#...These thoughts have nothing to do with how I see Chara's role in Deltarune (yes they do).

[random-autie-fangirl]

Another Chara! -Demon/murder run version!

@idrawgaystffs

"Right, you are a great partner. We'll be together forever, won't we?"

(...It's supposed to look like they're reaching out to Frisk. Apparently that's something really hard to draw though so I might have shot myself in the foot there)

[tachvintlogic]

Who has control when? Undertale/ Deltarune meta

Undertale and Deltarune play around with the relationship between the Player and the Player Character (PC). There's Kris, who has their own personality and can disapprove of actions the Player forces them to do, and in Undertale there's 3 people attached to the PC who could be in control at any one time.

So here are my thoughts trying to parse out clearly who has control when.

The Player

The Player. What are their motivations? What have they done? Are they evil? These are nonsense questions because the player is not a character, the player is a role.

The player is me; the player is you; the player is everyone who has ever played these games. When you boot up Undertale or Deltarune, you take on the role of the player. Is the player evil? I don't know, are you? We cannot talk about the player in theories or metas without acknowledging that the player is us.

(Which is why it's confusing and irksome when I see analyses that treat "the player" as if they are a character who definitely did certain things.)

So when playing Undertale or Deltarune, what do you have control over? On desktop, you can use the arrow keys on your keyboard to make the player character move, move the red soul in battle, and navigate menus. You can press C to open the menu, X to exit the menu (and in Deltarune you can hold X to walk faster), and press Z to select options and interact with objects.

You can save the game, reload a save, reset, close the game, and open the game.

You may be thinking those are just the controls, and yes, they are. I mean, what else did you expect? The choices we make while playing are on us.

There are times when we do not have control. For example, we don't have control in cutscenes. We don't have control of Susie during sections when we're focusing on her (tho we do have dialogue options and choices that do nothing).

Then there's the ending of Deltarune chapter 1, where the red soul is separated from Kris's body. If you try to move around, you'll see that the red soul does move, suggesting that our control of the player character is dependent on the red soul inside them.

Frisk/Kris

And now the player character, the PC, the player avatar. I feel these two have a similar level of control over their own bodies when you're involved.

(As a note, when I refer to "the player character" I'm referring to what Frisk/Kris's body does, not what they choose to make it do.)

They have control during cutscenes and have control when the red soul is separated from their body like at the end of the Deltarune chapters. (No, I'm not entertaining theories about Kris is being controlled by someone else when they're in shambling zombie mode.)

They also control how they interact with things. You can press Z to make them interact with things, but they have discretion over how that command is interpreted. (See: Kris refusing to look in the Asriel room in Queen's castle.)

Both are "silent" protagonists. Their speech is limited to dialogue options chosen by us, and we are not privy to anything else they say. If they say something we didn't tell them to say, we have to infer from the dialogue of others. (For example, Frisk telling Asriel that their name is Frisk.)

However, there's a key difference between Frisk and Kris.

Frisk doesn't show a lot of personality, and what personality they show depends a lot of what you do. They basically turn into the person that matches your choices, the person we mold them into. (See: how the narration of interacting with Mad Dummy before the fight changes depending on your LOVE)

(That narration is actually quite interesting. Not only does the narration about Frisk's thoughts change, "You feel bad [for tapping the dummy]" at LV 1 vs "[punch the dummy] Feels good" at LV8 or more, but also the actions. How the player character interacts with objects depends on LOVE, number of people killed, and the route.)

We know that Chara climbed the mountain, and it wasn't for a happy reason. In fact, it's very likely they were planning on committing suicide. Frisk and all the other children who fall into the underground are likely from the same settlement.

I wouldn't be surprised if Frisk was also planning on dying there.

If you heckle Snowdrake, there's a chance you'll get this line:

You tell the Snowdrake that no one will ever love them the way they are... | They struggle to make a retort, and slink away utterly crushed

Oof. Frisk is probably like, 10? I'm concerned where they got this from. Remember, at the end of pacifist, your options are to either travel the world as an ambassador or stay with Toriel. Going back to Frisk's human parents isn't presented as an option.

