#MBMBaM critical

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

McElroy brothers this is an intervention. Last time I made a post about this I didn’t maintag it but this time I shall.

Saying ‘the thing about working with your brothers for this many years is that you can grow to hate them on a molecular level’ about your fellow co-host is comedy poison. Especially on the episode where you’re fundraising for the year. It's not fun to listen to if you're not having fun making it, and given the number of jokes in recent episodes about ending the podcast or just hating having to make it, it really doesn't seem like y'all are having fun anymore.

If your relationships with each other as friends and not just family and co-workers are struggling to the point that you can’t remember to ‘yes, and’ each other when trying to make a comedy podcast, you need to take a hiatus and re-learn how to appreciate each other away from the internet. If you're that burned out that you don't enjoy making the show, you probably need to take a break.

The podcast is actively unpleasant to listen to when half of every episode is Griffin and sometimes Justin berating Travis for everything he does, I assume because they’re bitter and blame Travis for their decline in popularity and whatever has been going on with the equally bad vibes in taz for several campaigns.

My dudes you were always going to decline in popularity at some point, that happens to literally everyone who makes a content career on the internet. You fostered a highly parasocial bond with your fandom, and highly parasocial fan communities tend towards toxicity and fans feeling easily betrayed when they realize the people they idolize are flawed humans. So it goes. Maybe try and set healthier boundaries and expectations with listeners in future. But every celebrity, minor or major, is going to peak and lose some of their fame at some point.

You can work through those bad feelings with a therapist and maybe work with a group therapist on strengthening and healing your familial bonds, but all that conflict resolution needs to happen offline cause you can’t keep being dicks to your family members and calling it comedy.

I promise you if you stop making MBMBaM and TAZ for a year or two and then come back to it and make a big deal about your return a significant portion of your remaining audience will be excited to have you back, maybe even more than are currently listening to your stuff cause the vibes are off.

Post reruns a couple times a month on the feed, keep posting compilation clips on YouTube and tiktok and stuff like that in the meantime, and make some solo content and maybe occasional McElroy family clubhouse episodes for a while. But y’all have got to take a break at some point because your flagship podcast is basically unlistenable rn. I keep starting it every week for the new episode and turning it off partway through because y’all are just being mean to each other.

[notaplaceofhonour]

hey jumblr, anyone know of good DND Actual Play podcasts that are safe & Normal About Jews/Israel™️ (i.e. not DropOut-affiliated)?

my favorite for a long time has been The Adventure Zone, which I mention both because I’ll probably like anything with a similar vibe, and because I’m worried about not being able to enjoy listening to the McElroys in the near future (for the record: the McElroys haven’t done anything egregious themselves to my knowledge, but there have been a few flags of a vague red or yellow-ish tint that have me at least concerned: the entire family has pretty close ties with DropOut, specifically Brennan, who supports the hate groups INN & JVP; Griffin has also been fundraising for PCRF—which afaik isn’t directly funneling money to Hamas, but has partnered with orgs like HLF, IRPAL, & Taawon that do, and their leadership has a history of antisemitism—all of which is very indirect & not necessarily something I can assume they fully understand/know about, etc. so I’m not like saying they themselves are doing anything actively antisemitic, just that they’re not as many degrees of separation as I’d like from people who are & that worries me).

any recommendations welcome. basically just looking for an Actual Play podcast with a fun, jokey vibe, with players/DM who aren’t JVPniks or fundraising for NGOs that are 2 degrees of separation from Hamas. flexible on the vibe, inflexible about being normal about Jews

[theaologies]

I just shoved this in a cheap frame back in the day and need to replace it but I’m still so into the matting I did for it

[variksel]

nah its weird being in your early 20s, being surrounded by friends going thru some sort of early adulthood crises and "holy fuck im never gonna amount to anything im already 21, im never gonna be making money im never gonna be famous" -thoughts when like. all of the media you consume is by people who are well into their 30s and often, 40s

like i feel like im so chill about this partly because i feel like if this random mid class guy who got famous for the first time off of a podcast he started at 35 after working restaurant and retail jobs ........ anythin can happen u can do new shit after 27 girl

[north-west-75]

Occasionally I take a peak at DnD Podcast Criticism Subreddits out of morbid curiousity and by god you will find people out there who hate entertainers with every fiber of their being. If they're not playing exactly one-to-one with DnD rules and if they even ATTEMPT comedy or drama dudes online in these miserable little circles shake with rage. I totally think criticism towards a lot of DnD shows is fair, it's great to want the shows you listen to to improve, but good lord

If you talk like this about DnD shows online I know in my heart of hearts playing a tabletop game with you would be misery incarnate

[fipindustries]

ill say, for as cringe as hey might sometimes be, i prefer a thousand billion hundred times comedians that come from spaces like mbmbam and dropout and critical rol and smosh than the putrid clique of the joe rogan podcast and similar places, if nothing else by sheer dint of the fact the first group comes across as simply better people.

