#(it doesn't. it really doesn't. and that's not a victim complex it's an object fact)

[malachitezmeyka]

Existing in this world with the current political climate means kinda wanting to partake in the around the world Hatsune Miku trend but wondering if I'll be fucking crucified for Russian Miku

[minihelly]

One thing I really appreciate about Severance is how complex the characters are and the fact the writers trust that we as the audience are smart enough to understand them instead of just shoving it in our faces. I feel like most shows would go 'This person is the bad guy! And this one is the good guy!!!" but they don't really do that in this show? And while I felt a little underwhelmed by the episode at first, after a few days thinking about it I think Trojan's Horse was a really good example of how the show excels in moral ambiguity and its characters.

Helena is undoubtedly a villain. She's a higher up in the company and is at the very least complicit in the torture of its workers, and now she's taken things even further by SAing Mark last episode. She's objectively a bad person, but at the same time there's this kind of tragic sense to her character just looming in the background. She's a terrible person but she's also just a puppet in a larger plan. Her father, the only family we've ever seen her having, encouraged her to be sent back down to the severed floor even after nearly being murdered just days before because he couldn't care less about her as long as the company reaches its goals. She doesn't even see the innies as people but she's more like them than she could ever realises - she's just a pawn in a larger game and no longer even has control over her own body. She's a brillaint example of 'hurt people hurt people'. It doesn't take away from any of her actions but it makes her so much more tragic and complicated.

Milchick has been a villain since Day 1 - he is part of the management, he conducted break room sessions, and - despite seemingly trying to improve some of their working conditions - he actively engages in the abuse of workers. But he's also a victim in a way. He's been nitpicked and pushed around by upper management, is constantly being chastised for his work, and is even being subjected to racism from the company he works for and is in no position to stand up for himself. It doesn't take away from any of his actions but it makes him so much more multi-dimensional and even sympathetic.

Mark is such a complicated character already but the consequences of the events of Woe's Hollow have made him even more so. He's already lost his best friend (Petey), one of his very few other friends who was probably the closest thing to a father figure he's ever known (Irving) is gone too, and he's been manipulated and SA'd by Helena - he thought he was sharing an extremely intimate experience with Helly when in fact he was being tricked and taken advantage of by somebody else essentially wearing her skin. It's completely horrific and it perfectly explains his behaviour in the newest episode and why he's being such an ass to everybody. And yet, while it perfectly explains his behaviour, it doesn't take away from the hurt that it's casting on others. Helly has no idea what's going on and he's so angry and upset and confused at Helena that he's taking it out on her instead because he just can't trust her. And you completely understand why he's acting that way but it's leading to him hurting somebody innocent in response.

Like Helena, he's an example of 'hurt people hurt people'. The emotions he's faced in this episode are so complex to navigate that one minute I'm angry at him and the next I just feel so terrible for him. His feelings are so understandable and so valid but at the same time Helly was also assaulted - her body was essentially used for sex without her consent while she was unconscious and in any other circumstance that would be seen as SA - and yet she doesn't even know. He's keeping it from her because he's embarrassed and guilty and feels violated but she deserves to know. They were both victims but only one of them is even aware and he's having to process this alone while staring at the same face that did that to him without even knowing it.

THAT is good writing. And that is what this show excels at.

[echantedtoon]

YANDERE DEMONS AND BRIDES P2

Ok. So part 2 is here. Mostly because Hantengu is actually 7 people packed into one and I'll be needing to tackle them all in their own posts. I'll do a part 3 with the lower moons next

Warnings for yandere-ish (???) themes, kidnapping mentions, possibly death mentioned, mention gore(Hantengu ripping up his body to let the clones out) and threats, Mentions of Urogi accidentally cutting Yn, mentions of a dead animal, Karaku IS his own warning, possibly some innuendos, etc.

I won't really do them separately because I can't really see one developing feelings for a single clone because they'd be inside Hantengu most of the time so the only way you'd develop any relationship with the clones is by hanging about Hantengu the entire time.

Zohakutan will also be included as he is a part of Hantengu but his segment WILL BE PLATONIC!! I DON'T CONDONE ANY OTHER WAY!!

HANTENGU + CLONES:

COMPASSION AND PATIENCE

-If you know him then you know his backstory and victim complex. Unless he's killing someone to eat or carrying out whatever orders Muzan wants him to, he's avoiding people like the plague which still he blames everyone else for. So it's unlikely he'd actually meet you unless Muzan ordered him to eliminate you, he's hungry, you're a slayer, or it's by complete accident. Let's go with the last one for this.

-Like usually he hides away from anything and everything. This time taking shelter in an old abandoned shed during the day. Only it isn't abandoned. It's YOUR house. And it's not unoccupied because you come home later in the day from hours of shopping and visiting friends in the town a few miles away from you. You don't even notice the demon in your home because he's hiding in the darkest corner shaking and watching as you walk about putting away new fabrics and food to be made into lunches and dinners later days.

-You accidentally bump into your kitchen cabinet knocking a pot off making a loud noise that startled the demon into shrieking and scrambling across the room startling you into shrieking, dropping objects, and whirling around wide eyed. You both freeze. He's mumbling and shaking like a cat dipped in cold water under your kitchen table and you're staring at what looks like an old man. You both just freeze staring at one another.

-Eventually you slowly relax seeing it was just an old man but you were still highly cautious. It was too dark for you to tell he was a demon in the limited lantern light and the fact most of him was hidden under the table. After a moment you speak to him in a gentle voice asking him if he's alright and when he answers you in sobs and shakes, you couldn't help but feel so bad for him. You took care of your grandparents until they passed away so seeing this assumed poor old man has you feeling so sorry.

-So you offer him something he's never had before. You smile so beautifully at him and tell him it's not his fault for being scared. You ask if he has any nearby family and as he answers no, you tell him he can stay the night in the guest room and you'd figure out what to do in the morning. You try to coax him out by offering him some food to which he reluctantly agrees. Being so used to helping the elderly thanks to the care you gave your grandparents, you easily held him pulling him slowly to his shaking feet and slowly walk him towards the guest room taking your arm in his. Hantengu is stunned, shocked, twisted-......And in his twisted mind it's already concluded one terrible fate for you.

-Hantengu is not one shy to marriage. As a human he's had many relationships and families even if they never ended well. He doesn't remember a lot about them. He has a faint knowledge of having previous wives but he doesn't remember any of them. But that doesn't stop him from thinking that you would be the perfect wife. Compared to other demons Hantengu is the most delusional and the fastest to turn yandere FAST.

-You are surprised when you wake up the next day and find the old man gone no where to be found in your home or the town and no one has seen any old man walking around by themselves when you ask around. Strange. You spend all day looking for him out of worry but give up when you could find him no where in the town, your home, or the nearby forest. You return home before it gets too dark and are surprised to find all of the raw meat you bought the day before completely gone. You only find one half pork chop left with what looks like a wolf's sharp teeth had taken a big bite outta it.

-It weirds you out. On top of the sudden disappearance it sends a bad feeling through you. However you chalk up the old man to a wild dream and the missing meat as a wild animal because honestly you did leave the front door open when you rushed out to search for him. There's no other evidence of him being there so you soon put it out of your mind.

-A few days later you truly realize the horror of your choices as your front door opens wide one night and lit by the bright fireplace is a horrifyingly terrible creature. Shaking with tears running down his face. You're too stunned, to scared, to petrified to speak as he just crawls towards you and tell you in a sobbing but affectionate voice that your husband was home.

