#I just think Heimerdinger and Ekko are neat

[winterway]

Okay I like NEVER post commentary, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about this (yet), so here we go:

Heimerdinger is an amazing character, and I adore him, but he doesn’t really become one until he meets Ekko.

Like Ekko changed him so fundamentally, especially with how he relates to the story.

He’s basically a scientist who wants to help, but has been too blinded by his age. But the Firelights? Exact opposite. They’re young, basically children (if not children), who are thrust into a fast paced world. Like they’re hover boards for example? Speedy.

And their whole focus is doing stuff NOW, to change the future, and I’m just like whjejeje??

The perfect opposite of Heimerdinger, and yet somehow they still help change him for the better!! I personally believe it’s just because Heimerdinger is fundamentally good, but that’s just me.

Like, they’re able to show him youth I think. To make him aware about how fast things are changing, and he finds a way to help that growth. Sort of changing his perspective from time decaying things, to making it grow (the tree being symbolism here).

Idk if this makes sense, but that and his and Ekko’s time travel stuff?

Anyway, I suck at getting my thoughts out coherently, so I hope this makes sense lol.

[dancingafterdark]

oh my gosh! thank you so much for your lovely (and very thorough!) reply! i had already perused a few of your linked metas, so i knew i was talking to one of the very few season 2 stans i’ve seen online and didn’t want to risk coming off as if i was barging into your house and being a bitch about it — like i said, i actually don’t HATE season 2, i just have an issue with certain plot points/characters that end up breaking my immersion a lot more than season 1 — which, contrary to all the hype surrounding it, was NOT a perfect masterpiece unworthy of critique either (nothing is), so it’s interesting talking with someone who actually prefers season 2 over 1. I’m actually curious about your tea regarding said specific character that “tainted your enjoyment”, because i think i have had a similar experience regarding one character in particular throughout the entire show, including s1 and i actually think s2 wrote their character better conceptually if not with the. best execution, but i shan’t say their name aloud lest i get eviscerated :skull: 

okay, okay: looooong, rambling, semi-coherent post/response incoming, so I’ll just put this here and here we gooo~

Re: the fandom (and show’s) downplaying of Jayce’s trauma, analysing Jayce’s most infamous moment, and Jayce’s s2 writing in general:

I heavily agree that episodes s02e07-9 did a MAJOR service in helping “fix” Jayce’s reputation and gain him more grace/sympathy compared to how he was received in season 1 — note that i wasn’t HERE when season 1 aired, i hopped on only about a week after the finale aired and binged both seasons in about three days, but i have heard the stories and witnessed the Jayce Wars — and while i jokingly say i hate him and Viktor and Mel could do better by getting with ME instead lmao, I don’t. Maybe this is a controversial take, but I think he had one of the more consistently written arc of any other character in this show across both seasons, even as you pointed out, his writing in Act III is. questionable, and it’s NOT because i think he’s Christian Linke’s self insert either: his mini “corruption arc” in s1 was very tightly written even if it left me frustrated at him, which any good show is supposed to do, especially in the hyped Morally Grey Show™ with (allegedly) morally grey characters. I say people downplay his ravine trauma because i HAVE seen firsthand people disregard things such as his disability, saying that a broken leg isn’t “a big deal” — which I WILL blame on the show for being kinda bleg regarding its treatment of other freshly physically disabled characters throughout the season such as Salo or Jinx — and also viewers not having a good grasp on HOW long Jayce was stuck down in that pit; a sadly reoccurring pattern for the show, as I don’t think some people understand how much time actually passed in Acts II-III of season one either, and that has led to an exaggeration of just how much time Jayce had spent on the council alongside the scale of his political influence, and i think season 2’s execution of its VAGUELY A FEW MONTHS LATER timeskip between acts wasn’t handled as gracefully compared to the seven year skip in season 1. This is also why i argue we could’ve and should’ve had more episodes, to help better convey the passage of time beyond [shudders] music video montages, but i’m getting off topic.

It’s strange to see how...flippant the fandom is regarding the treatment of Jayce’s psyche, particularly due to his upbringing, and that has led to him being treated less sympathetically compared to other, more “pitiable” characters like Viktor or Jinx; i’m especially perplexed how the fandom took him accidentally killing a child during the Shimmer factory raid and ran with it to paint him as this psychopathic kid killer when, not only was he visibly distressed even long after he did it, it was an essential moment of character growth alongside a turning point in his arc — alongside the infamous bridge scene:

Yes, the blockade was objectively an awful thing to do and a gross usage of his newly-gained political power, as was his comments regarding how Viktor violating it affects his image and that people from the undercity are “dangerous”, and this is something show and character himself in the scene acknowledges was a step too far, but i think people zero in on him showing his ass towards Viktor (an offense punishable by death on its own) and not on the contextual reasonings as to WHY he put up the blockade in the first place; again, i think this is people forgetting how long season 1 realistically is, because chronologically, just a couple of nights before, a known terrorist not only had broken into their lab and made off in possession of what is essentially a magical atomic bomb powder keg while almost murdering his best friend/little sister in the process and said terrorist will go to commit a massacre on that very bridge while almost murdering his best friend again only a few hours following his and Viktor’s argument — a massacre he gets a VERY up close and personal view of the aftermath of the next morning, mind you (i know we’re all ACAB here and love Jinx, but, again, I think the fandom and the show later on kinda forgot that she was objectively a villain in season 1 — a complex and VERY sympathetic one, mind you, but a villain nonetheless), and you add on to his already established overprotectiveness and his distress over Viktor — who he had recently learned was on death’s door and is already critically frail in body and health — already having disappeared without a trace (“he does that sometimes”, he says while brooding in the forge, with a very deliberate closeup of his frustrated and conflicted expression) and his added conflicted feelings and the pressure put on him following his dethroning Heimerdinger and becoming the new, as Mel points out to him, “the defacto head of the Council” when he was, even just a few nights ago, simply a celebrity figure who doesn’t fully understand nor is particularly interested in playing politics, then I think writing all of THAT down into a timeline puts his more questionable actions during even that scene into perspective just as much as his unchecked Piltie privilege, even if it does make me want to tear my hair out and punch him in the teeth during the scenes where he shows his ass — which again, as frustrating as he may be, is a GOOD thing, because having a negative reaction to a character doing/saying something awful, even in the heat of the moment, as intended shows the strength of the character writing throughout the series, and it once again points to one of Jayce’s most evident fatal flaws:

The man wears his bleeding heart on his sleeve and he WILL jump into doing reckless/harmful things for the sake of his loved ones, even if it hurts them in the process — it’s basically the thesis of the entire damn show, as Singed directly points out (“Why do we commit acts others deem unspeakable? For love” and…god, not on topic with this conversation, but I adore the Jayce/Silco/Singed parallels woven throughout this series so much, I wanna chew on it)

