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Jason Todd & Critiques of Child Vigilantes

I've always found it interesting that as early as Bruce's opening monologue in Batman #428 - before he even finds Jason's body - DC had already started victim blaming Jason for his death.

Admittedly, I'm cherry-picking a bit here. There rest of the monologue does involve Bruce blaming himself as well, for all the choices he made in raising Jason that led up to this. In The New Titans #55, Dick makes a similar claim - this is Bruce's fault, for letting Jason be Robin before he was ready.

Except then Tim Drake picks up the mantle.

And the victim blaming settles in as the narrative DC's pushing. Jason was reckless, he was angry, he was impulsive. He jumped into this situation without thinking, and that's what got him killed.

And it's obvious why, right? Because Jason Todd dying, Robin dying, is about as effective an argument against child vigilantes as you can get. Because if it isn't Jason's own intrinsic failure, then the blame turns to Bruce. It's Bruce's fault for putting a kid in a costume, for putting Jason in a position where the Joker had cause to kill him.

(Sheila only sold Jason out because he was Robin. Joker only set the bomb because he wanted to avoid Batman's retaliation.)

Because if we really start critically thinking about the implications of child vigilantes in this world, it starts unraveling at the seams. And the first obvious loose thread is Bruce letting Tim pick up the Robin mantle, after the last one died.

Anyway, this post isn't about how blame is shifted onto Jaybin post-death to avoid criticizing child vigilantes. This is about the Red Hood and how he does the same damn thing.

Jason, after his resurrection, has a habit of harassing various heroes and monologuing a whole lot in the ensuing fight. Relevant to the conversation here are the arcs with Tim Drake and Mia Dearden.

It's worth noting that Jason is projecting in both cases, specifically taking his own relationship with Bruce and assuming that the same is true of Tim & Bruce and Mia & Ollie. This is obviously not the case, but it is relevant because it gives us insight into how Jason views Bruce, and where he feels the blame lies.

Life and Death - Teen Titans (2003) #29

TT #29 is the comic featuring Jason Todd's infamous attack on Titan's Tower, in which he fights Tim Drake for 8 pages. While we're here: no Jason wasn't trying to kill Tim, it was a fair fight not a one-sided torture fest, no throats were slit, and while that Robin costume may have been homemade I refuse to believe it was cheap. Jason is not wearing a cheap Halloween costume that thing is fully functional as a vigilante costume I will fucking FIGHT YOU -

Jason repeatedly brings up Bruce during this fight (emphasis mine):

"[Bruce] let you find him. And I bet he said the same thing to you that he said to me, didn't he? That you had the talent to make a difference in Gotham. That he needed someone he could trust in his war on crime. That you're one of a kind. The light to his darkness. Robin, the Boy Wonder. Now... let me show you what the Joker did to me." "Still. You do realize, the whole idea of training a teenager to fight against something he'll never eradicate is a mistake. It didn't surprise anyone when I died. When I failed."

This is Jason criticizing Bruce. This is Jason calling out Bruce for his failings as a parents, for the fundamental wrongness that is a child vigilante. Jason specifically frames it in the context of his own life. This is how he views Bruce's influence on him - his death is something that could have been predicted.

Except: This is DC. Child vigilantes are a genre convention, are a foundational part of how the world is built, and cannot be criticized.

So let's take a look at everything else Jason says:

"You can't be that good." "Now… let me show you what the Joker did to me. And let's find out how tough you really are." "I failed--but I'm still beating you. Do you think you're that good now?! Do you really, Tim?"

It's not about Bruce at all. Bruce is not the one in the wrong, here. It's about Tim. Does Tim have what it takes? Is Tim good enough to deserve this mantle? Jason looks at Tim and says: I was not good enough. What makes you think you are?

"I had to convince Batman to let me try this. All because he'll never stop blaming himself for what happened to you," Tim says. Tim implies that Bruce is wrong to blame himself. Jason's death? That was all on Jason. If Tim gets hurt, if Tim dies? Then it's all on Tim.

Jason also spends some time talking about how no one remembered him. However, this part of the conversation is initiated while they're in the Titan's Memorial Hall, which did not have a statue for Jason. I'm interpreting it as a comment fueled by the environment, and thus not part of the core arguments Jason's trying to make.