-In Hantengu's mind you both are together with you being the perfect caring wife when in reality you're too scared and confused to correct him (for now). He will bombard you with needy whines and sobs expecting you to comfort him with whatever it is he's terrified about. Awkwardly and fearfully you do buying your time until you can figure out what to do about this demon sitting down at the dinner table shaking and expecting dinner (which is usually just raw steaks and such for him) to be served by his pretty wife.

"It's N-Not my fault! You know that d-don't you?"

The rest of these guys all share a similar sentiment to Hantengu however they do have their own opinions on the subject.

URAMI:

-(Bare with me. It was the only gif of Urami I could find.) Actually is the clone you see the very least. In the year and a half of you nicely pretending to go along with Hantengu's 'wife' delusion before Tanjiro frees you unknowingly, you only ever encounter Urami twice.

-The first time you meet him is the same day you're bombarded by all of the clones. They were all itching to come out to meet their new 'wife'. As they're all extensions of Hantengu they all share the same delusions. So you shrieked as Hantengu ripped himself up forming two younger men before they ripped up each other turning into FOUR young men along with one giant version of Hantengu holding his now tiny form in the palm of his hands. You shriek out before fainting. Thankfully Aizetsu caught your limp form.

-Urami is the clone of Resentment, he embodies the resentment of all of Hantengu's past wives not being as good as you. Threatens you not to hurt his 'innocent self's' heart or else he'd make you resent it! You faint again from the intensity of that meeting causing the others to panic and Sekido smack him over the head with his staff.

-The second time you meet him is two months before Hantengu's death and your freedom being restored. He startled you just walking into your home right behind the other clones. He was so tall he had to duck just to get in through the door. Turns out a semi strong demon had challenged him to a blood battle for Upper Moon Four causing five of his six clone forms to appear. He ignores Sekido's arguing with him as he just places one giant hand on your head patting it like a dog as you stared frozen up at him.

"We go through a lot of trouble for you. Don't make me resent you for that."

SEKIDO:

-If you thought Karaku and Urogi's antics or Hantengu's clinginess gave you headaches, then let me introduce you to Mr. Hothead.

-Sekido represents all of the things he's angry about in a relationship. 'His wife not being compassionate enough' or how their wives usually 'blamed them when they were nothing but innocent.'

-Despite this you'd much rather spend time with him than most of the other clones outside Aizetsu. He actually yells and pushes the others off of you angry he isn't getting a turn to just hold their wife. Does it give you headaches? Yes. Does it terrify you? Definitely. Would you rather silently let Sekido hold you and listen to all of his complaints than listen to Karaku make another innuendo or have Hantengu get your dress wet again as he clung onto you? ABSOLUTELY! At least Sekido doesn't smother you as much as the others.

-However he's ALWAYS nitpicking on the things he hates you do that make him annoyed or angry. Have a vase he doesn't like? Complain! You don't have enough raw meat ready for your 'husband's' dinner? Complain! Karaku and Urogi hold you too long? COMPLAIN! He never threatens you unlike Urami, after all he hates to think about you being upset with him. But sometimes he gets so angry with the others it starts a fight and parts of your home is damaged.

"Can't you just appreciate what I'm trying to do for you!?"

KARAKU:

-(For this instance of Karaku I'm keeping him strictly the clone of Relaxation because everything I write is sfw) Karaku is one of the main three you see most often. Mostly you only see Hantengu however since Sekido and Karaku are the first two clones that appear they're the main two clones you see.

-Karaku is giddy and like Hantengu is overbearingly clingy. He's always slinging an arm around you or taunting Sekido into blowing up again much to his and Urogi's amusement. He's the main culprit of why you have so many headaches because despite his relaxed personality he's...TOO laid back around you.

-You'll find him splayed across YOUR bed napping and if you ask him to move he only laughs with a relaxed smile and offers that you can join him. More than once this has lead you to end up sleeping on the floor because the other clones and Hantengu are taking the guest bed.

-He has ZERO filter let's just say. He's too relaxed and ok with many innuendos and jokes about your figure or at your expense making you shutter and start to prefer Sekido and Aizetsu's presence over his. It always rules the anger clone into a fight and makes Urogi laugh much to your dismay and horror.

-He's upset and confused by why you always avoid him leading him to want more physical contact much to your uncomfort. An arm around your shoulders or waist, patting your head, sudden hugs- He's hurt when you always scramble away to duck behind the nearest clone that isn't him or Urogi. He's very dense even if Sekido bluntly tells him you don't like that.

-One got smacked by a frying pan while you were doing dishes and he kissed your cheek suddenly. Urogi still makes fun of him for it.

"You need to relax and quite being so uptight all the time, Baby.~"

UROGI:

-Out of all seven of them Urogi is the one who makes all of them keep an eye on him including Karaku who's usually relaxed. The thing is Urogi gets bored easily unlike Karaku who's relaxed 24/7 and doesn't need to be entertained. However because he's constantly doing antics or things that make him happy and he's overjoyed to finally be getting a wife...The others keep an eye on him like a pack of watchdogs.

-More than once you've gotten scratched by his talons. Not on purpose but sometimes he's so excited about you he ends up scratching you with his talons causing Sekido to rage and beat him to a cooked chicken casserole as Karaku and Aizetsu bandage your teary eyed self.

-His birb instincts take over a lot of the time he's out. One time you shrieked and ended up crying when he brought you a bunny he hunted out of instinct. He was confused and heartbroken when you didn't like it but didn't do it again after another round of Sekido yelling at him and seeing how unhappy it made you.

-Other bird husbandry includes him doing those weird birb mating dances much to Karaku's laughter and your confusion. He also builds a nest high in a tree. More than once you get carried up there shrieking and end up clinging to the tree out of fear of falling as the four argue. Karaku once tried blowing you down with his fan only to get smacked over the head Sekido. Aizetsu had to be the one to climb up and coax you into hanging onto him as he climbed down.

-This happens a few more times before you're ultimately freed of them but it doesn't happen too often anymore after the first time because the others keep a firm eye on Urogi while he's out.

-Joins Karaku in his antics of being clingy just to annoy Sekido. He finds it funny and gets a kick out of riling him up. However it saddens him when that only pushes you further away from both of them.

"Don't be such a a killjoy. You're acting just like Sekido."

AIZETSU:

-The clone who you mostly trust. Aizetsu is an interesting case. He's still as delusional as the others but he's not oblivious to the fact despite your remaining kindness (outta fear) your 'relationship' is making you unhappy, stressed, and possibly depressed. He knows the signs being the clone of sorrow. Does he do anything about this? No. He's still delusional as said and believes that you're the one for them and somehow he can make this work. He just needs to be patient. As I said, they're all delusional.

-He becomes the go to clone you prefer to interact with. While he does nothing to stop the 'relationship', he doesn't cause you headaches or nitpicks like Sekido, he's not as prone to sudden antics or make innuendo jokes like Karaku and Urogi, he certainly does threaten you like the two times you see Urami, and while a bit clingy he is WAY less than Hantengu. If anything most your bonding time is him just silently listening to you vent. If the others weren't included or he wasn't a demon you might've actually dated him.

