#Think heartstopper levels of explicitness

[boschlowtxt]

Chapter 1

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Happy pride month! I know its a time to celebrate queer relationships, but I wanted to take this opportunity to portray my aromantic/asexual headcanons for Boscha and Willow respectively, and their complicated relationships with their orientations :D

Boscha's side will be easier since its discussing topics on the romantic spectrum. But I do want to give a heads up that Willow's side will be a bit more on the *ahem* "spicy side" and potentially uncomfortable since it will be discussing sexual attraction.

And just to clarify before I receive any questions, yes, Boschlow will be a thing in this comic! Except--just a bit more complicated.

Feel free to ask any questions!

[olderthannetfic]

To the anon writing about how antis are hypocrites because they're Hannigram fans and antis at the same time: I've said it once and I'll say it again: THEY'RE WEIRD ABOUT SEX SPECIFICALLY.

Fandom is full of people with deeply weird relationships to sex, whether it's because they're young or from conservative backgrounds or queer/kinky and haven't processed it yet or any combination of the above (NB none of this should be equated to being ace: most ace people I know are normal about sex, just not personally interested in having it. Those who aren't belong to the above categories).

This is why places like Tumblr love their horrifying/edgy sex metaphors: "sex is when I put my finger into your wound" etc. It to the point where it's become trite and overdone, but these same people will balk at bog common fetishes like CNC and the like.

It's the actual act of sex, as something with genitalia involved, that they feel the need to sanitize and hide. But they also want to interact with it, because it's an unresolved thing in their heads, so they do it through three levels of metaphors while attacking anyone who does it openly. You can either like twee stuff like Heartstopper OR you can like edgy stuff like Hannibal or Hazbin Hotel where the characters never do have the fucked up sex the show is teasing at, but NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET BECAUSE THAT IS DANGEROUS AND PREDATORY.

This gets exacerbated when women are involved, because many people have very personal hangups about the way women are treated in society, and they think that making this everyone else"s problem is somehow helping fight The Patriarchy.

Look at anti discourse and 95% of it can be described as "weird about sex and/or women", with the pedophilia accusations basically used as a fig leaf over one of the two (children are vulnerable, women are vulnerable, young women=children, etc.)

They don't care about stuff like gore or physical violence or explicit untriggerwarned descriptions or parental abuse, because it's almost always about sex and/or women.

--

[narliearchive]

Desperate by Idril [E]

It’s not really jealousy, he thinks. He isn’t jealous that Ben got there first. It’s nothing like that. It’s the fact that Ben didn’t care, doesn’t care, about all the precious things Charlie gave him. Ben took and took from Charlie and gave nothing in return. The thought of him using Charlie, especially like that. It makes him sick. It makes him possessive. It makes him want to fall to his knees and offer himself completely. It makes him take off his jumper and hand it to Charlie just to see his smile. An exploration of how Nick and Charlie's relationship might have changed if they explored sex earlier and deeper.

future mother-in-law things by elyseregan [M]

Maybe he’d witness her finally reach level 532 on Candy Crush and celebrate with her over a chocolate digestive. Maybe he’d carry on dipping biscuits into cups of tea and seeing whose disintegrated first for the next year. Maybe he’d share sly smiles and winks at Nick’s expense with the woman sporting a brown bob into the summer months, possibly even beyond. A look into Charlie & Sarah's relationship over the years.

It's All or Nothing by tinyarmedtrex [E]

"Married at first sight is the first social experiment of its kind, using in depth research and expert opinions to match together eight singles. Those lucky participants will meet and get married on the spot. They then have eight weeks until decision day where they'll make the biggest decision of their lives- will they stay married or get a divorce?" When Nick heard that the infamous show was having its first queer season, he hadn't planned to apply. But after giving it time he decided to give it a shot. After all, he hadn't had any luck on his own, so what was the harm? Then he found out that he was one of the eight chosen to be on the show. Which mean that in a few short days he was going to be married to someone he would meet at the altar. The wedding was only the first step. Never could Nick have predicted all the highs and lows that would come from being married to a stranger. And, after eight short weeks both have a decision to make. Do they want to stay married or get a divorce?

