both physically and sexually, but im afraid of writing it wrong. what would you guys suggest i do to avoid that?

I can understand why you’d be concerned about this matter. I know many people can become extremely uncomfortable when things of this nature are written incorrectly, some may even find it insulting depending on how poorly it’s done. It’s a very touchy subject, and unfortunately, it’s usually the one that’s slapped on to a character for decoration without much thought.

My first piece of advice is to list the full extent of the abuse, such as what was done, for how long, how old they were when it happened. This is essential. Abuse, be it physical or sexual, constitutes as trauma and how a person reacts to that trauma does have to do with their age. This is especially true for young children. Keep in mind, however, that while not everyone responds to trauma the same while, everyone showcases the affect in someway.

The most important piece of advice I can give is research extensively. Wikipedia usually has pages on nearly every type of abuse you can find which detail how a certain type of abuse may affect them in different stages, the reasoning behind those affects, and the likes.

To really understand and write it properly, you do need a certain level of understanding of human psychology, though that is also a necessity for character creation in general. 

You need to not only write it accurately in your character’s bio, but you absolutely have to show it through the character portrayal as well. Not doing so results in what I was talking about before when I mentioned people throwing that stuff onto their characters for the sake of decoration. That is usually where most people go wrong. They put it on their character, but fail to show the actual effect it truly has on them.

Aside from that, the biggest thing to take note of is what I mentioned above. No one, regardless of how strong willed they are, will ever escape from a trauma unaffected. It may not be as noticeable for some characters, but it will be there and it will have an effect on their personality and mentality and it will need to be show cased in whatever way.

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is this blog still active? if you are, would you mind answering these two questions? 1) What is the reputation of each Blue, aside from East Blue being the weakest? 2) Is there any way to get from one Blue to another?

Unfortunately, there is no other information regarding the reputations and strengths of the other seas aside from the East Blue’s reputation of being the weakest. I would say judging on the level of the pirates that come from the seas, the North Blue would likely be strongest out of all of them, but given that the East Blue, despite being the weakest, has produced some pretty formidable pirates, it would not be an accurate assumption.

For the second question, yes, but it is not easy. I double checked the map from the anime to be sure, and while it is possible, the chances of crossing into another sea without some sort of clearance or special technology is very slim. The Red Line and the Grand Line run perpendicular to each other, effectively sectioning the seas off. Unless you go over the Red Line, which if I remember correctly, requires clearance, or you go through the calm belts, which are filled with dangerous Sea Kings, you can’t get to another Blue any other way. 

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This blog has been a bit dead lately, so if it’s not too much trouble could you guys spread this around and all that jazz? It would be greatly appreciated. 

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what would you consider to be a good price range on bounties from first bounty to most current?

That would depend on where in the world they were when they received their first bounty, their offense that warranted it, and information available to the marines at the time. Generally speaking, the East Blue is the weakest sea, so any bounty exceeding ten million is considered substantial and top tier. On the Grand Line, higher bounties are more common. In the New World, three hundred million is considered low.

The nature of the offense is a huge factor. As I’ve stated before, the Marines do not hand out bounties like candy. They will not give bounties for the smallest offenses and they certainly do not hand out substantial bounties for those offenses. 

The biggest thing people tend to forget about bounties is that amount needs to correlate with the crimes committed. The worse the crime is, the higher the bounty will be. Murder, mass destruction, and possession of dangerous information or activity against the World Government are crimes that usually warrant higher starting bounties.

As I’ve said in a previous ask, there are things that will not warrant a bounty, such as being part of a specific crew, being related to certain notorious figures, mundane criminal acts such as petty theft and the likes. Bounties are only given to those who earn them. The Marines do not have the time to deal with every petty criminal in existence.

My general advice would be to keep the original bounty under one hundred million. Usually a few thousand to a few ten thousand makes a good starting bounty. After that, the increases follow the same lines as the starting bounty. 

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how do you make an original backstory? im afraid there too many similarites in mine and other charactrers

No idea is truly original anymore and as a result, similarities and parallels between backstories, whether it’s a canon character’s or someone else’s original character, is inevitable. In fact, there’s really nothing wrong with it. Even in canon, there are numerous characters with numerous parallels in their stories. As long as it is not a direct copy of someone else’s backstory, there shouldn’t be a problem.

My advice for being as close to original as you can be, however, is to possibly base that story off of real world events. There are numerous catastrophes and wars that take place in out world. It’s unfortunate, but horrible things happen. Given that a lot of backstories in fiction are based off those real world events, there is plenty of material to work with and the vast technology available in the world of One Piece makes many, if not most, of those scenarios possible.