-He's the go to clone whenever you're crying, need space, or if the others can't console you. If you're trying to escape the others and Sekido isn't near, he's the first one you hide behind. He knows it's sad behavior but he can't help but feel proud you trust him so much out of everyone, and how sad his brother's behavior makes him.

-The downsides though is that in a similar way to how Sekido complains about anything you do that annoys him, he tells you that anything you do that that he finds annoying makes him sad. Give Sekido more attention? You're making him sad. Talking about how you like your favorite dress? You're making him sad. Want to do anything that doesn't involve Aizetsu? YOU'RE MAKING HIM SAD! You start to also get tired of that part of him quickly.

"You're making me sad acting out like this."

ZOHAKUTAN:

-Like Urami you only ever meet Zohakutan twice in the year and a half you and Hantengu are 'married'. The first time you ever see him is also the first ever time you meet all the clones. After two hours of being petrified and having Karaku and Urogi fond over you, Aizetsu silently watching outside of introducing himself and saying their behavior is making him sad, Sekido complaining at them, Urami subtly threatening you, and Hantengu hiding/being clingy you think it can't get much more worse or terrifying. You are dead wrong.

-After subconsciously listening to the other six talk to you for a few hours, Zohakutan wants to meet the new wife too. So Sekido under his constant nudging, absorbs three of the others making you faint again. When you wake up later, the four young men are gone and Urami also disappeared. All that's left if Hantengu's tiny form shivering in the corner and a young boy that's old enough to be your younger brother is staring down at you. Scowling. "It's about time. I hate being kept waiting!"

-You quickly learns that this is just another clone. He's just as delusional too. No!! I'm not shipping him but his delusions make him see you the same as Hantengu. Weak, innocent, something that needs to be protected at all costs. So while he's not a romantic yandere he is a platonic yandere who deems you are not to be harmed under any costs.

-He absolutely HATES Hantengu's past wives, and sees you as the innocent angel Hantengu deludes himself into seeing you as. They share the same main brain so this thought process extends to Zohakutan too.

-You only see him briefly both times, around ten to fifteen minutes for each encounter before he goes back to being dormant in Hantengu. The first time was to just introduce himself to you. The second was right before their mission. He wanted to assure you that because of him all those demon slayers who dare hurt innocent people like you 'and Hantengu' would be dead. This only makes you more scared of him however. Thankfully that was the last time you saw Zohakutan or any of them for that matter.

"I hate those who prey upon the truly weak ones such as you. All evil scum shall perish."

[sylvieserene]

Sadly… White Lily Cookie has always been demonized in the CRK Fandom since the very beginning of the game’s releases.

There’s a lot of misogyny in every fandom, (It's not only something that happens in shipping communities) and It’s extremely common for the female characters to be demonized by the majority for just existing. A female character can do one little thing and she’ll be deemed as the most evil person alive. Look at Mabel from Gravity Falls, or Rose Quartz or any female cast!

As for shipping? It's a common thing for ships, mainly Yaoi ships, that a female character is written to be either horrible & cruel, or just existing as a tool to help the male cast get together and nothing else because they're getting in the way of the Yaoi pairing.

Ever since CRK had a Resurgence in popularity due to Shadow Milk, it resulted in a lot of newer and very, very young fans (mainly Tiktok) who don’t understand how fandom etiquette works or haven't been in a fandom long enough to understand how they’re supposed to behave. Which often leads to much drama annd ship wears happening now.

I perfed when the community was still calm, small, and relaxed because drama and ship wars back then didn't happen as much as now. Sorry for any grammar and spelling mistakes, English isn't my first language as I’m still learning.



Exactly this. Female characters aren't seen as actual characters but rather vessels/objects.

Just when WL was released, a good portion of the CRK fandom called her as a "pick me" (which again repeated during ES's release) for basically no reason.

Even in WL fandom, while her hate is ongoing, there's also a portion of the fandom who won't listen to any criticism of WL's actions and would actively justify them instead of acknowledging that yeah there she screwed up. They are hell bent on proving she's perfect to the point they'd gladly call you a misogynistic hater if you question her actions. Personally, I was blocked by several people on discord just because I criticized some of WL's actions (some of which she also admits are wrong btw) and I was asked to seek help (with massive support from these fans to the guy who said it) and ofc, the classic "you are just misogynistic and a hater" and then there's the victim card when you try to refute it which is smth like "omg stop no one will like you if you report this".

They are seriously of the belief that WL is a Mary Sue and is flawless when her entire thing is about having countless flaws.

So in general, people just hate complex characters and just want a black and white picture instead of acknowledging the grey in between. It's insanely stupid and disappointing. Half of the fandom doesn't UNDERSTAND her character. Even her so called "super fans".

I have been in SU fandom and while it's hell, Idt things are as bad as things are in the CRK fandom which while can be pointed to the younger audience but it's still disappointing as heck.

I really want ppl to stop treating female characters as objects and acknowledge the fact that YES THEY CAN DO MISTAKES AND THEIR LIVES DONT HAVE TO REVOLVE AROUND A MAN!!

Stop saying "Omg ___ should stay the hell away from WL!" And "the only person WL should be with ___!!"

If you are a fan of WL, have the guts to admit what she did wrong and if you are a fan of her, accept her as is and stop making her life revolve around a Ship + male in her life. If you can't see her beyond your shipping preferences, y'all have a problem and I'm gonna say it. Stop cherry picking the good aspects of her and denying the flaws. If you are her fan, like her as a whole while accepting the flaws.

[danmei-confessions]

i cannot understand most ppl who like bingjiu (luo binghe x shen jiu).

theoretically, i can understand the appeal of them as toxic yaoi even if it doesn't appeal to me personally - adult bingge having a twistex psychosexual fixation on this figure of loathing from his childhood, yeah i understand - the ppl who i dont get are the ones who try to turn it into something sweepingly romantic like bingqiu. sy and sj are different characters. having binghe act a different way in a fic in order to stop original sqq hurting him is gross victim-blamey narratively, but it also just doesn't make sense to me; binghe is not important to shen jiu except as an object of envy and resentment for his seeming inability to fail in his cultivation despite everything. the one who needs to change his behaviour to start the healing and break the cycle for shen jiu is yue qi, not binghe. yue qi is the one who sj thought loved and cared for him when they were both at their lowest, only to believe later it wasn’t true because yqy refused to reveal that he was impulsive and failed him. by now he has given in to and is set in the deepdown belief that the entire rest of the world has beaten into him, that he is an unlovable monster hiding himself behind silk robes and fans - some extraneous prodigy disciple (who he only took in to ruin, to pay him back for getting the opportunity shen jiu didn't, to try and prove to himself that anyone would fall low when under a master with malicious intent) admiring that facade wouldn't matter to him.

and binghe didn't stay a 'white lotus' as a disciple the whole way through his disciplehood, indeed i think a big sum of that appearance was fawning behaviour to try and regain his master's favour, that slowly became the cover for more and more resentment in pidw proper. it was only after literally taking a hit of qi-crippling poison for him that shen qingqiu really managed to fully win binghe over in canon and make the wary hope of his master's attitude change into sincere total care for the man as a figure of love in his life. the original sqq would never have done such a thing, and binghe would never have grown to care enough for the resentful teacher trying to kill him to be willing to look past his abuse and excuse it because of a sob story.