So they probably didn't have a good home life, and now they're relying on you to get them through the underground and to the end. Whether you force them to kill in order to do that will affect their attitude on killing and whether killing monsters is okay.

In short, Frisk is a very small, impressionable child who is what we make them.

Meanwhile, Kris has a very concrete personality and history, and while it doesn't show on their spite, it's clear from their facial expression, tone of voice, and the narration when you make them do something they don't approve of. (See: Basically most of the normal route dialogue choices in chapter 2 and how Susie reacts to Kris's tone of voice.)

They're not impressionable like Frisk was, and are just tolerating our possession of their body in the game. They have stronger opinions on what we should and shouldn't be making them do.

Still, neither is keen to scream at the top of their lungs that they've been possessed.

Chara

Go read A CHARActer Analysis first and then come back.

Unfortunately, the user that made that post was deactivated so here's a link to a reblog that has all the raw text and here's a link to a google drive with the original post screenshotted by @thepilotdogee

Yes, I know it's long but it's also the best analysis of Chara's character that I know of.

Now, I like the Chara as narrator theory, and considering that they tell us they woke up near the beginning and looked to us for guidance, it explains the narrator's attitude in pacifist vs genocide runs very well. I also generally agree with the conclusions made by this analysis.

However, there are a few sticking points.

For one, I think who's doing what when we as players don't have control in cutscenes is more ambiguous. Are the actions performed by the player character in genocide that we associate with Chara done by Chara or by Frisk?

Chara still mostly uses "you" to narrate what Frisk does when you have them interact with something in genocide, so Frisk still has control over how they interpret your commands. Did Frisk kill Flowey and Asgore at the end of genocide or did Chara? We have two characters who aren't us that could potentially have control during cutscenes, and the actions of one are always relayed to us by the other.

My personal belief is that Chara had basically zero control beyond narration and the UI elements. Chara isn't aware that Frisk is not us in genocide (possibly even in pacifist) because Frisk's attitude and thoughts always align with our choices.

(In the CHARActer analysis, it is explained how your actions as the player tell Chara and Asriel whether it was okay for Asriel to refuse to kill the humans when they died, and by being a pacifist you are showing them that choosing not to kill was better. Meanwhile, Frisk is relying on you to survive, and goes along with whatever you seem to think is correct. Both could've taken the initiative to do the last kills of genocide because both consider you their guide.)

...Then if you do genocide, you have to give Chara control of Frisk's soul to reset the world.

This means that at the end of a true pacifist, instead of Frisk getting the reins back to their soul, they now belong to Chara. Chara, who wants to force us to experience consequences for our actions, does the only thing they can do to affect us, which is to ruin the ending.

[fellcharas]

my deltarune theory(ies?)

DISCLAIMER: i am not an actual theorist and i wrote this all from memory! this is taking into consideration the possibility that chara is involved in the making of deltarune (1, 2) as well as other widely believed theories (gaster being involved)

putting a read more because this shit is LONG so buckle up

start with the basics?

something i was thinking about last night is how it’s interesting that we don’t know very much about susie’s home life or her reason for being “the bully.” while there are certainly hints that point to it not being great at all, there’s nothing directly confirming what it’s like.

however something that many people have pointed out is that through the numerous odd similarities deltarune and undertale have, there is the clam girl. for those who don’t know, clam girl is a NPC that you encounter if your game’s fun value is between 80 and 89 and you’re not playing a no mercy route. she talks of her neighbor’s daughter, suzy, and tells frisk that they should become friends with her. but she notes the fact that frisk would have no idea where suzy is yet fate will find a way for them to meet.

in the true pacifist epilogue of undertale with a fun value of 81, clam girl explains that the time frisk (or we, the players) will meet suzy is “fast approaching.” this specific term is yellow in text and her sprite becomes grayscale. then she abruptly vanishes, the noise as she does so being the same noise used for the mystery man and gaster follower 2 sprites when interacting with them. interestingly, her grayscale sprite is “spr_clam_goner”, not much different than goner kid. this dialogue was also added right before the release of deltarune.