This is a nuance, and feel free to disagree with me here, that I feel gets kinda skewered in season 2, particularly in Act III — and not just with Jayce, but he’s the subject of this discussion, so I’ll be focusing on him here: we start off incredibly strong with the nonconsensual necromancy highlighting just how far Jayce will go to in the name of “saving Viktor” and while I lament us not spending more time with either character to explore their processing of his actions, I think it’s, as you pointed out, Jayce’s writing and specifically his incredibly cryptic lines throughout Act III that really gives me pause. I feel like the writers were trying to have their cake and eat it too by having Jayce play at being Viktor’s morally opposed enemy for a bit while also holding the plot twist regarding Jayce’s actual intentions a bit too close to their chest, because some of his lines during the council room fight just seem. I don’t know, kinda detrimental to his end goal? That is why i don’t personally like his attitude or dialogue during the fight scene: sure, seeing him act all aggressive is (and i will be shameless here lmao) hot as fuck, we have external factors to justify his behaviour such as him being keyed-up while being caught mid-arguement with Mel + the Mage spamming the PTSD flashback button on repeat, and his lines make sense for that scene in the moment — but in hindsight, with the context of his promise to the Mage being not just to atone for their actions and prevent the robot apocalypse, but to also bring Viktor back to his humanuty, constantly being on the offensive when he’s still not too far gone yet is only going to push him on the defense and, oh, look at that: he’s now fully abandoned his humanity for godhood all because you blamed him for abusing the connection you tethered to him via the Hexcore without his consent, told him he was basically dead to you, and shot him AGAIN — and now you wanna appeal to his inner humanity with puppy dog eyes, an ethics debate, and a “i know there’s a part of you still in there”?? jesus christ, Jayce; viktor, please, stand UP—

(Then again, I think the writers also forgot about Viktor’s ✨magic touch✨ as well, or simply didn’t properly establish how that ability was limited as he further “evolved”; another point to THIS SHOW NEEDED MORE GODDAMN EPISODES: I would’ve KILLED for the time at the commune to be spread out over more than a single episode, if only to more properly establish Viktor’s limits — perhaps as a two-parter? Oh, to dream. So I make a conscious effort to tune out all but only the most shiptastic dialogue and behaviours during that scene and choose to focus on Viktor’s glorious thigh action instead, lmao—)

And yes, HARD agree that the show kinda just…skips over Jayce’s attempt early on, especially since it’s heavily implied that he successfully went through with it in the happytimes AU; yet again, another reason why I’m baffled why the fandom fixated over his accidental killing of a child to paint him as a murderous kid-killing madman as it’s made clear that his negligence in handling his crystals leading directly to the death of a child — even in a freak accident he couldn’t have prevented unless he knew that said child was planning on breaking into his apartment with the intent of robbing him blind — would have contributed to his spiraling mental health and decision to end it all just as much as the political fallout and scandal of a Zaunite child dying on topside grounds and his subsequent exile; now, whether or not this universe’s version of Viktor tried to or could even make it in time to prevent him from jumping is another story, but, as Mage Viktor said, in all timelines, in all possibilities — this is just one path that didn’t end happily for our men of progress. Now, I DO have. hm, issues with the finale having three of our four main characters who have expressed suicidal intentions throughout the show choosing to heroically sacrifice themselves for “the sake of others/the world” as the culmination of their character arcs, but excluding that fact that Jinx’s survival and basically guaranteed return is the worst kept secret in the writing room, I can’t feasibly see Jayvik’s arc ending any other way either: even if we did go down the path of “friends to lovers to enemies” that their League counterparts did or how the released initial storyboards were implying, I cannot see an ending where one killed and then was forced to go on living without the other as a happy ending, or even a satisfying one — their stories are simply too connected to have ever ended any other way if they had to die.

Speaking of…

Re: mage viktor my beloved, fate, tropes + storytelling, and a big ball of timey-wimey…stuff

again, this is another case where i’m probably seeing the more critical posts on this matter or am simply spending too much time on arcanetwt (do NOT recommend: your brain will turn to mush and leak out your ears just ten minutes of scrolling “hot takes“, save yourselves—); actually, funnily enough, there actually has been ongoing debate over there regarding the Mage twist, his actions, and the exact same trolley problem you had brought up for the past couple of days. Now, I LOVE the twist personally and am fascinated by Mage Viktor, for reasons I’ll further detail below, but for the sake of argument, let’s entertain the idea that the Mage deliberately doomed Jayce and had been playing an active role by pulling the strings so that Jayce ends up playing the exact role he planned for him (he didn’t, but let’s pretend): I still don’t like this take because it essentially robs Jayce of all of his agency. Furthermore, arguing over whether or not who “doomed” who in this equation misses the point of their story entirely, and that point is: Jayce and Viktor’s paths were always destined to end this way.

Jayce was already doomed with or without Viktor’s influence, and vice-versa: whether he dies alone with his also dying mother in a freak blizzard without ever having been touched by magic, or by taking his own life once his research and scientific pursuits backfire onto him, and likewise, Viktor was doomed to die and go down a dark path in hopes of prolonging his lifespan even if Jayce never merged him with the Hexcore; and while you can argue that, what with their being infinite possibilities, there are hypothetical timelines where Jayce and Ximena never got trapped in that blizzard and the former went on to live a happy, successful life as a blacksmith or merchant following in the footsteps of his father, or Viktor never left Zaun, continued to work with Singed to perfect Shimmer, and was able to heal himself that way — all very fun “what-if” AUs to explore — I feel that focusing on hypotheticals still misses the point of the Mage’s words: “in ALL timelines, in ALL possibilities”. And I have reasons to take his word for it because, while he may be an all-powerful time traveling god in this form, he is still Viktor and therefore he is still a scientist at heart, which I feel quite a few people in the fandom ignore: we have no reason to believe that he has not exhausted every possible option or factor across all of time and space only to come to the same conclusion — no matter how far their paths diverge, Jayce and Viktor will always inevitably meet at a fixed point of origin that will lead to the end of the world. That’s why I don’t personally fw the whole “the Mage is manipulating Jayce to clean up his mess” take or the sentiment that “well, if the Mage never gave Jayce the rune in the first place, this never would have happened” because, well, for one, I highly doubt this was an outcome Mage Viktor even wanted to come to in the first place — look at his expressions in that scene in the finale, the inflection of his voice — but also, once again, this take robs Jayce of his agency throughout the entirety of the show, and I. don’t like that. With or without his emotional support shiny rock, Jayce would’ve either gone onto be so enchanted by magic that he’d try to recreate it, or he’d be dead: the rune played very little of a part in that process because Jayce Talis, alleged himbo, is above all else: 1) INCREDIBLY intelligent and was able to successfully recreate the runes he’d seen the Mage produce down to a science despite only seeing them briefly when he was only three apples tall, alongside nearly having already cracked Hextech before he met Viktor that fateful day, and 2) INCREDIBLY stubborn and headstrong: once he has a goal, he sets his mind to it and with or without the rune, he will find a way to bring magic to the world, goddamnit, even in a roundabout manner. Both him and Viktor connect so well because they are stupidly determined in their aspirations and enable the shit out of one another when locked in a room together despite their drastically different paths in life, like two magnets destined to meet despite their contrasting charges, which is why the twist works so well in my opinion: hell, even our Viktor, in his dying moments in The Message Hidden Within the Pattern, comes to the exact same conclusion (“...two sides of the same coin, inextricably bound…”) even if the message he gets from it is: emotions and humanity sucks and is the root of all evil, good intentions be damned, i’m ascending to the divine bad news about the divine—