i guess it's just another case of ppl using the characters as dolls to smoosh together rather than trying to base it at least somewhat on canon. i just usually see that in fandoms where the source text is really quite bad so it's only good as a toybox to take characters from. sv is rly good, the pathos for the characters laid out and indirectly implied in the novels and the extras is so compelling, and i can't understand not prefering to try to explore that rather than just making shen jiu into an entirely agencyless meowmeow rather than a man who is willing to choose to be seen as evil and act cruelly, over being without choice and weak and vulnerable (even in the end, he chooses to let himself be imprisoned, chooses to self-destruct before letting someone else force it on him), and bingge isn't just a mindless dog desperate for love /no matter what/. the world - and shen jiu - crushed his childish hope for a peaceful domestic life, now he will crush them and force them to kneel before him in turn (or try to in shen jiu's case). they have parallel issues because it's a self-reproducing cycle violence of ppl being crushed down and having nobody recognise what care they needed and be willing to give it to them.

i suppose it boils down to the fact that other often crack-ily cutesified fanon couples - take gongzhi, or jiuyuan - don't have nearly so complex, so rich a relationship in canon that is such a total antithesis to that treatment. at the end of the day of course i'm not gonna go near these ppls fics, fanarts and ruin their spaces because this is a discussion of fiction not a battlefield, i'm just stating an opinion based on the actual text (which i admittedly adore) and my interpretation of it as of my most recent reread

.

[weeb-polls-with-pip]

Autistic Anime Boys Prelims - Propaganda Division - Group 2

Propaganda:

Kyouya -

"what's there to say? you know him. you love him. vote kyoya."

Rinnosuke -

"Rinnosuke Morichika lives in an overly-cluttered curio shop, and has a special interest in making magical inventions. Since he doesn’t live in a modern setting— but a pocket dimension slightly disconnected to the outside world— whenever a modern item shows up in his shop via spiriting away, he can obsess over it for extended periods of time. He is quite blunt without realizing it, even to people he cares for. He also has a special ability to generally understand the name and use of any item he touches (though this backfires sometimes, he thought a Gameboy was a doomsday device once)."

Fuuta -

"okay look theres so many fucking signs hes autistic. he cannot tell tone and often doesn't know how to react to stuff which is a major point in his character id say. he was asked if he remembered his victim's name (hes a murderer. oops!) and his response was something along the lines of "Of course I do. I saw it everywhere." because he did not understand that they wanted to know what it was since it wasnt directly stated. im convinced that hoodies are a comfort object of his because i genuinely have not seen him without one except for one time. also hes canonically a chronically online twitter user. also he gets really passionate about his interests. also not really related but everyone in the fandom agrees hes transgender but no one can agree on what way. ive seen every single gender hc for this dude. vote kajiyama fuuta for this sopping wet poor little meow meow of a man."

Hansum -

"He's just a very odd and strange lad, can't remember names well, is an alien (mild spoiler), he's very popular, obsessed with Doritos and becomes their mascot, just refers to everyone as humans which is a mood, and is completely socially oblivious."

Miyuki -

"Relatable neurodivergent-Gifted Child syndromeTM case with all the superiority-inferiority complex that results. A chronic show-off and scheming strategist with a lowkey hopeless romantic dramatic aspect to him, silly cool and pathetic in a very hilarious way. Shirogane has a trademark glare purely thanks to his eyebags as he runs on coffee everyday having to support his family with multiple jobs in addition to class, on top of student council president duties. He's kind and an obsessive perfectionist who fills his entire wall with the weirdest motivational posters. Shirogane is very devoted to his love. He likes penguins (Kaguya and him is peak asd4asd and bi4bi btw)."

Kirito -

"He's autistic and bisexual as hell, and there's a good bit of trans coding in him 🥺

Autism coding: Bro's literally got a sword and swordfighting hyperfixation where, despite playing a game that focuses around guns, he still chooses to use a sword!! We also see him completely missing Asuna's flirting at first (he tells her she could have just checked her friendlist to make sure he was alive, in response to her tracking him down to see him)

Bi coding: Dual wielding swords is literally a euphemism in Japan for bisexuality; and Kirito initially tries to hide the fact he can dual wield out of fear of how the people he's close to will view him (and once he reveals it to them and they accept it, he begins to be more open about it.) Also in the Underworld arc he becomes very close with Eugeo to the point of living with him (and sharing a bed on occasion), and there are several parallels between Eugeo and Asuna, and they're so gay for each other that despite the anime having only a toned down version of it, they're still very affectionate (Also of note is that Eugeo is the only guy in SAO canon to consistently have a 'laying in bed with Kirito' talk CG in the spinoff games) (There's more but it's spoilers and this is a shortened version)

Trans coding: Kirito is very trans coded in the light novel (which shows Kirito's thoughts in much greater detail than the anime) Aincrad arc reveals that Kirito explicitly Does Not Like his real face, and dislikes how feminine it looks (he mentions that its led to him and his cousin being mistaken for sisters) And in Phantom Bullet arc, he's visibly uncomfortable at being mistaken for a girl due to his avatar's appearance, and in response to being misgendered he briefly panics and checks to make sure his chest flat (at least in the anime adaptation) 🏳️‍⚧️"

Shirou -

"Has one goal in life and ignores almost everything in favor of trying to fulfil that goal."

Keith -

"Speaks in a way that is seen as weird and has mannerisms others think is funny. He struggles with not being taken seriously by others because of this and many of the things others say goes over his head. He struggles to connect with other people because of these things. His entire arc in the second film is about him deciding that the people who don't accept him for who he is aren't worth it and that he's going to continue being himself."

Junpei -

"for other fans of this series, I know the more obvious representation here may be Luou, Junpei is So Good. his special interest is ballet and he has so many hangups involving how his family sees him and how other boys his age interpret him to the point that his idea of masculinity is extremely narrow and he enforces social rules on himself to mask and keep people from realizing that he loves something that Isn't Manly. he misinterprets social cues and takes things literally, like assuming that when Miyako asked him to dance with her she meant Right This Minute rather than as a pair in the studio. for some reason the point where he cuts his hair super short to prove his devotion to ballet is also sticking with me, I think maybe it's the combination of the way it's normal for boys/men in Japan to do that, yet Junpei didn't realize that kind of attitude/action didn't suit ballet at all? he wasn't aware that the context was completely different. Junpei also doesn't act or pretend very well, he's gotta put his whole entire ass into his roles, which he then proceeds to get TOO into and cause a lot of trouble, without giving too much away! he's really relatable to me as someone who's socially anxious but very skilled at masking, and seeing him become more comfortable with himself and start to show how he really feels is so inspiring to me."

Kazuma -

"He may be (wildly) misguided but his intentions are good kinda! He’s just the Guy of all time idk how to explain it."

[kobitoshiningneedle]

I think the tumblr Ace Attorney fandom has a weird stance on Dahlia Hawthorne. Even more so, on her culpability, to the point that some people claim that she was justified in killing Terry Fawles and even Valerie

First of all, we need to consider the main message of the games first and our personal sense of justice second, because Dahlia, as much as any other AA character, operates within the games' own narrative, and has consequences according to it. And Ace Attorney makes it quite clear that any human life is valuable and no one has a right to take it (illegally). This message was accentuated in TGAA mostly, but even in the trilogy we have Edgeworth who says "everyone deserves a fair trial"

And (I think I need to say before someone throws tomatoes at me) I'm not here to defend Terry Fawles and say that he didn't do anything wrong. He pretty much did, and the fact that he started to date his young pupil is pretty horrible and brow-raising, even if it's unclear who initiated it. It's also possible that Valerie was a neglectful sister, and that Dahlia's whole family was abusive and insufferable to her. The most important thing to understand here is that even if Terry and Valerie were all-round terrible people, killing Valerie and manipulating Fawles made Dahlia a criminal. Objectively.