so... who is suzy? while it is possible that suzy could just be susie with a different name for undertale’s sake, it’s also possible that suzy could be susie’s sister, likely younger. catty, returning from undertale, has a little sister in deltarune named catti. there isn’t much significance that i could add that would make it likely suzy is susie’s little sister other than this, but i felt it was worth mentioning so do with it what you will.

so... what else?

after interacting with clam girl, if you do the work necessary to access sans’ basement (or “lab”), you’ll be able to find a description of a photo inside one of the drawers that points out there are “three smiling people” with the text “don’t forget” written on it. this has been pointed out several times before due to the fact “don’t forget” is the deltarune song that plays at the end of ch1 (and ch2 although remixed?). if i recall correctly there is no other way of finding this flavor text except for interacting with clam girl. interesting.

lots of people believe that the covered machine in sans’ lab is a time machine. with sans’ many connections to gaster, it’s also possible that this could be a machine gaster made and had broken. it is said to be unfixable.

gaster is confirmed to have created the core. but i don’t believe this is what he fell into. it’s never specified what he fell into, just that it was his creation. so i believe that gaster fell into the time machine. and by taking entry number 17 into account, we are met with the possibility that the time machine might involve a black hole. fortunately for you guys black holes is a special interest of mine, so i can explain this easily.

basically, the anatomy of a black hole, or the structure, consists of the following:

event horizon

singularity

photon sphere

ergosphere

the event horizon of a black hole is the shadowy dark sphere that we see in images. it is a boundary in spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, not even light, can escape. once having crossed the event horizon, the nature of spacetime begins to deform, causing space’s usual three dimensions (length, width, height) to form only one dimension (movement forward) and time’s usual one dimension (into the future) to form three dimensions (past, present, and future). spacetime is what makes up our reality. remember this. and, as predicted by einstein’s theory of general relativity, mass bends spacetime (imagine our universe as a flat plane, and the mass of our earth causes a dip in the space underneath it), so a black hole’s mass warps spacetime so strongly that any direction you try to go in once having crossed the event horizon will lead you to the singularity. (at least... for a non-rotating, non-charged black hole.)

the singularity is a gravitational singularity, a region that may lie at the center of a black hole wherein the curvature/deformation of spacetime becomes infinite. because all black holes spin (due to their last moments as stars involving very fast rotational speeds), the singularity in a rotating black hole’s mathematics smears out to form a ring singularity (ringularity) that lies in the plane of rotation. in this case (as well as the case of a non-rotating black hole), the region has zero volume. and because of all of the black hole’s mass being held in this region, the singularity can be thought of as having infinite density. within a rotating black hole it is possible to avoid the singularity, and extending this solution as far as possible reveals the hypothetical possibility of exiting the black hole into a different spacetime (region of reality) with the black hole acting as a wormhole.

the photon sphere is a spherical boundary of zero thickness in which photons (elementary, electromagnetic radiation particles, associated with light) that move on tangents (the tangent line to a plane curve at a given point is the straight line that "just touches" the curve at that point) to that sphere would be trapped in a circular orbit about the black hole. while light can still escape from the photon sphere, any light that crosses the photon sphere on an inbound trajectory will be captured by the black hole.

lastly, the ergosphere is a region of spacetime found in rotating black holes in which it is impossible to stand still. basically, it’s like a whirlpool, and any object near the black hole will tend to start moving in the direction of rotation.

okay, so... what does this have to do with entry number 17?

WELL, here’s the dialogue from entry number 17. i’ll bold the key parts that i feel tie the possibility of this being a time machine to the time machine involving a black hole:

ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN DARK DARKER YET DARKER THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING THE SHADOWS CUTTING DEEPER PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT SEEMS VERY VERY INTERESTING ... WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK

as you can probably tell by now, it’s possible that this description of growing darkness, no photons, is similar to that of what a black hole is like.

but why would gaster create a black hole as part of a time machine? well, my idea is that he didn’t mean to do so. he likely concentrated enough energy or mass that caused a black hole to accidentally form. this black hole would have been small in diameter, thus having an incredibly short lifespan, its evaporation being violent. this would have broken the machine entirely. however, for the sake of undertale being a video game, it’s understandable why sans (and possibly papyrus or alphys) would be okay and why the machine is still relatively in tact.