Lavender Fields by scienceisrealyo [E]

31 year old Nick Nelson retired from professional rugby and is giving Sarah Nelson a well-deserved year off from running Lavender Fields Bed and Breakfast. And Nick’s doing fine, thank you very much. Until the guest name C. Spring changes everything. Note: 1-31 are the original story (Nick's point of view). Chapters 32 - 60 are from when Charlie bullied me into providing his perspective, too.

Narlie Waves by waveofyou [E]

A Heartstopper California AU where Nick (31) and the HS crew we know and love live in SoCal. Charlie (29) leaves his London office to work in San Diego for a year. Nellie makes a new puppy bestie. Nick is adorable teaching little first graders. Charlie looks hot playing the drums. Nick looks hot surfing. They…ahem…enjoy Nick’s pool…and shower…and balcony. The boys weirdly get snowed in at one point. In Southern California, go figure. Nick helps Charlie see that he's deserving of big, loud love from a certain golden retriever person. Charlie helps Nick to trust that his love is not conditional, that he's safe to fully express himself. A leaves falling, flower petals swirling story of queer love with a spectacular ocean view 🍂🌊🍂 ⚠️ This is NOT a slow burn. They feel the spark, follow it and make fire Any explicit sections are denoted with “🍂🔥🍂” Any triggering flashback, panic attack or detailed eating disorder moments with “🍂⚠️🍂” …so they can be skipped and the story still enjoyed- I’ve written it so no major plot is lost by skipping these sections 🫶🏻 Alternates between Charlie and Nick POV ♥️

[bucksboobs]

I mean I think it makes sense for heartstopper to not have anything explicit going on as one of them only Just realised he liked boys and the other one has an ED, they do talk about it pretty directly in the show so its addressed not totally unrealistically. But as for fan response yeah there was a weird thing amongst… a certain subset of fans of making a joke/meme out of a single throwaway line in the books where they mention having sex, maybe the accessibility draws that type of crowd but I don’t think that’s the fault of the show/comic itself 😅 esp as things get fairly explicit in the comics later as they get older

I have complicated feelings about Heartstopper. I actually like it in theory as Baby’s First Gay Show (I would have rather had it then Queer as Folk when I was 14) and in theory it’s a uncomplicated cozy, warm, fuzzy story about two young boys falling in love. It’s the definition of Toothrotting Fluff

However in practice, it feels alienating to me as a gay man when the only two things gay boys are allowed to be in the show are Pure UwU Tumblr Softboy who Speaks in Therapy-ese and Pure Evil Rapist who is brought back into the show after the point the comic counterpart had been written out just to be a punching bag for the Valiant Bisexual Girl to yell at and out in front of their classmates and then Get Dunked On by his ex when he tries to apologize and then have The Symbolism Doodles symbolically reject him from the LGBT community and then get written out of the story.

Combined with the complete stripping away of any mention of sexuality outside of exactly One Scene where they discuss the gay equivalent of Waiting Until Marriage, it does come off as incredibly puritan even if it’s justified in-story by Charlie’s ED and I do actually attribute that in part to the source material. Alice Oseman is by their own admission, pretty uncomfortable with the idea of sex and it shows in the way Nick and Charlie are written. As Trixie and Katya put it: they seem like they just want to hold hands at the post office. The show to this point has been very very uncomfortable with the idea that these two boys might be attracted to each other in a not-purely-romantic way, and when the only other gay character that did show some level of sexual attraction that maybe wasn’t purely romantic is Ben Fucking Hope, the implication seems to be that there’s a Right and Wrong way to be Gay in the eyes of the story.

It also doesn’t escape my notice that Love, Victor petered away into obscurity but Heartstopper is seen as the pinnacle of Gay Representation to a lot of people. Love, Victor was unafraid of teenage boys of all sexualities being sexual beings and in fact reckons with it in ways that were VERY close to my actual experiences, like everything with Victor and his mom coming to terms with him having a romantic and sexual relationship with his boyfriend. Disney shafted LV a lot but Netflix has this Pure Sanitized Risk-free Romance on the front page every time a new season comes out and that also just stings. There’s the feeling that maybe if LV had been more chaste, more palatable, it would have actually been a major success.

I don’t want to sound too dismissive of what HS is for a lot of people but to me there’s just something that makes me feel like it was never for me and that could be because I’m too old for it, but it sometimes feels like it wasn’t for me because it’s not for gay men at all.