and to go even further than that, these last few years have left me with a pretty strong dislike for the generation X in general. the type of guys who were in their twenties and thirties watching south park or avenue Q or george carlin and learned all the wrong lessons from them. they just seem to operate on thought terminating cliches like "im not racist! i hate everyone equally! hyuck hyuck!" or "the truth is always in the middle" or "when you think about it nothing really matters, we are just stupid monkeys in a tiny rock in the middle of space" and other stupid bits of "common wisdom". they are all so cynical, so brain rotted by nihilism, they seem to reject the idea that one should seriously worry about anything, that to care and act in accordance is to be a loser and a busybody and that you fell for some kind of grift. and they think that makes them sound enlightened. and of course you can never criticize them on any of it because their answer is "i dont know anything, man, im just an idiot saying whatever comes to my mind". i despise it with every fiber of my being. this embrace of stupidity and meaninglessness as a way to evade the responsability of actually thinking seriously about stuff, to take ideas seriously.

what's worse is that is always so fake and disengenious because the second you talk about taking away their marihuana or telling them about how there are slurs that not appropiate to say, suddenly they become the most principled defenders of the inalienable human rights based on the self evident moral truth that they should be free to do whatever they fuck they want without any criticism.

is sheer unexamined immaturity.

[breadedsinner]

Every now and then I have to remind you all how much I hate The Name of the Wind. And it's extremely rare that I feel the need to use the word "hate" in regards to a story. I think it's compounded by the fact that by all accounts I SHOULD have liked it. The author was on MBMBAM and Critical Role. I only heard good things about his prose.

The whole thing confounds me.

[haveyouheardthispodcast]

i think tumblr has only listened to nightvale, the magnus archives, and maybe critical role LOL

well we have also listened to mbmbam! but you make a good point, so I might change the results to a percentage of yes votes instead. More positive.

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

After the last two episodes of their podcast I kind of wish I could stage an intervention for the mcelboys to ask them to just take the hiatus they clearly need to take because oh my god. The number of jokes they were making about ending the podcast the last half hour or so of the session for the naming of the year.

Half the holiday special was just Griffin being a dick to Travis.

They need to take a step back because you can’t make comedy by saying no to your improv team most of the time.

[soph-the-podcast-nerd]

Okay, so the first two screenshots are my current top listens, and the third picture is "shows that I've finished/aren't doing new episodes" (The pictures seemed easier than typing everything out 😣)

Skyjacks was my #1 podcast this year, and Midst was my favorite new one I started this year!!!

Lmk if you want me to just pick a few, or explain any of them!

Oh man thanks for all the recommendations!!!

podcasts in the photos (names - creators):

Campaign: Skyjacks and Skyjoust!! - James D'Amato

The Pod Has Been Cast - The Pod Has Been Cast

Worlds Beyond Number - Fortunate Horse, Worlds Beyond Number

Welcome to Night Vale and Alice Isn’t Dead - Night Vale Presents ( i totally love wtnv! Haven’t listened to anything else by Night Vale Presents yet, tho)

Skyjacks: Courier's Call - Paulomi Pratap, Drew Mierzejewski, Aly Grauer + more

Not Another D&D Podcast and Rotating Heros - Headgum

Hello From The Magic Tavern - Arnie Niekamp (I actually did get a decent amount through this one, but it wasn’t quite my thing. Still recommend for people who like fantasy, comedy, and shows like mbmbam)

Transplanar RPG - Transplanar RPG

Midst - Critical Role

Lateral with Tom Scott - Tom Scott and David Bodycombe

Strangers on a Bench - Tom Rosenthal

Yes, Also - Yes, Also

Midnight Facts for Insomniacs - Shane Rogers

(and i think i see my brother, my brother, and me hidden under that last one although idk if that’s a recommendation… fun fact coincidentally my brother my brother and me + TAZ was the first podcast my brother shared with me hes a fan of the mcelroys)

ars PARADOXICA - ars PARADOXICA

The Bright Sessions - Atypical Artists

The Strange Case of Starship Iris - Jessica Best (Procyon Podcast Network) (also definitely definitely definitely recommend this one I love it!)

Wolf 359 - Kinda Evil Genius Productions, LLC (this one too, one of my favorites of all time)

Mission To Zyxx - Mission To Zyxx

The Blood Crow Stories - Ellie Collins and Scott Moore

Girl In Space - Sarah Rhea Werner

[notaplaceofhonour]

Resisting the urge to “Why Is No One Talking About This” this, but outside of replies to my own posts [Exhibit A, Exhibit B] about it, I have seen maybe one or two people even mention the radicalization of DropOut, and seen zero people mention the fact that the platform is a hub for multiple “Media Empires”, from the Green Brothers, to The McElroys, to Critical Role.