it’s unclear to me why gaster would want to make a time machine. because time travel in the sci-fi sense (involving the grandfather paradox) is likely impossible without breaking the fabric of our reality, this could also be explained for why it went so horribly wrong for gaster. and - fun fact - once you cross the event horizon, you are lost to the universe forever. every particle you are made of, every little bit of energy you hold within your existence, is lost to the outside universe. forever. this is called the black hole information paradox. however, realistically, those who are outside of the black hole will still remember you, but in gaster’s sense... i don’t think this is what happened.

it’s possible that gaster managed to avoid the singularity, if the black hole he crossed was rotational. however, because he couldn’t leave the black hole, he could have traveled to different points in spacetime. this is why he was shattered across time and space as his followers describe, because undertale confirms that within its world, this possible existence of a black hole allows for wormholes to exist.

but... but wait. no, no, no. we can’t think of undertale as space-time. why? because sans himself confirms that the continuum of undertale’s reality is a time-space continuum. he puts time before space, which could be intentional and thus swapping their roles. within undertale this means that time is 3-dimensional, explaining the existence of save points and the ability to reset and load. space, on the other hand, is 1-dimensional, meaning you can only ever go one way which is to the end of the game. even if you load previous save files, you’ll still end up finished.

so if gaster was shattered across time and space, it’s possible that he was also shattered beyond. it’s believed that he had some sense of awareness, that he found out he was in a game with multiple different timelines, thus starting his “experiment.” he created the blueprints for the determination extraction machine, and because it’s also widely believed that he and chara were in cahoots with each other, maybe gaster wanted to extract some of chara’s determination and make something for himself. and maybe he succeeded in some way, not by extracting chara’s but by making his own somehow. it’s unknown right now to me. (though if he acquired determination somehow, that would make sense if the mysteryman sprite was him, considering the weird markings or drippy things on his face as well as the general blob-like look.)

so this implies that deltarune’s reality is a time-space continuum as well?

yes. gaster was smart, brilliant even, but it’s likely he didn’t know much beyond the nature of his own reality. when creating deltarune he made the reality of its universe something similar to undertale’s, with 3-dimensional time and 1-dimensional space. if gaster had the determination or something more, enough to persist even as a remnant of a shattered being outside his own reality, then this makes sense as to how he’d be able to create deltarune. if he’s forgotten to everyone within the world of undertale, and (in some abstract way for the sake of kris, jevil, spamton and possibly others) known to nobody in deltarune, yet he created deltarune, he isn’t dead. he’s something else. he’s a god.

and this is why chara is in cahoots with him, even now.

see, chara has determination. they didn’t fall into the underground intentionally; they tripped (1, 2). given these facts and theories it’s likely that chara had determination, or hope, the ability to persevere and keep going no matter what. chara had a red soul like frisk’s, which is what made their essence attach to frisk’s body. that’s why they are tethered to us via name and stats and narration. and as we all know, the red soul symbolizes determination. power.

but while chara is very much their own person, they are still what their name was meant to imply: a character. chara reflects the will of the player; they are not the player theirself, they are their own person, but due to their attachment to frisk (and by extension, us) they act as a mirror for what we do in undertale. and sadly for them, gaster is much more powerful due to his circumstances. gaster is more like us than chara is.

and given deltarune’s theme of nobody’s choices mattering, nobody having any real control over what they do or say, if we take into consideration the fact that chara speaks in the no mercy route about destroying "this" world and "moving onto the next" and asking "when were [we] the one in control", then it’s clear that they have something to do with the theme of deltarune. chara has only ever wanted control, whether that be a good or bad thing is currently out if the question. they wanted control over their own life when they were alive in undertale, and now they want control over other people. anything they feel is a good thing for them to have control over, they will reach for it.

the gonermaker sequence in chapter 1 is abruptly cut off by someone who speaks VERY similarly to chara, in contrast to the person from before who we all agree is gaster (in both japanese and english, it is very chara-esque way of speaking). now, why is this called the gonermaker? my guess is because chara has been discarding all these vessels, making gaster’s experiment much more difficult to start off and get going.