As a couple of examples, you could base it of the idea of the Black Plague in England back in the 1300s or possibly the Great Depression in America in the 1930s. With enough creativity and messing around with the pieces, you can fit those events into a backstory that is both realistic and unique. Even less drastic things, such as a child orphan, a freed slave, a person forced into piracy - all of which are common tropes - can easily work as well. It’s not the overall idea that makes it original, but how it’s written and how it plays out. 

As I said, don’t worry about the similarities too much, it happens. Two characters can easily have the same overall idea, but how it plays out and the events that follow is what makes it different. Even in real life, many people go through the same things. Sooner or later, you will stumble across someone who’s life seems very similar to yours.

So, as long as you’re not directly copying someone, event for event, a parallel or a similarity is really nothing to be concerned about.

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Can solid/harder elements be classified as logia? Aokiji is Ice, but someone like Jozu who is diamond seems to be classified as paramecia.

Unfortunately no, they cannot be. Logias are characterized by the ability to turn their users into natural forces or elements of nature that make them intangible. That keep characteristic sets them apart from the Paramecia type. While a Paramecia can be a natural element, such as rubber or diamond, those substances are tangible. If you touch diamond or rubber, your hand will not go through it as it would with say, water or sand.

The most common Devil Fruits that people often dub as Logias, when they can’t possibly be considered one, are metal based Devil Fruits. Because they are solid in their natural states and cannot be intangible unless heated under extreme temperatures they cannot be Logias. The only metal that could pass for a Logia would be Mercury as it is liquid at room temperature.

While they do share common aspects with many Paramecias, the difference between them is the intangibility aspect: once you take that away, you no longer have a Logia as the key characteristic of the class, the one that sets it apart from the Paramecia class,  no longer applies.

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ive been thinking about making an oc with the "asshole" persona but im not exactly sure how to go around writing one are there any methods or things to keep in mind when making one?

The “asshole” type character is probably one of the hardest types of characters to create and write. Many of them are often mistake for villains, and while villains are assholes in their own rights, there is a fine line between the two. There is a common misconception that assholes are heartless, cold, and unfeeling.Just because someone is an “asshole” doesn’t mean their a villain. The reason they are tricky to write is because if it’s taken too far, become unrepeatable and unlikable. They’re not villains, they’re not monsters. They’re just assholes.

Asshole type characters usually tend to create tension. They cause drama whether they intended to or not. How they go about creating that drama is what determines the type of asshole they are. 

There’s a few things you might want to ask yourself about them before you really get too far into it:

Are they the type of asshole to bully or harass others? 

Are they the “blunt” type of asshole who has no filter and says whatever they please? 

Are they the two-faced asshole who smiles at you and then spreads rumors about your behind your back?

Are they the “lovable” asshole who just has a very teasing and sarcastic sense of humor?

Are they the cocky and conceited type of asshole who looks down their noes at people and picks on those they deem beneath them?

Are they the “little shit” type of asshole who does things for the sake of being annoying and obnoxious because they find amusement in it?

Are they the quite type asshole who just ignores everyone around them?

As you can see, there’s a few types of these characters. One thing that most, if not all, asshole characters have is what’s sometimes called an “excuse”. It doesn’t mean that they can do what they want without repercussion, but rather that there’s something in their life, either past or present, that’s pushed them down that route.

For example, some may be insecure and attempting to hide it, others might have problems at home, been the victims of excessive bullying in the past, and so on. Very few people are assholes by nature. In most cases, something happened to them to make them that way. If you want your asshole character to be believable or even likable, they “excuse” is a almost always a necessity. Of course, this doesn’t necessarily apply to all types of assholes either: some people are just arrogant by nature of upbringing, and some people just have a natural inclination for bluntness - even so, in most cases, there is an underlying reason.

Some characters even incorporate more than one type. You can have someone who’s cocky, arrogant, and a little shit. You can have someone who’s blunt and a little shit. It highly depends on what type you’re looking for and whether you’re going for the lovable types of asshole or the “I wear my sunglasses at night” douches.

One thing to keep in mind is they are not always that jerk who’s constantly sabotaging everything. They have some unlike able qualities that are more noticeable than the rest, but that doesn’t make them vicious creatures out to destroy everything - and once again, that’s where the misconception that assholes are villains comes from. An asshole isn’t necessarily evil, they’re just problematic, for lack of a better word.

My advice is to try and pick the type(s) that fit most with what you have in your character’s backstory and their personality. As I said, most of them need the excuse, which is usually provided by their past experiences. 