Seeing Red - Green Arrow (2001) #69-72

GA #72 is the comic featuring Jason kidnapping Mia Dearden, fighting her in her school's gym before blowing it up. While we're here: Jason was not trying to kill Mia, Jason was not bringing up Mia's trauma to throw call her disgusting or throw it in her face, and Mia was not horrifically traumatized by that encounter.

Let's look at what Jason has to say about Ollie and Bruce, first:

"Is that why you find it so hard to kill? Do you think life is so precious? Or do you have to emulate your new flawed 'Daddy'?" "My surrogate dad comes from the same damned pampered upbringing as your self-righteous mentor." "And I know that sometimes very bad things have to be done to do a great right. I don't think either one of our 'fathers' will ever understand that."

Yes, I'm reaching a bit here. However, there's the same pattern here of calling out Bruce for a specific way he failed Jason - by believing and pushing a specific moral code that he expected Jason to follow.

Even today, Jason killing is far more controversial than it is when other heroes do it, both in or out of universe. This is due to his relationship to Bruce. That expectation that he should align with Bruce's moral code, because he grew up alongside it. This is something specific to child vigilantes - other superhero team-ups where they're around the same age would not expect them to share the same code beat for beat.

It's not... a particularly strong argument, but if we run with it. Once again, Jason shifts the onus of responsibility from Ollie (Bruce) to Mia (himself).

It's a lot harder to find specific quotations where Jason says this, because a lot of it is implied, but throughout the fight Jason is trying to goad Mia into going for the killing shot.

"You're going to keep shooting your lawn darts at me but avoiding every killing wound. You know how easy this is when you limit your options. You're working the same thirty-three. Thirty-three angles, points--thirty-three shots. None of which will be a fatal blow. When that quiver is empty, you know I'm going to come for you!"

(He does not come for her. He gives her a pair of swords and makes her fight him again.) Jason compares himself to her ("You're a lot like me.") and then, after the previous quotation about how Ollie and Bruce will never get that sometimes you have to do the bad thing [kill], he says, "But you do."

Once again, it's not about Ollie. It's not about Bruce. It's about Mia, and what Mia chooses to do. It's Jason saying: Are you going to mindlessly follow what your mentor says? Or will you do what you know is right?

It's the same twist, again. It's not about what morals said mentor/father figures are selling, it's about the child's duty not to listen.

Conclusion

I've referenced a couple of times that DC can't have criticism against child vigilantes. I'm sure others have explained this better than I can, but the general reasoning is because child vigilantes are objectively bad. If you apply any real scrutiny, any level of realism, and you realize that having them is harmful. Harmful to the kids, and it is absolutely the fault of every single one of their mentors for letting this happen.

The kid sidekick is a genre convention. It's part of the landscape of superhero comics. This is the part of the story where you suspend your disbelief, you pretend that letting children fight crime is fine actually, and you enjoy the story that comes out of here. If we acknowledge in universe that letting kids fight crime is bad, you break that universe.

And that's exactly what Jason Todd does.

That's what he did as Robin, and DC responded with the victim-blaming narrative as damage control. It shifted the responsibility for his death from Bruce to Jason.

This trend continues into Jason as Red Hood. His very existence is an argument against child vigilantes. And so he brings it up, and in projecting on other characters he again underscores just how culpable Bruce is for his death. But we can't have that, so even as Jason brings up these points, he undermines them by shifting the focus to what the child is doing. After all, he's confronting Tim and Mia, not Bruce and Ollie.

(And in his actual confrontation with Bruce: "I forgive you for not saving me." Many have pointed out that this is not the same as it wasn't your fault.)

If you're a child vigilante or a kid sidekick, and you get hurt, if you die, that's not your mentor/parent's fault. It's on you. It's always been your own fault.

That's how it has to be.

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okayyyyy I haven’t been back here in a hot sec. Turns out mental fatigue is real and I’ve been too tired with my whole life. However! I got out of my funk due to an awesome tiktoker/Ao3 writer who proposed the idea of Gotham herself killing the joker.

And yall know me (or not!), but I’m someone always down to play around with canon and fanon.