The second point I see people miss is how disastrous was the collateral damage Dahlia caused in her attempts to cover herself. Poisoning Diego. Killing Doug. Attempting to kill Phoenix. Attempting to kill Maya. And the question is: in what way did any of these people do Dahlia injustice? What is their fault?

They didn't have any. By the time of T&T timeline she was pretty much a person poisoned by her hatred and fear. The main tragedy of her character is that she spiraled down from a mistreated schoolgirl who wanted to run away to a malicious woman who would stoop to crime whenever she needs to. I think this is a solid example of an anti-arc, in which Dahlia's fate was indeed shaped by her unfortunate circumstances in many ways, but! She still had agency in her actions, and having agency means having responsibility

To clarify: I don't hate hate Dahlia, even though my disagreement with the fandom lies in the amount of her hateability. I think she's fascinating and is a good foil to Mia. She pretty much IS a tragic character, and we actually have a good insight into her via Iris' recollections before the final trial segment - the person who probably understood Dahlia the most. Realizing that Dahlia was yet another victim of Fey family drama, much like our Maya (even if in other ways) adds some sympathy points to her. But I have a firm opinion that she wasn't exactly redeemable at the end of her criminal path

So, do I think Dahlia's character goes beyond the crazy-psycho femme fatale? Yes, even if the game wasn't really forthcoming about her childhood misfortunes as much as we would want to. Do I think Dahlia deserved condemnation in the end of BTTT? Yes, and I personally didn't expect Phoenix or Mia to pat her head after being responsible for the deaths of 4 people and (the other important part that adds to her hateability) feeling absolutely no remorse towards people that had nothing to do with her tragedy. Having complexity doesn't necessarily mean Dahlia is secretly better as a person, and understanding why a character became the way they are doesn't mean we should sympathize with or forgive them

[crustyfloor]

Previous anon back, thank you for explaining those other critisms. I really like Hyuna and feel like one of the main problems people have with her character is that... she didn't have the kind of reaction they wanted a victim of the things she went through to have. I don't think Wiege undermined her pain because I don't think you can understand Hyuna without acknowleding what has happened to her + what we are shown in Wiege. She has her worldview because she was able to reconcile humanity's ability to do awful things with the love she's always had for mankind.

Hyuna has never been vengeful or hateful even when it would have been justified for her to be. I get that it can be uncomfortable to see someone who has suffered the way Hyuna has not fully hate the person who hurt them but not all victims are the same. Hyuna doesn't forgive Luka, and her still loving him is not an endorsement of abuse or her excusing his actions; she just understands why he turned out the way he did, "Someone who only knows suffering and can only inflict the same." and feels sympathy for him as a fellow human who has suffered under the same system and because they were/used to be friends.

Exactly, Anon, exactly!!! I expressed this before in my og post but I have a little more, I also think many people are quick to assume the worst, because they have expectations or unbudging worldviews, it's okay that they had that, it's okay if they were potentially disappointed with HyunA, but I have a main problem with people who deem her a shallow character or generalize her because they can't accept that she's just a complex character, I've seen the way people handle specifically (female) characters who subvert from an typical standpoint in explorative medias like these, for instance one of my other favorite characters from Milgram being Yuno, to put a long story short she's had multiple abortions at some point in her life whilst she was a teenager participating in compensated dating/sex work, she's stuck in a inescapable jail-like system in apparently space called milgram for that "crime" where she would be judged for it (also a music-based media) and she has survived to the third trial but currently she's come to grapple with the fact that she's in milgram for that reason and she has complicated feelings about her abortion after some major events that caused shifts in her personality (ie. The death of someone she cared about, getting familiar with other murderers because there's nowhere else for them to go) , and you know what people do? They assumed the author wanted to push pro-life messaging through her because she wasn't adamantly confident in her decisions. And that wasn't the case, in the moments of her trial 3 teaser, they really disregarded the fact that she was an 18-year-old, who was in bad mental condition before the main timeline, and whilst she was a sex worker, getting many abortions as a result. And she lives in Japan (and Japan tends to have bad opinions about women like her, Yamanka intentionally wrote them so that their environment affects how they ultimately think.)

People are quick to assume there is an underlying message the author is trying to convey when themes like these are rightfully explored in media to their potential (And truthfully I understand where they're coming from, again, this happens) but really in these cases I appreciate that the authors are just trying to explore unique viewpoints, I believe to see these characters is to see them from an objective, understanding angle even if it's not something you particularly agree with, media from different people across the world is also there to challenge you right? (And to somewhat quote Yamanka here) Vivinos and Yamanka don't write these characters to say "This is how all people should be," but rather, "This is just how she/he ended up" in both series that aim to explore the humanity and complexity within characters that function as human as us, not all humans are going to apply to a certain formula.

And it really annoys me that the second HyunA didn't do what they wanted (ie. let luka die with a smile on her face because she's such a badass like that) when everything in her lore even before wiege proved she was nothing heartless and nothing vengeful, they automatically turned their back on her, disregarding the fact that all the characters of alien stage are portraying victims, she is still portraying a victim in a really really fucked up world, yet, this is just her emotional journey and how she ended up (even if I have certain reservations about both of them in that sense, I can appreciate the realism and the respect put on both of their stories)

(Funny thing is, both Yuno and HyunA were regarded as the girlbosses in their fandom before they had their huge development, now the fans are all over the place)

[itsriotmotherfuckers]

Hello hey, I was wondering why you don't like "canon" Regulus. I always wanted ask someone who doesn't like him but most of them are pretty hostile and you seem like a person with sense.

I don't actually like fanon Regulus because he's just canon Sirius with Slytherin AU.

The first time I have read the books I just thought "poor child" about him and nothing else. And when you read into it more *from his three lines* he doesn't seem that bad, just a complex morally gray character. Like James and Sirius themselves, just backwards. I want to know your perspective.

I’ll be so honest here, but know I mean all of this with respect!

Regulus believed everything Walburga and Orion told him with no hesitation. He willingly joined the Death Eaters when he was 16 and fully agreed with all of their ideals. Even his parents didn’t fully agree with joining the Death Eaters. He sacrificed himself in the end and changed his mind just before he died, but he didn’t actually help at all. It would’ve been easier for Harry if he’d just left to horcrux. He was mean to Sirius for no reason and was a supremacist. Yes, he died young. Yes, he ended trying to do the right thing. Yes, he was a kid. That doesn’t change the fact that he was an objectively bad person for most of his life.

When Sirius called him “soft” in OOTP, it wasn’t because he was a sweet little boy, it’s because he was a coward who believed everything he was fed. He had no qualms with hurting people and was literally a prick. People have a weird perception of him because of fannon, but he was shit in cannon.

I don’t like Slytherin-Sirius-fannon Regulus, but I do like flawed-character-with-good-development-who-ends-up-a-good-person-fannon Regulus (should’ve specified that earlier lol). I have a billion mixed feelings about cannon Regulus. He’s a bad person, but he’s also a victim, but I can’t stand by what he did when he had Sirius in the same house, who was, undoubtably (based on everything we know about him), trying to help him onto the right path.