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Hi! I've been trying to submit my oc for review but I'm stuck on the personality part. I thought I had figured it all out but now everything seems so contradictory. Do you have any tips on how to determine complimentary positive/negative personality traits? Thanks!!

There are numerous lists of personality traits that clash. Looking up the definitions of those traits also helps. 

My advice would be to look at the traits, their meanings, and what they imply and then match them up with all of the traits you have listed. Unfortunately I can’t seem to find an website with of opposing traits, but I did manage to find an image with a list several of them which can be found here.

Some traits seem like they clash, when they actually don’t. A person’s nature also has something to do with it as well, given that someone can be highly intelligent, but also very reckless as they’re driven more by intuition than logical thought.

The best way to really go about it to ensure that the personality doesn’t clash or make sense is to look at their backstory and pull the traits from there. In most cases, that usually limits the chances of a trait clashing with another since, well, the traits are already defined in the backstory. It’s just a matter of locating them and simplifying them into a word or two. 

Aside from that, I can’t really say much else, other than not all positive traits compliment each other, just as not all negative traits compliment each other.

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Do you have a guide to writing headcanons? I'm having a difficult time structuring mine correctly.

There really is no structure, honestly. Headcanons can be anything from two sentences to twenty pages as long whatever information necessary is written down.

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I've been considering giving my character a fake limb or just removing the limb completely. How do I go about doing that?

I’ve noticed that this is starting to become a more common aspect among characters, which shouldn’t be too surprising given the nature of the manga and the dangers a lot of characters’ occupations pose. It’s not something I advise doing on a whim or a split second decision. It’s something I would recommend you truly consider from a good amount of time before making any conclusions and setting it into stone.

Removing a limb from a character is going to have a drastic effect on them in every aspect from mentality to mobility and everything in between. Regardless how that limb is removed, the loss of an extremity is considered a traumatic experience and there are physical and psychological consequences as a result.

The first thing you’d need to consider is which limb you want them to lose. Everyone has a dominate side; even people who are ambidextrous favor one side more than the other. Losing either a leg or an arm on the dominate will have a tremendous effect on them. Depending on whether it’s replaced or not, your character might have to start learning how to do things with their other hand and so on.

The next thing to consider is how that limb is lost. The event that caused it is going to be the basis of that trauma and depending on how it happened, it could have an even bigger effect than the loss of a limb itself. It’s also going to dictate how much is going to be removed so it can heal and that can be the difference between the entire limb and only part of the limb. If anything, the how is the most important since it will, in a sense, dictate how the character is likely going to react or feel about it or feel about the person/circumstances relevant do it. In some cases, it may even lead to your character to developing something like PTSD.

There are also physical consequences as well. Many, if not most, people who’ve lost a limb experience what’s called Phantom Limb Pain. It’s a neurological phenomena where the nerves in the amputated limb send pain signals to the brain as if the limb is still there. Simply put, someone suffering from PLP might feel sensations such as pain, tingling, heat and the likes in the area where the limb used to be, thus why it’s called Phantom Limb Pain. The intensity of that pain can vary from extreme to mild and in most cases will decrease over time.

Another thing to consider is whether or not the have a prosthetic as a replacement, what it’s made of, and how they acquire it if you chose to give them one. They can honestly be anything from the stereotypical peg legs to actual mechanical limbs with the technology available in One Piece. It depends on the character, their connections, and so on. Some character, such as Shanks in the canon story, don’t have replacements.

One other physical and neurological consequence to losing a limb is the disruption of the body’s natural equilibrium. Losing any limb, regardless of whether its an arm or a leg, will have an effect on the body’s natural sense of balance, just as losing any one of the senses will have the same effect. This is even more true for prosthetic, especially depending on what type and material is used. The body has a very strict balance mechanism and any sort of alteration, even if just a single eye is taken, it will interfere with the character’s balance until their body is given time to adjust. 

You cannot just slap a replacement on a missing limb and go on like everything is find and dandy. There will be consequences, and the extent of those consequences will depend on the conditions above as well as the character’s mentality. Some people have the uncanny ability to bounce back after something while others don’t, but even those kinds of people will feel some sort of effect either physically, mentally, or both as a result.

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Mod H’s Character Creation Guide Part 1/? : Basic Information

Character creation in itself is an art. Much like a drawing or a painting starts form a simple sketch, so to characters. As you develop you character and flush out their design - just as an artist would add lineart, color, and shading - the pieces will come together to create the whole picture.