TikTok/Ao3/tumblr creds: @ iheartdeadmen79, and just_lien on ao3! Tumblr: @iheartdeadmen79

Soooooo: fic! (And a sneaky peek):

He doesn’t die on her soil.

If he had, she could have saved him.

She isn’t able to bring him back to life in places where she does not reside. She doesn’t even realize he is dead and gone until her knight brings his body back over her threshold.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/63140911

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shout out to the person in Joanns that drew Dick Grayson, had to draw my fave Jason next to his big bro. <333

Giving the brain worms happy Jason and not the mess of him dying and reviving again 😋🫵

Edit: my friend informed me the drawing looks more like Tim, but I still say Dick🤔what’s the verdict???

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sigh. I wrote more Polin. Obsessed with Colin and Pen…

It’s a problem really. Here’s a snippet from my favorite letter from this fic;

“

Dear Pain in the Ass,

If I was not enjoying my time with Kate on my honeymoon, just believe that I would have tracked you down myself, you idiotic buffoon.

I am unsure why you are running away with your tail between your legs, but leaving without informing me or your younger siblings was quite rude and inconsiderate. The only reason I am not ignoring you so that you can wallow in your self pity is because Kate stands behind me. She believes you a fool, but a good natured one. Her words—not mine. I believe that you are playing a far too dangerous game. I am unsure what your plans are when returning, but best be prepared. Mama is not too pleased you have run off again.

If you wish to play around in Greece or Italy, or wherever you think will accept you, it is fine by me. Just be aware that you will be back in time for Francesca’s debut or I shall drag you by your wick myself.

Our family is doing quite well. I hope you are as well. You know I only wish the best for you, even if you are quite vexing. I hope your travels will give you the peace of mind you are searching for. When you return, I hope you can finally find a nice woman to settle down with. Do you have any in mind? I can get some interviews set up with Mother, if you wish for her to pick your girl instead.

It is quite hard to think of anyone beside your side but Miss Penelope Featherington. Perhaps it is because all my memories of you have been at her side. I’m warning you in advance—that can not continue. I know you mean well Brother, but Miss Featherington needs to find a wealthy and happy man. Your friendship puts her off the market. Unless you intend to marry her, I suggest you tone down your familiarity with her, so that other men do not get jealous.

I hope you take my advice to heart. I do not wish to see you suffer for the same mistakes that had almost befallen me.

Sincerely,

Anthony

“

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whoever decided to NOT tell me Bridgerton was so good is horrible and should be jailed immediately. I have watched 16 hours of S1 and S2 the past two days on my days off because I saw one ONE edit of the gorgeous Penelope and fell in love with her.

Anyways, I will be watching s3 on Saturday so no spoilers YALL. I also haven’t read the books, but I will have to rectify that I believe.

Andddddd a FIC! Not beta read by anyone, and sloppily written. But I had fun! Here’s a small snippet hehe. It was just supposed to be small and fun character study on Penelope lol.

——

Dearest Pen,

I hope you have been well—

Penelope smiles, letting her fingers trail against the harsh strokes of her nickname on the paper. The ink is a dark ebony black, writing rushed, as if he could not help but pour his thoughts out with a speed that could rival the fastest carriage.

She smoothes the paper out, before she continues to read.

I, most certainly, have been so. I have recently moved locations once more. I am currently in this quaint abode in Prague. The neighbors are quite rowdy, but it is nothing compared to the loud and boisterous family of our my own.

Penelope stops, re-reading over Colin’s words. She can’t tell what the exact word is that he has crossed out, but her heart flutters at her imagination. Is she wrong to think he had written our?

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omg guys I finally uploaded chapter 5 of, “How to be an Older Sibling; Memoir Written by Richard (Dick) Grayson-Wayne” !!! Here’s a snippet of it, hehe.

“

Barbara rolls her eyes from behind her glasses, turning to the young woman. “Don’t mind him. That’s Nightwing—pain in the ass number one.” She points to Tim next. “And that’s Robin.”

Babs then turns to Dick, eyes fierce and stubborn. “She..She doesn’t have a name. But she’s been helping us.”

Dick takes in her face, freckles plastered on her checks, green eyes vibrant. He takes her for her word, stepping closer to the girl with no name. “It’s nice to meet you.”