[fuckyeahgoodomensfanfic]

Good Omens Fic Rec: Mon Horrible Chéri

 English Teacher Aziraphale gets roped into the sixth form Paris field trip, not realizing his worst enemy Science Teacher Crowley is the accompanying chaperone. Are seven days of forced proximity really enough to undo a truly vitriolic relationship? Or, let's be real: How quickly does it take them to fall head over heels for each other?

Length: 39,952 words

AO3 Rating: Explicit/ Spice Level 🔥🔥

Best for: Pick-me-up, Safe in Public, Fluff, Human AU, Romance, Enemies to Lovers

Triggers: None

Read it here, fic by ghostrat

*Minor Spoilers* It may be lazy to call this one the Heartstopper Paris Trip Good Omens AU, because this fic is much more than just that, but also that's very much the vibe here! I loved this one and it's such a fun heartwarming story, I think this needs to be the newest fandom classic. Plus it features incredible art throughout the story by the author themselves. It elevates this story to a whole new level. Truly I am always blown away by the talent all you authors have, but to make the art for it as well?? Incredible work and dedication to the fandom. Where DO you guys get the energy for all this??

As you'll see from the summary, Crowley and Aziraphale are chaperoning the school Paris trip! The dialogue in this is great, Aziraphale and Crowley already come with oodles of chemistry but this story dials it even further. Love this Aziraphale who is kind of aloof or awkward with flirting, right up until he drops the most devastatingly flirtatious lines imaginable. Have fun with the cigarette scene is all I'm sayin. Crowley is a sweetie here, love his restless nature and his natural way with the kids. This story will have you kicking your feet and giggling like it's middle school again. It alights the inner romantic in me. It's for the girl who didn't get to read this kind of story back then, the girl who just needed some soft and sweet things in her life. Mostly safe in public, the explicit chapter is towards the end and isn't graphic. Je l'ai aimé!

Read it here, fic by ghostrat

[peculiarsushi]

Heartstopper isn't meant to be realistic in every aspect

Hear me out. I'm not gonna be putting words into Alice or other people involved in the show but I personally think that Heartstopper being palatable to the general public is one of it's strengths.

If you're on social media, especially twitter (no i will not be calling it x) you would have seen hit tweets of people, mostly the younger generation, use Heartstopper as a medium of choice to show to their parents or guardians when they want to come out to them. And with the amount of explicit queer shows there are out there Heartstopper is doing a good job of actually opening up the gap of generations who are actually willing to listen and learn.

But nobody is saying that Heartstopper is the superior show or that it's the best show out there so it frustrates me when fans of other shows try to pit queer shows against each other when literally we can have room for so much more. We deserve a rainbow genres that can speak to us in a personal level.

Some will argue that teens not having sex is so unrealistic when in fact it's realistic for most of us. But also Heartstopper isn't even shying away from the topic of sex because it's actually trying to teach the younger queers to be able to communicate their needs and talk about consent and so much more. Heartstopper is a show that doesn't aim to be realistic but aims to make a much healthy environment to have conversations on topics like queer sex or eating disorders for the generations of queers to come.

It's meant to show us that queer happiness can be realistic for us when we have a show like Heartstopper to look up to. And i'm not saying it's the perfect show because frankly there won't be a show like that when we all have different experiences and different backgrounds. If it's not perfect for you, you don't have to hate on it because it may be perfect for someone out there and it might have helped them survive another day.

Empathy is only mastered by intelligent people. Be kind.

[ao3feed-narlie]

is this too far for close friends?

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/AErisLx by PoeticAntics221 Nick and Charlie are childhood friends who do everything together and now that they're horny teen boys that includes watching porn and enjoying a cheeky wank together. Only problem is Nick is "straight" and thinks Charlie is, too. When Charlie tearfully comes out as gay to him, Nick is super supportive... He loves Charlie so much and promises that this new information won't change their friendship at all... except that it totally does, in ways neither of them could have imagined. 🩷💜💙 Spoiler Note about the Underage Warning Nick and Charlie are the same age as Season 1 canon in this. They do not have sex in this. However, they do engage in a lot of masturbation while in each other's presence and Nick has sexual thoughts and dreams about Charlie. They also watch pornography together. All of these events are described in explicit detail. So if that's outside of your comfort level, feel free to give this one a pass. Words: 3448, Chapters: 1/6, Language: English Fandoms: Heartstopper (TV), Heartstopper (Webcomic) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Underage Categories: M/M Characters: Nicholas "Nick" Nelson, Charles "Charlie" Spring (Heartstopper), Sarah Nelson, Tao Xu Relationships: Nicholas "Nick" Nelson/Charles "Charlie" Spring Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Childhood Friends, Friends to Lovers, Childhood Friends to Lovers, bisexual awakening, wanking, Mutual Masturbation, Oblivious Nicholas "Nick" Nelson, POV Nicholas "Nick" Nelson, Porn Watching, Horny Teenagers, Fluff, Smut, Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending, Idiots in Love read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/AErisLx