Anyways, no hate if you like cannon Regulus, I just don’t get it. He fascinates me and, if he were real, I’d love to study him, which is the most I can really say. I imagine that the second version of fannon Regulus is the one most people like (and some assume is cannon Regulus).

[dayurno]

I think it's wild the fandom at large depicts Riko's abuse of Kevin as never being of a physical nature before the hand-breaking despite textual evidence to the contrary from RIKO HIMSELF. It's like people can't understand why Kevin could still love Riko after that, so it must have never been "real hurt"

(also, even if it was only ever emotional, Kevin still would be a victim. Please stop comparing Kevin and Jean's traumas 2k24)

ive been waiting for myself to be in a sons of exy mood to talk about this and today is the day!

two things: one, i think people have an easier time making peace with kevin's character if they believe he was not as severely abused as he was. i think it's conflicting to fandom's characterization of him at large to acknowledge that kevin was famous and revered in his field at the same time that he was being kept captive and routinely violated by both his caretakers and his similars. both things can (and often are, with celebrities) be true! it is very intentional, in my opinion, that the only real power kevin has ever known was in court, peforming the duty of his family name

the second thing is that kevin and riko are just as similarly complex and dual-sided as kevin's character is. it is hard to conflate the words brother and abuser together because they are supposed to be antonyms. kevin himself never properly explains the extent of riko's abuse, and he never tells the stories of before riko's cruelty reached this point either. what ALWAYS gets me is that riko's story didn't die with him — kevin is quite literally the sole keeper of his brother's memory, because he is the only one who has witnessed him both boy and man. so really, if kevin does not want to sully riko's image further, i don't blame him

and lastly because i think this still bears repeating: kevin and jean were more similar than they were ever different. the only reason kevin was ever spared the brunt of riko's cruelty was because he was riko's partner in the duo system, and he was worth nothing to riko if he couldn't keep up. kevin was abused in the same ways jean was, emotionally and psychologically and physically and sexually and culturally. what happened to him was kept behind the door of their dorm room, yes, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. jean is a character in a story who is only allowed to know what he knows — the fact that he isn't aware of the entire extent of kevin's abuse is normal. it is however very telling that the piss on the poor fandom struggled to understand that a character's view of another character is not the objective truth of what happened to them

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 1

Propaganda Under Cut

Mel Medarda

she is the richest woman in piltover who left her family because she didn't agree with the way they did things (conquering and murdering). she sponsors jayce and viktor, and courts jayce, which makes people upset because, you know, jayvik. she and viktor are CANONICALLY parallels with much of their imagery mirroring the other's and they are literally the same height. and people are so weird and misogynist and racist about her. they argue she is manipulating jayce and doesn't actually love him. i am cognitively disabled and cannot explain things well, but, she is so fucking shouldered

Black woman who has a romantic arc with one of the main characters Jayce. Jayce has a best friend called Viktor and their relationship is pretty important plot wise, shown as a direct contrast to his relationship with Mel even though only one is canonically sexual/romantic. So naturally fandom as the transformative safe haven it is villainized Mel horribly coming up with theories about how instead of being a complex morally grey character she's actually evil and just wants to seduce Jayce for Evil Reasons. Since they couldn't use her as a supportive female friend with no personality, others just ignored her existence entirely or acted like Jayce would ditch her for Viktor. Majority of m/m shippers will reduce her down to her relationship with Jayce and an obstacle in the way of JayVik, ironically writing her as a far worse and less complex version of the character we get on screen. The misogyny reeks and combined with the racism? It's a pretty bad case. Only slightly mitigated due to the fact that the main characters of the show are women (and the lead is a lesbian) so thankfully the male focus of fandom is lessened as opposed to filling almost every inch. Still awful to try and search for good Mel content, godspeed girlies with taste.

She's one of the most interesting characters on the show, a rich politician, smart and beautiful and has a really complicated and intriguing relationship with the city's golden boy inventor. unfortunately golden boy has a sickly twink science partner so she gets sidetracked SO BAD

Juno

She's honestly a way deeper character than people give her credit for, her arc is that of acceptance and being true to your heart despite what society thinks of you. Oh yeah and for the record she doesn't stand in the way of Lougosi because of her crush on Legoshi because I honestly think that she was more in love with the idea of being in a same species relationship than she was with Legoshi himself. I'm talking about the part where she falls for Louis and struggles with the knowledge that if she actually pursues him she's gonna be seen as a freak and never reach the social status she strives for. There's a lot to discuss with her character arc but NOOOO let's all just laugh at how she gets no bitches because Beastars fans see Juno as a joke. (I'm not mad I'm not mad it's fine it's fine)

shes cool but she doesnt have good chemistry with her canon love interest and therefore the fandom chalks her up to having no personality whatsoever. they see her as either an obstacle or a sex object basically

Done dirty by the writers and fandom alike

[seriousbrat]

Hear me out on this theory and lemme know what you think!😏😏😏 Ik you love Snape this is no hate love your blog😘 but what if Snape was the one who started bullying the Marauders and that’s how they found out about the spell (Levicorpus) bc aint Lupin say it was a very popular one used amongst students🤨🤨🤨 someone mustve started it 😏 (also a bit weird how its only bullying when its done to Snape eeh)

Hello! Thank you for the message and the love! I don't really agree but I don't mind answering and talking about it!

The thing is that we see how the bullying originated in Prince's Tale, and it wasn't Snape lol. I've said this a lot but we have to think about why the author chose to show what she did, and everything points to the fact that the Marauders victimised Snape at school. If it was supposed to be that Snape started it all/secretly deserved everything, that's what we would have been shown.

Regarding Levicorpus (and Sectumsempra) there's a high likelihood that Snape invented those spells out of a need for self-defence, at least partially. Sectumsempra being "for enemies" and the fact that he uses it on James in SWM is evidence of this. For me this doesn't necessarily mean that he never used those spells maliciously or unprovoked, but the thing is that even if he did it doesn't change the fact that he was bullied, or that what the Marauders did was wrong.

Obviously the Marauders didn't know that Snape invented Levicorpus, so it does seem like it spread independently. Perhaps Snape told Mulciber and Avery about it, perhaps he used it on someone unrelated to the Marauders and someone saw him and it spread from there, who knows. It's not really relevant though imo. Victims of bullying can do shitty things or even be bullies themselves, it's not a black and white situation.

I don't think anyone has claimed that it's only bullying if it's Snape. For instance I think it can be reasonably argued that Snape trying to expose Remus and get him kicked out for being a werewolf is a form of bullying. Later in life he definitely bullied his students. Bullying is just much more complex than "this is the bully and this is the good guy." I get that it's comforting to believe your favourite characters never did anything wrong or that they were justified, but the thing is that it's unnecessary. These aren't real people that you choose to support, they're fictional characters and it's fine to like them even though they did bad things! Realising this will ultimately be more comforting because you won't be fighting a losing battle against your own sense of morality haha. Objectively James and Sirius did bad things, it's just how it is, and they're still good characters.

[chutkiandchotte]

On: The Guptas' Role as Shyam's Accomplices

Or: Why is Khushi appointed, by the Guptas as well as by the show's narrative, as the whole and soul responsible party for the action and decision to hide Shyam's truth?