Onto the matter of WHY people seem to dislike the twist that i’ve seen firsthand, it usually comes down to a few crucial factors: “it should’ve been [insert other League character] here instead” or the OP has many gripes regarding the time travel part of it all, which…yeah, I get it, even if I disagree. I usually see people argue that Viktor was never planned to be the Mage and that the twist was a retcon based on the fact that some redditors (of course) claimed that the leaked model of the Mage in season 1 heavily resembled Ryze + connecting his established LoL background regrading his handling of runes, to which…okay, ignoring the fact that I am a filthy, disgusting CASUAL who has never touched a league of legends in my life and whose eyes glaze over when skimming the wiki pages, people are aware that creatives can just…put things into their projects deliberately to throw off the audience, right? Have we forgotten Alex Hirsch faking an entire leak controversy to protect the most important plot twist of his show because he and his team had already noticed that viewers were not dumb and some had even already figured out the reveal only eight episodes in (and this was in 2014, mind you)? The point is, these creative teams know that viewers are not stupid and made a point to leave just as many clues hinting towards Viktor being the magic from the beginning than they did it being Ryze or any other League character not directly involved in the story they’d otherwise have to scramble to introduce: from the use of his and Jayce’s leitmotifs throughout the essential scenes to the blatant foreshadowing of Viktor being represented by the magician card. Furthermore, there are more direct character motivations behind this writing decision that are also crucial as to why the “Viktor shouldn’t have been the mage” argument falls apart to me personally: why the hell would Jayce have listened to anyone other than Viktor? We’ve seen firsthand how defensive Jayce gets towards anyone that dares to even question Viktor’s safety, so why would Jayce listen to a random stranger — even one who had saved his life in the past and directly inspired him — when he had Heimerdinger, his mentor, exiled for simply threatening to have the one thing that could save Viktor destroyed? And furthermore, why would someone like Ryze, who knows firsthand of the danger of the runes’ power, entrust the fate of the world, let alone hand one of to a random child without another word or warning him of the dangers of pursuing magic? I also feel like some people interpret the creators’ comments that “the only one who could defeat Viktor is himself” as meaning that if Viktor wanted to prevent the robot apocalypse, he should have interacted with Viktor directly instead of relying on Jayce, rather than the fact that this much older and wiser version of Viktor has recognized that Jayce truly is the only one who could reason with Viktor and help him see his humanity because he realizes now how much Jayce well and truly loves him.

But even then, I feel all of this this is still ignoring the crucial elephant in the room, and that is:

Arcane is, first and foremost, an adaptation and as any good adaptation should do, it needs to be easily accessible to casual viewing audiences as it is to hardcore fans as to not alienate or confuse non-League players.

Granted, I also feel the advertising of Arcane as a wholesale prequel to LoL rather than as what it actually is — an AU — to play just as much as fault as it is mismanaged fan expectations: even in season 1, there are quite a few major writing decisions that contradict established League lore such as Vi no longer having amnesia a writing decision i’d have preferred given how dirty the actual writing of the show did her, the distinct lack of heavily pivotal characters such as Blitzcrank, Zeri, Ezreal, Camille Ferros, Stanwick, etc., Piltover being connected to Zaun through the bridge rather than being built directly on top of it, or Viktor’s transhumanism dabblings being more biomechanical/magic based rather than the traditional cyborg narrative of his League counterpart, etc. and all of this contributed to the slightly more high concept elements in-line with the game narrative introduced in season 2 such as the Black Rose plotline not being very highly received by casual viewers on the account of it being “too confusing” and people generally not liking having to do homework to understand basic plot points (speaking from experience as an MCU survivor lmao) — so why the hell would the writers take the time and risk with the already crammed finale to make the Mage anyone else other than an already established character in the narrative for a little bit of fanservice, especially with the story they wanted to tell?

I mean, hell, I’ve already seen a semi-popular(?) Arcane focused video essayist (whose name i won’t mention but you can find relatively easily) in their critique of season 2 bemoan how “complicated” Jayce and Viktor’s plot is in s2 compared to the more “relatible” conflict of the sisters because it focuses on concepts like fate and time-travel and, well…maybe I’m just a stupid English major, but I don’t personally think jayvik’s narrative is any more complicated once you divorce it from the more high concept magic and fate elements — but then again, this same person complained about the finale following basic, “predictable” tropes and conventions they thought Arcane (y’know, the steampunk sci-fi fantasy television show) was “too good” for, so what do I know? i’m not a YouTuber, lmao. Point of the matter: I do feel like people forget that Jayce and Viktor are also the protagonists of this story, so of course they would play a crucial role in the magic-centered element of the plot that they kickstarted in the first place while the sisters’ conflict is more intimate and family-oriented — you don’t have to like it or wish it went another way more en route with your theories, but that is just how this story was told. Ah, but I think i’m harping on this point enough as is.

Regarding time-travel plotline, I’m going to be blunt here: I don’t care for them, but I also care even less for nitpicking them — even the most tightly written scripts involving the matter can have plot holes or contradictions. Considering Ekko also deals with time travel as his power-set, I’m less bothered about it and the multiverse being explored or crucial to the plot of Arcane than other people. Sure, you can argue that Mage Viktor’s existence is a paradox or whatever, but choosing to get hung up over the schematics rather than the actual themes of the story is…eh, it’s not something I have the energy for, but other people are allowed to analyze as they wish.

Re: the goddamn music video montages

I don’t have much to add here: i’m just happy to meet somebody else who didn’t enjoy the fucking music video segments lmaoo; sure, stylistically, they’re incredible (especially the watercolour one, holy shit) and most of the season 2 soundtrack is absolute bangers so I can understand wanting to show it off — and if you allow me to put on my tinfoil cap, I suspect the increased use of them in season 2 versus season 1 to be a budget thing, considering there were allegedly already crucial cuts being made in the writing department alone, but that’s just a theory (a gAY THEORY-). I just. don’t like them: rushing through crucial scenes like Vander’s recovery process, the timeskip, Isha bonding with Jinx, or like, everything involving Vi, her time on the Enforcers and the fallout her Act I ending, all scenes that imo should’ve been properly spaced out into their own arcs, alongside them quite literally giving me a headache from overstimulation. The over reliance of them is also strange considering season 1, unless my memory is betraying me (it’s been a few months since my last rewatch, admittedly) there was only two flashy music video segments in the entire season and both were in episode 7: all the other scenes that showcased the soundtrack either had them simply as background tracks or the songs were diegetic [shudders in arcanified Imagine Dragons cameo]

re: MOAR EPISODES + the future of jayvik

i agree that even season 1, for as tightly written it was to support its three act structure compared to season 2 imo, also suffered from a critical lack of episodes — i really wish we had more screentime dedicated to Vi readjusting to life after spending seven years falsely imprisoned in high max solitary confinement or exploring her relationship with Caitlyn (sorry to be a hater, but i was not invested in their relationship because of how rushed it was in s1, which was why i was so excited going into s2 seeing where it would go…welp-), everything involving Mel and her relationships with Ambessa and Jayce (as well as them establishing the Black Rose stuff much earlier in the narrative), and, like. just anything involving Sky so that her fridging is a little more palatable [sighs and takes a drag of my cigar] oh, if only…