[sadieshavingsex]

I just watched heartstopper at the suggestion of a friend. I don’t typically talk about like present day fandoms on this blog but I think it was a pretty good (if occasionally surface level for some of the more minor characters) representation of a lot of kinds of trauma (familial, relational, etc), relationship dynamics, and relationship difficulty. For reference, I think I’m straight(?). Still, the parallels between the characters and my life really struck me. The experience of having a partner who doesn’t want to share your relationship with the world, for any reason (some seemingly more valid than others). The conversation about waiting to have sex (probably deserves its own post but it hit home a lot and my thoughts haven’t crystallized yet).

And of course the ever more blatant realization that queer trauma has a LOT of intersections with purity culture/church trauma. I don’t want to say that they’re the same because they’re definitely not, but they echo back to each other in a lot of ways. Like, Nick coming out to his mom transported me back to these moments in the car on the way to school where I would spend the whole ride there working myself up to ask my mom a sexual question or admit/confess some sexual concern or thought I’d been having. The amount of times as a teen/tween that I wrote her a note or sent her a text or tried to “confess” face to face the fact that I was a sexual person, that I did read explicit content, that I kissed a guy, that he touched me, that I was so bad and so rotten and whatever else she might think of me… the way that I truly believed masturbation and reading ~sexy fanfiction~ was something only I “struggled with” and that it would be a miracle if anybody could ever love me after “what I’d done”!! I know it’s certainly not the same but I see an echo of the repression of self and the fear of being seen as a completely different person and totally rejected on the basis of this one thing that makes up only a fraction of your personality, your preferences, your interests, your life. In fact, the feeling that this secret double life is your entire personality and the fear that you deserve to be rejected, that you are bad, that you are inherently wrong for who you are or what you like. For your sexuality (either who you like or simply the fact that you have a sexuality at all). It just really felt relatable to me despite the fact that I don’t consider myself part of the LGBT+ community and it was really interesting for me to have a window into these terrifying, sometimes traumatic interactions that I realized have echoes or mirrors in my own life. Like I just feel a lot of solidarity in the way that these “good old Christian values” or whatever have stolen so much happy life and peaceful relationship from us, even if not in exactly the same way.

I have no idea if what I’m writing is making sense but. Heartstopper I love you for your representation of all these difficult things!!!! I know it’s not about me but this show made me feel seen and helped me empathize differently with what my friends and others I know have gone/are going through!!

[halliescomut]

Look I understand why you thought what Alice said in what seems to be a very old screenshot is problematic and I feel like I'm not gonna change your mind anyway but here's to trying.

Alice is aroace. They also never expected to influence people as much as they do now, they were just creating things they can relate to and ended up gaining a lot of following and success naturally, so they just weren't careful with what they used to say and weren't expecting people to screenshot old stuff and spread them around and believe they were twisting their mustache back then planning on world domination and on making everyone sexless lmao. They were literally just some guy on good old Tumblr doing things and saying stuff lol just like you.

People are allowed to not be interested in sex just like people are allowed to be interested in sex, and what they said is not completely untrue. Yes there is bl that isn't fetishizing and eroticizing and yes it's getting better, but they didn't say all of them are, they said they tend to be. And it was true. Doesn't mean they think they're better for doing something that pleased them more than erotic bl, it doesn't mean they don't want erotic things to exist, it doesn't even mean they don't enjoy stuff that has sex in it (they have recommended plenty of content that is very sexual in the past), just that they weren't interested in it and didn't want to create stuff like that, that's all.

And even then, Nick and Charlie do have sex. This was in her novels and it'll be in Heartstopper, it's just not explicit, because that's not the point of the story. It's not a story to make people horny, it's a story about learning and growing up and being yourself. It's really nothing to do with purity. It just resonates with people who aren't overly sexual because we just barely have queer stories that aren't overly sexual.