all the gaster followers from undertale, including goner clam girl and goner kid, show up in deltarune. they are fully colored sprites. the only goner character who doesn’t show up in deltarune is the one WE create in chapter 1′s beginning sequence. and i think that’s because they are set up to reappear, at some point in one of deltarune’s future chapters.

so, chara has been discarding all of the vessels, all the followers, all the now-goners because they know that these people will never have control over their lives. as long as they are shallow vessels meant to worship and serve our (the players’) and gaster’s desires (to play a game and experiment, thereby affecting an entire world/universe), they have no autonomy over themselves. and this resonates with chara for a multitude of reasons we can tie back to undertale. they state that "no one can choose who they are in this world," because it’s true. no one can choose who they are. not in a world dominated by gods like us and gaster. and that’s why chara discards these vessels and characters who were probably once their own real persons, as a means of sparing them from what they lacked for theirself: control. and no matter what, even if chara didn’t interrupt, we would have still ended up as kris because again No One Can Choose Who They Are In This World. chara was making gaster’s sick joke plain and simple for us, that it applies to us in some way too.

so then... what’s the deal with spamton and jevil? 

well, i think they are people who encountered gaster (this is widely believed anyway) and convinced themselves that they were significant for this knowledge that they are in a game, knowledge gaster told them of, driving them both insane and robbing them of who they were meant to be. and because nobody can choose who they are in deltarune, when they try to break free nothing changes or has a happy outcome, because it’s sadly just not possible to change your fate in deltarune.

this presumably-fact becomes clearer with spamton, though. and that’s why kris becomes so afraid, both at the end of spamton neo’s pacifist battle and his snowgrave battle. because kris can’t choose who they are, either. kris is like spamton, a puppet. a heart on a chain. they don’t have full control over who they are and trying to break free only hurts them more, as we see whenever they tear their soul out of their body and disable our input. but, maybe it’ll be different for kris, because they ARE the protagonist. but right now it feels like they’ve given up on the idea of having control over theirself. the only rebelling they do is work to open a dark fountain, thereby continuing the story of deltarune and, really, only helping us more in terms of playing the game.

and i mean, it’s also obvious that gaster holds influence over kris, too, considering the weird hidden encounters where you interact with something and see a man smiling or waving at you or giving you an egg. and this egg doesn’t change into a ball of trash like every other dark world item once you return to the light world. it stays the same. i can’t really remember the significance of eggs when it comes to gaster other than his whole existence being left as an Easter Egg but i do know that on the date with papyrus in undertale, there’s an egg on the side with the dating hub so, whether that’s there for funny points or lore is unknown, but interesting too.

i also want to say that i don’t think gaster and chara are being pitted against each other in terms of "these are 2 different types of gamers." while that would make sense simplistically, i feel like toby would be much more in depth and nuanced with it, as he usually is with his method of storytelling. because even though chara is kind of god-like, considering their death in undertale and their soul being the same as ours, leading to them being attached to us like some kind of angel (and angels have lots of significance in both undertale and deltarune), they’re still only a character and not at all on the level that gaster is.

i personally think gaster and chara are, on a more hidden level because toby isn’t being very direct at all with these two, meant to represent a different side of the "player vs character" perspective. and that’s something that undertale and deltarune have both tried to convey to us in the no mercy and snowgrave routes, but unfortunately in undertale’s case it was widely misinterpreted in both ways. i think it’s a bit more sensible to go about it this way, because gaster is not us, as in we don’t control him like we can other characters, and the symbolism of what he’s meant to represent is there.

ok, one last question: how did chara access wherever gaster’s in?

that part is still very foggy. i can’t come up with a definite reasoning, but for now i’ll take a wild guess and say that maybe chara grew tired of being a ghost with no real autonomy. maybe they decided they wanted to break free for theirself, and by doing this their essence became detached from frisk’s body (and by extension our control), thus causing them to be shattered similarly to gaster or winding up in the void gaster has. however that happened.