I also agree that season 2 definitely added a lot more context to moments of s1 as well; granted, most of these are in relation to jayvik because I am filthy shipping trash lmao, and there are some elements added that I’m personally not a fan of such as Vander and Silco’s additional backstory, but considering Arcane was the first major project for a lot of the writers on staff, I can only hope they take the criticism they’ve already received and apply it to other future projects set in this universe — including knowing how to pace out their elaborate stories a bit better. Regarding the possibility Jayce and Viktor returning in these proposed spin-offs, I actually think there’s a lot of narrative potential to explore with them once the adrenaline high of, y’know, saving the world wears off, especially since I’d think they’d have a lot of unresolved trauma they’d also have to unpack and work on — Jayce’s time stuck in the ravine, Viktor regaining his humanity or being permanently stuck in his Herald form and having to readjust after being stuck in the arcane under the influence of the Hexcore for so long, Jayce having gone back on his word and his guilt over hurting Viktor several times even if it was to save him, possible jealousy on Viktor’s part towards the Mage and trying to figure out his own magic if he still has it; all avenues that I adore reading about in post-canon AUs that i think could make for juicy spin-off material, just as long as the writers carefully read the Do Not Separate label before proceeding.

On a lighter note, I once read someone propose that if they were to return in a future spin-off, that they’d only appear on screen via random background cameos a la Rapunzel and Eugene chilling in Arendelle in crowd shots during the first Frozen movie, just living their best life and being in love, and I think that idea is fucking ADORABLE (even if the writers are too cowardly to actually do it). But as it is, i’m largely satisfied with the ending we have for jayvik for now <3 after all, what’s a sweeter ending than tenderly holding your partner in the infinite embrace of the arcane?

OKAY! I think that’s all i’ve got in me for now (who knows: i might remember something i forgot at three in the morning lmao) — i’ve had to retype all of This at least three times because tumblr decided it’s allergic to me interacting directly with this post at all 🥲 bless you for such a lovely, well thought-out response! I hope what I added to this dialogue doesn’t read weirdly; I originally sent my ask while en route to a doctor’s appointment to get a nerve block injection in my head and now I’m recovering from it with an icepack in one hand and my phone in another, so things may sound a bit jumbled rn. Lovely to meet and open this discussion with all of you; I love this show so much, and even my more negative criticism comes wholeheartedly from a place of love for both this world and these characters, but I’m also incredibly shy irl, so interacting directly with the fandom is a herculean task for me 😭 so thank you for having me — I really do appreciate your perspective! i may be more critical of season 2 than you are, but I really think having an open dialogue really does help the fandom as a whole, as well as introduce me to so many fascinating people in the process!

(p.s. i know my handle is a bit of a mouthful, so for brevity’s sake — you can call me MK <3)

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities in S2 imo was not making Jayce’s time in the ravine a bottle episode. As it stands in the show we got, I’m fine with it being where it is and think the “Jayce in dark souls” contrast with Ekko is hilarious, but i think even cramming it in like they did has led to some viewers downplaying his trauma and the vague timeline of events only being segmented a la montage didn’t really help — and that’s not even getting into Mage Viktor’s role in all of this. It’s obvious when some people haven’t rewatched the show in a while since it came out, since there appears to be this narrative being spread around now villainizing the Mage, saying that he had “doomed” Jayce either through giving him the mission in the first place, or is trying to paint Jayce as a victim who only stayed with Viktor out of “obligation” for his mission or even people saying that he had groomed Jayce (god, I hate how flippantly that word is used nowadays), and I think that’s because, even foregoing the twist at the end, we just didn’t spend enough time with the Mage to establish his motivations even for a bait and switch. Now, while I know not a lot of viewers like him, either because they think the twist is stupid or they’re just salty it wasn’t Ryze (as if shoving in more League lore would magically fix the writing or pacing problems this season lmao), I actually think Mage Viktor ended up being one of the more compelling characters for me to come out of s2 because of how little we know about him and how he got where he did, but obviously not everyone feels that way and while I’m not saying the writers should’ve showed their hands entirely — because, regardless of the logistics, that reveal still was one of the better executed imo and hits incredibly hard, especially on repeat viewings — I also just wanted to see more of this character and the eerie, desolate world that Jayce was thrusted into.

There’s also the meta reasoning that we, the audience, would simply have more time to sit on the information being processed before being thrown back into Plot Stuff™: I hate the internet for what it did to the word “filler” and acting like character focused episodes over strictly plot-driven episodes is a sign of bad or “lazy” writing, because even in a show as plot heavy as Arcane, allowing moments of reprieve actually allows your audience to process what’s being shown onscreen rather than having a million things thrown at you or having crucial character arcs condensed into music video montages — lemme also just pour one out for specifically my girl Vi real quick because she was done so dirty. Now, you can argue that we simply just didn’t have enough time to explore little moments of R&R with the characters (ignoring the fact that s1 was also nine episodes here), that just points to the crucial problem of s2 in my opinion in that we simply had too much stuff going on. In a perfect world, to me anyway, we would’ve had at least another season or the finale releasing separately to the rest of the season as a two-hour special. Now, while I didn’t love s2 as much as s1, I also don’t think it’s unsalvageable or ruined the show either — in fact, there’s a lot of moments I love conceptually or standalone, and that’s why I think the choice to prioritize twists/big moments over smaller, more intimate character scenes hurts all the more, but with whatever ends up coming out of this universe in the future, we could wind up looking back at this season with a newfound appreciation. But if this is the last we see of Jayce or Viktor — if not forever, then for a while — I’m saddened that we weren’t allowed more time with them, especially since the core emotional moment of the finale hinges on them, and even on repeat rewatches, it’s very evident that the writing of Jayce especially in Act III is heavily reliant on the execution of the twist and even then, some of his lines are still confusing to me (“everything you did to these people you did alone” is one that confounds me, even from a place of rationalizing Jayce’s cryptic behaviour throughout the last two episodes as a front for toxic yaoi’s sake). All this, and I feel like letting Jayce have a moment to really reflect on him murdering Viktor and maybe even giving him a moment with Ximena was such obvious tearjerker material that I’m shocked the writers didn’t go for it.