Khushi, of course, is emotionally closest to the Raizada family and she is Shyam's victim and apparently, that's why the Guptas somehow left it ALL up to her to decide what to do. Well, it's so stupid to say the least. She is so young and traumatized and probably feeling all this misplaced shame in the aftermath of Shyam's disgusting harassment and its implications in Anjali's heartbreak and a public scandal - is it the right state of mind for her to do the objectively right but very difficult thing that is going to make her feel even more responsible for Anjali's pain (even if she's absolutely not)?

Remember that they made Khushi do this all alone as well - which means she now has to go, all by herself, and openly discuss her harassment to the other victim of it, who is most likely to be disbelieving and unsympathetic, not to mention completely traumatized herself - which Buaji might have fucking guessed btw even if Khushi was naive enough to think Anjali would simply believe her and not have a volatile reaction (Anjali would be right in her place to be disbelieving and angry especially since Khushi didn't really have any proof on her).

And the fact that she is emotionally close to the Raizadas actually makes it MORE difficult for Khushi (being who she is) to do the morally right thing - she is swayed by the temptation to keep silence for short-term relief of NOT hurting several people she deeply cares for, and her naviety does the rest by convincing her the long-term will work out too - maybe Shyam will mend his ways after all! It was a bad and morally wrong decision to keep the secret, and the Guptas should have fucking known that and been unequivocally dead set against it.

This is what makes me really uncomfortable as well as angry about this moment - why was this enormous action and decision about their collective future left to Khushi, the youngest member of the family, the most traumatized by all of this? How is being the sole and only one going to reveal to Raizadas, an appropriate responsibility for a freshly traumatized 18-22 year old? Why not go and tell it as a whole family, at last give Khushi some fucking moral support in all this??? Knowing she's going to be inundated with suspicious questions and maybe even anger & insults?

This decision massively affects ALL of their futures. They are all implicated in various ways. Khushi has to constantly be around her harasser, pretending to be nice to him, and lying to all her good friends, betraying their trust. Payal has to keep up this terrible secret for the rest of her life spent with her husband, her love - its an even bigger betrayal of trust!

And then there's Buaji and Garima - the elders - they do not have the excuse of youth and inexperience! Since they consider it their RIGHT to bully the youngsters, especially Khushi, into doing what they want when it suits them, they also carry the responsibility to correctly guide them when they are faced with difficult and challenging decisions that could have consequences the youngsters cannot even comprehend. They felt free to exercise that right when it came to forcing Khushi to marry Shyam, but when it came to the responsibility of PROTECTING Khushi from Shyam, guiding Khushi in a morally complex situation, they utterly failed.

They behaved exactly like Arnav's worst idea of a gold-digging middle class family: posturing about values and morals when it suits them, but when it comes to a real test of principles, they chose to do the easier, morally wrong thing to avoid risk of personal losses.

Shyam is an excellent manipulator and the fandom often terms him a snake, but despite that, he doesn't actually possess magical hypnotizing powers - he is simply very good at honing on people's weaknesses and bringing them out front. All he had to do was lay down the framework of this being a question of Payal's Happiness vs Doing the Right Thing/Protecting Khushi - and it took over their minds. As soon as Shyam spewed his spiel about Payal's possible future of yet another broken marriage and left, Buaji, Garima and Payal too basically knew they did NOT want to tell the truth, they wanted this secret kept. Not even being brave enough to just say it, its like they simply wash their hands off the moral responsibility of this situation, leaving it all up to Khushi to decide.

And with this, they also cemented in Khushi's mind that she truly is alone in all this. After all, if its HER choice to keep Shyam's secret, then she has no right to complain if she faces unpleasant consequences of this decision right? Like, if he continually harasses her afterwards, or if, say, Arnav misunderstands the whole thing and forcefully marries Khushi for 6 months. After all, whatever Khushi may say to herself or others, she knows the truth - she and her family kept that secret primarily because they didn't have the courage to face the unpleasant consequences of speaking up. The shame is Khushi, at least, faces the consequences and feels the guilt about this - but she ends up taking on her family's share of the consequences and guilt too, to tragic results.

[altocat]

Alto and Pumpkin spittin facts today 😤👌

@rottenpumpkin13 put it way more eloquently than I ever could when it comes to Angeal. Huge kudos there. Like seriously, amazing counter to what was a long-running point of complete bullshit in this community.

Sometimes I feel like media literacy really is dead. Some people in this fandom fixate only on certain characters to the point where they lose sight of the fact that just because other characters hurt your blorbo, it doesn't mean you can just write them off as awful or hypocritical or annoying, etc. Sephiroth is objectively MY blorbo. That doesn't invalidate Genesis' issues though. It doesn't invalidate Cloud's. Or Tifa's. Or the hundreds of people Sephiroth butchered in the wake of his meltdown. It's totally fine to accept a level of nuance when it comes to engaging with characters and story. Sometimes, EVERYONE is to blame and EVERYONE is also the victim. That's NEAT. It's DYNAMIC. And it's totally fine to appreciate a wider spectrum of complexity. I encourage it, really.

[xxmothangelxx]

Shady Rambles Dislyte Part 6: A Written Movie Sequal

So, I made this post yesterday, and after I was able to make a reddit post that I feel better summarized my point! It may be a tad pretentious in its writing and I do apologize for that, but still, I hope you enjoy!

As a lover of writing and Dislyte, I've always been unnecessarily invested in the story. Funnily enough, unlike most people the story and characters are really my main reason for not giving up on the game – in spite of all the less than favorable updates – so although many argue the story is sub-par, I quite enjoy it. This love of characters and story has made it so I try to keep up with most events. I'll be honest, I stopped playing the game after Valeria's event (and I have yet to read through the ones that I've missed) but I have since completed Cellblock Chaos so I'm making my way back into the game!

Needless context aside, I wanted to discuss the concept of grey morality and why it always bothered me when it was mentioned in reference to the Shadow Decree, it took me a while to figure out why but I feel that I can now put it into words. It is because the Shadow Decree are objectively an irredeemable terrorist organization that have committed human rights violations so extreme, that in a more realistic world Hyde would have been sentenced to death by firing squad upon arrest.

The issue with grey morality and the concept of an anti-hero is a lot of consumers and fans have the false mindset that if a villain has a 'point' then the villain is any less evil. Now, the issue with that therein lies with the fact that morality is less based on thought and more based on action, it doesn't matter if you have a "moral" way of thinking if your actions don't reflect that. This issue can be seen within the Shadow Decree in abundance, many of the characters have seemingly understandable reasons for being members, but their actions within the group contradict their so-called moral standpoint.

For example, many argue that the reason Hyde isn't a villain is because his research is all for the "greater good", he is an ends justify the means sort of person. However, you then have to take into account that Hyde actively partakes in and encourages human trafficking and non-consensual human experimentation. Does it really matter if it is "for the greater good" if you are actively allowing hundreds of innocents to die for experiments that lead to nothing at all?

I am brought back to two events in particular: Brewster and Yun Chuan's. In both events, it is revealed that the Shadow Decree's crimes run deeper than just bothering the Union and stealing their members.

With Brewster, we find out that Shadow Decree actively buys trafficking victims off what can only be described as a black market and experiments on them in an attempt to turn them into espers. These people do not consent, and are nothing more than cattle to them. Few are "successful" like Brewster, with a majority of them dying from the strain placed upon their bodies. Brewster himself was sold by his abusive father and still suffers immense trauma from his time under Kara.