Saying they're racist is also a really huge stretch given they're obviously giving space for black and asian characters in their story. It's not gonna be as well done as if it was created by an asian or black person but they're clearly not racist.

Again, I do under where you're coming from, if they DID think they were better and wanted all shows to be sexless I would even agree with you, it's just not what they meant at all.

I'm answering this because I appreciate you being open-minded towards me as well. The screenshot is from around 2017, which while that is quite a while ago, they were still around 22 at the time, which I think does show that they deserve some grace in having the opinion they did/possibly still do. It's not necessarily my issue that they felt this way at that time, my concern comes from them not really addressing the statement in any way since then. Now, at 28 years old, if they felt differently, why not clarify? Especially considering that this is a topic that gets brought up regularly. Whether she chooses to double down on this opinion or express how her thoughts have changed in the last six years, I do feel that they are certainly aware that this is a concern people have.

I am also Ace, for clarity. I understand that having pieces of media based around romantic relationships SO heavily focus on the physical/sexual aspect is not something people want all the time. I'm not arguing that it's a necessary thing in all media, just that it shouldn't be demeaned, as it is a part of romantic relationships for a lot of people. I'm incredibly happy to see representation that I relate to in Loveless, it's a beautiful story and I think Alice is a really good author. I also believe that it's incredibly important to have queer media that can be rated PG or PG-13 available so that kids have an opportunity to see queer stories. Having that type of media exist means that any kid can enjoy these stories and develop empathy for queer people, as well as potentially explore their own queerness at an age appropriate level.

I 100% agree that HS doesn't need explicit sex, I state that in my original post. It would be out of place for multiple reasons in the universe that Alice created. I would like to say though, that explicit scenes in media of any type are not always included with the purpose of making someone horny. Can they be? Sure. But they can also be included as a way of further exploring the personal connection between characters, to add detail to the growth of their relationship, depth to their characters. In visual media specifically, it's important to SHOW growth as opposed to just saying it's happening. Written work gives us a lot more insight into characters thoughts and feelings, but that's limited in visual media, and seeing how characters interact in intimate scenes is a way to show internal feelings.

As for the last point about racism, I do not think Alice is overtly racist. I appreciate the diversity of her characters, but the inclusion of diverse characters doesn't automatically indicate a lack of racist ideology. JKR is a prime example. Do I think they were being intentionally racist? No. But subconscious racism and biases will ALWAYS be present in white people. It's literally something you have to actively work against. And while they may not have seen their comments then as being potentially harmful or racist, that doesn't mean they are not. Your intentions do not dictate how your words are received or the level of harm they can have. Making blanket statements as a white person about an entire genre that is created and developed by non-white people stereotypes that media and is racist. While Alice at that time may never have imagined the reach her words would have, they still said them, and they have the ability now, with an even greater scope of influence, to express any potential changes in their thoughts regarding things like BL.

[blackholeunderyourbed]

So I already made a long post dissecting the refreshing way Heartstopper treats self-discovery, being closeted, and coming out, and this has a level of overlap with that content, but. I also really love how the show treats consent. Two notable instances off the top of my head:

The first time Charlie and Nick kiss, Charlie explicitly asks to kiss him

After Nick gives Charlie his birthday present, Charlie remarks how much he wants to kiss him but doesn’t make a move because they’re in public and Nick is in the closet, Nick says okay, Charlie assures him he doesn’t have to and makes sure he’s sure, and then they kiss

The big thing is normalizing explicit consent even for kissing and verbalizing wants, particularly early on in the relationship, but it’s not just that that strikes me. As in the second instance, it’s also how careful Charlie is to make sure he’s not overstepping any difference in boundaries based on context, a la making sure he’s not publicly doing anything Nick wouldn’t be okay with due to being in the closet, and really in how he approaches Nick being in the closet in general. Consent is a factor when Charlie never tells even his friends about the relationship until Nick does so, or how Charlie makes sure Nick comes out because he wants to and not because he feels like he needs to. There are other small moments too, like how when Nick is checking in on Charlie after Ben assaults him, he gives Charlie space to talk but also emphasizes he doesn’t have to.