She glances up at his face, lips twisting before tapping her fist to his outstretched hand softly. Dick raises an eyebrow “I don’t think..that’s how you do it?”

Babs laughs from behind him, wheeling closer towards him. “It’s a way to say ‘how do you do’, Boy Wonder.” “

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Jason Todd Fans (and others!!)

There’s a fun little small Indie (home?) project of a live action Jason Todd!! It’s on YouTube linked below if you’re curious to watch their take on Jason!

I believe they took inspiration on the Arkham Knight games and the movie, so any (comic book readers) Shelia haters be aware she ain’t in it 😞

But I think it’s fun and I’m so glad to see my boy getting some love!! Go like and share if ya like it, I’d love to see what they’re willing to do with Jason!! I’ll always support small projects <33

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that swap au by soggywhiskers on twt, they love each other, your honor

i'll post it there tonight, but you guys get to see it rn bc tumblr is very cool

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gosh okay but listen I love this and I love the fluff but the angst in the beginning OMG THE ANGST,,

THE ANGST IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE NATSU FORGETS UGH 💔💔

“Lucy! Look! It’s your—-“

Or something simple like, “Lucy have you seen my scarf??”

Natsu not believing she can’t see at first, thinking she’s playing a stupid joke and then breaking down because he thinks it’s his fault and Lucy is angry because she couldn’t stop it from happening and his pity party is pissing her off. He’s upset and wants to run away just like how he couldn’t protect future Lucy

And Lucy is so so upset “you’re crying like YOU are the one hurt! I’m the one who—who can’t go on jobs anymore and, and—“ and she’s just sobbing. (unless we have it that she can’t even do that either—) she wants to go on jobs too! She wants to hang with her friends and fight alongside them and now she can’t—

And Natsu is upset and maybe they fight and don’t talk to each other until Happy or Gray slaps him across the face or fights him and gets him to see that this hurt EVERYONE and “No, Natsu, you can’t go and train alone for another year she NEEDS YOU DUMBASS—“

And then he eventually makes his way back to her apologizing, snot dripping down his nose as he sobs for forgiveness. And then he mentions that she can still go on jobs—that this is a small set back.

Maybe Lucy learns like Toph (Avatar the last airbender), to feel the ground and air and trains with Scorpio on how to feel the earth and manipulate it and gets his star dress and fights blind, or or—

SO MANY IDEAS OMG HAHA

More of my BlindLucyAU because apparently I like to suffer :)

Thanks to @clover11-10 for some of these ideas!! <3<3

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I think it’s a half n half situation here, because like it’s fun to write about and think about in theory if you’re thinking in Bruce’s POV, but in Jason’s… I like the idea of it just making his emotions and physical body stronger. He still is in charge, but it emboldens his moves. He’s an emotional character, and it’s a cool writing device to use, and in the comics Jason is written very wishy-washy because everyone has their own thoughts on his character.

It just depends I think on how writers wish to write him. That’s what’s fun about fanfic!! It doesn’t have to be canon and you can breath life into characters however you chose. So people who write him ruled by the Lazarus and those who don’t, and some in the middle, they are all technically right! That’s what’s fun about writing 🫶 I’ve written Jason in every kind of way because that’s what writing is about! Experimenting with characters until you understand them the best way for you!

And although some will never read the comics, and some will make up..unique headcanons no matter how annoying some may be, it’s all in fun! Unless you are actively hurting people I think it’s okay to have your own idea on characters yknow? I do admit that sometimes I read something so widely out of canon it makes me go “oh!” But even then, I just move on. Some writings are just not for me. And that’s okay!!

I’m confused by people in the Batman fandom saying pit madness isn’t real. In ‘Red Hood - Lost Days,’ Ra’s al-Ghul not only talks about the pit possibly driving Jason Todd mad, he says it might take decades before it’s out of his system.

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🥰immediately ordered bc I’m a goober

Jason Todd

Plush Wonderland design

↓ You all chose and I delivered ↓

Only the First 30 orders can enjoy the 20% discount, with the Discount code--Jason20

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Lilith lore by yours truly! <33 two new fics that I’m sure will make your head spin!!

Summary for more than anything:

Threats of violence is something Lilith is used to. After all, it kind of came with the whole defying God shtick.