there’s a lot of uncanny resemblance between chara and kris, though, especially if this is the case. chara breaks free and winds up in the void with gaster, and kris realizes that breaking free for theirself may not be all that they think it’s meant to be. given spamton neo and all. aside from the fact that chara and kris look similar, have the same family (though in different universes of course), and strangely both have a sweet tooth, this is especially odd to me.

i can’t quite put it into words, but it feels like, to me at least, chara is very much present in the world of deltarune. and they share similarities with kris that are hard to ignore.

so that’s it, then.

for the most part... yes. a lot of the theories i’ve linked here and there explain things i agree with, so you can read them as you see fit. i especially recommend nochocolate’s posts on chara if you’re interested, such as the ambiguity of freedom in undertale (and, though this was never mentioned in their post, by extension now deltarune).

but. there is one character that seems to be involved in some (or a lot) of this. and that’s papyrus. the only problem is, i can’t figure out what’s going on.

at first glance papyrus is just a very charming guy. but you know, he’s actually a lot more mysterious than sans. he shares similarities to chara and flowey/asriel, and holds weird possible connections to gaster. he’s also the only major character from undertale (aside from asriel) who hasn’t made a physical appearance in deltarune. while checking sans and papyrus’ house will have you met with narration describing “a distant trousle of bones”, it’s worth noting that in chapter 2 it’s described as getting farther and farther away. so... why? is this world’s papyrus just shy, or is there a deeper reason?

again, i can’t tell what’s going on with papyrus, if there even is anything at all. but there’s a lot of weird and mysterious little oddities involving him that i don’t think are unintentional or accidental.

anyways... there. hoo boy. that’s my theory. or theories. i don’t really know. like i said, i’m not a theorist, i don’t know everything and i don’t expect any of this to be true. it’s just what makes sense to me. and it’s important that if you believe this, you also recognize that toby is the creator and he does what he thinks is best when it comes to the story of deltarune and the possible connections it has to undertale (even though toby’s said that the two have no connections, it’s not uncommon for him to be untruthful about things).

if you read all of this... thanks! let me know your thoughts!

[silyabeeodess]

Thoughts on Frisk, Chara, and the Player

Besides what I’ve covered briefly in the description of a comic a few years back, this is long overdue; however, since I might make something focusing on Chara in the future, I decided to go ahead and put down my two cents on these two characters.  Since this is effectively a long essay, I’ll have everything below the cut:

One of the most longstanding debates among Undertale fans is the morality of these characters and their relation to the Player.  Some see Frisk and Chara as effectively polar embodiments of good and evil following the Pacifist and Genocide routes while others see the Player alone as the individual in control of all choices with the two characters bowing to that control.  The truth might be somewhere in the middle.

Let’s cover the most basic thing first.  The Player is you.  Yes, it’s your decisions that take the story in different directions, but you are not a character. You are not a part of the world of Undertale.  You’re an intruder, an outsider, an anomaly--something that the people in Undertale only seem to have a vague understanding of.  Characters like Flowey will break the 4th wall by calling you out for your actions, but it’s often from the idea that you’re still Chara--even if Chara’s own story played out long before you came in.  Chara will ask for your SOUL, but you personally don’t actually sacrifice anything: Even as far as the game’s story goes with the “Soulless Pacifist” route, the most you lose is the time is takes to reinstall the game and play it as you normally would. You can cheat them out of “your SOUL” easily.  They think you’re Frisk.

Most glaringly, however, is that both Frisk and Chara will fight against some of your decisions.  For Chara, you have them not giving you much of a choice with how you end the Genocide route and declaring that you were never in control, amongst other actions like killing Asgore and Flowey. Most people might not notice Frisk’s refusal beyond the fact that we don’t pick their name like we can Chara’s; however, the point where this becomes most clear is during our interactions with Undyne on a Pacifist Run.  When we try to become Undyne’s friend and she insists on fighting anyway after her house catches fire, we have the choice to fight back.  Doing so though results in a weak attack, which Undyne declares as being the result of a lack of will to hurt her.  That isn’t the Player’s decision, and it effectively forces us to spare her whether we want to or not.  