Gah, my apologies for rambling so much in your inbox. I’m genuinely not trying to be a negative nancy like how a lot of people are about Arcane s2 and act pissy because the show didn’t go in the direction I wanted — writing is my passion and all of my critiques come from a place of genuine love. I guess I’m just throwing this out there for the sake of discussion? Do with this what you will, I’m just some random nobody on tumblr.com XD

Ooooh long ask - I love it! I will try to respond to everything you wrote, but incase I miss something - apologies in advance <3. Since you were mainly talking about S2, I have to give a little disclaimer: I am one of the few people on here (at least from what I've seen) who prefers S2. I wrote a #personal post about why that is; if you are interested you can find it on my profile, tagged as such. TL;DR I am NOT objective when it comes to S2 or S1. Because while the first season objectively has less flaws, there is one character that tainted my enjoyment of it on my first my first watch ( I am still debating on wether I want to get into that on my blog in a post someday, but that's neither here nor there). So yeah, just a heads up that I am somewhat biased :) I think one of the biggest missed opportunities in S2 imo was not making Jayce’s time in the ravine a bottle episode. As it stands in the show we got, I’m fine with it being where it is and think the “Jayce in dark souls” contrast with Ekko is hilarious, but i think even cramming it in like they did has led to some viewers downplaying his trauma and the vague timeline of events only being segmented a la montage didn’t really help — and that’s not even getting into Mage Viktor’s role in all of this

I adore bottle episodes. They are usually among my fave ones in any show, because the reduction of elements really allows good writing to shine. So, a Jayce ravine bottle episode? Hell yes. About downplaying Jayces trauma - I still think that episode actually helped make people like Jayce more than before (which is not saying that the montage etc was the best way to do it) - whereas most viewers on the first watch (including me) completely glossed over the fact that he tried to kill himself in S1 and failed to empathize or even understand Jayces character. I wrote a whole post about my thoughts on this - I hope it's okay if I just link it here. It’s obvious when some people haven’t rewatched the show in a while since it came out, since there appears to be this narrative being spread around now villainizing the Mage, saying that he had “doomed” Jayce either through giving him the mission in the first place, or is trying to paint Jayce as a victim who only stayed with Viktor out of “obligation” for his mission or even people saying that he had groomed Jayce (god, I hate how flippantly that word is used nowadays), and I think that’s because, even foregoing the twist at the end, we just didn’t spend enough time with the Mage to establish his motivations even for a bait and switch. All I can say is that arguments about who "doomed" who are really irrelevant when it comes to Jayvik. Idk if it's a perfect analogy, but it kind of reminds me of the trolley problem - there is no correct answer. Should mage!viktor have let Jayce die as a child? Should he not have saved him from suicide later? What about how Jayce doomed Viktor and by proxy himself, by ignoring his wishes? I think there are several valid positions for people to hold about this if they want to philosophize about what they would or would not have done in either one of those situations. BUT you shouldn't project it onto what the show explicitly depicted: Which is a) Jayce looking in awe when he sees mage!Viktor and neither scared nor angry b) Viktor giving Jayce the choice to leave and c) Jayce clearly stating that he wants to stay with him. Now, while I know not a lot of viewers like him, either because they think the twist is stupid or they’re just salty it wasn’t Ryze (as if shoving in more League lore would magically fix the writing or pacing problems this season lmao), I actually think Mage Viktor ended up being one of the more compelling characters for me to come out of s2 because of how little we know about him and how he got where he did, but obviously not everyone feels that way and while I’m not saying the writers should’ve showed their hands entirely — because, regardless of the logistics, that reveal still was one of the better executed imo and hits incredibly hard, especially on repeat viewings — I also just wanted to see more of this character and the eerie, desolate world that Jayce was thrusted into I am not sure if the majority of people really dislike the reveal, or if it is mainly those who are more involved in fandom or league lore. At least from people in my real life, I have never heard anyone disliking the reveal - quite the opposite.

Speaking for myself, I’ve never liked time travel plots — they often feel like a lazy cop-out. That said, this one actually works. It ties together several elements the show had already set up, and does so beautifully through a single character. Mage!Viktor’s message distills all the other storylines into one simple, tragically unsatisfying — yet strangely life-affirming — truth.

I also find it interesting that while he’s literally a mage, he actually aligns more with the archetype of the sage. To me, Commune Viktor embodies the show’s magician archetype (as hinted at in that one Sevika scene with the cards), whereas Mage!Viktor represents what happens when that magician archetype becomes too successful in reshaping the world. He even says as much himself. It really makes me think about how Viktor cycles through multiple archetypes over the course of the show — always orbiting around the hero archetype embodied by Jayce.

Sorry for suddenly going off about archetypes — but all this to say: Mage!Viktor doesn’t deserve the hate he gets, in my opinion. He’s a smart addition to the story and leaves a strong impact despite his limited screen time.

There’s also the meta reasoning that we, the audience, would simply have more time to sit on the information being processed before being thrown back into Plot Stuff™: I hate the internet for what it did to the word “filler” and acting like character focused episodes over strictly plot-driven episodes is a sign of bad or “lazy” writing, because even in a show as plot heavy as Arcane, allowing moments of reprieve actually allows your audience to process what’s being shown onscreen rather than having a million things thrown at you or having crucial character arcs condensed into music video montages — lemme also just pour one out for specifically my girl Vi real quick because she was done so dirty. Again, I am all with you on this. Filler episodes only feel like "filler" if the writing isn't on point - and because Arcane has skilled writers, I think their work gets better, the more it is allowed to breath. I am also glad you mentioned the music video montages. I am not a fan of those. They are very cool visually - hats off to the animators - but that's it imo. I also know they are a staple in the show, but I do wonder if both seasons wouldn't actually be better, if they replaced those with other scenes. As for Vi, all I am going to say is that I hardly remember her in S2. I think that speaks for itself. Now, you can argue that we simply just didn’t have enough time to explore little moments of R&R with the characters (ignoring the fact that s1 was also nine episodes here), that just points to the crucial problem of s2 in my opinion in that we simply had too much stuff going on. In a perfect world, to me anyway, we would’ve had at least another season or the finale releasing separately to the rest of the season as a two-hour special.

When I finished watching S1 and was talking to my friend who had recommended it to me, I remember saying how I felt like the show needed two more episodes (therefore making it 11) to really work for me. So S2 definitely could have done with at least 2 more, but realistically more like 3-4. I have to say though, while I was watching I didn't really feel like there was too much going on for me plot wise. I enjoy when the world opens up and the scale becomes bigger. The thing is though, back then I didn't know there wasn't going to be S3, so I got excited about the new things they threw in because I thought I was watching the midway point of the story - not its conclusion. So yes, agreed, in a perfect world Arcane would have had another season. I am still hopeful that they will give us what was missing in the spin offs (more on that in the next paragraph) Now, while I didn’t love s2 as much as s1, I also don’t think it’s unsalvageable or ruined the show either — in fact, there’s a lot of moments I love conceptually or standalone, and that’s why I think the choice to prioritize twists/big moments over smaller, more intimate character scenes hurts all the more, but with whatever ends up coming out of this universe in the future, we could wind up looking back at this season with a newfound appreciation.

This is exactly what I’m hoping for too — especially because I had a similar experience with Season 1 while watching Season 2. The added context really elevated a lot for me. And now, Season 2 itself has so much potential to be elevated by the spin-offs. I just hope they do it justice, because honestly, S2 is special to me — and I don’t want it to remain just potential. But if this is the last we see of Jayce or Viktor — if not forever, then for a while — I’m saddened that we weren’t allowed more time with them, especially since the core emotional moment of the finale hinges on them, and even on repeat rewatches, it’s very evident that the writing of Jayce especially in Act III is heavily reliant on the execution of the twist and even then, some of his lines are still confusing to me (“everything you did to these people you did alone” is one that confounds me, even from a place of rationalizing Jayce’s cryptic behaviour throughout the last two episodes as a front for toxic yaoi’s sake). All this, and I feel like letting Jayce have a moment to really reflect on him murdering Viktor and maybe even giving him a moment with Ximena was such obvious tearjerker material that I’m shocked the writers didn’t go for it.