Those of you who have created characters in the past are (probably) well aware of how frustrating it can be. Even more so when you have the ideas, but don’t know how to piece them together. For that reason, this guide was made with the intentions of alleviating some of that stress. This is my method and the one that works the best for me, however; I am aware that no one thing works for everyone. While this guide is mostly geared towards One Piece, it could very well be used for other fandoms, or even original fandomless characters, minus a few sections.

So, without further ado, on to the first part.

The basic information is your backbone, your outline, your foundation, and your base. You can call it whatever you want, but the basic information is the sketch that you’ll build off. You’d be surprised how much information, and how many limitations, can come from the basic information alone.

Name - The name is a given. Every character needs one. Even characters living on the streets or alone will eventually have some way of referring to themselves - whether someone else gave them the name or they came up with it on their own.

A few tips for names:

Don’t be generic and avoid overused names. Yeah, some of them are pretty, but some are so commonplace that people almost groan at the sight of them.

Be creative. One Piece has numerous names from multiple cultures and is not limited to Japanese names only. Grab a random name generator, write down a bunch of names you like, and pick one.

Don’t give your character a hundred middle names. I mean seriously, we’ve all seen at least one character like this. Don’t be the next Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.

In One Piece, names are structured as they are in Japan with the surname/family name first and the first/given name following. Japan (and by default One Piece) does not use middle names, with the exception of the name D.

Age - The age might not seem important at first, but it is. The character’s age will determine their maturity, both physically and mentally to some extent, as well as the extent of their skills. Naturally, someone who is older will be more experienced in certain areas than someone who is simply talented and only just started, just as someone who is younger but learned form a young age will be more experienced than someone who is older but only started learning that particular field.

This is particularly important for Devil Fruit users. The more time someone has had to work with their Devil Fruit, the higher their mastery over their abilities will be. Someone who has had their Devil Fruit since they were a child and is now in their late twenties will be more capable at using their power than someone who only gained their abilities a year or so prior, regardless of whether the latter is naturally talented.

For a prime example, look at the canon story. When Luffy first ate his Devil Fruit he had very little control over it - he punched himself in the face several times because of this. Ten years later, he was able to use it much more effectively due to years of practice.

The truth of the matter is that in most cases, experience outweighs natural talent. That is why the age is considerably important; it will determine the maximum amount of time your character has had to learn and master their skills and abilities and how much experience they would have in that field.

Birth Date -  This isn’t really all that important, but everyone has a birth date and it’s nice to have on hand for reference. It’s pretty self-explanatory, but you could take this a step further and find their star sign and birthstone for association purposes. Some of you might even want to take another step and add the year, which can be calculated if you follow the wikia’s listing of the One Piece world timeline. As a general rule of thumb, the story’s date is 16th century - or 1500s (I think, don’t quote me on that).

Gender - I won’t get too much into this as I personally do not know all of the genders, nor do I trust the internet to actually explain it correctly, but gender, for the most part, defines some physical and social characteristics and/or possible struggles the character has gone through.

Place of Origin - This is considerably important. Different cultures have different views and morals, such as the difference between Wano and Amazon Lily. On Amazon Lily, the women are fighters and warriors. On Wano, however, given what Kin’emon has said, women are held to much different standards. Needless to say, a woman from Amazon Lily and a woman from Wano would have very differing views and attitudes.

The place they’re from also dictates a certain level of knowladge about the world. Some islands are closed off while others are not. The things that are commonplace and known in Water 7 are not known in the East Blue, as shown by the Straw Hat’s confusion about a train. As another example, until Luffy came along, many of the women on Amazon Lily had never actually seen a man before - they’d heard of them, but had never met one in person, hence why they were so fascinated (and later hostile as a result of Luffy’s yelling) and one girl was even taking notes.

The main point is that, much like our own world, the place where the character originated from will dictate some of their views, beliefs, and knowledge of certain things.

Occupation - Unless your character is eight years old and living with their parents, most people have a job of some sort - something that pays the bills or a specific way they live their lives. This can be anything from being a simple waitress to being pirate or a marine.

Bounty - Naturally, this is something that most people would immediately know about the character. Bounties are public knowledge. Anyone who has gotten hold of a newspaper is probably going to know about it.

A few things to keep in mind when it comes to bounties are:

The price needs to match the offense. The Marines do no throw out bounties willy nilly. Joe Bob down the street isn’t going to get a 3 million bounty just for stealing a lollipop from a child.

Bounties are made based on what the Marines know and do not always accurately reflect a person’s true capabilities. For that reason, they can easily be higher or lower than they should be.

Some people even create fake bounties as a fear tactics, which was highlighted in Mock Town by Bellamy who did believe Luffy’s bounty was legitimate.

People who cause civilian casualties and considerable amounts of property damage tend to have higher bounties as they’re considered much more dangerous.