This relationship parallels what we also see in Deltarune, with the Player there also exhibiting control over Kris, but Kris fighting back.  Kris isn’t an empty vessel or puppet for the Player to manipulate, and the same can be said for Frisk and Chara in Undertale. It’s a form of temporary possession, where we--an otherworldly being--take over a host for as long a period as the game’s designers allow. It means that we can’t pin our actions on either Frisk or Chara.  Let’s go back to that second paragraph though.  The other characters don’t really know this, making Frisk/Chara/Kris suffer as a result.      

From a gameplay perspective, this is an awesome idea to tackle. From a story perspective, meanwhile, things get a little complicated.

Here’s the thing about handling it simply as a story: The Player often has to be ripped out of the equation.  Again, you aren’t a character, and the only way the Player can really be present in the world of Undertale is as an OC or persona based on the independent choices of each creator.  Keeping them out means leaving the choices we would normally make 100% up to Frisk/Chara.  Ergo, stop attacking artists and writers for their portrayals of those two when creators have to give them qualities that are entirely up to each individuals ideas and experiences to try and fill in a bunch of blanks.  Beyond Chara’s backstory giving us some information on who they were, which is mostly told to us through other characters, there is no perfectly in-character portrayal of either of them.  

Which I guess brings us to the part where I try explaining my idea of them.  So let’s start with Chara, since again, they have the most background info.

What are some canon points we can cover with Chara?

Asriel describes them as “not the greatest person,” but still cared for them deeply as his best friend. From the recordings in the True Lab, we see they had a good friendship, even if Chara often took a more leading role.

Also according to Asriel, Chara “hated humanity” and had an unhappy reason for climbing the mountain.

It was Chara’s plan to commit suicide, have Asriel take their SOUL, and try to kill humans to break the barrier.

Chara laughed after poisoning Asgore with buttercups. It’s presumed by Asriel to have been an accident, but we don’t know Chara’s knowledge on the situation.

An extended monologue from Asgore has him describe Frisk and Chara as having “the same look of hope in their eyes.”

Asgore considered Chara “the future of humans and monsters.”

They refer to themselves as “the demon who comes when people call its name.”

As of the Genocide route, their goal is the complete destruction of Undertale’s world to join the Player and move on to another. They pin the Player’s actions on their newfound “purpose” to attain power.

Narration in the game is different depending on the route, speaking commonly from a 2nd-person POV on Pacifist and Neutral runs, but 1st-person on a Genocide run. This alludes that Chara is always with us during gameplay.

Chara’s dialogue mimics Toriel’s, hinting to a close relationship following the concepts of mimicry being a form of flattery and a child’s desire to be like a positive adult figure in their lives.

So here’s what I think.  Chara’s hatred toward humanity is supported not only by Asriel’s confession, but also in their actions.  If Chara took control as Asriel described after crossing the Barrier to kill humans and take their SOULS, that willingness to commit murder along with their own suicide indicates not only that general disdain, but also a hefty amount of self-loathing simply for being human.  Whatever happened to them prior to entering the Underground, that hatred was likely only nursed further by knowledge and ideas fed to them from monsterkind: Humans hurt monsters too and monsters are supposedly “made of compassion” while “humans don’t need any.” (They may have even been bullied or faced prejudice for being human, even if it wasn’t from the Dreemurrs, just like how Frisk was constantly attacked on-site.)  This likely led to a monster-centric worldview where all of humanity--and even themselves, to a point--was the enemy.  

I imagine the “Mr. Dad Guy” sweater we find was made by Chara rather than Asriel because of the inclusion of “guy” at the end, since this seems like something more of an adopted child would do than a biological one, maybe not entirely comfortable with the idea yet of calling Toriel and Asgore “Mom” and “Dad.”  I truly do think Chara loved their newfound family and never meant to hurt Asgore: The laugh, while it can’t be confirmed, seemed to be a mark of mental instability rather than something of true malice. With the pressure of being called “the future of humans and monsters” as well, they probably felt like they had to be responsible for humanity’s actions as a whole even if they personally did nothing wrong.  From that perspective, their life--and any other human’s--mattered less than a monster’s, because they had to atone for the crimes of others.  Humanity itself had to atone.  This is why they would be so willing to sacrifice themselves and kill for the sake of breaking the Barrier.