Yun Chuan's hits closer to home however; as someone with many criticisms of the prison industrial complex – more specifically how inmates are treated – to hear that the Shadow Decree makes deals with prisons to experiment on inmates was incredibly chilling. It was one of the most true to life, realistic portrayals of how deep systemic corruption truly is, especially in how it mirrors the real life abuse of incarcerated people globally.

I simply do not see these as the actions of a "morally grey" group of people that only "want the best". I feel that the reason many are quick to slap the morally grey label onto the Shadow Decree is character bounties, most bounties are slice of life stories that show the characters going about their daily business, of course Ophelia and Catherine seem nicer and more likable. Though you then remember that they bombed an orphanage for virtually no reason and suddenly they seem less like good people.

Now, this isn't me saying that you cannot like them or that liking them reflect poorly on you as a person! I for one am definitely a Shadow Decree apologist haha, my top favorite espers are majority Shadow Decree, and I find them to be an interesting group of people with the potential for great storytelling. With that being said, I feel we as media consumers have a habit of becoming so attached to certain characters that we forget that their actions do indeed play a role in who they are.

To be a part of the Shadow Decree is to say that you are okay with human trafficking, human experimentation, terrorism, weapons smuggling, political corruption, prison industrial system corruption, child murder (remember the orphanage bombing that killed Stewart's lover and also a bunch of children?). The Union is certainly not free of skeletons, their rampant negligence shows this, however I cannot feel comfortable saying that they are in any way just as bad or worse than the Shadow Decree based on everything the Dislyte lore has told us.

TLDR: I believe the reason many argue that the Shadow Decree are morally grey, or that they're even a well-meaning group, is because many of the characters have sad backstories, attractive designs, and cute personalities. Though I cannot agree, because I feel that it disregards all the genuinely horrific (and mostly unnecessary) actions of the group; I don't see how people that bomb orphanages and experiment on trafficking victims can be any less than evil.

With all of that being said I would give my left kidney and run over a baby kitten if it meant that Catherine would blink in my direction.

[sorcerous-caress]

I think Larian should put in some sort of tag to make it clear you're lying or being manipulative in that scene because otherwise I do think it just comes off as very muddled (and a little unfair to people who wanted to play it that way and instead were blindsided by being told they're lying and broken up with)

The reason I read it as manipulation is because that's what Mizora does, and she's using magic to manipulate your physical body so it would make sense if she'd influence your mind as well. She clearly didn't have good intentions and even if you the player have complete control Tav the character I still feel could easily have been read as being manipulated into it with minimal RPing necessary. And just in general I feel like a lot of people would want to play the scene that way

And with Astarion I just don't see the acting when you do that dialogue tree vs other ways to play that scene, like it rather seems like the act drops but that could just be Neil’s acting conflicting with what was actually written

Basically I just feel like cheating and manipulation are both ways to read that scene that make complete sense and it's a little disappointing that the game doesn't make it more obvious that it's not

(also I really hope this doesn't come across as arguing I genuinely think this is an interesting discussion even if I don't agree with your perspective)

Oh no! I am absolutely enjoying this discussion, anon. I love talking about my thoughts and hearing your different ones. I never thought of it as arguing in the slightest, I was actually looking forward to your next reply every time I answered <3 million smooches to you anon I'm having so much fun rn.

And about the dialogue tag thing, I absolutely agree. A lot of people mentioned it too in the game feedback. Even ingame I picked a lot of options that I thought were innocent or meant as a joke only to be met with the fact they meant something completely different and had to reload.

It needs to be clearer when you're lying to someone, flirting with them, being serious, or joking. Remember the hoards of people who tirggeted Gale's romance accidentally by just being nice to him?

Especially about lies, a lot of times I'm confused about the options available because I'm not sure if Tav is making shit up, or if i missed out on a major detail.

And maybe it's subjective.. Someone could argue that you genuinely did believe that Mizora manipulated you because she does leave a mark on you that you never agreed to at the end. I don't see it that way but it's up to interpretation.

I was someone who fell for Astarion's acting during Act 1. All that nice talk and coaxing? His honeyed words to get you to sleep with him? I genuinely took them to heart and believed them. I was like oh he already told me about Cazador so he trusts me and definitely isn't manipulating me ehe!

Throughout all of my first playthrough, I avoided all spoilers and discussions about bg3. I was genuinely eating up all of Astarion's flattery and dialogue. When he confessed to giving me sex in exchange for protection during act 2 i was extremely confused because when did that ever happen?

He seemed very eager in all the sex and flirting scenes?? I didn't get it at all at the time and didn't realise how good of an actor he is.

The only time when I genuinely saw Astarion for who he is ,is when he admits to the fact you would've been one of his victims in the cage in another life at Cazador's palace. Even when surrounded by his mistakes, he deflects any attempt of you to put the guilt on him.

I actually left the game for a week straight. I felt both disgusted with myself for also seeing him as a sex object, i am no better than these people in the cages. Yet also disgusted with him for manipulating both my character and irl me for so long. That's why i feel weird to write nsfw about him even now, I feel weird when I see sexy fanart of him. Astarion is genuinely one of the most complex characters I have ever seen, and I can't simply reduce him to a victim or a sexy vampire. His writing team and voice actor work is phenomenal.

I did the cheating on him with Mizora, too, just out of curiosity and reloaded myself after. I felt very assured when he said he didn't mind and didn't blame me, that sleeping with a devil is a chance you don't simply miss. I trusted his words because I didn't know better.

Only after when I finished the game, saw more posts about him that go in depth about his character and the many many ways he manipulates you in to ensure his own safety, did I actually see him fully as a whole person.

That's why I'm doubtful of even his sympathy during the manipulated Mizora option, the delivery doesn't show a hint of lying in the slighest I agree. But also for me none of his other canonly manipulative lines show any hint of lying for me.

Remember the orgy in Sharess Caress? Where he is all enthusiastic after the Cazador is dealt with, but during it he completely zones out? Doesn't the fact he tells you to "let him join next time" after the Mizora event ring any similar alarms?

I think in the most generous cases possible, he isn't aware he is manipulating you. He is just saying what he thinks would please you. It clearly would make you happy to have the drow threesome even while he himself was sex replused since act 2 and until act 3. Like how it would make you happy for him to not make a big deal out of the cheating.

But it's interesting that you can see honesty in his responses. If anything, it shows that you're piecing together the slivers of truth he lets slip out during his acts because even he himself can still make mistakes and reveal the truth amidst a lie.

There is also another theory!

Astarion doesn't care about sexual cheating, only romantic cheating.

During the Halsin poly dialogue, he gets really happy when you reassure him that he is the one you love. The one your heart lies with. Then tells you to go fuck Halsin as much as you want.

So in this scenario the fact Mizora is a devil matters a lot because Astarion says it himself, devils do not fall in love.

Maybe that's why he was all giddy and smiles, knowing fully it's just sex, something he barely puts value on anymore since he has been freed of i, and doesn't mind you sleeping with devils.

At the end of the day, yeah, like you said, cheating and manipulation are two valid ways to read into the conversation. It did feel rushed a bit, we didn't even get to actually fuck Mizora Goddammit! If i wanted freaky weird magic sex I would've fucked the local wizard instead!

Mizora's intentions are just to make your lover jealous, she admits she just wanted to stir the pot and saw you as a target.