But she would not let them touch Charlie. Even if it means leaving.

Or; The next installment in the series, where we learn what caused Lilith to finally leave, and what Heaven has been up to since they fell.

Summary for stick it to the man:

It's been years since she had left Lucifer, hiding away Charlie from the underworld to protect her.

But every year the angels get closer and closer, a looming threat against their lives. Lilith knows what she must do—the very same thing she has been telling herself she would one day have to do after finding out that Lucifer and Charlie are still angels at their core.

She was going to make a deal.

Or; Lilith makes the deal to leave her family for good.

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THIRD FIC BABYYYY. It’s good trust me, I touch in on Lilith’s character. (Trust me trust me)

Summary;

Lucifer was going to confront Lil. Had to, after the knowledge he had learned that Charlie's wings were not being cleaned correctly.

But he hadn't expected this.

Or; The continuation of the first and second fic, where we find out Lilith's motives for keeping Charlie's wings a secret, and perhaps that love may conquer all until it doesn't.

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I wrote another fic I’m so down bad someone stop me

Summary;

Charlie doesn't see her Dad much anymore, so she tries to spend as much time as she can with him when she's able to.

If that means convincing him to stop her bath so that he can clean her wings, then so be it!

Or; the continuation of my first fic, where Lucifer and Charlie bond over cleaning their wings and Enochian.

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bad news I wrote about Hazbin Hotel guys I’m so fucked I can’t start a new obsession I still have to finish my 18k fic of fairytail I haven’t posted and my dick Grayson fic guys help

Anyways check out the fic bc why not, if anyone else has fun ideas about Charlie throw them my way bc I’m in love with her and I need more fics of her being a badass and lovable good WITHOUT the Alastor ship she has VAGGIE GUYS. Anyways, here’s the summary:

Charlie isn't supposed to talk to her Dad--Mom's orders.

But maybe...Maybe just this once she can listen to him sing. Just this once!

Or; I headcanon that Charlie and Lucifer can speak in Enochian, and let them get to bond a little.

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I need this as a complete fic rn. Please. Please. I need dual POV of Bruce and Jason and it’s no angst just fluff. I need it. I need Jason coming home injured and Bruce butting his head against Jason until Jason bandages himself, Bruce sitting in Jason’s pockets, curling around his head as he bats his son’s helmet to alert danger. I need Jason to slowly grow confused when Batman stops coming out to fight him, I need him confused why Dick is in Gotham because Dick was never in Gotham the whole time he was Red Hood. I need Tim Drake following Red Hood bc he’s unsure but he KNOWS Jason was the reason for Bruce to be missing, and somehow they end up bonding awkwardly looking for Bruce but Bruce refuses to say anything because this is what he wanted!! He wanted his sons to get along.

And ofc Dick finds out where Tim is hiding every night because Dick has been looking for Bruce, and crashes the party and now he’s chilling with a crime lord and a child trying to find his stupid father. The whole time no one knows about Bruce and Bruce refuses to change back (perhaps as time goes on his senses as a human are dulled as a cat?) and no one knows that Jason is RH other than Bruce (the cat lmao). Pls pls pls.🙏🏻

Cmon it sounds awesome right? Every other chapter is Cat Bruce and Jason POV and it’s just a fun fic of what-ifs🙏🏻who needs angst when we can have a funny reveal fic! This reminds me of the miraculous fics/comics I read yearssss ago where Adrien would turn into a cat on accident and marinette would take him in and he would find out she was ladybug lmaoooo

Anyways. Fic! Fic? Please😗☝🏻

Newly crowned Crime Lord Red Hood stops in an alley. There’s a black cat there, lots of fur where he looks bigger than a normal cat. It’s eating a burger on the ground. It reminds Jason a little bit of himself. All alone, fending for itself.

Jason takes it back to his primary safe house with him. And it’s a cat, so he takes off the helmet and the domino around the fluffy animal. He chuckles to himself when he named the cat Batman.

And for two weeks, he had no idea that the cat was, in fact, Batman.

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the duality of (my) man 🥰

jason todd during his red hood era was so right. shifting your mindset from “im going to kill myself” to “no YOU ALL should kill yourselves” really is the cure-all for depression and suicidality. we should all learn from him 💛