I often feel, when I talk about anything to do with Antizionism, like I did in 2019-2020 when I was saying “hey this QAnon stuff is pretty concerning”, and most of the people I mentioned it to were like “uh, yeah, okay… sure…” until January 6th, 2021.

And I’m aware this specific case of DropOut is probably not what most people, even those who are worried about I/P being used to radicalize people, are immediately concerned about. After all, a bunch of improv nerds playing tabletop games & panel game shows (however bigoted or misguided) are hardly Hamas fighters. DropOut is just one relatively small link in the chainmail, so to speak.

But damn if it isn’t a significant link if it can connect maybe 80% of the media I (and many of my friends) cared most about in the last half decade within 2 degrees of separation.

I’m obviously not afraid of Brennan Lee Mulligan walking into a synagogue with a bomb strapped to his chest or leading a brutal militia in some kind of wannabe Bolshevik Revolution. What I am worried about is him (and Sam Reich, and Ally, and others in the cast, and associated guests from Hank Green and Matt Mercer) putting a fun, friendly face to the pipeline that pushes people in the orbit of people who want to convince them that maybe, just maybe, it wouldn’t be so bad if some other people did. I’m concerned about DropOut pushing JVP/SJP-style propaganda (both in employees’ social media & in campaigns), pushing people towards JVP & associated organizations, which themselves push people towards terror groups like the PFLP.

I’m concerned about The McElroys fundraising for PCRF, an organization with concerning ties, run by openly antisemitic people, that pushes antisemitic narratives. I’m concerned about the Green Brothers fundraising for UNRWA, which Hamas is heavily embedded in, and whose employees participated in the October 7th attacks. I’m concerned about the broader pattern of radicalization that this represents.

I’m concerned about queer nerdy neurodivergent people like me who grew up on Vlogbrothers or John Green novels or DFTBA records, who go to VidCon, who watch Polygon & Game Changers & SciShow & Brian David Gilbert & GeoTheBio & Worthikids & ContraPoints & Tom Cardy & follow fandom artists & cosplayers & listen to D20 & The Adventure Zone & MBMBAM & Sawbones & Delete This! & Chappell Roan & You’re Wrong About (or G-d forbid QAA & Behind the Bastards) & Conspirituality & Knowledge Fight & whoever else and are now surrounded by a media ecosystem in which many of its members are slowly (or perhaps in some cases not so slowly) tilting its floor into a funnel towards extreme, violent organizations.

I’m concerned about the people who aren’t connected to or knowledgeable enough about I/P to recognize that’s what’s happened. I’m concerned about the people who are and now find themselves losing comfort media, losing safety & feeling seen in their fandoms, losing community.

Idk if people know. Idk if they want to. Idk if anyone outside of like a handful of (let’s be real, mostly only Jewish) former DropOut fans are ever going to care.

The fact that a significant amount of influential & prolific people in the internet media landscape—several of whom have been so influential & prolific that their ventures have been described in media profiles as media “Empires”—are at most 2 degrees of separation from individuals actively promoting the manifesto of a terrorist organization involved in the October 7th massacre is truly, mind-bogglingly concerning.

[creacherkeeper]

lukaaa it's been a while <3 for the ask meme, 30. what’s one thing that never fails to make you happy/happier?

omg clara hi <3333

when im truly in a rancid mood i go to youtube and watch mbmbam animatics and usually raw fettuccine or criticism from your dad will Fix Me but if its bad enough i will watch final pam and then that does the trick :P

[half-man-half-lime]

I can't find that post about how committees as a process kill creativity by criticizing to death anything new and different so only the dullest stuff makes it, but it describes perfectly why the MBMBaM Year Naming episodes are always so disappointing

[utilitycaster]

I’m curious how Sawbones is very very indirectly the reason you’re watching Candela Obscura! Is there a story there?

Sawbones was my first McElroy content and led me later to mbmbam which is what ultimately got me to say "ok sure I'll check out People Playing D&D" with TAZ which, after I really enjoyed it, led me to actually listen to my sister's recommendation to watch Critical Role

[realdoggyhours]

MBMBAM is one of the few podcasts I don’t ever listen for criticism for anymore 9/10 time it’s usually someone treating Travis as an evil manipulator because he has NPD and (shocker!) it sometimes causes him to act out in a way people don’t like.

I don’t even care about the McElroy brothers.

[peachesinjeans]

i barely listen to mbmbam anymore and tuned in for this years name and its like. man this isnt even funny and you cant complain about it without half the damn tumblr fandom getting on your ass abt being negative or "taking things too seriously" so thank you for being. not like that

I find it important to be able to criticize the things you love. I still have a lot of love for the McElroy brothers and the things they make. But it’s not perfect. And it’s okay to say when you dislike something, as long as you’re not cruel about it. And I think that’s what’s missing from a lot of fandom discussions. It’s okay to like something, and be critical of it at the same time. I think willfully ignoring things you dislike about the things you like makes you a half-hearted fan of them. That’s just how I see things :3

Thanks for the ask!