I feel like I end most of my metas by pointing out how there is so much more to be done with Viktor and Jayce narratively. That being said, if I was a writer I'd be a lot more confident on what to do with Viktor after the finale, than with Jayce. Partly, because of what you described - some of the things he says and does in Act 3 are...strange.

You can tell the writers wanted two contradictory things at once: tell a story about how Jayce has come to understand Viktors importance to him and the lengths he is willing to go to for that but also not make it too obvious because then the finale will lose its emotional impact. I think the only way to rectify this, would be to show more of his conversation with Mage!Viktor and that somehow explaining why Jayce was putting up the "toxic yaoi" front as you accurately called it lol. They could still do this in flashbacks in a spin off - or maybe even in the form of dialogue with Viktor, who knows. Unfortunately, I see one more problem with Jayces as character (that I don't see with Viktor at all) - because they kind of wrote themselves into a corner when they completed his arc with "now, all i want is my partner back." and him succeeding in that. Because assuming that him and Viktor are not somehow separated after the finale (which I'd hate because their dynamic after what happened is too interesting to be left unexplored), he has everything he claims he wants. And if a character has everything he wants, what is there for him to do?

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy post canon fluffy cottage by the stream AUs, and I'd watch the shit out of that if it were a show, but realistically, it's not something that will ever get made. I am not saying it's impossible to create a new plot line for Jayce - because he is an interesting character - but it isn't the easiest thing to imagine because of how murky they kept his inner workings in S2. Gah, my apologies for rambling so much in your inbox. I’m genuinely not trying to be a negative nancy like how a lot of people are about Arcane s2 and act pissy because the show didn’t go in the direction I wanted — writing is my passion and all of my critiques come from a place of genuine love. I guess I’m just throwing this out there for the sake of discussion? Do with this what you will, I’m just some random nobody on tumblr.com XD Please don't apologize - yapping about Arcane and Jayvik and writing is all I want to do on the internet these days, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so. I really really enjoyed your ask. You also don't come across as a negative nancy at all - as I said, everything you pointed out makes absolute sense to me as a S2 stan lol. I can see that it is flawed and I am happy to discuss those flaws, while loving it regardless. So yeah, thank you and if anyone else has anything they want me to ramble about - ask away!

[hmslusitania]

I have a half-formed thought about art and science in Arcane and how usually in our culture they’re pitted as opposites, and instead in Arcane the four main scientist types are all artists as well to a degree.

Like Ekko goes out and paints an entire memorial wall. Jinx does graffiti and stylised tags on everything she builds. Jayce’s work could all be significantly more utilitarian than it is and instead he overdesigns his stuff and that’s not even accounting for the sketches and blueprints he does. Viktor falls into the sketches and blueprints too, but also whatever else was going on with the commune the design of it all was gorgeous art nouveau stuff. Hell, even Heimerdinger becomes a musician.

Idk. I don’t know if I have a point, I just think it’s neat

[edible-emerald]

Minute Heimerdinger

Clown Silco

Mane Sevika

Mapicc Jace

Spoke Victor

Rek Sky

Ash Mel

Wembu Vi

I will not elaborate

WAITTT ASH AS MEL MIIIGHT BE A COOK I DIDNT CONSIDER THAT… Mel and Ambessa have been some of the harder ones to figure out so I’ll think on this…

Spoke and Mane I was already considering for that I’m ngl but Mapicc as Jayce is a new idea I originally was planning Mapicc as Skye and Parrot as Jayce but I’ll think abt this too,..

Spoke being Viktor actually fits so well because he has a huge army (the players who joined in the wormhole) that was created using magic no one fully understands (wormhole) that he used to access the spirit realm (I dotn have anything for this but it’s thematically similar to his skin so I just think it’d be neat)

Clown as Silco is a new idea actually, I haven’t thought much on who Silco would be surprisingly but I hadn’t considered Clown it would actually fit well

ngl I don’t think Wemmbu fits as Vi because yes him and Kab did team for a bit but she said she hated teaming with him and I don’t think he’d fit they haven’t interacted very much in general. Also Vi is very obviously in a relationship in arcane and I want to try and preserve that relationship and Wemmbu isn’t comfortable with shipping to my knowledge, if it isn’t possible to keep the relationship romantic while respecting boundaries I’ll prioritize boundaries and Wemmbu could be a contender to be Vi but for now I don’t think it works well (Jayvik is excluded from this because they’re the only ones who aren’t explicitly in love even though it’s implied, also the creators confirmed it isn’t canon unfortunately but that’s why I’m not applying it to Jayce and Viktor)

Minute heimerdinger COULD work but my original plan was actually Derap as heimerdinger. Actually that would make Mapicc as Jayce fit a lot better too just realizing but Derap as heimerdinger would fit well imo because the main person he interacts with besides Jayce is Ekko and I’ve already said Zam is Ekko and sunkissed… makes me ILL

my original plan for Clown and Ash was actually to have CLOWN be Vi and BRANZY be Caitlyn, and for Ash and Squiddo to be Mylo and Claggor (Clagger? Claggor? Hwo is it spelled) so the fuck you found family would be the original four that were with Vander (speaking of which I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out who Vander would be) I wonder who Maddie would be then hmm

I also am considering Ash as Viktor and Squiddo as Jayce but idk if that would work let me know if you guys think it’s cool

ultimately the only locked in details of the au are that Jinx is Kab and Ekko is Zam, everything else can and may be changed in the future so GIVE ME YOUR SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!

[bearloonz]

ARCANNNNEEE YEAAAHHH!!! Who is/are your favourite characters? what did you like most about them?

im exploding and dying. Im blowing up.

-Mentioned it before but Ekko absolutely topped my fav character list this season. Poor kid’s got the world on his shoulders and has so much to learn, but hes also accomplished so many things. He deserves a fucking break. I need to rewatch the show to pull more thoughts together about him but i Like him a lot :—]

-I am not immune to viktor’s weird boy charms. Im a shill and a normie and also hes really charming in the first season. The second season he comes in tandem with Jayce and their storyline proceeded to make me want to eat rocks so yeah.

-On my first s1 rewatch + watching s2, i found myself really endeared to Jayce. I never really understood the hype around hating this guy, aside from it being because Viktor is a fan favorite and he routinely fucks up his relationship with Viktor which is a big no i guess. I like when a character has visible flaws. Like thats a part of his story. It’s good to me. And his shows of emotion and vulnerability just really make him hit something in me. I dont often see male characters who have the emotional moments that he does, i like it. It charms me, it warms me up to him.

-Heimerdinger goes on my list for ultimately just being a funny guy. As the show goes on i also enjoy poking at the ideas behind his mentor figure title and how he affects the people around him, but really the narrative doesnt often take him seriously enough for me to feel as comfortable getting invested in him emotionally like other characters. Hes kind of there to be silly first, and that works for me. I like him! Would’ve loved to see a little more from him earnestly, but i understand why it wasn’t there.