These are just the examples I can think of from memory, but how Heartstopper addresses consent isn’t only in the physical affection, which is the main lens through which consent tends to be framed, but also the emotional and social boundaries. How Nick and Charlie treat each other is all around such a strong example of mutual respect for each other’s feelings and boundaries and it makes me so incredibly happy

[the-sappho-of-lesbos]

1//About gay women wanting to be gay men: It's jealousy over gay men not facing the same degree of sexualization by the opposite sex. Gay women are either portrayed as feminine women who sleep with each other for male benefit (wether explicit or implicit), androgynous sexless beings with no sex drive at all, or agressive masculine women. Gay men have tons of stereotypes attatched to them, but in terms of deep stories where they're people, and struggle in a real and interesting way with sexuality

Hello! Thank you so much for giving your opinion and perspective on this whole thing. I’m sorry it took me a while to reply, I kept thinking oh how to because I wanted to give you a good response since you took so much time and energy to write this all out. But I hit a point where I thought I don’t think I’ll be able to. This is just such a big thing and I’m sure there are so many layers as to why lesbians feel the way they do and what representation means to different people. I guess my main thought is just I don’t know.

I fully respect and acknowledge your opinion on this matter. And you certainly aren’t alone in those feelings. I see a lot of lesbians saying very similar things. I guess my main hang up on the whole thing is I just feel like I have no authority on how gay men perceive the media they are given. Or if they have better rep or not. Because I’m not a gay man. I have no idea what it’s like to be a gay man and I don’t really want to go around telling gay men their experiences in representation are better then mine when I’ve never lived their experiences, you know? I feel like I can talk about my experiences and my representation but in general I just don’t like speaking for people or groups of people I don’t have a lived experience of. Personally I feel like it’s just a disservice to everyone.

But I fully acknowledge why so many lesbians feel this way and I don’t think it’s wrong or you are a bad person or anything so please don’t take it that way 💕💕

I guess what I’ve noticed for myself at least is I’m a lot more forgiving with gay male media then I am lesbian media. Which is a me problem for sure. I just feel extra picky when it comes to lesbian media. Because with gay male media there is a level of detachment I can have with it - in the sense that it can be purely fictional. What I mean by that is I don’t feel AS much as a need to live emotionally vicariously through it as I do with lesbian media. I can take the little bits I relate to with gay male media and put aside the others and not be too bothered either way. The same can’t be said for me with lesbian fiction. I have to really connect or be attracted to or relate to the characters involved otherwise I disengage.

And I think there are two sides to that. One : I don’t relate to a lot of “modern” lesbian tropes or ideas. And two: the ones I do relate to are just not really shown in popular lesbian media.

I know he’s bisexual and not a lesbian (obviously lol) but because of all the storm that’s happening around Heartstopper recently I just want to use Nick Nelson’s character as an example of what I mean. His attitude, his clothes, his interest etc etc, seem in my opinion, also very common with lesbians in a similar age bracket (16-25). But lesbians aren’t depicted that way in media. They are like super feminine and stick it to the man, or more masculine but done in a way where it’s like have you ever spoke to a masculine woman before because it doesn’t seem like it. Where I believe lots of lesbians fall into that neutral/soft masculine/ tomboy way of looking. Like if you had Nick and Charlie and literally made absolutely nothing different about them other then made them women (ie keep the interests, keep the personality, keep the fashion, keep the hair style) I feel like you would have a SUPER accurate depiction of a lesbian and bisexual woman couple. Like genuinely that seems so much more realistic and relatable to me. But that’s not the way lesbians are depicted very often.

I’ve seen people saying if you like heartstopper watch Crush on Hulu , because it’s the sapphic version of it, and I haven’t seen it so much point could be way off, but from what I have seen on the trailer that’s just way off. Like I’m absolutely genuinely happy for the people who are excited to watch that show and feel seen in it, but I saw it and I was just upset lol. It didn’t feel like me. It didn’t feel like a good lesbian representation.

I think for me that’s part of the reason I enjoy less well known or indie or not-coming-out-in-recent-years lesbian novels. There is just something different about them that makes me feel more comfortable and seen. I’m still picky and I’m still a lot more lenient with gay male fiction. But it feels more like coming home to me. Because I just can’t with so many of the things coming out about lesbians. I don’t relate to it. I don’t see myself in it. I don’t see other lesbians in it.

But then I have the weird mix of seeing myself more in gay male fiction but then obviously feeling very disconnected and stuff with IRL gay male communities and groups. Because like duh I’m not a gay man lol.