Not everyone who is a pirate has a bounty. As long as someone’s offense is worthy of a bounty, they will have one. Alternatively, not all pirates have a bounty.

Bounties are not given just because a person is related to someone or part of a crew. Doesn’t matter how infamous the crew or person actually is. Why? Because in most cases, unless you draw attention to yourself and do something they can’t ignore - something that actually warrants a bounty - they aren’t going to notice you.

I personally advise holding off on this aspect until you’re figured out their backstory, though because it’s a basic necessity, it’s been listed.

Epithet - Epithets go hand in hand with bounties. If your character has a bounty, they’re more than likely going to have an epithet. That does not mean that only pirates have epithets. Several of the Marines do as well. Epithets can come from anywhere. Some are given after specific characteristics, such as Shake’s hair color, or Luffy’s hat. Others are given as a result of abilities or skills, such as Ace’s fire fist move, or Hina’s black cage. In some cases, they’re based off of occupations, such as Zoro being “Pirate Hunter” or Nami being “Cat Burglar” as that’s what they did before turning to piracy.

Really anything can be turned into an epithet if you’re creative enough. Just make sure it actually applies to the character in one way shape or for.

And don’t worry about the epithet paralleling with others. Blackbeard, Whitebeard, and Brownbeard all have the word “beard” in their respective epithets. Numerous original characters have the word Devil or Demon in theirs despite Robin and Doflagmino having those words in their own. Even if they have the same words or underlying themes, as long as they’re unique that’s all that matters. Just don’t directly copy someone else’s epithet.

Part 2: Appearance (Coming Soon)

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Do you do Bio reviews?

That depends on what you mean by bio review. Are you asking if we can just look at the bio and tell you if it needs more or less information or if the information listed makes sense? In the case of the latter, that’s what the submission form is for, it’s actually set up so that it can easily be copied and pasted into a bio/about format. In the case of the former, I suppose we could, as long as we had the blog url and such. 

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What are the basic things that an OC should have? In terms of what to display on their blog?

Bios are not easy to write. You need more than the basic information, but too much information is also a bad thing. I may have gone a bit overboard with the response, but this is basically what I think makes for a good bio. At least, that’s what I’m assuming this question was directed at, anyway.

First things first DO NOT USE A SEPARATE POST. Don’t make people go hunt it down or have to ask for the link. Most people aren’t even going to put in the effort. Make sure the link to your bio is on the front page of the blog where it can be easily located and accessed.

This is a simplified list of what most people expect to see on a character bio:

Basic Information

Appearnace

Personality

Backstory

Fighting Styles and Devil Fruits (if applicable)

Any other important information that might affect interactions or the character

In a more detailed explanations:

Basic information is, well, basic information. These are the things that are readily known, usually within the first few interactions, or otherwise. Bounties and epithets also go here as, most people with a bounty and epithet are at least known in some form, given that both are present on a wanted poster with the name listed. Don’t muddle it with useless or irrelevant information such as blood types, Japanese spellings and pronunciations, or trivial things. None of that is really important.

My general rule of thumb is: Name, Age, Gender, Sexual/Romantic Orientation, Relationship Status, Place of Origin, Occupation, Affiliation, Bounty, and Epithet (if present). 

The appearance is pretty self explanatory as well. I would personally just list the physical traits such as height, weight, notable features, hair color/style, eye color and so on. If there’s anything extra, such as tattoos, piercings, body modifications, or scars, those should be listed as well. If you want, you can also include the character’s main style of dress since it helps to visualize them more.

Personality is one of the most important parts. My advice? List the traits - both positives and negatives. The backstory should reinforce them as it is. If your character has something else that’s directly related to their personality, such as mental disorders or habits, list those as well, preferably with some explanation.

Backstories are usually where people struggle the most and were things really start getting lengthy. The easiest way to do it is find the major events in the characters life throughout the years and summarize them. Listing of ages is important as well as it helps people see the timeline better and makes it easier to plot if your partners don’t have to spend so much time asking simple questions that should already be answered.

Fighting Styles and Devil Fruit information is also a necessity, especially since One Piece is an action packed manga and fight threads are pretty common. Devil Fruit information needs to be detailed so your partners know exactly what to expect from it. My rule of thumb is: Name of the fruit, class/type, main ability, weaknesses, and any other abilities that branch off the main ones.

The last one is also pretty self-explanatory. Basically anything that seriously effects the character that wasn’t listed elsewhere, such as muteness, deafness, blindness, missing limbs, and ect. This second could also include other notes about their past and such, how much is made public knowledge, and so on.