-Jinx is definitely on the list. I have thoughts about her shift from season 1 to season 2, but again that’s something i need a rewatch for to form my opinions. She’s just a harrowing character, it’s miserable to see her get back up and get shot down over and over and over again. She’s been through so much. Half the fucking show is built on that, so like, obviously. But man. I like her.

Mylo, Claggor, and Singed all go in a little category of “I just think theyre neat :)” as well.

[absoluteham]

Arcane Season 2, Part Two

Okay, the theme I think they're exploring is how one person can have disproportional influence, whether they're trying to or not, especially when they're stepping into a hole left by someone or something else. The universe hates a vacuum, but what (who) steps into that vacuum can change everything.

Vi and Powder were probably on track to be normal kids in Zaun, but when the Enforcers kill their parents, Vander steps in. His influence is a good one, but different, and they grow up good but maybe a little more rough.

Powder is abandoned by Vi at the same time they lost Vander. Silco steps into that gap, and under his influence, Powder's worst impulses are fed and she becomes a monster, Jynx. When Silco is dead and she ends up with Isha in that emptiness, it brings out more of her goodness and playfulness, and she softens again.

As for Vi, she never lets one person fully fill the emptiness that Vander left. The first person she really lets get close to her is Caitlyn. Under Cait's influence, she becomes (reluctantly) more willing to go along with the establishment, to try to trust the Council and Enforcers. But then when Caitlyn betrays her, she spirals and self-destructs. Until Jynx returns and tries to reassemble their little family, and you see Vi start to hope for that again, and start to forgive.

As for Cait, in the vacuum left after her mother's death, her first instinct is to pull Vi closer (especially since her father refuses to step up and fill that hole). But the main thing left in that hole is anger and grief, and when Ambessa steps in, she presses Cait to feed that anger. Cait also has most of Piltover calling Zaun animals, saying they must be dealt with, and to focus on the Greater Good, the ends justifying the means. In the vacuum left by her betrayal of Vi and the loss of her mother, that influence gets to her. But into that vacuum of Vi, she also lets in Maddie, who appeals to her better angels.

In the absence of Viktor, Jayce flails, burying himself in work and withdrawing from everyone around him, working himself into a froth. He stabilizes a little under Heimerdinger and Ekko's influence, but when he learns the truth(?) about Hextech and what he has done by unleashing it, it pushes him over the edge. Without Viktor and Heimerdinger to talk things through, he jumps to all his own conclusions and goes rogue.

And it happens on a larger scale, too. In the absence of a figurehead like Vander, Zaun ends up putting Jynx on a pedestal, because she's the only one to successfully fight back. Others cling to Viktor, who seems like he must have all the answers. We'll see in the next few episodes if Sevika succeeds in stepping into a unifying role or if Zaun is too divided. Similarly, above ground, in the vacuum left by the council, Piltover looks to Caitlyn-- because of her family name and her job, not because they know anything about her.

But influence isn't absolute. Despite Vander's influence, Vi abandoned Powder in her moment of grief and pain-- even if she regrets it within minutes. Cait does the same to Vi years later, in her own moment of grief and pain, but despite Ambessa's influence, she doesn't completely lose sight of her desire for good and justice. (We know from the dialogue that she personally forbade the use of Stillwater's worst cells-- her own baby prison reform.) And when Vi gives her the opportunity, she still knows what's right.

It's just example after example of someone filling an absence with their own influence, sometimes intentionally, often unintentionally. And even outside of "good" or "bad" influences, at the very least, the influences feed different parts of their existing nature. Despite Silco's influence, Jynx still has a soft side, and when Isha feeds that instead of her resentment, it changes her. Cait's grief and anger, and her fear of Jynx, when fed by Ambessa, blind her to her desire for actual justice and peace.

I just think it's neat, okay?

[anamateurhumanbeing]

Finished Act 1 of Arcane's second season. It was alright. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but It definitely felt weaker than any of season 1's acts. But it was still overall good, and there's definitely a lot of interesting setup that has me excited for the rest of the season.

Spoiler-filled ramble below.

Caitlyn is becoming a full on villain. Using the vent systems designed by her mother to help the people of Zaun, as a weapon against them in order to avenge her, cold. And then there's the scene where she attempts to shoot Jinx despite Vi and Isha being in the way. Sure she wasn't trying to hurt either of them, but the fact is she still took that risk. And of course the ending, with her becoming the general under Ambessa's thumb. I love all of it. I thought Caitlyn was a pretty good character in Season 1, but her villain arc is far more interesting than anything she did last season, and the best part of this one. I hope she gets worse.

Ambessa's a pretty good character too. I called her staging the attack on the memorial, and I do love how ruthless she is but I am glad there is some nuance to her, as she clearly does miss her son and care for Mel. I can't wait to see more of her with Caitlyn.

What they're doing with Jinx is interesting. I like that she and Sevika have become allies, finding common ground after Silco's death. Her becoming a more heroic figure to the people of Zaun is a pretty interesting direction to take her after last season was more about her becoming a villain, especially as a parallel to Caitlyn becoming darker in her pursuit of Jinx. I need to see them have a 1 v 1 fight. I must confess though, I do not care much for the kid, and I think her jumping inbetween Vi and Jinx during their otherwise really great fight did not feel earned because of how little Jinx and Isha actually bonded. I am looking forward to seeing more though, and I hope Jinx is simultaneously a better and worse role-model than Silco. Oh yeah, the Silco water scene was beautiful.

All the stuff about Jayce, Ekko, Heimerdinger, Mel, and Viktor was all neat, but all of that was more setup, so I don't have many strong feelings on any of them. Nothing bad, but nothing great so far either. It was fun seeing Jayce and Ekko interact though.

And then there's Vi. This is where the act lost me. Going in I was already wondering how they were going to make Vi becoming an enforcer feel natural. The answer? They didn't! Vi changing her mind and becoming an enforcer felt like it happened way to soon. But I would have been fine with it if it was just Vi becoming an enforcer, it's her going along with Caitlyn's plan to literally gas the lanes that I cannot buy. I said I like Caitlyn going down that path, but Vi following her down it really doesn't make sense. Perhaps it would have made more sense if we actually saw how Vi felt about becoming an enforcer and attacking her home, but despite showing Vi's turmoil before becoming an enforcer, they forget to show her turmoil after becoming an enforcer.

I thought her relationship with Jinx was good. I was a little iffy on how easily she was ready to say she had no sister at first, but as the act progressed, it felt more like she was trying to convince herself more than she was trying to convince Jinx or Caitlyn. Speaking of Vi and Caitlyn, will I get crucified if I say I don't like how CaitVi was handled? And I thought Vi becoming an enforcer was rushed, it felt like they just brushed by an entire seasons worth of development and drama with their relationship. I didn't really care about them falling out, because they literally became a couple at the start of the same episode. It is a real shame, because Vi was one of my favourite characters last season. While I certainly think they can still get Vi's character back on track, I am not sure how they'll make Caitlyn and Vi get back together, or if I even still want that.