This is probably going to sound weird and I don’t know how to phrase it properly but I’ll use my example with my ex.

Through most of high school if I was reading something gay it was about gay men. Very few of the gay things I consumed were about lesbians. I could just never properly connect with them. I felt good and seen and fuzzy and warm and happy reading gay male stuff. BUT when I got with my ex girlfriend for the first time, it felt the same as that!! I’m not conflating butch with male here but I mean is she was a person in the same way male characters are treated as people, so I saw that with her. And you know there is a probably a whole explanation of sexism and homophobia that add to those feelings. And I can’t even really explain it.

Honestly I think I’m going to have to stop here because I’m not even making sense to myself anymore and I feel like I’m jumping all over the place lol.

But thank you again!! I appreciate your perspective and definitely agree with parts of it! It’s a really interesting discussion I just wish I was smarter so I could give you a better response lol.

But I hope you have a wonderful day!

[impostoradult]

i really don't want to argue with anyone about this topic because i get why people have a lot of variable feelings about the issue, and i get that it is kind of politically complicated

BUT

I will just say -- personally -- it makes me uncomfortable how quick people are to be like "It's so nice that Heartstopper is not TOO sexual." I get that explicit or very strongly sexual content is not everyone's cup of tea, and it's fine to feel that way. totally acceptable.

but i also feel like there is this creeping brand of broad sexual conservatism among very young LGBTQ folks, and i find that trend very concerning (for multiple reasons). (I'm not talking about asexual politics, btw, I'm talking about discourse around queer people who are explicitly NOT asexual or on that spectrum)

this is also SUPER complicated when it comes to something like Heartstopper because historically media has had a tendency to either hyper-sexualized queer men OR completely desexualize them. both tropes exist and both are problematic. and obviously the 'correct' amount of sexual is not a simple or agreed-upon thing.

but it is strange (and yes even worrying) to me that young queer folks seem much more concerned about hyper sexualization than they are about desexualization. of the two there is a lot more sensitivity about hyper sexualization and i dunno...that seems a bit backwards to me.

it just feels like it is catering (ultimately) to a conservative mentality of:

sex is BY DEFAULT dangerous/ suspect/ gratuitous/ negative/ bad/ etc.

and i just think conceding to that premise is SO misguided. particularly given it a big part of how queerness came to BE stigmatized in the first place. the whole attitude that sex needs to be hyper justified to exist & be socially acceptable is a big part of the logic that feeds into homophobia. like a BIG part of it. the fact that queer people are now trying to be part of the 'sex's existence & percolation through culture should be highly restricted, monitored, sanitized, made ultra palatable, etc.' feels....very politically unself-aware.

again, its fine to have a personal taste for stuff that isn't sexually explicit. totally fine to feel that way on a personal level. but we shouldn't be treating things that lack explicit sex as ELEVATED in any way either. they're not. nothing is inherently more laudable or superior or virtuous because it lacks explicit sex. that's not a thing.

nothing is laudable BECAUSE it lacks sex. nothing. that's not a thing.

[ao3feed-narlie]

god knows i've missed this feeling

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/QBviSnE by monegasque With Sai’s help, the plan has been laid out perfectly. Charlie dutifully follows the directions Sai’s given him, out of Leeds Station, onto the bus, and straight to Sai’s flat. The October air is thin and breezy as it pushes Charlie through the winding streets of this city—Nick’s city—closer and closer to his boyfriend. ---- Charlie surprises Nick at his first-ever uni rugby match. Then, they celebrate together. This is Nick's first-ever uni level rugby match, and my first-ever Heartstopper fic. I've had brainrot for these two for far too long now, and I had to do something with it. Please be gentle x Words: 8773, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Series: Part 1 of real love, baby Fandoms: Heartstopper (TV), Heartstopper (Webcomic) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: M/M Characters: Nicholas "Nick" Nelson, Charles "Charlie" Spring (Heartstopper), Sai Verma Relationships: Nicholas "Nick" Nelson/Charles "Charlie" Spring Additional Tags: Aged-Up Character(s), Uni AU, Alternate Universe - College/University, Future Fic, Fluff, Smut, just two kids in love really, nick is in his first year at leeds, charlie is in his final year at truham, They're Both Over 18, don't ask me how charlie convinced jane to let him take this trip I didn't think that far, a moment for sai verma please read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/QBviSnE