So what happens when the monsters Chara placed on a pedestal start breaking their script?  Asriel stopping Chara from committing murder is one thing: That seemed to be one part of the plan that Chara didn’t tell him about, probably because they knew he wouldn’t agree to it. Beyond that though?  What happens when monsters stop showing that legendary compassion?  Asriel started playing with lives and killed for fun as Flowey.  Asgore declared war against humanity and started killing children.  Toriel left her position as queen and couldn’t protect anyone. Not only was their happy family broken, but monsters started acting like the humans they claimed to be better than through their own “weaknesses” and desire to kill.  They were supposed to be above humanity’s choices, above even Chara’s choices. Vengeance isn’t an excuse anymore: It’s all the same, and it feels like the ultimate betrayal.  

They’re all the same.  Monsters, humans, it doesn’t matter.  It’s an ugly world where only the strong and terrible reign, and it deserves to be destroyed.  There’s nothing left.  There’s no good left.  There’s no hope left... 

Unless, maybe, someone new enters the game. Can they rekindle that hope or will they only prove those dark thoughts right?

In comes Frisk, who we really only know as a blank slate.  We don’t know their history or their desires except to leave the Underground one way or another.   We can’t really say much, so this is where it really is entirely up in the air how we portray them.

A personal headcanon of mine is that they were a bit of a little thief, “frisking” things off of others--which is why we can get G even without killing in the game.  A very morally grey character, fitting the multiple routes Undertale’s story can go and Sans description of them “maybe not being a saint” even if they play as a Pacifist.  Maybe they don’t really know what the right choice always is, but they desire to do their best when possible. 

I can’t say much here because, as I’ve said several times now, it’s up to everyone.  Me?  I like a Pacifist Frisk, even if they struggling and suffer before reaching their happy ending.  Some might have them go through a Genocide route on their own or by Chara’s possession. Some have them with guilt-riddled consciences and others treat them as the purest of souls. Some pick different endings.   

So enjoy your interpretations, your characterizations, and your AUs.  You don’t have to agree with my ideas or anyone else’s: Just don’t bash others for theirs.  Undertale’s gameplay opens things to everyone’s personal experience and should be enjoyed as such. 

[electricpurrs]

OKAY YEAH ive been pointed out ralseis manual and i think its definitely really curious...... the manual was technically scrapped / not used in the final game so who knows how canon it is, but if it is makes me wonder what it suggests...

like undertale has the date of 201X, it seems logical for deltarune to have 202X though i DO confess it still weirds me out the idea of deltarune taking place in the 2020s when the first chapter came out in 2018......

though i notice remarkably that in undertale the date is a red herring. 201X is the year chara fell underground, not the year undertale takes place, which is like probably hundreds of years after chara died. it all plays out in the whole role of the player projecting themselves into frisk, giving them their own name, and my guess 201X is supposed to trick you into thinking its 2015, and projecting your own present date in the game (as a player would in the time the game came out) only for it in the end be revealed that both the child you named after yourself isnt frisk, and the date you thought it was was actually far in the past

SO!!!!!!!!!! i wonder if theres a similar trick being played with deltarune. that a player in 2021 at rhe time chapter 2 came out is supposed to see 202X and project 2021 into the game only for it to not be true........

as WELL as how it JUST makes me question all of the aesthetic choices of making the conscious decision to make noelles blog/spamton sweepstakes website strongly resemble early internet, spamton himself being a spam email from 1997, and the technology in the light world not being shown as being super advanced to 2020s standards such as the style of the computers in the computer lab. it all just seems TOO coincidental to mean absolutely nothing at all, and makes me wonder what the purpose of all those details is

also yes, this post was about homestuck

many people have pointed out deltarune likely doesnt take place in modern time due to how none of the light worlds technology and culture indicates such, and its more likely it takes place in the 2000s and all the main characters are kids born the 90s who are growing up with early internet, considering the style of noelles blog and the way she types. so what if deltarune takes place in 2009