Aside from maybe a few clumsy lines of dialogue, Vi really was the only weak link in the act, everything else was great. The music, the animation, the art, the fights, all just as good as Season 1, cannot wait for next week to get more.

[l1ve-l4ugh-lov3craft]

agh alphard as vander is a FANTASTIC idea!! i was stuck on who to put him as!!

with voldy as silco, i was honestly thinking you could even do a bit of canon divergence and rather than jinx’s loyalty to silco because he took her in, have regulus be loyal to voldemort not necessarily because he took him in, but more cos it was a way for him to get close enough to kill him?? idk if that makes sense?? but it could be a thing?? i dunno i feel like i have some sort of vision for that and idk how to explain it

okay okay okay proposition! snape as sevika, BUT THEN Peter as Marcus 👆and we do just a bit more canon divergence somehow that allows peter to have known james (even tho he’s the ekko character) cos i feel like the whole thing with him setting up and orchestrating the barricade, especially with it being the place that ekko and jinx fight and where ekko (so by extention james) almost dies?? it’s not ideal but it could be an option?? and then cos Minerva or Poppy (Imm leaning towards Minnie lol) would have known peter it would still hurt on that level?? idk let me know what you think

okay and here’s my essay on Ekko as James (though you’re SO right jayce is so james-coded). So ofc, that scene was a big factor when i was thinking about cos can you imagine??? just a lil canon divergence to have james and sirius have their iconic friendship, but after it all goes to hell in episode 1, they're split up??? and then the reunion they would have later in that scene??? DX Iconic. I would LIVE for it. And then also I think it would be really interesting to work with James and Regulus' dynamic as Ekko and Jinx equivalents?? Cos honestly, ideally I'd have James be Caitlin cos of the way Jinx got so jealous of her the same way reg did of james when he adn sirius became friends? But wolfstar is more important i'm sorry XD Unfortunately, I may have to forsake platonic moonwater in this au which is DEVASTATING cos I live for platonic moonwater QwQ Anyway and then i just think James fits a bit better into the scenes with Ekko than he does into Jayce's (even though it WOULD be a very neat take on james as a character to put him as jayce)

ANYWAY Lily as Jayce and Pandora as Victor??? PLEASE I'm obsessed that was SUCH a good ideaaaa!!! (and I'm a fan of jayvic AND pandalilly so things all work out whaaaaaaattt who said that) And I'm also a HUGE fan of putting Mary as Mel! Like YES! I love anything that encourages putting mary macDonald in more of a plot-heavy role in a story i love that woman (and the marylily content?? what???)

and of COURSE slughorn has to be heimerdinger oh my GOSH perfect idea 10/10, no notes!!

ADDITIONALLY to what you added, I also had the idea last night, if James is Ekko, to have the Firelights be called the Marauders? Kinda as homage to the marauders themselves?? Which is also why I'd love to have james and peter have more interaction even if he's in marcus' role, cos then once James takes Sirius and Remus to their hideout, all the four og marauders would be together and idk i just like it :)

hopefully this all made sense lollll XD

shoutout to @taleofapart-timepoet for this post about a marauders arcane au cos I’ve not been able to stop thinking about it all evening

I’d love to see a sort of looser based, slightly canon adjacent au?? a bit in the way crimson rivers was done where the big canon things do happen and there’s parallels, but creative liberites are taken

HEAR ME OUT

Vi - Sirius (obviously)

Jinx/Powder - Regulus (again, obvs)

Silco - Voldemort??? Maybe?? But I’m thinkin more in a crimson rivers tom riddle sort of way

Caitlin - Remus, of course

Ekko - Hear me out??? James?? and his and sirius’ dynamic is one that’s a bit different than vi and ekko’s in canon in a way i know but don’t feel like typing out so ask me if you want me to elaborate

Not sure who to do for the rest but SOMEONE PLEASE TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS I HAVE SO MANY IDEAS

[im-the-king-of-the-ocean]

Speaking of an Arcane RWBY AU, I read your post and then started thinking of Weiss as Caitlyn, and then decided that Winter works better in her role (joining Atlas Academy vs becoming an enforcer), but no matter what neither of them have Caitlyn's sniper abilities and moreover Caitlyn's upbringing was more loving than the Schnee siblings (plus, like, where to put Whitley and the other Schnee sister?)

And then my next thought was about how maybe, just scrap the Schnee siblings entirely and make Blake into Caitlyn (has a gun and is basically Menagerie's princess) but Menagerie is much more of an analog to Zaun than Piltover.

Also, on an entirely different note: consider, if you go with Ekko!Ruby, the connection that Penny has w/fireflies and the connection that Ekko has with firelight bugs (which are even a very similar if not the same shade of green)

Oooh I like all that!

tho I've been thinking more along the lines of putting Penny in Caitlyn's role, given the loving upbringing that's still in an unjust system.

That and I love the idea of Enforcer!Penny, practically being raised/heavily influenced that this is how she can do good/protect people.

(Relatedly, this could make Pietro a Heimerdinger figure (i.e. the scientist on the council, who's respected, but also not attached to all the dealings the others have - the concert were Heimerdinger was listening to music while Jayce and Mel made all sorts of deals comes to mind - oooh also a neat tie-in where after his ousting, Heimerdinger does go to Zaun and meets Ekko).)

I’ve become increasingly attached to Ekko!Ruby the more I think about it.  Though putting her in Jinx’s role would be fun, I feel like she fits better with Ekko’s reaction to the trauma of losing his loved ones.  Just, a core tenant of Ruby’s being is being a simpler, more honest soul who wants to do good in the world (arguably bc of the pain she’s already felt).

Also, this could lead to a situation where Penny goes investigating (like Caitlyn), but comes across the Firelights and Ruby, and maybe there’s a secret part of her origins Pietro kept from her (to “keep her safe”) that connects her to the Firelights.  (I honestly haven’t thought this out too much, but I love the imagery of Penny going searching and finding answers about herself by finding Ruby surrounded by glowing green bugs).

(have I slowly been steering this au concept toward Nuts and Dolts bc my interest in the ship has been massively reinvigorated? perhaps)

anyways I’ve been tooling around with the idea of Salem in Silco’s role, with Hazel acting as Sevika.  That, and instead of having “Shimmer”, they have “Grimm”, which still basically beastifies people, but more similarly to the Hound.  Only certain people can endure using it (like SEWs), which gives them motivation to grab Ruby, which is the whole backstory bit.

Salem has Cinder orchestrate Yang getting framed for a crime, to get her out of the way and thrown in prison (also a nod to what happened in her pvp vs Mercury).

(I’m not sure where Taiyang or Qrow would be during this - maybe away on a mission? - anyways, just Not There)

but instead of being captured, Ruby manages to escape, and starts the Firelights to fight back against Salem’s takeover of Zaun.

On an unrelated note, I kinda like the idea of Blake in Mel’s role, coming from high status in a foreign place (except Menagerie isn’t as ruthless as Mel’s home, which I cannot for the life of me remember the name of).  Or Piltover natives have come up with all sorts of negative stereotypes that aren’t true to believe about Menagerie, and she’s doing her best to fight back against them.)